Re: Beamer support in Org-mode

From: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
To: Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:07:10 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <443D1D25-EA97-41F6-A87C-637EFAB314A3@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100103232214.GC21336@thinkpad.adamsinfoserv.com>

On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Russell Adams wrote:

> Carsten,
>
> I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about
> something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from
> the slide?
>
> ** Slide
>
> - Slide content
> - Slide content
>
> #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE
> Here are the class notes for this slide...
>
> #+END_BEAMER_NOTE

That is a possibility, but a lot of hassle to type for a short note.
Admittedly, properties are just as messy.

Maybe it should be

* BNOTE Here are the class notes for this slide...
   more stuff....

- Carsten
>
> Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late...
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't
>> think that this is, in the end, the right solution.
>>
>> Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with property
>> BNOTE
>> or so as the sources of notes?
>>
>> Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note"
>> in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes.  This would be easy to
>> turn
>> on with the special editing code we already have, would automatically
>> be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible.
>>
>> Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for
>> such notes, and give the biggest flexibility.
>>
>> If we do this, then the following problem arises:  An outline
>> node always has a headline and content.  What should be do
>> with the headline?  Should be throw it away?  Or just make it
>> part of the note text?  Maybe that would make the most sense.
>>
>> Input is again welcome!
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the \note
>>> command is
>>> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in  
>>> the
>>> next
>>> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note
>>> commands in
>>> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a  
>>> headline
>>> below the
>>> frame headline seems to be a good approach.
>>>
>>> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other
>>> formats one
>>> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already  
>>> available
>>> feature of
>>> not exporting headlines with a given tag.
>>>
>>> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>>>
>>> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
>>> "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> \pnote could be an option
>>>>>
>>>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
>>>>>
>>>>> * section
>>>>> ** subsection
>>>>> *** frame
>>>>> etc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************** notes
>>>>>
>>>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
>>>>>
>>>>> maybe we can set a number / variable
>>>>>
>>>>> like
>>>>>
>>>>> org-beamer-frame-level
>>>>>
>>>>> we could create
>>>>>
>>>>> org-beamer-notes-level
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
>>>>>> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante
>>>>>>> Moreira wrote:
>>>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be  
>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in
>>>>>>>> some cases. If
>>>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from
>>>>>>>> now someone
>>>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a  
>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>> footnote when
>>>>>>>> exporting to beamer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of
>>>>>>> footnotes
>>>>>>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for
>>>>>>> quotations,
>>>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not  
>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
>>>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
>>>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the
>>>>>> handout
>>>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does
>>>>>> that,
>>>>>> although they *should* :-) ).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level
>>>>>> lists,
>>>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that  
>>>>>> generalities
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough
>>>>>> cause.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming  
>>>>>>> "X is
>>>>>>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how  
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
>>>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the  
>>>>>>> slides
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the
>>>>>>> results
>>>>>>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the  
>>>>>>> URL
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of
>>>>>> footnote,
>>>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a
>>>>>> footnote in
>>>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the
>>>>>> frame
>>>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this
>>>>>> makes it
>>>>>> sound, but who knows?[1]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between  
>>>> beamer
>>>> and LaTeX very well.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken
>>>> presentation of a LaTeX article.
>>>>
>>>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX sectioning
>>>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to
>>>> subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level
>>>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their
>>>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the
>>>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in  
>>>> the
>>>> LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes
>>>