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* Beamer support in Org-mode
@ 2009-11-26 11:17 Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-26 11:26 ` Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs
                   ` (7 more replies)
  0 siblings, 8 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-11-26 11:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing-list-org-mode list

Hi,

this is in response to the discussions about beamer
export from Org-mode.  Yesterday I had a long train ride
during which I scanned the beamer documentation (smoking
hot stuff!).  Then I made the attached draft
for Org-mode support, strongly based on the stuff
Eric Fraga has put together recently.  What is described
below sort-of works in some experimental code here, but before
I polish I would like comments on this outline.

NOW is the time to chime in.

Thanks!

- Carsten

                               beamerdoc
                               =========

Author: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
Date: 2009-11-26 12:08:45 CET



Table of Contents
=================
1 Organization
     1.1 Sections
     1.2 Frames
     1.3 Columns
     1.4 A column
     1.5 Block-like environments
     1.6 Overlay/action tag and environment options
     1.7 Overlay/action in list environment
     1.8 Embedded LaTeX
     1.9 Example
2 org-beamer-mode
     2.1 Fast tag selection for beamer environments
     2.2 Special font-locking of beamer tags


1 Organization
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1.1 Sections
=============

By default, level one headlines become sections in the beamer
document.  You can configure the variable org-beamer-frame-level
to change this.  Setting it to three will make level 2 headlines
become subsections.  For the rest of this document, I will assume
that this variable has its default value 2.

1.2 Frames
===========
Level 2 headline (or the level configured in
org-beamer-frame-level) become frames.  The headline text become
the frame title, but if no headline text is given, the frame gets
no title.  If the frame title contains the string "\\", the line
will be split at that location, and the second half become the
frame /subtitle/.

1.3 Columns
============
Headlines one below frames (level 3 by default) can be used start
columns on a frame.  The presence of such a headline without a
beamer tag (see below) will create the columns environment.  The
text in the headline is ignored.  It is helpful to write
"columns" in this headline anyway.

1.4 A column
=============
Headlines below a columns environment (level 4 by default) open a
column.  The text in the headline should be a number smaller than
one and will be used to define the column width.

1.5 Block-like environments
============================
Any headline can become a block-like environment by tagging it
with a beamer tag.  For examples, `:B_block:' will trigger the
creation of a block environment, while `:B_theorem:' will trigger
the creation of a theorem environment.  When it makes sense, the
headline text is used in an appropriate argument of the
environment, if that does not make sense, it is ignored.

1.6 Overlay/action tag and environment options
===============================================
Any headline can contain three types of cookies

`<...>': The overlay/action setting for the environment
`[<...>]': The default overlay/action specification for the
      content of the environment, which can be overwritten locally
      by each content element.
`[...]': Optional argument(s) for the environment

These can be given in arbitrary order freely in the headline.
Org-mode will fish them out and insert them in the appropriate
locations in the \begin statement of the environment.

Having these cookies plainly in the headline reduces the
usability of the document as a normal document.  I have been
thinking to move them into comments or properties, but I think
this is, in the end, less convenient.  I people want to export
these in other ways as well, we can write a function to clean
up....

1.7 Overlay/action in list environment
=======================================
For plain list environments (ordered, unordered, and description
lists) you can start each item optionally with an overlay
specification `<...>'.  If any item in the list contains a
default specification `[<...>]', this will be moved into the
begin statement of the itemize/enumerate/description environment,
to provide a default setting for the list items.

1.8 Embedded LaTeX
===================
As is normal for Org-mode, you can embed LaTeX commands into the
text, and they will be transferred literally into the exported
document.  In particular, you can also embed beamer-specific
commands.

1.9 Example
============
Here is a (still very incomplete) example Org document that is
intended for beamer export.

   #+LaTeX_CLASS: beamer
   #+TITLE: Example Presentation
   #+AUTHOR: Carsten Dominik

   * This is the first structural section
   ** Frame 1 \\ with a subtitle
   *** columns will be used
   **** 0.3
   ***** Thanks   :B_block:
         Thanks to Eric Fraga for the first viable beamer setup in Org
   ***** Here we continue after the block :B_normal:
         using a "normal" environment that helps to keep the structure
         after a block
   **** 0.7
   ** Frame 2 \\ where we will not use columns
   ***  
Request 
                                                          :B_block:
       Please test this stuff!

2 org-beamer-mode
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Org-mode defines a minor mode org-beamer-mode.  The mode is
turned on automatically when the export class as specified
in #+LaTeX_CLASS is "beamer".  Currently foreseen features are
listed below, more could be added where it makes sense.

2.1 Fast tag selection for beamer environments
===============================================
The command `C-c C-b' will offer fast selection of the various
tags that trigger specific beamer environments for a headline

2.2 Special font-locking of beamer tags
========================================
The special tags are highlighted by a special font



- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 11:17 Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-11-26 11:26 ` Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs
  2009-11-26 14:01 ` Sébastien Vauban
                   ` (6 subsequent siblings)
  7 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs @ 2009-11-26 11:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Hiho!

Sounds very reasonable!

Carsten Dominik schrieb:
> this is in response to the discussions about beamer
> export from Org-mode.  Yesterday I had a long train ride
> during which I scanned the beamer documentation (smoking
> hot stuff!).  Then I made the attached draft
> for Org-mode support, strongly based on the stuff
> Eric Fraga has put together recently.  What is described
> below sort-of works in some experimental code here, but before
> I polish I would like comments on this outline.
> 
> NOW is the time to chime in.

-- 
        Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs <friedel@nomaden.org>
                             TauPan on Ircnet and Freenode ;)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 11:17 Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-26 11:26 ` Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs
@ 2009-11-26 14:01 ` Sébastien Vauban
  2009-11-26 14:54   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-26 16:30 ` Nick Dokos
                   ` (5 subsequent siblings)
  7 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-11-26 14:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ

Hi Carsten,

Carsten Dominik wrote:
> [...] before I polish I would like comments on this outline.
>
> 1 Organization
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> 1.1 Sections
> =============
>
> By default, level one headlines become sections in the beamer
> document.  You can configure the variable org-beamer-frame-level
> to change this.  Setting it to three will make level 2 headlines
> become subsections.  For the rest of this document, I will assume
> that this variable has its default value 2.

I was used to use Org level-1 headlines as the frame title... but I've never
resolved how to put sections in my beamer slides (via Org) -- though this was
not that important yet for me, as I only converted slides made by others in
PowerPoint, and they don't have such sections (and TOC visible in the left
bar).

Though, I find this way of structuring excellent: sound and logical. Plus it
is even customizable. What else would we want?  Nothing...


> 1.2 Frames
> ===========
> Level 2 headline (or the level configured in
> org-beamer-frame-level) become frames.  The headline text become
> the frame title, but if no headline text is given, the frame gets
> no title.  If the frame title contains the string "\\", the line
> will be split at that location, and the second half become the
> frame /subtitle/.

Excellent. Really.


> 1.3 Columns
> ============
> Headlines one below frames (level 3 by default) can be used start
> columns on a frame.  The presence of such a headline without a
> beamer tag (see below) will create the columns environment.  The
> text in the headline is ignored.  It is helpful to write
> "columns" in this headline anyway.

Would *I* be asked about my true opinion, I would really object against this
one... Except that you say "can be used". So, I guess we're not forced.

My main "problem" here is that I like the idea of being to convert back or
forward between Org documents and Org-beamer documents. Such headlines would
not mean anything for a "normal" Org document, as you already pointed out.

Now, if this is not the default interpretation, it could be OK for everybody.
We should show this in the example below:
- normal level-3 headlines (level-1 for Beamer) and
- "column" level-3 headlines.


> 1.4 A column
> =============
> Headlines below a columns environment (level 4 by default) open a
> column.  The text in the headline should be a number smaller than
> one and will be used to define the column width.
>
> 1.5 Block-like environments
> ============================
> Any headline can become a block-like environment by tagging it
> with a beamer tag.  For examples, `:B_block:' will trigger the
> creation of a block environment, while `:B_theorem:' will trigger
> the creation of a theorem environment.  When it makes sense, the
> headline text is used in an appropriate argument of the
> environment, if that does not make sense, it is ignored.
>
> 1.6 Overlay/action tag and environment options
> ===============================================
> Any headline can contain three types of cookies
>
> `<...>': The overlay/action setting for the environment
> `[<...>]': The default overlay/action specification for the
>      content of the environment, which can be overwritten locally
>      by each content element.
> `[...]': Optional argument(s) for the environment
>
> These can be given in arbitrary order freely in the headline.
> Org-mode will fish them out and insert them in the appropriate
> locations in the \begin statement of the environment.

I never really used overlays yet (only to play with). Though, this seems nice
to me, even if...

> Having these cookies plainly in the headline reduces the
> usability of the document as a normal document.  I have been
> thinking to move them into comments or properties, but I think
> this is, in the end, less convenient.  I people want to export
> these in other ways as well, we can write a function to clean
> up....
>
> 1.7 Overlay/action in list environment
> =======================================
> For plain list environments (ordered, unordered, and description
> lists) you can start each item optionally with an overlay
> specification `<...>'.  If any item in the list contains a
> default specification `[<...>]', this will be moved into the
> begin statement of the itemize/enumerate/description environment,
> to provide a default setting for the list items.
>
> 1.8 Embedded LaTeX
> ===================
> As is normal for Org-mode, you can embed LaTeX commands into the
> text, and they will be transferred literally into the exported
> document.  In particular, you can also embed beamer-specific
> commands.
>
> 1.9 Example
> ============
> Here is a (still very incomplete) example Org document that is
> intended for beamer export.
>
>   #+LaTeX_CLASS: beamer
>   #+TITLE: Example Presentation
>   #+AUTHOR: Carsten Dominik
>
>   * This is the first structural section
>   ** Frame 1 \\ with a subtitle
>   *** columns will be used
>   **** 0.3
>   ***** Thanks   :B_block:
>         Thanks to Eric Fraga for the first viable beamer setup in Org
>   ***** Here we continue after the block :B_normal:
>         using a "normal" environment that helps to keep the structure
>         after a block
>   **** 0.7
>   ** Frame 2 \\ where we will not use columns
>   *** Request                                                        :B_block:
>       Please test this stuff!

I don't know if this can help you/us, but here is an example file I play with.

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
#+TITLE:     All-in file for testing Beamer with Org-mode
#+AUTHOR:    Seb Vauban
#+DATE:      2009-11-26
#+DESCRIPTION: 
#+KEYWORDS: 
#+LANGUAGE:  en
#+OPTIONS:   H:3 num:t toc:t \n:nil @:t ::t |:t ^:t -:t f:t *:t <:t

#+LaTeX_CLASS: beamer

#+MACRO: BEAMERMODE presentation
#+MACRO: BEAMERTHEME mc



* Development
** Context
*** Currently mainly manual
*** Error prone
*** High risks
** Requirements
*** Quality
**** Reduce risk
**** Reduce cost
**** Improve resilience
*** Flexibility
**** Enhance agility


* Architecture
** High-level view
   #+BEGIN_ditaa archi.png
   /-----------\      /--------------\      /--------------\      +----------+
   |cBLU       |      |cBLU          |      |cRED          |      |cBLU {s}  |
   |  Browser  | http |      UI      | gpb  | App Server   |      | Database |
   |           |------|              |------|              |------|          |
   \-----------/      \--------------/      \--------------/      +----------+
   #+END_ditaa


* Why?
** Reason 1
   Text explaining reason 1.
** Reason 2
   ... more explanations.
** Reason 3
   Blah, blah, blah.
** Reason 4
   Why not?


* What?
** First piece
*** Second piece
**** Third piece
** Fourth piece


* Rule language
** Horn clauses
** Allowed atoms
*** Class literals
*** Property literals
*** Builtin literals
#   #+LaTeX: \begin{lstlisting}
#   months_employed(?applicant, ?months) ~$\wedge$~
#   lessThan(?months, 3) ~$\wedge$~
#   assets(?applicant, ?assets) ~$\wedge$~
#   lessThan(?assets, 10000.0)
#   ~$\rightarrow$~ RejectedApplicant(?applicant)
#   #+LaTeX: \end{lstlisting}
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Don't know why, but the block code does not work anymore (just commented it).
Have not time to debug it now -- have to work for my clients. Will do later.

Our example should still include:
- C code (or other),
- table,
- big image,
- "wrapped" image,
- overlay image (appears/disappears with animations),
- TikZ picture,
- etc.

Maybe we can put such a "test" file in git, and enhance it as we go?


> 2 org-beamer-mode
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Org-mode defines a minor mode org-beamer-mode.  The mode is
> turned on automatically when the export class as specified
> in #+LaTeX_CLASS is "beamer".  Currently foreseen features are
> listed below, more could be added where it makes sense.
>
> 2.1 Fast tag selection for beamer environments
> ===============================================
> The command `C-c C-b' will offer fast selection of the various
> tags that trigger specific beamer environments for a headline
>
> 2.2 Special font-locking of beamer tags
> ========================================
> The special tags are highlighted by a special font

If I sum up, all of this seems to me:

    Ex-cel-lent!

My concern is just to ensure we can easily transform a normal Org document to
Beamer slides, or even have both versions in one file (handouts + notes).
Though, I must admit I have no example of the latter in Beamer either. Still a
young user of Beamer.

Best regards and many thanks for all, once again,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban



_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 11:17 Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-26 11:26 ` Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs
  2009-11-26 14:01 ` Sébastien Vauban
@ 2009-11-26 16:30 ` Nick Dokos
  2009-11-26 16:47   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-26 16:49 ` Dan Davison
                   ` (4 subsequent siblings)
  7 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2009-11-26 16:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:

> this is in response to the discussions about beamer
> export from Org-mode.  Yesterday I had a long train ride
> during which I scanned the beamer documentation (smoking
> hot stuff!).

Indeed - Till Tantau has a gift for documentation (among other
gifts). I'd recommend the documentation for pgf/tikz as well. Amazing.

> Then I made the attached draft
> for Org-mode support, strongly based on the stuff
> Eric Fraga has put together recently.  What is described
> below sort-of works in some experimental code here, but before
> I polish I would like comments on this outline.
> 
> NOW is the time to chime in.
> 

Two questions (with apologies in advance: I've been buried for a while
now, so I may have missed important details):

o How do I test? Is there a beamer template for org-export-latex-classes
  that implements this spec? I just did a git pull but did not see one.

o I didn't see anything about notes (in the beamer sense: speaker notes
  that don't appear in the slides, but do appear in the handout). For
  me, that is one of the most important aspects of beamer: the slides
  are there to remind me what to say (and hopefully to elicit the same
  memory in the audience, after the talk is finished). They provide the
  structure, but they are just a bunch of bones, a skeleton.  The notes
  are the meat of the presentation, so imho it would behoove Org to
  provide a mechanism for notes from the get-go.

Thanks,
Nick

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 16:30 ` Nick Dokos
@ 2009-11-26 16:47   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-26 18:29     ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-11-26 16:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: nicholas.dokos; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list


On Nov 26, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Nick Dokos wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> this is in response to the discussions about beamer
>> export from Org-mode.  Yesterday I had a long train ride
>> during which I scanned the beamer documentation (smoking
>> hot stuff!).
>
> Indeed - Till Tantau has a gift for documentation (among other
> gifts). I'd recommend the documentation for pgf/tikz as well. Amazing.

Don't tell me he wrote pgf/tikz as well???

Unbelievable.

>
>> Then I made the attached draft
>> for Org-mode support, strongly based on the stuff
>> Eric Fraga has put together recently.  What is described
>> below sort-of works in some experimental code here, but before
>> I polish I would like comments on this outline.
>>
>> NOW is the time to chime in.
>>
>
> Two questions (with apologies in advance: I've been buried for a while
> now, so I may have missed important details):
>
> o How do I test? Is there a beamer template for org-export-latex- 
> classes
>  that implements this spec? I just did a git pull but did not see one.

This is still crappy code on a local branch here, I want to figure out  
what
I/we actually want before publishing it.

>
> o I didn't see anything about notes (in the beamer sense: speaker  
> notes
>  that don't appear in the slides, but do appear in the handout). For
>  me, that is one of the most important aspects of beamer: the slides
>  are there to remind me what to say (and hopefully to elicit the same
>  memory in the audience, after the talk is finished). They provide the
>  structure, but they are just a bunch of bones, a skeleton.  The notes
>  are the meat of the presentation, so imho it would behoove Org to
>  provide a mechanism for notes from the get-go.

Yes, I did not look at notes yet.  Good point.

Any succestions?  Subtrees with a B_note tag?

First need to try how notes actually work....

- Carsten

>
> Thanks,
> Nick
>
>
>

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 11:17 Carsten Dominik
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-11-26 16:30 ` Nick Dokos
@ 2009-11-26 16:49 ` Dan Davison
  2009-11-26 16:57   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-27  8:01   ` Eric S Fraga
  2009-11-26 17:04 ` Thomas S. Dye
                   ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  7 siblings, 2 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Dan Davison @ 2009-11-26 16:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> this is in response to the discussions about beamer
> export from Org-mode.  Yesterday I had a long train ride
> during which I scanned the beamer documentation (smoking
> hot stuff!).  Then I made the attached draft
> for Org-mode support, strongly based on the stuff
> Eric Fraga has put together recently.  What is described
> below sort-of works in some experimental code here, but before
> I polish I would like comments on this outline.
>
> NOW is the time to chime in.

This is all looking like *extremely* good news to me.

I'm trying to test out Carsten's example, but I have a question that
probably just reveals that I haven't understood the discussion: what
exactly are we supposed to use for the "beamer" entry in
org-export-latex-classes?  Are we using the version in Eric Fraga's
original post unmodified? (But that doesn't seem to have the initial
header-string entry?) [Would someone like to make the start of a Worg
page where we can keep the documentation and configuration code etc as
it evolves? I can do it, but only very ignorantly.]

Thanks,

Dan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 16:49 ` Dan Davison
@ 2009-11-26 16:57   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-27  8:02     ` Eric S Fraga
  2009-11-27  8:01   ` Eric S Fraga
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-11-26 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Davison; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list


On Nov 26, 2009, at 5:49 PM, Dan Davison wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> this is in response to the discussions about beamer
>> export from Org-mode.  Yesterday I had a long train ride
>> during which I scanned the beamer documentation (smoking
>> hot stuff!).  Then I made the attached draft
>> for Org-mode support, strongly based on the stuff
>> Eric Fraga has put together recently.  What is described
>> below sort-of works in some experimental code here, but before
>> I polish I would like comments on this outline.
>>
>> NOW is the time to chime in.
>
> This is all looking like *extremely* good news to me.
>
> I'm trying to test out Carsten's example, but I have a question that
> probably just reveals that I haven't understood the discussion: what
> exactly are we supposed to use for the "beamer" entry in
> org-export-latex-classes?  Are we using the version in Eric Fraga's
> original post unmodified? (But that doesn't seem to have the initial
> header-string entry?) [Would someone like to make the start of a Worg
> page where we can keep the documentation and configuration code etc as
> it evolves? I can do it, but only very ignorantly.]


Nothing of this is yet working with the current org.-mode.  I am  
building special support for this, basically the ability to provide a  
function that does the class support, instead of the list you normally  
have to provide in the org-export-latex-classes variable.  And then  
org-beamer.el which implements this function and the minor mode.

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 11:17 Carsten Dominik
                   ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-11-26 16:49 ` Dan Davison
@ 2009-11-26 17:04 ` Thomas S. Dye
  2009-11-26 18:40   ` Dan Davison
  2009-11-26 17:10 ` Christoph Groth
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  7 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2009-11-26 17:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list

Hi Carsten,

On Nov 26, 2009, at 1:17 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote:

> Hi,
>
> this is in response to the discussions about beamer
> export from Org-mode.  Yesterday I had a long train ride
> during which I scanned the beamer documentation (smoking
> hot stuff!).  Then I made the attached draft
> for Org-mode support, strongly based on the stuff
> Eric Fraga has put together recently.  What is described
> below sort-of works in some experimental code here, but before
> I polish I would like comments on this outline.
>
> NOW is the time to chime in.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Carsten
>

This is a very useful idea.  Beamer is definitely smoking hot stuff!

Org-mode with Beamer works tolerably well now.  Eric Fraga's setup in  
a post a few days ago manages to leverage the core of Beamer  
functionality in plain-vanilla Org-mode.  It would be nice to get all  
of Beamer with Org-mode, but I'm worried that this proposal would  
create a separate species of Org-mode file, which would have a single  
use.  Perhaps my worry is misplaced, but I think it would be more  
useful to embed a Beamer presentation within an Org-mode file.

>                              beamerdoc
>                              =========
>
> Author: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
> Date: 2009-11-26 12:08:45 CET
>
>
>
> Table of Contents
> =================
> 1 Organization
>    1.1 Sections
>    1.2 Frames
>    1.3 Columns
>    1.4 A column
>    1.5 Block-like environments
>    1.6 Overlay/action tag and environment options
>    1.7 Overlay/action in list environment
>    1.8 Embedded LaTeX
>    1.9 Example
> 2 org-beamer-mode
>    2.1 Fast tag selection for beamer environments
>    2.2 Special font-locking of beamer tags
>
>
> 1 Organization
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> 1.1 Sections
> =============
>
> By default, level one headlines become sections in the beamer
> document.  You can configure the variable org-beamer-frame-level
> to change this.  Setting it to three will make level 2 headlines
> become subsections.  For the rest of this document, I will assume
> that this variable has its default value 2.
>

In Beamer, the use (or not) of sections and subsections is determined  
by the theme, which is also responsible for how the title is  
displayed.  So, some mechanism to set the theme will need to be part  
of the package.  After this, in my experience, is the colortheme.  The  
rather somber colors preferred by the Beamer author don't play too  
well here in Hawai`i, and I typically set the colortheme as well.

> 1.2 Frames
> ===========
> Level 2 headline (or the level configured in
> org-beamer-frame-level) become frames.  The headline text become
> the frame title, but if no headline text is given, the frame gets
> no title.  If the frame title contains the string "\\", the line
> will be split at that location, and the second half become the
> frame /subtitle/.
>
> 1.3 Columns
> ============
> Headlines one below frames (level 3 by default) can be used start
> columns on a frame.  The presence of such a headline without a
> beamer tag (see below) will create the columns environment.  The
> text in the headline is ignored.  It is helpful to write
> "columns" in this headline anyway.
>
> 1.4 A column
> =============
> Headlines below a columns environment (level 4 by default) open a
> column.  The text in the headline should be a number smaller than
> one and will be used to define the column width.
>

This idea of a fixed starting point for mapping Org-mode headlines to  
Beamer elements looks very good, if you want to devote an entire Org- 
mode document to a Beamer slide show.  Sebastien Vauban's concerns in  
another message in this thread about all the special requirements for  
headlines in Beamer mode and their effect on the normal Org-mode use  
of the file (I'm paraphrasing) are important.

Would it be possible to tag a headline in some way to indicate "Beamer  
mode starts here" and then have a beamer-export function only export  
appropriately tagged sub-trees?  This would mean that the mapping  
scheme would start at the marked sub-tree level: sections at level n,  
frames at level n+1 (depending on the value of org-beamer-frame- 
level), etc.

With this kind of structure it would be possible to embed more than  
one beamer slide show in an Org-mode file, so there would need to be  
some mechanism to generate separate file names.

> 1.5 Block-like environments
> ============================
> Any headline can become a block-like environment by tagging it
> with a beamer tag.  For examples, `:B_block:' will trigger the
> creation of a block environment, while `:B_theorem:' will trigger
> the creation of a theorem environment.  When it makes sense, the
> headline text is used in an appropriate argument of the
> environment, if that does not make sense, it is ignored.
>
> 1.6 Overlay/action tag and environment options
> ===============================================
> Any headline can contain three types of cookies
>
> `<...>': The overlay/action setting for the environment
> `[<...>]': The default overlay/action specification for the
>     content of the environment, which can be overwritten locally
>     by each content element.
> `[...]': Optional argument(s) for the environment
>
> These can be given in arbitrary order freely in the headline.
> Org-mode will fish them out and insert them in the appropriate
> locations in the \begin statement of the environment.
>
> Having these cookies plainly in the headline reduces the
> usability of the document as a normal document.  I have been
> thinking to move them into comments or properties, but I think
> this is, in the end, less convenient.  I people want to export
> these in other ways as well, we can write a function to clean
> up....
>
> 1.7 Overlay/action in list environment
> =======================================
> For plain list environments (ordered, unordered, and description
> lists) you can start each item optionally with an overlay
> specification `<...>'.  If any item in the list contains a
> default specification `[<...>]', this will be moved into the
> begin statement of the itemize/enumerate/description environment,
> to provide a default setting for the list items.
>
> 1.8 Embedded LaTeX
> ===================
> As is normal for Org-mode, you can embed LaTeX commands into the
> text, and they will be transferred literally into the exported
> document.  In particular, you can also embed beamer-specific
> commands.
>
> 1.9 Example
> ============
> Here is a (still very incomplete) example Org document that is
> intended for beamer export.
>
>  #+LaTeX_CLASS: beamer
>  #+TITLE: Example Presentation
>  #+AUTHOR: Carsten Dominik
>
>  * This is the first structural section
>  ** Frame 1 \\ with a subtitle
>  *** columns will be used
>  **** 0.3
>  ***** Thanks   :B_block:
>        Thanks to Eric Fraga for the first viable beamer setup in Org
>  ***** Here we continue after the block :B_normal:
>        using a "normal" environment that helps to keep the structure
>        after a block
>  **** 0.7
>  ** Frame 2 \\ where we will not use columns
>  ***  
> Request 
>                                                          :B_block:
>      Please test this stuff!
>
> 2 org-beamer-mode
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Org-mode defines a minor mode org-beamer-mode.  The mode is
> turned on automatically when the export class as specified
> in #+LaTeX_CLASS is "beamer".  Currently foreseen features are
> listed below, more could be added where it makes sense.
>
> 2.1 Fast tag selection for beamer environments
> ===============================================
> The command `C-c C-b' will offer fast selection of the various
> tags that trigger specific beamer environments for a headline
>
> 2.2 Special font-locking of beamer tags
> ========================================
> The special tags are highlighted by a special font
>
>

I'm looking forward to expanded Beamer support in Org-mode.

All the best,
Tom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 11:17 Carsten Dominik
                   ` (4 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-11-26 17:04 ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2009-11-26 17:10 ` Christoph Groth
  2009-11-26 21:25   ` Sébastien Vauban
  2009-11-26 18:26 ` Eric S Fraga
  2009-11-29 18:03 ` Gray Calhoun
  7 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Christoph Groth @ 2009-11-26 17:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Nice idea to create LaTeX-presentations using orgmode.  Though, whenever
using beamer, I always find myself having to tweak some spaces on a
fairly low level.  I'm curious whether it will work out to create
non-trivial presentations by using orgmode only.

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> If the frame title contains the string "\\", the line will be split at
> that location, and the second half become the frame /subtitle/.

Sometimes one might have a frame title which is too wide for one line.
Then one might want to split the title at a specific place -- and that
is done by inserting a \\ there.  Therefore, I suggest to use some other
magic string.  What about an unquoted ampersand ("&")?  This character is
already used in LaTeX to split things and its unquoted use in a
frame title is actually an error.

Christoph

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 14:54   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-11-26 17:53     ` Sébastien Vauban
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-11-26 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ

Hi Carsten,

Carsten Dominik wrote:
> On Nov 26, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Sébastien Vauban wrote:
>> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>> [...] before I polish I would like comments on this outline.
>>>
>>> 1 Organization
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> 1.1 Sections
>>> =============
>>>
>>> By default, level one headlines become sections in the beamer
>>> document.  You can configure the variable org-beamer-frame-level
>>> to change this.  Setting it to three will make level 2 headlines
>>> become subsections.  For the rest of this document, I will assume
>>> that this variable has its default value 2.
>>
>> I was used to use Org level-1 headlines as the frame title... but I've never
>> resolved how to put sections in my beamer slides (via Org) -- though this
>> was
>> not that important yet for me, as I only converted slides made by others in
>> PowerPoint, and they don't have such sections (and TOC visible in the left
>> bar).
>>
>> Though, I find this way of structuring excellent: sound and logical. Plus it
>> is even customizable. What else would we want?  Nothing...
>>
>>
>>> 1.3 Columns
>>> ============
>>> Headlines one below frames (level 3 by default) can be used start
>>> columns on a frame.  The presence of such a headline without a
>>> beamer tag (see below) will create the columns environment.  The
>>> text in the headline is ignored.  It is helpful to write
>>> "columns" in this headline anyway.
>>
>> Would *I* be asked about my true opinion, I would really object against this
>> one... Except that you say "can be used". So, I guess we're not forced.
>
> Of course *you* are asked.
>
> I am wondering:  What function do the headlines in your document
> under the frame level have?  How do you export them?  I guess
> you can't have them spit out subsection or so.  What you your
> class configuration?

That's what I tried to say above:

>> I was used to use Org level-1 headlines as the frame title... but I've
>> never resolved how to put sections in my beamer slides (via Org).

I currently couldn't have sections in my beamer presentation.

- The level-1 headlines are the frame titles.
- The level-2 headlines are the level-1 items of the slides.

My current configuration:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
      (add-to-list 'org-export-latex-classes
                   '("beamer"
                     "\\documentclass[t]{beamer}
\\mode<{{{beamermode}}}>
{
\\usetheme{{{{beamertheme}}}}
}
\\usepackage[english]{babel}
\\usepackage[utf8x]{inputenc}
\\usepackage{times}
\\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\\usepackage{pgf}
\\institute{{{{beamerinstitute}}}}
\\subject{{{{beamersubject}}}}"
                     ("\\begin{frame}\\frametitle{%s}\\begin{itemize}"
                      "\\end{itemize}\\end{frame}"
                      "\\begin{frame}\\frametitle{%s}\\begin{itemize}" "\\end{itemize}\\end{frame}")
                     ("\\item{%s}" . "\\item*{%s}")))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


>> My main "problem" here is that I like the idea of being to convert back or
>> forward between Org documents and Org-beamer documents. Such headlines would
>> not mean anything for a "normal" Org document, as you already pointed out.
>>
>> Now, if this is not the default interpretation, it could be OK for
>> everybody.
>> We should show this in the example below:
>> - normal level-3 headlines (level-1 for Beamer) and
>> - "column" level-3 headlines.
>
> Yes, this would be useful.  Indeed, we should work on an extensive example
> once we have settled for a structure/format.  Which is not yet  the case.

I'll try to help on that, as much as I can.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 11:17 Carsten Dominik
                   ` (5 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-11-26 17:10 ` Christoph Groth
@ 2009-11-26 18:26 ` Eric S Fraga
  2009-11-29 18:03 ` Gray Calhoun
  7 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2009-11-26 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list

At Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:17:21 +0100,
Carsten Dominik wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> this is in response to the discussions about beamer
> export from Org-mode.  Yesterday I had a long train ride
> during which I scanned the beamer documentation (smoking
> hot stuff!).  Then I made the attached draft
> for Org-mode support, strongly based on the stuff
> Eric Fraga has put together recently.  What is described
> below sort-of works in some experimental code here, but before
> I polish I would like comments on this outline.

Wow!  This is great Carsten.  

As you know, I have spent the past week preparing a set of lectures
for one of my courses completely in org mode using beamer.  I finished
them today (100 or so slides) and the way I set it up is working quite
well for me.  Mind you, you've added a few features that will
definitely come in useful and I am going to retrofit back into this
set of slides when your update is available.

I do like the whole setup you've defined but I have a couple of comments:

> 1.3 Columns
> ============
> Headlines one below frames (level 3 by default) can be used start
> columns on a frame.  The presence of such a headline without a
> beamer tag (see below) will create the columns environment.  The
> text in the headline is ignored.  It is helpful to write
> "columns" in this headline anyway.

I've modified *my* interpretation of level 3 headings to take the text
given on this heading as the option to the columns environment so
that, for instance,

,----
| * section
| ** a slide
| *** [t]
| **** 0.4
|      - one column
| **** 0.6
|      - another slightly wider column
`----

will generate

  ...
  \begin{columns}[t]  % note the [t]
  ...

as I found this necessary sometimes.  Although this looks a little
ugly, I am not sure if there is a better way of passing these types of
options to the columns environment?

> 1.4 A column
> =============
> Headlines below a columns environment (level 4 by default) open a
> column.  The text in the headline should be a number smaller than
> one and will be used to define the column width.

You may wish to make it clear that this will be relative to \textwidth
as currently defined at that point.

> 1.5 Block-like environments
> ============================
> Any headline can become a block-like environment by tagging it
> with a beamer tag.  For examples, `:B_block:' will trigger the
> creation of a block environment, while `:B_theorem:' will trigger
> the creation of a theorem environment.  When it makes sense, the
> headline text is used in an appropriate argument of the
> environment, if that does not make sense, it is ignored.

This is really nice!  As you know, I was using level 5 for blocks
which meant that they had to be in columns (although obviously I could
have one column of full width).  This is much less clumsy than my
approach. 

One last thing: would you like to mention support for \alert{} or does
this belong elsewhere?

Thanks again,
eric

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 16:47   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-11-26 18:29     ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  2009-12-10 16:09       ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira @ 2009-11-26 18:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list



I usually make my presentations in beamer as below.
,----
| \begin{frame}
|   \frametitle{This is the frametitle}
|   \begin{itemize}
|     \item Some information
|     \begin{itemize}
|       \item Some information in a subitem
|     \end{itemize}
|     \item more information
|     \item more information \note[item]{This is a note about this item}
|   \end{itemize}
| \end{frame}
`----

Therefore, I think a simple solution is just writing the \note command directly
in org that would then be passed to beamer. In org-mode the same slide would be

,----
| * This is the frametitle
|  - Some information
|    - Some information in a subitem
|  - more information
|  - more information \note[item]{This is a note about this item}
`----

This avoids cluttering the org file and since the item (including the note) will
probably span more then one line, then just leaving notes like this will allow
hiding everything with the outline capabilities of org-mode. If a subtree is
used this would probably not be possible.

The "item" option in the note command is used in beamer to number the notes (I
myself always want this).

Of course that if everyone else like to put the notes at the end of the frame
then a subtree with all the notes makes sense. Beamer does not impose where the
notes should be inside the frame and I can reeducate myself to put them inside a
subtree, but I'd like to leave the notes near the items they are related to, if
possible.

- Darlan Cavalcante

At Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:47:22 +0100,
Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Nov 26, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Nick Dokos wrote:
> 
> > Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> this is in response to the discussions about beamer
> >> export from Org-mode.  Yesterday I had a long train ride
> >> during which I scanned the beamer documentation (smoking
> >> hot stuff!).
> >
> > Indeed - Till Tantau has a gift for documentation (among other
> > gifts). I'd recommend the documentation for pgf/tikz as well. Amazing.
> 
> Don't tell me he wrote pgf/tikz as well???
> 
> Unbelievable.
> 
> >
> >> Then I made the attached draft
> >> for Org-mode support, strongly based on the stuff
> >> Eric Fraga has put together recently.  What is described
> >> below sort-of works in some experimental code here, but before
> >> I polish I would like comments on this outline.
> >>
> >> NOW is the time to chime in.
> >>
> >
> > Two questions (with apologies in advance: I've been buried for a while
> > now, so I may have missed important details):
> >
> > o How do I test? Is there a beamer template for org-export-latex- 
> > classes
> >  that implements this spec? I just did a git pull but did not see one.
> 
> This is still crappy code on a local branch here, I want to figure out  
> what
> I/we actually want before publishing it.
> 
> >
> > o I didn't see anything about notes (in the beamer sense: speaker  
> > notes
> >  that don't appear in the slides, but do appear in the handout). For
> >  me, that is one of the most important aspects of beamer: the slides
> >  are there to remind me what to say (and hopefully to elicit the same
> >  memory in the audience, after the talk is finished). They provide the
> >  structure, but they are just a bunch of bones, a skeleton.  The notes
> >  are the meat of the presentation, so imho it would behoove Org to
> >  provide a mechanism for notes from the get-go.
> 
> Yes, I did not look at notes yet.  Good point.
> 
> Any succestions?  Subtrees with a B_note tag?
> 
> First need to try how notes actually work....
> 
> - Carsten
> 
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> 
> - Carsten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 17:04 ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2009-11-26 18:40   ` Dan Davison
  2009-11-26 21:38     ` Sébastien Vauban
                       ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Dan Davison @ 2009-11-26 18:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Thomas S. Dye; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list, Carsten Dominik

<...>
> On Nov 26, 2009, at 1:17 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>
<...>
>> NOW is the time to chime in.

I don't know if this is helpful from someone who hasn't thought through
the details of beamer support but just in case: is there any chance that
we should be thinking at this stage of a generic org-presentation API
which would initially support just beamer but which would leave open the
possibility for others to implement other slide presentation engines?
For example I remember that someone once brought up the possibility on
this list of exporting org to OpenOffice presentation format. And it's
possible to create something like a slide-show in HTML/CSS -- although I
never see anyone doing it. There are at least some things in common
between different slide-show engines, such as where to break from slide
to slide, slide titles, non-slide notes, etc.

Also, I do agree with others that to the extent possible we want
presentations to emerge naturally out of 'normal' org-files with the
help of established org mechanisms such as selective subtree
export. E.g. using the heading title to set the column width feels
wrong; the natural reaction is to think that that sort of metadata
should be in a property.

Dan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 17:10 ` Christoph Groth
@ 2009-11-26 21:25   ` Sébastien Vauban
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-11-26 21:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ

Christoph Groth wrote:
> Nice idea to create LaTeX-presentations using orgmode.  Though, whenever
> using beamer, I always find myself having to tweak some spaces on a
> fairly low level.  I'm curious whether it will work out to create
> non-trivial presentations by using orgmode only.

I am sure we will make it!


>> If the frame title contains the string "\\", the line will be split at
>> that location, and the second half become the frame /subtitle/.
>
> Sometimes one might have a frame title which is too wide for one line.
> Then one might want to split the title at a specific place -- and that
> is done by inserting a \\ there.

An alternative would be for you to use \linebreak in such cases (when you
wanna break the line because it's too long).

Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 18:40   ` Dan Davison
@ 2009-11-26 21:38     ` Sébastien Vauban
  2009-11-26 23:51     ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-27 14:21     ` Magnus Henoch
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-11-26 21:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ

Dan Davison wrote:
>> On Nov 26, 2009, at 1:17 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>> NOW is the time to chime in.
>
> I don't know if this is helpful from someone who hasn't thought through the
> details of beamer support but just in case: is there any chance that we
> should be thinking at this stage of a generic org-presentation API which
> would initially support just beamer but which would leave open the
> possibility for others to implement other slide presentation engines? For
> example I remember that someone once brought up the possibility on this list
> of exporting org to OpenOffice presentation format. And it's possible to
> create something like a slide-show in HTML/CSS -- although I never see
> anyone doing it. There are at least some things in common between different
> slide-show engines, such as where to break from slide to slide, slide
> titles, non-slide notes, etc.

I have absolutely no experience with other "slide" engines in LaTeX. But I
think (as well) it's a good time to think at commonalities between these, so
that one extract the right model, even if we only support Beamer (which I
think is the best) in the first place, and maybe for ever. But it would maybe
ensure we ask ourselves the right questions.

I just know ('ve seen it) that Russell Adams (hep! ;-)) uses Prosper, one of
the old alternatives, before Beamer came on the "market". Maybe he could tell
us some interesting things about this planned construction?


> Also, I do agree with others that to the extent possible we want
> presentations to emerge naturally out of 'normal' org-files

Yes, I do have the same concern. An Org file for Beamer or a standard Org file
should have almost no differences -- except for the class. I think it's even
possible for small and standard slides show that there would be no difference
at all, except once again the length of sentence and the numerous headlines.

At least, the Beamer Org file would be the first mind map, or the skeleton, of
a real-document, would it outgrow from slides to document.


> with the help of established org mechanisms such as selective subtree
> export. E.g. using the heading title to set the column width feels wrong;
> the natural reaction is to think that that sort of metadata should be in a
> property.

I don't know which exact representation it should have, but I'm puzzled by
headlines setting the width of columns, too.

Best regards,
  Fabrice Niessen

-- 
Sébastien Vauban



_______________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 18:40   ` Dan Davison
  2009-11-26 21:38     ` Sébastien Vauban
@ 2009-11-26 23:51     ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-27  9:13       ` Sébastien Vauban
                         ` (2 more replies)
  2009-11-27 14:21     ` Magnus Henoch
  2 siblings, 3 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-11-26 23:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Davison; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list


On Nov 26, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Dan  wrote:

> <...>
>> On Nov 26, 2009, at 1:17 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>
> <...>
>>> NOW is the time to chime in.
>
> I don't know if this is helpful from someone who hasn't thought  
> through
> the details of beamer support but just in case: is there any chance  
> that
> we should be thinking at this stage of a generic org-presentation API
> which would initially support just beamer but which would leave open  
> the
> possibility for others to implement other slide presentation engines?
> For example I remember that someone once brought up the possibility on
> this list of exporting org to OpenOffice presentation format. And it's
> possible to create something like a slide-show in HTML/CSS --  
> although I
> never see anyone doing it. There are at least some things in common
> between different slide-show engines, such as where to break from  
> slide
> to slide, slide titles, non-slide notes, etc.

This is an interesting thought, but would require someone skilled
in his area, and a lengthy design process.  LaTeX is not a bad
default for org, because it is LaTeX-centric anyway.... ?

>
> Also, I do agree with others that to the extent possible we want
> presentations to emerge naturally out of 'normal' org-files with the
> help of established org mechanisms such as selective subtree
> export. E.g. using the heading title to set the column width feels
> wrong; the natural reaction is to think that that sort of metadata
> should be in a property.

OK, I hear you all pull the same string, that Org-mode files should be  
beamer presentations as they are, more or less.

Here are some ideas in that direction:

1. Don't automatically use a specific headline level to create the  
columns
    environment - at least make that configurable.

2. Make beamer export force org-export-headline-levels equal org- 
beamer-frame-level,
    so that headlines below the frame level automatically become itemize
    levels, unless modified by tags or properties.

3. Use meta data to make headlines special, instead of mixing this
    stuff into the.  I first thought this is too hard - but maybe it is
    OK when edited with column view?  Hmm, I am only half-sold on this  
- properties
    are so hard to see when you need them frequently during editing.

Thomas asked for the possibility to export a subtree as a
presentation, with *relative* levels determining functionality.  This
should be easy - when selection a subtree with `C-c @' and then  
exporting,
relative levels are already being used now, for any kind of export.

...

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 16:49 ` Dan Davison
  2009-11-26 16:57   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-11-27  8:01   ` Eric S Fraga
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2009-11-27  8:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Davison; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list

At Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:49:49 -0500,
Dan Davison wrote:

[...]

> 
> I'm trying to test out Carsten's example, but I have a question that
> probably just reveals that I haven't understood the discussion: what
> exactly are we supposed to use for the "beamer" entry in
> org-export-latex-classes?  Are we using the version in Eric Fraga's
> original post unmodified? (But that doesn't seem to have the initial
> header-string entry?) [Would someone like to make the start of a Worg
> page where we can keep the documentation and configuration code etc as
> it evolves? I can do it, but only very ignorantly.]

Dan,

sorry I didn't include everything in those earlier posts.  Here is the
full class definition I have been using (and this works with the
current version of org mode prior to Carsten's proposed changes):

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
("beamer"
	 "\\documentclass[bigger]{beamer}\n\\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}\n\\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}\n\\usepackage{hyperref}\n\\usepackage{verbatim}\n
\\definecolor{verylightgray}{rgb}{0.93,0.93,1.0}
\\mode<beamer>{\\usetheme{progressbar}}
\\mode<handout>{\\usecolortheme[rgb={0.5,0.5,0.5}]{structure}\\usepackage{pgfpages}\\pgfpagesuselayout{4 on 1}[a4paper,landscape,border shrink=5mm]}
\\usepackage[absolute,overlay]{textpos}\\setlength{\\TPHorizModule}{1mm}\\setlength{\\TPVertModule}{1mm}
"
	 ("\\section{%s}" . "\\section*{%s}")
	 ("\\begin{frame}\\frametitle{%s}" "\\end{frame}"
	  "\\begin{frame}\\frametitle{%s}" "\\end{frame}")
	 ("\\begin{columns}%s" "\\end{columns}"
	  "\\begin{columns}%s" "\\end{columns}")
	 ("\\begin{column}{%s\\textwidth}" "\\end{column}"
	  "\\begin{column}{%s\\textwidth}" "\\end{column}")
	 ("\\begin{block}{%s}" "\\end{block}"
	  "\\begin{block}{%s}" "\\end{block}")
	 )
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

You may need to change the beamer theme as I am not sure the progress
bar theme is in the standard beamer distribution (and I've hacked mine
in any case...).

I also have a "beamerhandout" class which looks identical to this one
except that the "handout" option has been passed to the documentclass
statement.  This begs the question: is there any way in org mode to
specify options to the document class?  It would greatly simplify
things!

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 16:57   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-11-27  8:02     ` Eric S Fraga
  2009-11-27  9:09       ` Sébastien Vauban
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2009-11-27  8:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list

At Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:57:29 +0100,
Carsten Dominik wrote:

[...]

> Nothing of this is yet working with the current org.-mode.  I am
> building special support for this, basically the ability to provide a
> function that does the class support, instead of the list you normally
> have to provide in the org-export-latex-classes variable.  And then

Carsten,

one thing that would be useful (and which I've mentioned in a reply to
Dan) is the ability to specify options for the documentclass
(e.g. bigger, handout).  This would actually be useful in normal latex
export as well, of course.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-27  8:02     ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2009-11-27  9:09       ` Sébastien Vauban
  2009-11-27 13:48         ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-11-27  9:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ

Hi all,

Eric S Fraga wrote:
> one thing that would be useful (and which I've mentioned in a reply to Dan)
> is the ability to specify options for the documentclass (e.g. bigger,
> handout). This would actually be useful in normal latex export as well, of
> course.

Yes, we (would) need such a feature. For example, in our company LaTeX class,
we have options like `black' for uncolored output, or `acro' for putting
automatically an acronym sections. There are others as well.

The number of combinations can explode quite quickly, so that the smart
workaround of Eric is not usable outside of `beamer' and `beamerhandout'.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban



_______________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 23:51     ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-11-27  9:13       ` Sébastien Vauban
  2009-11-27 14:26       ` Stephan Schmitt
  2009-12-02 16:27       ` Christian Egli
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-11-27  9:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ

Hi Carsten,

Carsten Dominik wrote:
> On Nov 26, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Dan  wrote:
>> Also, I do agree with others that to the extent possible we want
>> presentations to emerge naturally out of 'normal' org-files with the help
>> of established org mechanisms such as selective subtree export. E.g. using
>> the heading title to set the column width feels wrong; the natural reaction
>> is to think that that sort of metadata should be in a property.
>
> OK, I hear you all pull the same string, that Org-mode files should be
> beamer presentations as they are, more or less.
>
> Here are some ideas in that direction:
>
> 1. Don't automatically use a specific headline level to create the columns
>    environment - at least make that configurable.
>
> 2. Make beamer export force org-export-headline-levels equal
>    org-beamer-frame-level, so that headlines below the frame level
>    automatically become itemize levels, unless modified by tags or
>    properties.
>
> 3. Use meta data to make headlines special, instead of mixing this stuff
>    into the. I first thought this is too hard - but maybe it is OK when
>    edited with column view? Hmm, I am only half-sold on this - properties
>    are so hard to see when you need them frequently during editing.
>
> Thomas asked for the possibility to export a subtree as a presentation, with
> *relative* levels determining functionality. This should be easy - when
> selection a subtree with `C-c @' and then exporting, relative levels are
> already being used now, for any kind of export.

As far as I understand, I perfectly agree with the explained approach, yes!

Thanks for all,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 18:40   ` Dan Davison
  2009-11-26 21:38     ` Sébastien Vauban
  2009-11-26 23:51     ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-11-27 14:21     ` Magnus Henoch
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Magnus Henoch @ 2009-11-27 14:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:

> And it's possible to create something like a slide-show in HTML/CSS --
> although I never see anyone doing it.

Have a look at S5: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/s5-intro.html

Magnus

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 23:51     ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-27  9:13       ` Sébastien Vauban
@ 2009-11-27 14:26       ` Stephan Schmitt
  2009-12-02 16:27       ` Christian Egli
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Stephan Schmitt @ 2009-11-27 14:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: Dan Davison, mailing-list-org-mode list


Carsten Dominik wrote:
 >
 > On Nov 26, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Dan  wrote:
 >> ... using the heading title to set the column width feels
 >> wrong; the natural reaction is to think that that sort of metadata
 >> should be in a property.
 >
 > OK, I hear you all pull the same string, that Org-mode files should be
 > beamer presentations as they are, more or less.
 >
 > ...
 > 3. Use meta data to make headlines special, instead of mixing this
 >    stuff into the.  I first thought this is too hard - but maybe it is
 >    OK when edited with column view?  Hmm, I am only half-sold on this -
 > properties
 >    are so hard to see when you need them frequently during editing.
 >

Hi,

I would also prefer not to use headline content for formatting purposes.

Instead of introducing a new syntax for column widths, I'd rather store them as 
properties and provide dedicated functions to edit these in a convenient way.

Just my 2 cents, though.
Greetings,
	Stephan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-27 13:48         ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-11-27 15:04           ` Sébastien Vauban
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-11-27 15:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ

Hi Carsten,

Carsten Dominik wrote:
> On Nov 27, 2009, at 10:09 AM, Sébastien Vauban wrote:
>> Eric S Fraga wrote:
>>> one thing that would be useful (and which I've mentioned in a reply to
>>> Dan) is the ability to specify options for the documentclass (e.g. bigger,
>>> handout). This would actually be useful in normal latex export as well, of
>>> course.
>>
>> Yes, we (would) need such a feature. For example, in our company LaTeX
>> class, we have options like `black' for uncolored output, or `acro' for
>> putting automatically an acronym sections. There are others as well.
>
> You can now use
>
> #+LaTeX_CLASS_OPTIONS: [black]
>
> and also a property if you are exporting a specific subtree.

Thanks a lot.

Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban



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Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 11:17 Carsten Dominik
                   ` (6 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-11-26 18:26 ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2009-11-29 18:03 ` Gray Calhoun
  2009-11-29 20:19   ` Carsten Dominik
  7 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Gray Calhoun @ 2009-11-29 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list

Hi Carsten and all,

Beamer export sounds fantastic.  I've been using org mode for this sort 
of thing a lot over the last year--all of my lecture notes are typed up 
as an org file, and I used org mode to draft slides for a presentation 
over the summer, so an automated process would be helpful.

But, I'm not sure that it makes sense to hardcode the frames as a level 
2 headline (or any level headline); I find it easier to define a slide 
to be any headline that has no subheadings, regardless of its 
depth---the ability to outline the structure of a presentation as 
appropriate and then fill in the details (ie the slides) later is (imho) 
the reason to use org-mode for this sort of task in the first place. 
Columns, etc., could then be handled by using properties of the last 
headline, or as a special list.

This approach might also make it easier to export the same file to other 
formats (i.e. the existing html format).  I imagine that this would be a 
little harder to program, though, and is just my two cents.

--Gray

Carsten Dominik wrote:
(snipped)
> 1.2 Frames
> ===========
> Level 2 headline (or the level configured in
> org-beamer-frame-level) become frames.  The headline text become
> the frame title, but if no headline text is given, the frame gets
> no title.  If the frame title contains the string "\\", the line
> will be split at that location, and the second half become the
> frame /subtitle/.
(snipped)

-- 
Gray Calhoun

Assistant Professor of Economics, Iowa State University
http://www.econ.iastate.edu/~gcalhoun/

467 Heady Hall
Ames, IA 50011
Phone: (515) 294-6271
Fax:   (515) 294-0221

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-29 18:03 ` Gray Calhoun
@ 2009-11-29 20:19   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-30 23:21     ` Gray Calhoun
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-11-29 20:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Gray Calhoun; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list

Hi Gray,

thanks for chiming in, this was a very important piece of the puzzle.   
I had already realized that I should give up having fixed levels for  
columns, but I had still panned fixed levels for frames.  Now after  
your post I realize that this can be useful, but is not required,  
which means it should be optional.

Thanks!

- Carsten

On Nov 29, 2009, at 7:03 PM, Gray Calhoun wrote:

> Hi Carsten and all,
>
> Beamer export sounds fantastic.  I've been using org mode for this  
> sort of thing a lot over the last year--all of my lecture notes are  
> typed up as an org file, and I used org mode to draft slides for a  
> presentation over the summer, so an automated process would be  
> helpful.
>
> But, I'm not sure that it makes sense to hardcode the frames as a  
> level 2 headline (or any level headline); I find it easier to define  
> a slide to be any headline that has no subheadings, regardless of  
> its depth---the ability to outline the structure of a presentation  
> as appropriate and then fill in the details (ie the slides) later is  
> (imho) the reason to use org-mode for this sort of task in the first  
> place. Columns, etc., could then be handled by using properties of  
> the last headline, or as a special list.
>
> This approach might also make it easier to export the same file to  
> other formats (i.e. the existing html format).  I imagine that this  
> would be a little harder to program, though, and is just my two cents.
>
> --Gray
>
> Carsten Dominik wrote:
> (snipped)
>> 1.2 Frames
>> ===========
>> Level 2 headline (or the level configured in
>> org-beamer-frame-level) become frames.  The headline text become
>> the frame title, but if no headline text is given, the frame gets
>> no title.  If the frame title contains the string "\\", the line
>> will be split at that location, and the second half become the
>> frame /subtitle/.
> (snipped)
>
> -- 
> Gray Calhoun
>
> Assistant Professor of Economics, Iowa State University
> http://www.econ.iastate.edu/~gcalhoun/
>
> 467 Heady Hall
> Ames, IA 50011
> Phone: (515) 294-6271
> Fax:   (515) 294-0221

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-29 20:19   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-11-30 23:21     ` Gray Calhoun
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Gray Calhoun @ 2009-11-30 23:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: mailing-list-org-mode list

An optional setting sounds great.  I can't wait to see how it turns out.
--Gray

Carsten Dominik wrote:
> Hi Gray,
>
> thanks for chiming in, this was a very important piece of the puzzle.  
> I had already realized that I should give up having fixed levels for 
> columns, but I had still panned fixed levels for frames.  Now after 
> your post I realize that this can be useful, but is not required, 
> which means it should be optional.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Carsten
>
> On Nov 29, 2009, at 7:03 PM, Gray Calhoun wrote:
>
>> Hi Carsten and all,
>>
>> Beamer export sounds fantastic.  I've been using org mode for this 
>> sort of thing a lot over the last year--all of my lecture notes are 
>> typed up as an org file, and I used org mode to draft slides for a 
>> presentation over the summer, so an automated process would be helpful.
>>
>> But, I'm not sure that it makes sense to hardcode the frames as a 
>> level 2 headline (or any level headline); I find it easier to define 
>> a slide to be any headline that has no subheadings, regardless of its 
>> depth---the ability to outline the structure of a presentation as 
>> appropriate and then fill in the details (ie the slides) later is 
>> (imho) the reason to use org-mode for this sort of task in the first 
>> place. Columns, etc., could then be handled by using properties of 
>> the last headline, or as a special list.
>>
>> This approach might also make it easier to export the same file to 
>> other formats (i.e. the existing html format).  I imagine that this 
>> would be a little harder to program, though, and is just my two cents.
>>
>> --Gray
>>
>> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>> (snipped)
>>> 1.2 Frames
>>> ===========
>>> Level 2 headline (or the level configured in
>>> org-beamer-frame-level) become frames.  The headline text become
>>> the frame title, but if no headline text is given, the frame gets
>>> no title.  If the frame title contains the string "\\", the line
>>> will be split at that location, and the second half become the
>>> frame /subtitle/.
>> (snipped)
>>
>> -- 
>> Gray Calhoun
>>
>> Assistant Professor of Economics, Iowa State University
>> http://www.econ.iastate.edu/~gcalhoun/
>>
>> 467 Heady Hall
>> Ames, IA 50011
>> Phone: (515) 294-6271
>> Fax:   (515) 294-0221
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 23:51     ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-11-27  9:13       ` Sébastien Vauban
  2009-11-27 14:26       ` Stephan Schmitt
@ 2009-12-02 16:27       ` Christian Egli
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Christian Egli @ 2009-12-02 16:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 605 bytes --]

Hi Carsten

I've been using org-mode to create a few presentations and found it to
be extremely productive. I use different levels for parts (in the past),
sections and subsections. Beyond that I just use lists. I haven't used
blocks and columns (probably because it wasn't easily possible so far).

Also I use separate org files for all presentations.

See
http://www.daisy2009.de/files/presentations/itc/egli__daisy_producer.pdf,
http://liblouis.googlecode.com/files/liblouisSlides.pdf and
http://liblouis.googlecode.com/files/liblouisSlides.org for examples

Here's the relevant expert from my .emacs


[-- Attachment #2: relevant exerpt from my .emacs --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 358 bytes --]

 '(org-export-latex-classes (quote (("beamer" "\\documentclass[]{beamer}
\\usetheme{Frankfurt}
\\usepackage{multimedia}
\\usepackage[english]{babel}
\\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\\usepackage{hyperref}" ("\\section{%s}" . "\\section{%s}") ("\\subsection{%s}" . "\\subsection{%s}") ("\\begin{frame}{%s}" "\\end{frame}" "\\begin{frame}{%s}" "\\end{frame}")))))

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 1783 bytes --]


Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> 1. Don't automatically use a specific headline level to create the
> columns
>    environment - at least make that configurable.

Generally I like the idea of using the levels as an indication for
beamer. However this needs to be configurable, as I have also used parts
in the past for example.

> 2. Make beamer export force org-export-headline-levels equal org-
> beamer-frame-level,
>    so that headlines below the frame level automatically become itemize
>    levels, unless modified by tags or properties.

I don't really care about that too much (in fact I think it just
introduces confusion). I just always used lists for bullet points.

> 3. Use meta data to make headlines special, instead of mixing this
>    stuff into the.  I first thought this is too hard - but maybe it is
>    OK when edited with column view?  Hmm, I am only half-sold on this
> - properties
>    are so hard to see when you need them frequently during editing.

This sounds reasonable, as I usually create an outline of the ideas
first and from that create a presentation. Later I might reuse it for a
paper, so I don't really want it to be interspersed with layout
information.

> Thomas asked for the possibility to export a subtree as a
> presentation, with *relative* levels determining functionality.  This
> should be easy - when selection a subtree with `C-c @' and then
> exporting,
> relative levels are already being used now, for any kind of export.

I don't have a need for that as I use separate files for each
presentation.

Another thing that I tried to use was alerts (and colors) in bullet
points. I seem to remember that it didn't work. I should try again. It
appears that Eric managed to get them to work.

Thanks
Christian

[-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --]

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-11-26 18:29     ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
@ 2009-12-10 16:09       ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-12-10 16:50         ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  2009-12-15 15:51         ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-12-10 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira; +Cc: Org Mode


On Nov 26, 2009, at 7:29 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:

>
>
> I usually make my presentations in beamer as below.
> ,----
> | \begin{frame}
> |   \frametitle{This is the frametitle}
> |   \begin{itemize}
> |     \item Some information
> |     \begin{itemize}
> |       \item Some information in a subitem
> |     \end{itemize}
> |     \item more information
> |     \item more information \note[item]{This is a note about this  
> item}
> |   \end{itemize}
> | \end{frame}
> `----
>
> Therefore, I think a simple solution is just writing the \note  
> command directly
> in org that would then be passed to beamer. In org-mode the same  
> slide would be
>
> ,----
> | * This is the frametitle
> |  - Some information
> |    - Some information in a subitem
> |  - more information
> |  - more information \note[item]{This is a note about this item}
> `----
>
> This avoids cluttering the org file and since the item (including  
> the note) will
> probably span more then one line, then just leaving notes like this  
> will allow
> hiding everything with the outline capabilities of org-mode. If a  
> subtree is
> used this would probably not be possible.
>
> The "item" option in the note command is used in beamer to number  
> the notes (I
> myself always want this).
>
> Of course that if everyone else like to put the notes at the end of  
> the frame
> then a subtree with all the notes makes sense. Beamer does not  
> impose where the
> notes should be inside the frame and I can reeducate myself to put  
> them inside a
> subtree, but I'd like to leave the notes near the items they are  
> related to, if
> possible.

I still don't have any better ideas than this to represent notes
in Org for beamer presentations.  Just writing \noe{...} as you
suggest will certainly work - the disadvantage is that this does
not make a lot of sense when exporting to other formats.

One option would be to turn all those notes into footnotes
for other export.....

I'd really be interested to get more input on this issue.

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-10 16:09       ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-12-10 16:50         ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  2009-12-10 17:28           ` Nick Dokos
  2009-12-15 15:51         ` Eric S Fraga
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira @ 2009-12-10 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: Org Mode

At Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:09:33 +0100,
Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Nov 26, 2009, at 7:29 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I usually make my presentations in beamer as below.
> > ,----
> > | \begin{frame}
> > |   \frametitle{This is the frametitle}
> > |   \begin{itemize}
> > |     \item Some information
> > |     \begin{itemize}
> > |       \item Some information in a subitem
> > |     \end{itemize}
> > |     \item more information
> > |     \item more information \note[item]{This is a note about this  
> > item}
> > |   \end{itemize}
> > | \end{frame}
> > `----
> >
> > Therefore, I think a simple solution is just writing the \note  
> > command directly
> > in org that would then be passed to beamer. In org-mode the same  
> > slide would be
> >
> > ,----
> > | * This is the frametitle
> > |  - Some information
> > |    - Some information in a subitem
> > |  - more information
> > |  - more information \note[item]{This is a note about this item}
> > `----
> >
> > This avoids cluttering the org file and since the item (including  
> > the note) will
> > probably span more then one line, then just leaving notes like this  
> > will allow
> > hiding everything with the outline capabilities of org-mode. If a  
> > subtree is
> > used this would probably not be possible.
> >
> > The "item" option in the note command is used in beamer to number  
> > the notes (I
> > myself always want this).
> >
> > Of course that if everyone else like to put the notes at the end of  
> > the frame
> > then a subtree with all the notes makes sense. Beamer does not  
> > impose where the
> > notes should be inside the frame and I can reeducate myself to put  
> > them inside a
> > subtree, but I'd like to leave the notes near the items they are  
> > related to, if
> > possible.
> 
> I still don't have any better ideas than this to represent notes
> in Org for beamer presentations.  Just writing \noe{...} as you
> suggest will certainly work - the disadvantage is that this does
> not make a lot of sense when exporting to other formats.
> 
> One option would be to turn all those notes into footnotes
> for other export.....
> 
> I'd really be interested to get more input on this issue.
> 
> - Carsten
> 

Maybe it is better to simple ignore notes when exporting to other formats.

For me notes in beamer are useful only to give me an idea of what I intend to
talk about in the presentation and help me training for the presentation. They
are not really "part of the final exported document" and sometimes I put a lot
of information in them (possible in a different language from the
presentation).

Also, the contents in notes can be anything such as a table or a figure. This
obviously would result in an error if or if org tried to put them into a
footnote when exporting to other formats.

Therefore, the question is has anyone here any interest in notes when exporting
to other formats or do they only make sense when exporting to beamer?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-10 16:50         ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
@ 2009-12-10 17:28           ` Nick Dokos
  2009-12-10 20:49             ` Mark Elston
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2009-12-10 17:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira; +Cc: Org Mode, Carsten Dominik

Darlan Cavalcante Moreira <darcamo@gmail.com> wrote:

> At Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:09:33 +0100,
> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Nov 26, 2009, at 7:29 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > > I usually make my presentations in beamer as below.
> > > ,----
> > > | \begin{frame}
> > > |   \frametitle{This is the frametitle}
> > > |   \begin{itemize}
> > > |     \item Some information
> > > |     \begin{itemize}
> > > |       \item Some information in a subitem
> > > |     \end{itemize}
> > > |     \item more information
> > > |     \item more information \note[item]{This is a note about this  
> > > item}
> > > |   \end{itemize}
> > > | \end{frame}
> > > `----
> > >
> > > Therefore, I think a simple solution is just writing the \note  
> > > command directly
> > > in org that would then be passed to beamer. In org-mode the same  
> > > slide would be
> > >
> > > ,----
> > > | * This is the frametitle
> > > |  - Some information
> > > |    - Some information in a subitem
> > > |  - more information
> > > |  - more information \note[item]{This is a note about this item}
> > > `----
> > >
> > > This avoids cluttering the org file and since the item (including  
> > > the note) will
> > > probably span more then one line, then just leaving notes like this  
> > > will allow
> > > hiding everything with the outline capabilities of org-mode. If a  
> > > subtree is
> > > used this would probably not be possible.
> > >
> > > The "item" option in the note command is used in beamer to number  
> > > the notes (I
> > > myself always want this).
> > >
> > > Of course that if everyone else like to put the notes at the end of  
> > > the frame
> > > then a subtree with all the notes makes sense. Beamer does not  
> > > impose where the
> > > notes should be inside the frame and I can reeducate myself to put  
> > > them inside a
> > > subtree, but I'd like to leave the notes near the items they are  
> > > related to, if
> > > possible.
> > 
> > I still don't have any better ideas than this to represent notes
> > in Org for beamer presentations.  Just writing \noe{...} as you
> > suggest will certainly work - the disadvantage is that this does
> > not make a lot of sense when exporting to other formats.
> > 
> > One option would be to turn all those notes into footnotes
> > for other export.....
> > 
> > I'd really be interested to get more input on this issue.
> > 
> > - Carsten
> > 
> 
> Maybe it is better to simple ignore notes when exporting to other formats.
> 
> For me notes in beamer are useful only to give me an idea of what I intend to
> talk about in the presentation and help me training for the presentation. They
> are not really "part of the final exported document" and sometimes I put a lot
> of information in them (possible in a different language from the
> presentation).
> 
> Also, the contents in notes can be anything such as a table or a figure. This
> obviously would result in an error if or if org tried to put them into a
> footnote when exporting to other formats.
> 
> Therefore, the question is has anyone here any interest in notes when exporting
> to other formats or do they only make sense when exporting to beamer?
> 

For me, notes are rather important: in addition to reminding me what to
say, they are essentially a second level to the presentation (and I
always include them in any handouts). Somebody who has a vague interest
in the subject can look at the slides. If they want to go into it a bit
deeper, they can look at the notes.

I've done a handful of presentations using org/beamer and they have all
been written specifically for exporting to beamer. In most cases, I've
had to manipulate the LaTeX output to get what I want (but at least part
of that was because of my own stupidity: my mapping from org to beamer
was much more limited than it had to be - unfortunately, I've not had
the time to go back and rework a presentation in light of what I now
know, so I still can't be much help to say what works and what doesn't).

Given that I only export the presentation to beamer, I'm actually happy
with Darlan's solution. I hope to try it over the Christmas break and
report back.

So unless somebody comes up with a really good idea, delaying any
org-specific implementation might be the best way forward: it would save
wear-and-tear on Carsten, allow the rest of us to catch up and gather
some experience and perhaps come up with better ideas on how to handle
this.

Nick

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-10 17:28           ` Nick Dokos
@ 2009-12-10 20:49             ` Mark Elston
  2009-12-10 21:00               ` Thomas S. Dye
  2009-12-10 21:05               ` Scot Becker
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Mark Elston @ 2009-12-10 20:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Org Mode; +Cc: Carsten Dominik

I have been following this discussion with some interest as it may
provide the basis for something I am interested in doing as well.
I hope my discussion doesn't muddy the waters too much...

Nick Dokos wrote:
> Darlan Cavalcante Moreira <darcamo@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> At Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:09:33 +0100,
>> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> ...
>>> I still don't have any better ideas than this to represent notes
>>> in Org for beamer presentations.  Just writing \noe{...} as you
>>> suggest will certainly work - the disadvantage is that this does
>>> not make a lot of sense when exporting to other formats.
>>>
>>> One option would be to turn all those notes into footnotes
>>> for other export.....
>>>
>>> I'd really be interested to get more input on this issue.
>>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>> Maybe it is better to simple ignore notes when exporting to other formats.
>>
>> For me notes in beamer are useful only to give me an idea of what I intend to
>> talk about in the presentation and help me training for the presentation. They
>> are not really "part of the final exported document" and sometimes I put a lot
>> of information in them (possible in a different language from the
>> presentation).
>>
>> Also, the contents in notes can be anything such as a table or a figure. This
>> obviously would result in an error if or if org tried to put them into a
>> footnote when exporting to other formats.
>>
>> Therefore, the question is has anyone here any interest in notes when exporting
>> to other formats or do they only make sense when exporting to beamer?
>>

My case is similar.  I teach a class each week and, so far, have created
two documents; a set of handouts and my notes for teaching.  Generally
these documents start from the same original and I modify and expand the
notes I use for teaching while leaving the handouts a smaller doc for
those in the class to take their own notes from.

I don't use beamer as the handouts tend to be 6-8 pages of 'normal' text
as it is and my teaching notes are usually far larger.  I don't want to
manipulate a stack of paper while teaching.

> 
> For me, notes are rather important: in addition to reminding me what to
> say, they are essentially a second level to the presentation (and I
> always include them in any handouts). Somebody who has a vague interest
> in the subject can look at the slides. If they want to go into it a bit
> deeper, they can look at the notes.

My case is similar but I don't 'expose' my teaching notes to the
students for a variety of reasons.

> 
> ...
> So unless somebody comes up with a really good idea, delaying any
> org-specific implementation might be the best way forward: it would save
> wear-and-tear on Carsten, allow the rest of us to catch up and gather
> some experience and perhaps come up with better ideas on how to handle
> this.
> 
> Nick
> 

I guess my request is similar to what has been discussed above in that I
would *very* much like to maintain handouts and teaching material in the
same file and then export it to two different files as necessary.  This
would make my job a lot easier to manage.  I could decide which tables,
figures, text, etc are common to both docs and which are just for me and
everything happens automatically behind the scenes.

Beamer output is not critical for me (or even necessarily desired) right
now but I would like a way of marking some text for 'limited' export.
Using a special notation is not a problem if it gives me the ability to
maintain a single document that I can export to two different LaTeX/PDF
docs.

Mark

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-10 20:49             ` Mark Elston
@ 2009-12-10 21:00               ` Thomas S. Dye
  2009-12-10 22:02                 ` Mark Elston
  2009-12-10 21:05               ` Scot Becker
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2009-12-10 21:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mark Elston; +Cc: Org Mode


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4195 bytes --]

Hi Mark,

On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Mark Elston wrote:

> I have been following this discussion with some interest as it may
> provide the basis for something I am interested in doing as well.
> I hope my discussion doesn't muddy the waters too much...
>
> Nick Dokos wrote:
>> Darlan Cavalcante Moreira <darcamo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> At Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:09:33 +0100,
>>> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>> I still don't have any better ideas than this to represent notes
>>>> in Org for beamer presentations.  Just writing \noe{...} as you
>>>> suggest will certainly work - the disadvantage is that this does
>>>> not make a lot of sense when exporting to other formats.
>>>>
>>>> One option would be to turn all those notes into footnotes
>>>> for other export.....
>>>>
>>>> I'd really be interested to get more input on this issue.
>>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>>
>>> Maybe it is better to simple ignore notes when exporting to other  
>>> formats.
>>>
>>> For me notes in beamer are useful only to give me an idea of what  
>>> I intend to
>>> talk about in the presentation and help me training for the  
>>> presentation. They
>>> are not really "part of the final exported document" and sometimes  
>>> I put a lot
>>> of information in them (possible in a different language from the
>>> presentation).
>>>
>>> Also, the contents in notes can be anything such as a table or a  
>>> figure. This
>>> obviously would result in an error if or if org tried to put them  
>>> into a
>>> footnote when exporting to other formats.
>>>
>>> Therefore, the question is has anyone here any interest in notes  
>>> when exporting
>>> to other formats or do they only make sense when exporting to  
>>> beamer?
>>>
>
> My case is similar.  I teach a class each week and, so far, have  
> created
> two documents; a set of handouts and my notes for teaching.  Generally
> these documents start from the same original and I modify and expand  
> the
> notes I use for teaching while leaving the handouts a smaller doc for
> those in the class to take their own notes from.
>
> I don't use beamer as the handouts tend to be 6-8 pages of 'normal'  
> text
> as it is and my teaching notes are usually far larger.  I don't want  
> to
> manipulate a stack of paper while teaching.
>
>> For me, notes are rather important: in addition to reminding me  
>> what to
>> say, they are essentially a second level to the presentation (and I
>> always include them in any handouts). Somebody who has a vague  
>> interest
>> in the subject can look at the slides. If they want to go into it a  
>> bit
>> deeper, they can look at the notes.
>
> My case is similar but I don't 'expose' my teaching notes to the
> students for a variety of reasons.
>
>> ...
>> So unless somebody comes up with a really good idea, delaying any
>> org-specific implementation might be the best way forward: it would  
>> save
>> wear-and-tear on Carsten, allow the rest of us to catch up and gather
>> some experience and perhaps come up with better ideas on how to  
>> handle
>> this.
>> Nick
>
> I guess my request is similar to what has been discussed above in  
> that I
> would *very* much like to maintain handouts and teaching material in  
> the
> same file and then export it to two different files as necessary.   
> This
> would make my job a lot easier to manage.  I could decide which  
> tables,
> figures, text, etc are common to both docs and which are just for me  
> and
> everything happens automatically behind the scenes.
>
> Beamer output is not critical for me (or even necessarily desired)  
> right
> now but I would like a way of marking some text for 'limited' export.
> Using a special notation is not a problem if it gives me the ability  
> to
> maintain a single document that I can export to two different LaTeX/ 
> PDF
> docs.
>
> Mark

I use Org-babel to accomplish this.  Its literate programming facility  
lets you define a block of text and re-use it wherever you like.  You  
can "tangle" as many .tex files as you want from a single Org-mode  
document.

You can find some examples here:

http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/org-babel-uses.php

HTH,
Tom

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_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-10 20:49             ` Mark Elston
  2009-12-10 21:00               ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2009-12-10 21:05               ` Scot Becker
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Scot Becker @ 2009-12-10 21:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mark Elston; +Cc: Org Mode, Carsten Dominik


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4501 bytes --]

For what it's worth, my preparation style would follow Mark's.  Chart the
flow of what I want to say in org, ideally using whatever hierarchy I need
to do it, then export the outline and essential detail for
beamer-and/or-handouts.  I'd keep the teaching notes to myself (and keep
them part of the same outline) if there was a way to do it.  I'm happy to
use the \notes{} proposal until the org-hive figures out if something more
elegant can be done.

Scot


On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Mark Elston <m_elston@comcast.net> wrote:

> I have been following this discussion with some interest as it may
> provide the basis for something I am interested in doing as well.
> I hope my discussion doesn't muddy the waters too much...
>
> Nick Dokos wrote:
>
>> Darlan Cavalcante Moreira <darcamo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  At Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:09:33 +0100,
>>> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>> I still don't have any better ideas than this to represent notes
>>>> in Org for beamer presentations.  Just writing \noe{...} as you
>>>> suggest will certainly work - the disadvantage is that this does
>>>> not make a lot of sense when exporting to other formats.
>>>>
>>>> One option would be to turn all those notes into footnotes
>>>> for other export.....
>>>>
>>>> I'd really be interested to get more input on this issue.
>>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>>
>>>>  Maybe it is better to simple ignore notes when exporting to other
>>> formats.
>>>
>>> For me notes in beamer are useful only to give me an idea of what I
>>> intend to
>>> talk about in the presentation and help me training for the presentation.
>>> They
>>> are not really "part of the final exported document" and sometimes I put
>>> a lot
>>> of information in them (possible in a different language from the
>>> presentation).
>>>
>>> Also, the contents in notes can be anything such as a table or a figure.
>>> This
>>> obviously would result in an error if or if org tried to put them into a
>>> footnote when exporting to other formats.
>>>
>>> Therefore, the question is has anyone here any interest in notes when
>>> exporting
>>> to other formats or do they only make sense when exporting to beamer?
>>>
>>>
> My case is similar.  I teach a class each week and, so far, have created
> two documents; a set of handouts and my notes for teaching.  Generally
> these documents start from the same original and I modify and expand the
> notes I use for teaching while leaving the handouts a smaller doc for
> those in the class to take their own notes from.
>
> I don't use beamer as the handouts tend to be 6-8 pages of 'normal' text
> as it is and my teaching notes are usually far larger.  I don't want to
> manipulate a stack of paper while teaching.
>
>
>
>> For me, notes are rather important: in addition to reminding me what to
>> say, they are essentially a second level to the presentation (and I
>> always include them in any handouts). Somebody who has a vague interest
>> in the subject can look at the slides. If they want to go into it a bit
>> deeper, they can look at the notes.
>>
>
> My case is similar but I don't 'expose' my teaching notes to the
> students for a variety of reasons.
>
>
>> ...
>>
>> So unless somebody comes up with a really good idea, delaying any
>> org-specific implementation might be the best way forward: it would save
>> wear-and-tear on Carsten, allow the rest of us to catch up and gather
>> some experience and perhaps come up with better ideas on how to handle
>> this.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
> I guess my request is similar to what has been discussed above in that I
> would *very* much like to maintain handouts and teaching material in the
> same file and then export it to two different files as necessary.  This
> would make my job a lot easier to manage.  I could decide which tables,
> figures, text, etc are common to both docs and which are just for me and
> everything happens automatically behind the scenes.
>
> Beamer output is not critical for me (or even necessarily desired) right
> now but I would like a way of marking some text for 'limited' export.
> Using a special notation is not a problem if it gives me the ability to
> maintain a single document that I can export to two different LaTeX/PDF
> docs.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

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_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-10 21:00               ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2009-12-10 22:02                 ` Mark Elston
  2009-12-10 23:31                   ` Nick Dokos
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Mark Elston @ 2009-12-10 22:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Org Mode

Thomas S. Dye wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Mark Elston wrote:
> 
>> I have been following this discussion with some interest as it may
>> provide the basis for something I am interested in doing as well.
>> I hope my discussion doesn't muddy the waters too much...
>>
>> Nick Dokos wrote:
>>> Darlan Cavalcante Moreira <darcamo@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:darcamo@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> At Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:09:33 +0100,
>>>> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:carsten.dominik@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>> I still don't have any better ideas than this to represent notes
>>>>> in Org for beamer presentations.  Just writing \noe{...} as you
>>>>> suggest will certainly work - the disadvantage is that this does
>>>>> not make a lot of sense when exporting to other formats.
>>>>>
>>>>> One option would be to turn all those notes into footnotes
>>>>> for other export.....
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd really be interested to get more input on this issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Carsten
>>>>>
>>>> Maybe it is better to simple ignore notes when exporting to other 
>>>> formats.
>>>>
>>>> For me notes in beamer are useful only to give me an idea of what I 
>>>> intend to
>>>> talk about in the presentation and help me training for the 
>>>> presentation. They
>>>> are not really "part of the final exported document" and sometimes I 
>>>> put a lot
>>>> of information in them (possible in a different language from the
>>>> presentation).
>>>>
>>>> Also, the contents in notes can be anything such as a table or a 
>>>> figure. This
>>>> obviously would result in an error if or if org tried to put them into a
>>>> footnote when exporting to other formats.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, the question is has anyone here any interest in notes 
>>>> when exporting
>>>> to other formats or do they only make sense when exporting to beamer?
>>>>
>>
>> My case is similar.  I teach a class each week and, so far, have created
>> two documents; a set of handouts and my notes for teaching.  Generally
>> these documents start from the same original and I modify and expand the
>> notes I use for teaching while leaving the handouts a smaller doc for
>> those in the class to take their own notes from.
>>
>> I don't use beamer as the handouts tend to be 6-8 pages of 'normal' text
>> as it is and my teaching notes are usually far larger.  I don't want to
>> manipulate a stack of paper while teaching.
>>
>>> For me, notes are rather important: in addition to reminding me what to
>>> say, they are essentially a second level to the presentation (and I
>>> always include them in any handouts). Somebody who has a vague interest
>>> in the subject can look at the slides. If they want to go into it a bit
>>> deeper, they can look at the notes.
>>
>> My case is similar but I don't 'expose' my teaching notes to the
>> students for a variety of reasons.
>>
>>> ...
>>> So unless somebody comes up with a really good idea, delaying any
>>> org-specific implementation might be the best way forward: it would save
>>> wear-and-tear on Carsten, allow the rest of us to catch up and gather
>>> some experience and perhaps come up with better ideas on how to handle
>>> this.
>>> Nick
>>
>> I guess my request is similar to what has been discussed above in that I
>> would *very* much like to maintain handouts and teaching material in the
>> same file and then export it to two different files as necessary.  This
>> would make my job a lot easier to manage.  I could decide which tables,
>> figures, text, etc are common to both docs and which are just for me and
>> everything happens automatically behind the scenes.
>>
>> Beamer output is not critical for me (or even necessarily desired) right
>> now but I would like a way of marking some text for 'limited' export.
>> Using a special notation is not a problem if it gives me the ability to
>> maintain a single document that I can export to two different LaTeX/PDF
>> docs.
>>
>> Mark
> 
> I use Org-babel to accomplish this.  Its literate programming facility lets you define a block of text and re-use it wherever you like.  You can "tangle" 
> as many .tex files as you want from a single Org-mode document.
> 
> You can find some examples here:
> 
> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/org-babel-uses.php
> 

I had been avoiding the literate programming aspects of org-babel since
my previous experience with literate programming was less than
satisfying.  However, this use may be just what the doctor ordered.
I will have to give it a look.

Mark

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-10 22:02                 ` Mark Elston
@ 2009-12-10 23:31                   ` Nick Dokos
  2009-12-10 23:49                     ` Mark Elston
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2009-12-10 23:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mark Elston; +Cc: Org Mode

Mark Elston <m_elston@comcast.net> wrote:

> Thomas S. Dye wrote:
> >
> > On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Mark Elston wrote:
> >
> >  ...
> >> My case is similar.  I teach a class each week and, so far, have created
> >> two documents; a set of handouts and my notes for teaching.  Generally
> >> these documents start from the same original and I modify and expand the
> >> notes I use for teaching while leaving the handouts a smaller doc for
> >> those in the class to take their own notes from.
> >>
> >> I don't use beamer as the handouts tend to be 6-8 pages of 'normal' text
> >> as it is and my teaching notes are usually far larger.  I don't want to
> >> manipulate a stack of paper while teaching.
>
> I use Org-babel to accomplish this.  Its literate programming
> facility lets you define a block of text and re-use it wherever you
> like.  You can "tangle" as many .tex files as you want from a single
> Org-mode document.
>
> You can find some examples here:
>
> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/org-babel-uses.php

IIUC, another way to go (possibly much simpler than org-babel[1]) is to use
selective export:

     #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:   Tags that select a tree for export
     #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:  Tags that exclude a tree from export

Mark the handout and notes sections with different tags and export
the document twice, once with the handout tag selected and once
with the notes tag selected.

HTH,
Nick

[1] NB: org-babel is another area that I know very little about, but
hope to learn more about during vacation (although by this time, the
todo list for vacation has expanded sufficiently to occupy several
lifetimes...)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-10 23:31                   ` Nick Dokos
@ 2009-12-10 23:49                     ` Mark Elston
  2009-12-11  8:05                       ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Mark Elston @ 2009-12-10 23:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Org Mode

Nick Dokos wrote:
> 
> IIUC, another way to go (possibly much simpler than org-babel[1]) is to use
> selective export:
> 
>      #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:   Tags that select a tree for export
>      #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:  Tags that exclude a tree from export
> 
> Mark the handout and notes sections with different tags and export
> the document twice, once with the handout tag selected and once
> with the notes tag selected.
> 

This sounds like it would work as well, though it probably results
in a very different org-file organization to make it work.  I will
have to play around with the various options to see what works best
for me.

Thanks.

> HTH,
> Nick
> 
> [1] NB: org-babel is another area that I know very little about, but
> hope to learn more about during vacation (although by this time, the
> todo list for vacation has expanded sufficiently to occupy several
> lifetimes...)
> 

Hah!  I know exactly what you mean...

Mark

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-10 23:49                     ` Mark Elston
@ 2009-12-11  8:05                       ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-12-21 15:50                         ` Thomas S. Dye
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-12-11  8:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mark Elston; +Cc: Org Mode

Hi everyone,

the current state of affairs in beamer support is now in
the master branch of the git repo.

My little draft documentation is now at

    http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-beamer.php

But it is really limited and I am hoping very much that someone
will turn this into something useful!

- Carsten


On Dec 11, 2009, at 12:49 AM, Mark Elston wrote:

> Nick Dokos wrote:
>> IIUC, another way to go (possibly much simpler than org-babel[1])  
>> is to use
>> selective export:
>>     #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:   Tags that select a tree for export
>>     #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:  Tags that exclude a tree from export
>> Mark the handout and notes sections with different tags and export
>> the document twice, once with the handout tag selected and once
>> with the notes tag selected.
>
> This sounds like it would work as well, though it probably results
> in a very different org-file organization to make it work.  I will
> have to play around with the various options to see what works best
> for me.
>
> Thanks.
>
>> HTH,
>> Nick
>> [1] NB: org-babel is another area that I know very little about, but
>> hope to learn more about during vacation (although by this time, the
>> todo list for vacation has expanded sufficiently to occupy several
>> lifetimes...)
>
> Hah!  I know exactly what you mean...
>
> Mark
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-10 16:09       ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-12-10 16:50         ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
@ 2009-12-15 15:51         ` Eric S Fraga
  2009-12-15 19:07           ` Daniel Martins
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2009-12-15 15:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: org-mode mailing list

At Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:09:33 +0100,
Carsten Dominik wrote:
> 

[...]

> One option would be to turn all those notes into footnotes
> for other export.....

Carsten,

I wonder if simply turning this on its head wouldn't be a good
solution?  By this I mean to use org-mode footnotes to represent
beamer notes (at least in my view footnotes make no sense in
presentations).  In export, footnotes are translated to notes for
beamer but are treated as usual for all other export targets.

A thought...

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-15 15:51         ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2009-12-15 19:07           ` Daniel Martins
  2009-12-15 19:49             ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Martins @ 2009-12-15 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: e.fraga; +Cc: org-mode mailing list, Carsten Dominik

Good idea Eric (footnotes -> \notes)

The only minor problem is number of lines per footnote/note.

When I make notes on Bemaer in general my notes have more than one line.

AFAIK footnotes in org are single lines or you have to separate them
with \par which is not so good.

Daniel

2009/12/15 Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>:
> At Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:09:33 +0100,
> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>
>
> [...]
>
>> One option would be to turn all those notes into footnotes
>> for other export.....
>
> Carsten,
>
> I wonder if simply turning this on its head wouldn't be a good
> solution?  By this I mean to use org-mode footnotes to represent
> beamer notes (at least in my view footnotes make no sense in
> presentations).  In export, footnotes are translated to notes for
> beamer but are treated as usual for all other export targets.
>
> A thought...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-15 19:07           ` Daniel Martins
@ 2009-12-15 19:49             ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  2009-12-18 11:06               ` Adam Spiers
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira @ 2009-12-15 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Daniel Martins; +Cc: Carsten Dominik, org-mode mailing list


I also thought about suggesting this approach, but the problem is that footnotes
and "beamer notes" are really two different things. Beamer notes can be anything
such as tables, figures, several lines of text (with itemize), display
equations, etc.. At least for me, these examples of beamer notes are common and
if org-mode used standard footnotes as the way to enter notes in beamer then I
wouldn't be able to export to standard latex most of the times.

In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be in a presentation
they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in some cases. If
org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from now someone
would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a standard footnote when
exporting to beamer.

- Darlan Cavalcante


At Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:07:45 -0200,
Daniel Martins <danielemc@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Good idea Eric (footnotes -> \notes)
> 
> The only minor problem is number of lines per footnote/note.
> 
> When I make notes on Bemaer in general my notes have more than one line.
> 
> AFAIK footnotes in org are single lines or you have to separate them
> with \par which is not so good.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 2009/12/15 Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>:
> > At Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:09:33 +0100,
> > Carsten Dominik wrote:
> >>
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >> One option would be to turn all those notes into footnotes
> >> for other export.....
> >
> > Carsten,
> >
> > I wonder if simply turning this on its head wouldn't be a good
> > solution?  By this I mean to use org-mode footnotes to represent
> > beamer notes (at least in my view footnotes make no sense in
> > presentations).  In export, footnotes are translated to notes for
> > beamer but are treated as usual for all other export targets.
> >
> > A thought...
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-15 19:49             ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
@ 2009-12-18 11:06               ` Adam Spiers
       [not found]                 ` <orgmode@adamspiers.org>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Adam Spiers @ 2009-12-18 11:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be in a presentation
> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in some cases. If
> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from now someone
> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a standard footnote when
> exporting to beamer.

I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of footnotes
in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for quotations,
data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not used
during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.

Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming "X is
much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how the
results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but you
would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the slides and
visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the results
are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the URL was
too small to be legible from the back of the room.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
       [not found]                 ` <orgmode@adamspiers.org>
@ 2009-12-18 15:06                   ` Nick Dokos
  2009-12-18 21:01                     ` Daniel Martins
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2009-12-18 15:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
> > In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be in a presentation
> > they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in some cases. If
> > org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from now someone
> > would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a standard footnote when
> > exporting to beamer.
> 
> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of footnotes
> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for quotations,
> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not used
> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
> 
I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the handout
includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does that,
although they *should* :-) ).

In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level lists,
single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that generalities like
that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough cause.

> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming "X is
> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how the
> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but you
> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the slides and
> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the results
> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the URL was
> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
> 
> 

How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of footnote,
let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a footnote in
all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the frame
and pnotes end up in the notes.

Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this makes it
sound, but who knows?[1]

Thanks,
Nick

[1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-18 15:06                   ` Nick Dokos
@ 2009-12-18 21:01                     ` Daniel Martins
  2009-12-19 22:33                       ` Thomas S. Dye
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Martins @ 2009-12-18 21:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: nicholas.dokos; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

\pnote could be an option

Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes

* section
** subsection
*** frame
etc


************** notes

(I don't know how many *'s are needed)

maybe we can set a number / variable

like

org-beamer-frame-level

we could create

org-beamer-notes-level

Daniel


2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
>> > In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be in a presentation
>> > they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in some cases. If
>> > org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from now someone
>> > would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a standard footnote when
>> > exporting to beamer.
>>
>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of footnotes
>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for quotations,
>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not used
>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
>>
> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the handout
> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does that,
> although they *should* :-) ).
>
> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level lists,
> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that generalities like
> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough cause.
>
>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming "X is
>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how the
>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but you
>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the slides and
>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the results
>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the URL was
>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
>>
>>
>
> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of footnote,
> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a footnote in
> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the frame
> and pnotes end up in the notes.
>
> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this makes it
> sound, but who knows?[1]
>
> Thanks,
> Nick
>
> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-18 21:01                     ` Daniel Martins
@ 2009-12-19 22:33                       ` Thomas S. Dye
  2009-12-20 15:08                         ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2009-12-19 22:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Daniel Martins; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi Daniel,

On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:

> \pnote could be an option
>
> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
>
> * section
> ** subsection
> *** frame
> etc
>
>
> ************** notes
>
> (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
>
> maybe we can set a number / variable
>
> like
>
> org-beamer-frame-level
>
> we could create
>
> org-beamer-notes-level
>
> Daniel
>
>
> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
>> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante  
>>> Moreira wrote:
>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be in a  
>>>> presentation
>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in  
>>>> some cases. If
>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from  
>>>> now someone
>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a standard  
>>>> footnote when
>>>> exporting to beamer.
>>>
>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of  
>>> footnotes
>>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for quotations,
>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not used
>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
>>>
>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the  
>> handout
>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does  
>> that,
>> although they *should* :-) ).
>>
>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level lists,
>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that generalities  
>> like
>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough  
>> cause.
>>
>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming "X is
>>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how the
>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but you
>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the slides  
>>> and
>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the  
>>> results
>>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the URL  
>>> was
>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of footnote,
>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a  
>> footnote in
>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the frame
>> and pnotes end up in the notes.
>>
>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this  
>> makes it
>> sound, but who knows?[1]
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nick
>>
>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
>>

FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between beamer  
and LaTeX very well.

In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken  
presentation of a LaTeX article.

Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX sectioning  
commands, with some themes that automatically display down to  
subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level  
structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their  
(often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the  
photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in the  
LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes also  
map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.

This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my perspective  
maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below the  
last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems natural  
to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have big  
chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a beamer  
presentation.

I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of view of  
implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode Lisp  
code owing to my own illiteracy.

All the best,
Tom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-19 22:33                       ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2009-12-20 15:08                         ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  2010-01-03 19:07                           ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira @ 2009-12-20 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Thomas S. Dye; +Cc: emacs-orgmode


I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the \note command is
used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in the next
"notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note commands in
the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a headline below the
frame headline seems to be a good approach.

Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other formats one
could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already available feature of
not exporting headlines with a given tag.

- Darlan Cavalcante Moreira

At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
"Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:
> 
> > \pnote could be an option
> >
> > Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
> >
> > * section
> > ** subsection
> > *** frame
> > etc
> >
> >
> > ************** notes
> >
> > (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
> >
> > maybe we can set a number / variable
> >
> > like
> >
> > org-beamer-frame-level
> >
> > we could create
> >
> > org-beamer-notes-level
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> >
> > 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
> >> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante  
> >>> Moreira wrote:
> >>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be in a  
> >>>> presentation
> >>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in  
> >>>> some cases. If
> >>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from  
> >>>> now someone
> >>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a standard  
> >>>> footnote when
> >>>> exporting to beamer.
> >>>
> >>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of  
> >>> footnotes
> >>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for quotations,
> >>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not used
> >>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
> >>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
> >>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
> >>>
> >> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the  
> >> handout
> >> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does  
> >> that,
> >> although they *should* :-) ).
> >>
> >> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level lists,
> >> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that generalities  
> >> like
> >> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough  
> >> cause.
> >>
> >>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming "X is
> >>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how the
> >>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but you
> >>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
> >>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the slides  
> >>> and
> >>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the  
> >>> results
> >>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the URL  
> >>> was
> >>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of footnote,
> >> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a  
> >> footnote in
> >> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the frame
> >> and pnotes end up in the notes.
> >>
> >> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this  
> >> makes it
> >> sound, but who knows?[1]
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Nick
> >>
> >> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
> >>
> 
> FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between beamer  
> and LaTeX very well.
> 
> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken  
> presentation of a LaTeX article.
> 
> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX sectioning  
> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to  
> subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level  
> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their  
> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the  
> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in the  
> LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes also  
> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.
> 
> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my perspective  
> maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below the  
> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems natural  
> to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have big  
> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a beamer  
> presentation.
> 
> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of view of  
> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode Lisp  
> code owing to my own illiteracy.
> 
> All the best,
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-11  8:05                       ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-12-21 15:50                         ` Thomas S. Dye
  2009-12-21 22:28                           ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2009-12-21 15:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: Org Mode

Aloha Carsten,

I've had a chance to look at your first draft of beamer support.   
You've done a terrific job.  So much of the draft is right that it  
helps to focus thoughts on the parts that are candidates for  
discussion and possible change.

Along those lines, I don't think using headlines for  
\begin{columns} ... \end{columns} works very well.  I think headlines  
should be reserved for sectioning, frames, elements of frames (blocks  
and friends), and notes.  Once a headline level has been designated  
for frames (n), then headline n+1 becomes an element of the frame, and  
headline n+2 becomes notes for the frame (following Daniel Martins'  
lead).

To my mind, columns are attributes of a frame, so they might better be  
handled as a property of the frame.  Frame elements are specifically  
assigned to a column, or not, using a property.

Roughly, this would yield the following syntax, which ought to export  
fairly cleanly with the HTML and LaTeX exporters.

#+BEAMER_FRAME_LEVEL 2

* Section 1
** Frame 1
	:PROPERTIES:
	:FRAME_COLS: 2
	:END:
*** Element 1   :block:
	:PROPERTIES:
	:IN_COL: 1
	:END:
	- Item 1
	- Item 2
**** Notes about Element 1 block
	- Keyed to Item 1
	- Keyed to Item 2
*** Element 2   :block:
	:PROPERTIES:
	:IN_COL: 2
	:END:
	- Item 3
	- Item 4
*** Element 3
	This element spans two columns.  The headline doesn't appear on the  
slide.
*** Element 4  (headline doesn't appear on the slide because not a  
block or friend)
	:PROPERTIES:
	:IN_COL: 1
	:END:
	- Item 5
	- Item 6
** Frame 2
  *** Element 1
	- Item 1
	- Item 2
   **** Notes
	- Note for item 1
	- Note for item 2

Thanks again for drafting what should be a very useful addition to the  
already insanely useful org-mode.

HTH,
Tom

On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:05 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> the current state of affairs in beamer support is now in
> the master branch of the git repo.
>
> My little draft documentation is now at
>
>   http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-beamer.php
>
> But it is really limited and I am hoping very much that someone
> will turn this into something useful!
>
> - Carsten
>
>
> On Dec 11, 2009, at 12:49 AM, Mark Elston wrote:
>
>> Nick Dokos wrote:
>>> IIUC, another way to go (possibly much simpler than org-babel[1])  
>>> is to use
>>> selective export:
>>>    #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:   Tags that select a tree for export
>>>    #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:  Tags that exclude a tree from export
>>> Mark the handout and notes sections with different tags and export
>>> the document twice, once with the handout tag selected and once
>>> with the notes tag selected.
>>
>> This sounds like it would work as well, though it probably results
>> in a very different org-file organization to make it work.  I will
>> have to play around with the various options to see what works best
>> for me.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>> HTH,
>>> Nick
>>> [1] NB: org-babel is another area that I know very little about, but
>>> hope to learn more about during vacation (although by this time, the
>>> todo list for vacation has expanded sufficiently to occupy several
>>> lifetimes...)
>>
>> Hah!  I know exactly what you mean...
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-21 15:50                         ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2009-12-21 22:28                           ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-12-21 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Thomas S. Dye; +Cc: Org Mode

Hi Thomas,


On Dec 21, 2009, at 4:50 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:

> Aloha Carsten,
>
> I've had a chance to look at your first draft of beamer support.   
> You've done a terrific job.  So much of the draft is right that it  
> helps to focus thoughts on the parts that are candidates for  
> discussion and possible change.

Thanks for the very positive feedback!

>
> Along those lines, I don't think using headlines for  
> \begin{columns} ... \end{columns} works very well.  I think  
> headlines should be reserved for sectioning, frames, elements of  
> frames (blocks and friends), and notes.  Once a headline level has  
> been designated for frames (n), then headline n+1 becomes an element  
> of the frame, and headline n+2 becomes notes for the frame  
> (following Daniel Martins' lead).

Yes, this is another possibility in the notes-contest - I consider
that discussion as still running and not settled.

>
> To my mind, columns are attributes of a frame, so they might better  
> be handled as a property of the frame.  Frame elements are  
> specifically assigned to a column, or not, using a property.

You might or might not have noticed that the current
implementation is already one iteration further than the
first draft, and I have already followed a path which does
not encourage the use of special levels for the columns
environment.  Instead, it marks elements that *start* a new column.

You proposal is different, but has the disadvantage that each element
has to be labeled as being part of a column.  What is the advantage
of this approach?  Maybe that it is possible to have an element that is
*after* the columns, spanning again the whole frame, before another
element starts a new columns environment.

I can see that this
is desirable, but maybe it would be better to mark column starts
as I am doing now, and then maybe mar an element that is outside
of the column.  The reason why this approach seems (to me!) better is
that it is the shorter path from an outline to frames with columns.
So on  a slide with 10 items, you'd need to mark all ten, while I
need to mark only two in order to distribute the items over two
columns.

- Carsten

P.S. I am also not entirely sure if I understand how exactly
your setup below should look in LaTeX - maybe you can also show
the desired LaTeX output?

>
> Roughly, this would yield the following syntax, which ought to  
> export fairly cleanly with the HTML and LaTeX exporters.
>
> #+BEAMER_FRAME_LEVEL 2
>
> * Section 1
> ** Frame 1
> 	:PROPERTIES:
> 	:FRAME_COLS: 2
> 	:END:
> *** Element 1   :block:
> 	:PROPERTIES:
> 	:IN_COL: 1
> 	:END:
> 	- Item 1
> 	- Item 2
> **** Notes about Element 1 block
> 	- Keyed to Item 1
> 	- Keyed to Item 2
> *** Element 2   :block:
> 	:PROPERTIES:
> 	:IN_COL: 2
> 	:END:
> 	- Item 3
> 	- Item 4
> *** Element 3
> 	This element spans two columns.  The headline doesn't appear on the  
> slide.
> *** Element 4  (headline doesn't appear on the slide because not a  
> block or friend)
> 	:PROPERTIES:
> 	:IN_COL: 1
> 	:END:
> 	- Item 5
> 	- Item 6
> ** Frame 2
> *** Element 1
> 	- Item 1
> 	- Item 2
>  **** Notes
> 	- Note for item 1
> 	- Note for item 2
>
> Thanks again for drafting what should be a very useful addition to  
> the already insanely useful org-mode.
>
> HTH,
> Tom
>
> On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:05 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> the current state of affairs in beamer support is now in
>> the master branch of the git repo.
>>
>> My little draft documentation is now at
>>
>>  http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-beamer.php
>>
>> But it is really limited and I am hoping very much that someone
>> will turn this into something useful!
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>
>> On Dec 11, 2009, at 12:49 AM, Mark Elston wrote:
>>
>>> Nick Dokos wrote:
>>>> IIUC, another way to go (possibly much simpler than org-babel[1])  
>>>> is to use
>>>> selective export:
>>>>   #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:   Tags that select a tree for export
>>>>   #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:  Tags that exclude a tree from export
>>>> Mark the handout and notes sections with different tags and export
>>>> the document twice, once with the handout tag selected and once
>>>> with the notes tag selected.
>>>
>>> This sounds like it would work as well, though it probably results
>>> in a very different org-file organization to make it work.  I will
>>> have to play around with the various options to see what works best
>>> for me.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>> Nick
>>>> [1] NB: org-babel is another area that I know very little about,  
>>>> but
>>>> hope to learn more about during vacation (although by this time,  
>>>> the
>>>> todo list for vacation has expanded sufficiently to occupy several
>>>> lifetimes...)
>>>
>>> Hah!  I know exactly what you mean...
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
@ 2009-12-22  0:11 Thomas S. Dye
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2009-12-22  0:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Org Mode


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6455 bytes --]

Hi Carsten,

On Dec 21, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
...
>> I've had a chance to look at your first draft of beamer support.   
>> You've done a terrific job.  So much of the draft is right that it  
>> helps to focus thoughts on the parts that are candidates for  
>> discussion and possible change.
>
> Thanks for the very positive feedback!

You're welcome.  You certainly deserve it!

>>
>> Along those lines, I don't think using headlines for  
>> \begin{columns} ... \end{columns} works very well.  I think  
>> headlines should be reserved for sectioning, frames, elements of  
>> frames (blocks and friends), and notes.  Once a headline level has  
>> been designated for frames (n), then headline n+1 becomes an  
>> element of the frame, and headline n+2 becomes notes for the frame  
>> (following Daniel Martins' lead).
>
> Yes, this is another possibility in the notes-contest - I consider
> that discussion as still running and not settled.
>

>>
>> To my mind, columns are attributes of a frame, so they might better  
>> be handled as a property of the frame.  Frame elements are  
>> specifically assigned to a column, or not, using a property.
>
> You might or might not have noticed that the current
> implementation is already one iteration further than the
> first draft, and I have already followed a path which does
> not encourage the use of special levels for the columns
> environment.  Instead, it marks elements that *start* a new column.

Yes, I did see this but was concerned about not being able to close  
the columns environment to insert full-width material, a limitation  
noted in the draft manual.

> You proposal is different, but has the disadvantage that each element
> has to be labeled as being part of a column.  What is the advantage
> of this approach?  Maybe that it is possible to have an element that  
> is
> *after* the columns, spanning again the whole frame, before another
> element starts a new columns environment.

Yes, this is what I was hoping to achieve.

> I can see that this
> is desirable, but maybe it would be better to mark column starts
> as I am doing now, and then maybe mar an element that is outside
> of the column.

If it is possible to mark an element that closes an open columns  
environment, leaving the frame open for elements that fill the full  
width, and possibly for a new columns environment, then your approach  
to columns without additional outline structure would achieve what I  
was trying to get at.

> The reason why this approach seems (to me!) better is
> that it is the shorter path from an outline to frames with columns.
> So on  a slide with 10 items, you'd need to mark all ten, while I
> need to mark only two in order to distribute the items over two
> columns.

Minimizing the number of keystrokes is important, especially among org- 
mode people :)  Your approach, modified as we've discussed above, has  
other advantages, too, including more flexibility in the layout.

I'm pleased to learn that the limitation about full width elements  
after columns noted in the draft manual can be overcome, and look  
forward to working with the next draft.

Thanks again for all that you do.

Tom

> - Carsten
>
> P.S. I am also not entirely sure if I understand how exactly
> your setup below should look in LaTeX - maybe you can also show
> the desired LaTeX output?
>
>>
>> Roughly, this would yield the following syntax, which ought to  
>> export fairly cleanly with the HTML and LaTeX exporters.
>>
>> #+BEAMER_FRAME_LEVEL 2
>>
>> * Section 1
>> ** Frame 1
>> 	:PROPERTIES:
>> 	:FRAME_COLS: 2
>> 	:END:
>> *** Element 1   :block:
>> 	:PROPERTIES:
>> 	:IN_COL: 1
>> 	:END:
>> 	- Item 1
>> 	- Item 2
>> **** Notes about Element 1 block
>> 	- Keyed to Item 1
>> 	- Keyed to Item 2
>> *** Element 2   :block:
>> 	:PROPERTIES:
>> 	:IN_COL: 2
>> 	:END:
>> 	- Item 3
>> 	- Item 4
>> *** Element 3
>> 	This element spans two columns.  The headline doesn't appear on  
>> the slide.
>> *** Element 4  (headline doesn't appear on the slide because not a  
>> block or friend)
>> 	:PROPERTIES:
>> 	:IN_COL: 1
>> 	:END:
>> 	- Item 5
>> 	- Item 6
>> ** Frame 2
>> *** Element 1
>> 	- Item 1
>> 	- Item 2
>> **** Notes
>> 	- Note for item 1
>> 	- Note for item 2
>>
>> Thanks again for drafting what should be a very useful addition to  
>> the already insanely useful org-mode.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Tom
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:05 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> the current state of affairs in beamer support is now in
>>> the master branch of the git repo.
>>>
>>> My little draft documentation is now at
>>>
>>> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-beamer.php
>>>
>>> But it is really limited and I am hoping very much that someone
>>> will turn this into something useful!
>>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 11, 2009, at 12:49 AM, Mark Elston wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nick Dokos wrote:
>>>>> IIUC, another way to go (possibly much simpler than org- 
>>>>> babel[1]) is to use
>>>>> selective export:
>>>>>  #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:   Tags that select a tree for export
>>>>>  #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:  Tags that exclude a tree from export
>>>>> Mark the handout and notes sections with different tags and export
>>>>> the document twice, once with the handout tag selected and once
>>>>> with the notes tag selected.
>>>>
>>>> This sounds like it would work as well, though it probably results
>>>> in a very different org-file organization to make it work.  I will
>>>> have to play around with the various options to see what works best
>>>> for me.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>> HTH,
>>>>> Nick
>>>>> [1] NB: org-babel is another area that I know very little about,  
>>>>> but
>>>>> hope to learn more about during vacation (although by this time,  
>>>>> the
>>>>> todo list for vacation has expanded sufficiently to occupy several
>>>>> lifetimes...)
>>>>
>>>> Hah!  I know exactly what you mean...
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>

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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2009-12-20 15:08                         ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
@ 2010-01-03 19:07                           ` Carsten Dominik
  2010-01-03 23:22                             ` Russell Adams
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-01-03 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi everyone,

after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't
think that this is, in the end, the right solution.

Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with property  
BNOTE
or so as the sources of notes?

Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note"
in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes.  This would be easy to  
turn
on with the special editing code we already have, would automatically
be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible.

Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for
such notes, and give the biggest flexibility.

If we do this, then the following problem arises:  An outline
node always has a headline and content.  What should be do
with the headline?  Should be throw it away?  Or just make it
part of the note text?  Maybe that would make the most sense.

Input is again welcome!

- Carsten

On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:

>
> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the \note  
> command is
> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in  
> the next
> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note  
> commands in
> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a  
> headline below the
> frame headline seems to be a good approach.
>
> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other  
> formats one
> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already  
> available feature of
> not exporting headlines with a given tag.
>
> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>
> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
> "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Daniel,
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:
>>
>>> \pnote could be an option
>>>
>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
>>>
>>> * section
>>> ** subsection
>>> *** frame
>>> etc
>>>
>>>
>>> ************** notes
>>>
>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
>>>
>>> maybe we can set a number / variable
>>>
>>> like
>>>
>>> org-beamer-frame-level
>>>
>>> we could create
>>>
>>> org-beamer-notes-level
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
>>>> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante
>>>>> Moreira wrote:
>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be in a
>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in
>>>>>> some cases. If
>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from
>>>>>> now someone
>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a standard
>>>>>> footnote when
>>>>>> exporting to beamer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of
>>>>> footnotes
>>>>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for  
>>>>> quotations,
>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not used
>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
>>>>>
>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the
>>>> handout
>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does
>>>> that,
>>>> although they *should* :-) ).
>>>>
>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level  
>>>> lists,
>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that generalities
>>>> like
>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough
>>>> cause.
>>>>
>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming "X is
>>>>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how the
>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but  
>>>>> you
>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the slides
>>>>> and
>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the
>>>>> results
>>>>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the URL
>>>>> was
>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of  
>>>> footnote,
>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a
>>>> footnote in
>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the  
>>>> frame
>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this
>>>> makes it
>>>> sound, but who knows?[1]
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
>>>>
>>
>> FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between beamer
>> and LaTeX very well.
>>
>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken
>> presentation of a LaTeX article.
>>
>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX sectioning
>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to
>> subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level
>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their
>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the
>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in the
>> LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes  
>> also
>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.
>>
>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my  
>> perspective
>> maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below the
>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems natural
>> to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have big
>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a beamer
>> presentation.
>>
>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of view of
>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode Lisp
>> code owing to my own illiteracy.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2010-01-03 19:07                           ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2010-01-03 23:22                             ` Russell Adams
  2010-01-04  9:07                               ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Russell Adams @ 2010-01-03 23:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Carsten,

I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about
something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from
the slide?

** Slide

 - Slide content
 - Slide content

#+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE
Here are the class notes for this slide...

#+END_BEAMER_NOTE

Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late...

Thanks.


On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't
> think that this is, in the end, the right solution.
>
> Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with property  
> BNOTE
> or so as the sources of notes?
>
> Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note"
> in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes.  This would be easy to  
> turn
> on with the special editing code we already have, would automatically
> be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible.
>
> Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for
> such notes, and give the biggest flexibility.
>
> If we do this, then the following problem arises:  An outline
> node always has a headline and content.  What should be do
> with the headline?  Should be throw it away?  Or just make it
> part of the note text?  Maybe that would make the most sense.
>
> Input is again welcome!
>
> - Carsten
>
> On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
>
>>
>> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the \note  
>> command is
>> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in the 
>> next
>> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note  
>> commands in
>> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a headline 
>> below the
>> frame headline seems to be a good approach.
>>
>> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other  
>> formats one
>> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already available 
>> feature of
>> not exporting headlines with a given tag.
>>
>> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>>
>> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
>> "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:
>>>
>>>> \pnote could be an option
>>>>
>>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
>>>>
>>>> * section
>>>> ** subsection
>>>> *** frame
>>>> etc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ************** notes
>>>>
>>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
>>>>
>>>> maybe we can set a number / variable
>>>>
>>>> like
>>>>
>>>> org-beamer-frame-level
>>>>
>>>> we could create
>>>>
>>>> org-beamer-notes-level
>>>>
>>>> Daniel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
>>>>> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante
>>>>>> Moreira wrote:
>>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be in a
>>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in
>>>>>>> some cases. If
>>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from
>>>>>>> now someone
>>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a standard
>>>>>>> footnote when
>>>>>>> exporting to beamer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of
>>>>>> footnotes
>>>>>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for  
>>>>>> quotations,
>>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not used
>>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
>>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
>>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the
>>>>> handout
>>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does
>>>>> that,
>>>>> although they *should* :-) ).
>>>>>
>>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level  
>>>>> lists,
>>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that generalities
>>>>> like
>>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough
>>>>> cause.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming "X is
>>>>>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how the
>>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
>>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the slides
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the
>>>>>> results
>>>>>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the URL
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of  
>>>>> footnote,
>>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a
>>>>> footnote in
>>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the  
>>>>> frame
>>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this
>>>>> makes it
>>>>> sound, but who knows?[1]
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
>>>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between beamer
>>> and LaTeX very well.
>>>
>>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken
>>> presentation of a LaTeX article.
>>>
>>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX sectioning
>>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to
>>> subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level
>>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their
>>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the
>>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in the
>>> LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes  
>>> also
>>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.
>>>
>>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my  
>>> perspective
>>> maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below the
>>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems natural
>>> to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have big
>>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a beamer
>>> presentation.
>>>
>>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of view of
>>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode Lisp
>>> code owing to my own illiteracy.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>


------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com

PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/

Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2010-01-03 23:22                             ` Russell Adams
@ 2010-01-04  9:07                               ` Carsten Dominik
  2010-01-04 14:49                                 ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-01-04  9:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Russell Adams; +Cc: emacs-orgmode


On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Russell Adams wrote:

> Carsten,
>
> I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about
> something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from
> the slide?
>
> ** Slide
>
> - Slide content
> - Slide content
>
> #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE
> Here are the class notes for this slide...
>
> #+END_BEAMER_NOTE


That is a possibility, but a lot of hassle to type for a short note.
Admittedly, properties are just as messy.

Maybe it should be

* BNOTE Here are the class notes for this slide...
   more stuff....

- Carsten
>
> Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late...
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't
>> think that this is, in the end, the right solution.
>>
>> Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with property
>> BNOTE
>> or so as the sources of notes?
>>
>> Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note"
>> in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes.  This would be easy to
>> turn
>> on with the special editing code we already have, would automatically
>> be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible.
>>
>> Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for
>> such notes, and give the biggest flexibility.
>>
>> If we do this, then the following problem arises:  An outline
>> node always has a headline and content.  What should be do
>> with the headline?  Should be throw it away?  Or just make it
>> part of the note text?  Maybe that would make the most sense.
>>
>> Input is again welcome!
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the \note
>>> command is
>>> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in  
>>> the
>>> next
>>> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note
>>> commands in
>>> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a  
>>> headline
>>> below the
>>> frame headline seems to be a good approach.
>>>
>>> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other
>>> formats one
>>> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already  
>>> available
>>> feature of
>>> not exporting headlines with a given tag.
>>>
>>> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>>>
>>> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
>>> "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> \pnote could be an option
>>>>>
>>>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
>>>>>
>>>>> * section
>>>>> ** subsection
>>>>> *** frame
>>>>> etc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************** notes
>>>>>
>>>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
>>>>>
>>>>> maybe we can set a number / variable
>>>>>
>>>>> like
>>>>>
>>>>> org-beamer-frame-level
>>>>>
>>>>> we could create
>>>>>
>>>>> org-beamer-notes-level
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
>>>>>> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante
>>>>>>> Moreira wrote:
>>>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be  
>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in
>>>>>>>> some cases. If
>>>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from
>>>>>>>> now someone
>>>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a  
>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>> footnote when
>>>>>>>> exporting to beamer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of
>>>>>>> footnotes
>>>>>>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for
>>>>>>> quotations,
>>>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not  
>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
>>>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
>>>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the
>>>>>> handout
>>>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does
>>>>>> that,
>>>>>> although they *should* :-) ).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level
>>>>>> lists,
>>>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that  
>>>>>> generalities
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough
>>>>>> cause.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming  
>>>>>>> "X is
>>>>>>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how  
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
>>>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the  
>>>>>>> slides
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the
>>>>>>> results
>>>>>>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the  
>>>>>>> URL
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of
>>>>>> footnote,
>>>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a
>>>>>> footnote in
>>>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the
>>>>>> frame
>>>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this
>>>>>> makes it
>>>>>> sound, but who knows?[1]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between  
>>>> beamer
>>>> and LaTeX very well.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken
>>>> presentation of a LaTeX article.
>>>>
>>>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX sectioning
>>>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to
>>>> subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level
>>>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their
>>>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the
>>>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in  
>>>> the
>>>> LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes
>>>> also
>>>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.
>>>>
>>>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my
>>>> perspective
>>>> maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below  
>>>> the
>>>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems  
>>>> natural
>>>> to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have  
>>>> big
>>>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a beamer
>>>> presentation.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of view of
>>>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode  
>>>> Lisp
>>>> code owing to my own illiteracy.
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com
>
> PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/
>
> Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2010-01-04  9:07                               ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2010-01-04 14:49                                 ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  2010-01-04 15:30                                   ` Carsten Dominik
  2010-01-05 17:21                                   ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira @ 2010-01-04 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: Russell Adams, emacs-orgmode


If a B_note tag is used in a headline for notes, it has the advantage that it
will be easier to see all the notes in the document (slides with notes). Also,
it would be easier to customize if the notes should be exported for other
formats other then beamer (since the user could simple exclude the B_note tag).

Regarding the headline itself, I think it would be better to ignore it. AFAIK it
is not possible to set a title for a note slide and using the headline as the
first note would limit what could be put in the first note.

On the other hand, if #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE ... #+END_BEAMER_NOTE is used instead
of a headline then org could advertise the use of yasnippets in the
documentation and maybe also provide a snippet for this. Therefore, writing the
notes environment wouldn't be much of a problem, but a way of avoiding exporting
beamer notes to other formats would have to be implemented.

- Darlan Cavalcante Moreira

At Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:07:10 +0100,
Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Russell Adams wrote:
> 
> > Carsten,
> >
> > I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about
> > something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from
> > the slide?
> >
> > ** Slide
> >
> > - Slide content
> > - Slide content
> >
> > #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE
> > Here are the class notes for this slide...
> >
> > #+END_BEAMER_NOTE
> 
> 
> That is a possibility, but a lot of hassle to type for a short note.
> Admittedly, properties are just as messy.
> 
> Maybe it should be
> 
> * BNOTE Here are the class notes for this slide...
>    more stuff....
> 
> - Carsten
> >
> > Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late...
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't
> >> think that this is, in the end, the right solution.
> >>
> >> Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with property
> >> BNOTE
> >> or so as the sources of notes?
> >>
> >> Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note"
> >> in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes.  This would be easy to
> >> turn
> >> on with the special editing code we already have, would automatically
> >> be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible.
> >>
> >> Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for
> >> such notes, and give the biggest flexibility.
> >>
> >> If we do this, then the following problem arises:  An outline
> >> node always has a headline and content.  What should be do
> >> with the headline?  Should be throw it away?  Or just make it
> >> part of the note text?  Maybe that would make the most sense.
> >>
> >> Input is again welcome!
> >>
> >> - Carsten
> >>
> >> On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the \note
> >>> command is
> >>> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in  
> >>> the
> >>> next
> >>> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note
> >>> commands in
> >>> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a  
> >>> headline
> >>> below the
> >>> frame headline seems to be a good approach.
> >>>
> >>> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other
> >>> formats one
> >>> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already  
> >>> available
> >>> feature of
> >>> not exporting headlines with a given tag.
> >>>
> >>> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
> >>>
> >>> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
> >>> "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Daniel,
> >>>>
> >>>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> \pnote could be an option
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
> >>>>>
> >>>>> * section
> >>>>> ** subsection
> >>>>> *** frame
> >>>>> etc
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ************** notes
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> maybe we can set a number / variable
> >>>>>
> >>>>> like
> >>>>>
> >>>>> org-beamer-frame-level
> >>>>>
> >>>>> we could create
> >>>>>
> >>>>> org-beamer-notes-level
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Daniel
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
> >>>>>> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante
> >>>>>>> Moreira wrote:
> >>>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be  
> >>>>>>>> in a
> >>>>>>>> presentation
> >>>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in
> >>>>>>>> some cases. If
> >>>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from
> >>>>>>>> now someone
> >>>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a  
> >>>>>>>> standard
> >>>>>>>> footnote when
> >>>>>>>> exporting to beamer.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of
> >>>>>>> footnotes
> >>>>>>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for
> >>>>>>> quotations,
> >>>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not  
> >>>>>>> used
> >>>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
> >>>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
> >>>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the
> >>>>>> handout
> >>>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does
> >>>>>> that,
> >>>>>> although they *should* :-) ).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level
> >>>>>> lists,
> >>>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that  
> >>>>>> generalities
> >>>>>> like
> >>>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough
> >>>>>> cause.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming  
> >>>>>>> "X is
> >>>>>>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how  
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
> >>>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the  
> >>>>>>> slides
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the
> >>>>>>> results
> >>>>>>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the  
> >>>>>>> URL
> >>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of
> >>>>>> footnote,
> >>>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a
> >>>>>> footnote in
> >>>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the
> >>>>>> frame
> >>>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this
> >>>>>> makes it
> >>>>>> sound, but who knows?[1]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Nick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between  
> >>>> beamer
> >>>> and LaTeX very well.
> >>>>
> >>>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken
> >>>> presentation of a LaTeX article.
> >>>>
> >>>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX sectioning
> >>>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to
> >>>> subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level
> >>>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their
> >>>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the
> >>>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in  
> >>>> the
> >>>> LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes
> >>>> also
> >>>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.
> >>>>
> >>>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my
> >>>> perspective
> >>>> maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below  
> >>>> the
> >>>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems  
> >>>> natural
> >>>> to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have  
> >>>> big
> >>>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a beamer
> >>>> presentation.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of view of
> >>>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode  
> >>>> Lisp
> >>>> code owing to my own illiteracy.
> >>>>
> >>>> All the best,
> >>>> Tom
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> >>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> >>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> >>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> >>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> >>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> >>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> >>
> >> - Carsten
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> >> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com
> >
> > PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/
> >
> > Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> 
> - Carsten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2010-01-04 14:49                                 ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
@ 2010-01-04 15:30                                   ` Carsten Dominik
  2010-01-05 17:21                                   ` Carsten Dominik
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-01-04 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira; +Cc: Russell Adams, emacs-orgmode


On Jan 4, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:

>
> If a B_note tag is used in a headline for notes, it has the  
> advantage that it
> will be easier to see all the notes in the document (slides with  
> notes). Also,
> it would be easier to customize if the notes should be exported for  
> other
> formats other then beamer (since the user could simple exclude the  
> B_note tag).
>
> Regarding the headline itself, I think it would be better to ignore  
> it. AFAIK it
> is not possible to set a title for a note slide and using the  
> headline as the
> first note would limit what could be put in the first note.


What I meant as an alternative would be to treat the headline as if it  
would be part of the normal text - which would make it easier to make  
simple, single-line notes.

So

    *** this is a note  :B_note:
	with more text


would actually translate to

  \note{This is a note
   with more text}

>
> On the other hand, if #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE ... #+END_BEAMER_NOTE is  
> used instead
> of a headline then org could advertise the use of yasnippets in the
> documentation and maybe also provide a snippet for this. Therefore,  
> writing the
> notes environment wouldn't be much of a problem, but a way of  
> avoiding exporting
> beamer notes to other formats would have to be implemented.


That would be simple.  Beamer support hooks into ORg in many places,  
and we could simple use one of those hooks to remove these for  
everything that is not bermer export.

But what would be the advantage of using the #+BEGIN.... construct?
Maybe that you could define it in the middle of the plain list....

- Carsten

>
> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>
> At Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:07:10 +0100,
> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Russell Adams wrote:
>>
>>> Carsten,
>>>
>>> I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about
>>> something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from
>>> the slide?
>>>
>>> ** Slide
>>>
>>> - Slide content
>>> - Slide content
>>>
>>> #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE
>>> Here are the class notes for this slide...
>>>
>>> #+END_BEAMER_NOTE
>>
>>
>> That is a possibility, but a lot of hassle to type for a short note.
>> Admittedly, properties are just as messy.
>>
>> Maybe it should be
>>
>> * BNOTE Here are the class notes for this slide...
>>   more stuff....
>>
>> - Carsten
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late...
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't
>>>> think that this is, in the end, the right solution.
>>>>
>>>> Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with  
>>>> property
>>>> BNOTE
>>>> or so as the sources of notes?
>>>>
>>>> Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note"
>>>> in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes.  This would be easy  
>>>> to
>>>> turn
>>>> on with the special editing code we already have, would  
>>>> automatically
>>>> be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible.
>>>>
>>>> Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for
>>>> such notes, and give the biggest flexibility.
>>>>
>>>> If we do this, then the following problem arises:  An outline
>>>> node always has a headline and content.  What should be do
>>>> with the headline?  Should be throw it away?  Or just make it
>>>> part of the note text?  Maybe that would make the most sense.
>>>>
>>>> Input is again welcome!
>>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the  
>>>>> \note
>>>>> command is
>>>>> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in
>>>>> the
>>>>> next
>>>>> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note
>>>>> commands in
>>>>> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a
>>>>> headline
>>>>> below the
>>>>> frame headline seems to be a good approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other
>>>>> formats one
>>>>> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already
>>>>> available
>>>>> feature of
>>>>> not exporting headlines with a given tag.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>>>>>
>>>>> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
>>>>> "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> \pnote could be an option
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * section
>>>>>>> ** subsection
>>>>>>> *** frame
>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************** notes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> maybe we can set a number / variable
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org-beamer-frame-level
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we could create
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org-beamer-notes-level
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
>>>>>>>> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante
>>>>>>>>> Moreira wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful  
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> some cases. If
>>>>>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months  
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> now someone
>>>>>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a
>>>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>>>> footnote when
>>>>>>>>>> exporting to beamer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of
>>>>>>>>> footnotes
>>>>>>>>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for
>>>>>>>>> quotations,
>>>>>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not
>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper  
>>>>>>>>> and/or
>>>>>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
>>>>>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the
>>>>>>>> handout
>>>>>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody  
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>> although they *should* :-) ).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level
>>>>>>>> lists,
>>>>>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that
>>>>>>>> generalities
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good  
>>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>> cause.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming
>>>>>>>>> "X is
>>>>>>>>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results,  
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
>>>>>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the
>>>>>>>>> slides
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the
>>>>>>>>> results
>>>>>>>>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the
>>>>>>>>> URL
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of
>>>>>>>> footnote,
>>>>>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a
>>>>>>>> footnote in
>>>>>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the
>>>>>>>> frame
>>>>>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this
>>>>>>>> makes it
>>>>>>>> sound, but who knows?[1]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between
>>>>>> beamer
>>>>>> and LaTeX very well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken
>>>>>> presentation of a LaTeX article.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX  
>>>>>> sectioning
>>>>>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to
>>>>>> subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level
>>>>>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their
>>>>>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the
>>>>>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my
>>>>>> perspective
>>>>>> maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems
>>>>>> natural
>>>>>> to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have
>>>>>> big
>>>>>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a  
>>>>>> beamer
>>>>>> presentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of  
>>>>>> view of
>>>>>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode
>>>>>> Lisp
>>>>>> code owing to my own illiteracy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com
>>>
>>> PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/
>>>
>>> Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

* Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
  2010-01-04 14:49                                 ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
  2010-01-04 15:30                                   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2010-01-05 17:21                                   ` Carsten Dominik
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 54+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-01-05 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira; +Cc: Russell Adams, emacs-orgmode

Hi everyone,

OK, I have now implemented notes.  Notes are generated from outline
nodes that have either a BEAMER_env property with value "note" or
"noteNH", or the corresponding tag "B_note" or "B_noteNH" (yes, for
this specific case, the tag is enough, to keep things more compact).

You can (in org-beamer-mode) select these with `C-c C-b n' and `C-c C- 
b N',
respectively.  With "note", the headline of the node will be
(part of) the note.  With "noteNH", the headline will be ignored
and only the node content will become the beamer note.

I hope this does the trick for most applications.

- Carsten



On Jan 4, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:

>
> If a B_note tag is used in a headline for notes, it has the  
> advantage that it
> will be easier to see all the notes in the document (slides with  
> notes). Also,
> it would be easier to customize if the notes should be exported for  
> other
> formats other then beamer (since the user could simple exclude the  
> B_note tag).
>
> Regarding the headline itself, I think it would be better to ignore  
> it. AFAIK it
> is not possible to set a title for a note slide and using the  
> headline as the
> first note would limit what could be put in the first note.
>
> On the other hand, if #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE ... #+END_BEAMER_NOTE is  
> used instead
> of a headline then org could advertise the use of yasnippets in the
> documentation and maybe also provide a snippet for this. Therefore,  
> writing the
> notes environment wouldn't be much of a problem, but a way of  
> avoiding exporting
> beamer notes to other formats would have to be implemented.
>
> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>
> At Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:07:10 +0100,
> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Russell Adams wrote:
>>
>>> Carsten,
>>>
>>> I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about
>>> something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from
>>> the slide?
>>>
>>> ** Slide
>>>
>>> - Slide content
>>> - Slide content
>>>
>>> #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE
>>> Here are the class notes for this slide...
>>>
>>> #+END_BEAMER_NOTE
>>
>>
>> That is a possibility, but a lot of hassle to type for a short note.
>> Admittedly, properties are just as messy.
>>
>> Maybe it should be
>>
>> * BNOTE Here are the class notes for this slide...
>>   more stuff....
>>
>> - Carsten
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late...
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't
>>>> think that this is, in the end, the right solution.
>>>>
>>>> Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with  
>>>> property
>>>> BNOTE
>>>> or so as the sources of notes?
>>>>
>>>> Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note"
>>>> in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes.  This would be easy  
>>>> to
>>>> turn
>>>> on with the special editing code we already have, would  
>>>> automatically
>>>> be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible.
>>>>
>>>> Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for
>>>> such notes, and give the biggest flexibility.
>>>>
>>>> If we do this, then the following problem arises:  An outline
>>>> node always has a headline and content.  What should be do
>>>> with the headline?  Should be throw it away?  Or just make it
>>>> part of the note text?  Maybe that would make the most sense.
>>>>
>>>> Input is again welcome!
>>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the  
>>>>> \note
>>>>> command is
>>>>> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in
>>>>> the
>>>>> next
>>>>> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note
>>>>> commands in
>>>>> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a
>>>>> headline
>>>>> below the
>>>>> frame headline seems to be a good approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other
>>>>> formats one
>>>>> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already
>>>>> available
>>>>> feature of
>>>>> not exporting headlines with a given tag.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>>>>>
>>>>> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
>>>>> "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> \pnote could be an option
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * section
>>>>>>> ** subsection
>>>>>>> *** frame
>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************** notes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> maybe we can set a number / variable
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org-beamer-frame-level
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we could create
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org-beamer-notes-level
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
>>>>>>>> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante
>>>>>>>>> Moreira wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful  
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> some cases. If
>>>>>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months  
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> now someone
>>>>>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a
>>>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>>>> footnote when
>>>>>>>>>> exporting to beamer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of
>>>>>>>>> footnotes
>>>>>>>>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for
>>>>>>>>> quotations,
>>>>>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not
>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper  
>>>>>>>>> and/or
>>>>>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
>>>>>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the
>>>>>>>> handout
>>>>>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody  
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>> although they *should* :-) ).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level
>>>>>>>> lists,
>>>>>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that
>>>>>>>> generalities
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good  
>>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>> cause.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming
>>>>>>>>> "X is
>>>>>>>>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results,  
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
>>>>>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the
>>>>>>>>> slides
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the
>>>>>>>>> results
>>>>>>>>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the
>>>>>>>>> URL
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of
>>>>>>>> footnote,
>>>>>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a
>>>>>>>> footnote in
>>>>>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the
>>>>>>>> frame
>>>>>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this
>>>>>>>> makes it
>>>>>>>> sound, but who knows?[1]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between
>>>>>> beamer
>>>>>> and LaTeX very well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken
>>>>>> presentation of a LaTeX article.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX  
>>>>>> sectioning
>>>>>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to
>>>>>> subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level
>>>>>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their
>>>>>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the
>>>>>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my
>>>>>> perspective
>>>>>> maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems
>>>>>> natural
>>>>>> to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have
>>>>>> big
>>>>>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a  
>>>>>> beamer
>>>>>> presentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of  
>>>>>> view of
>>>>>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode
>>>>>> Lisp
>>>>>> code owing to my own illiteracy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com
>>>
>>> PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/
>>>
>>> Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 54+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2010-01-05 17:22 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 54+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-12-22  0:11 Beamer support in Org-mode Thomas S. Dye
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-11-26 11:17 Carsten Dominik
2009-11-26 11:26 ` Friedrich Delgado Friedrichs
2009-11-26 14:01 ` Sébastien Vauban
2009-11-26 14:54   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-11-26 17:53     ` Sébastien Vauban
2009-11-26 16:30 ` Nick Dokos
2009-11-26 16:47   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-11-26 18:29     ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
2009-12-10 16:09       ` Carsten Dominik
2009-12-10 16:50         ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
2009-12-10 17:28           ` Nick Dokos
2009-12-10 20:49             ` Mark Elston
2009-12-10 21:00               ` Thomas S. Dye
2009-12-10 22:02                 ` Mark Elston
2009-12-10 23:31                   ` Nick Dokos
2009-12-10 23:49                     ` Mark Elston
2009-12-11  8:05                       ` Carsten Dominik
2009-12-21 15:50                         ` Thomas S. Dye
2009-12-21 22:28                           ` Carsten Dominik
2009-12-10 21:05               ` Scot Becker
2009-12-15 15:51         ` Eric S Fraga
2009-12-15 19:07           ` Daniel Martins
2009-12-15 19:49             ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
2009-12-18 11:06               ` Adam Spiers
     [not found]                 ` <orgmode@adamspiers.org>
2009-12-18 15:06                   ` Nick Dokos
2009-12-18 21:01                     ` Daniel Martins
2009-12-19 22:33                       ` Thomas S. Dye
2009-12-20 15:08                         ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
2010-01-03 19:07                           ` Carsten Dominik
2010-01-03 23:22                             ` Russell Adams
2010-01-04  9:07                               ` Carsten Dominik
2010-01-04 14:49                                 ` Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
2010-01-04 15:30                                   ` Carsten Dominik
2010-01-05 17:21                                   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-11-26 16:49 ` Dan Davison
2009-11-26 16:57   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-11-27  8:02     ` Eric S Fraga
2009-11-27  9:09       ` Sébastien Vauban
2009-11-27 13:48         ` Carsten Dominik
2009-11-27 15:04           ` Sébastien Vauban
2009-11-27  8:01   ` Eric S Fraga
2009-11-26 17:04 ` Thomas S. Dye
2009-11-26 18:40   ` Dan Davison
2009-11-26 21:38     ` Sébastien Vauban
2009-11-26 23:51     ` Carsten Dominik
2009-11-27  9:13       ` Sébastien Vauban
2009-11-27 14:26       ` Stephan Schmitt
2009-12-02 16:27       ` Christian Egli
2009-11-27 14:21     ` Magnus Henoch
2009-11-26 17:10 ` Christoph Groth
2009-11-26 21:25   ` Sébastien Vauban
2009-11-26 18:26 ` Eric S Fraga
2009-11-29 18:03 ` Gray Calhoun
2009-11-29 20:19   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-11-30 23:21     ` Gray Calhoun

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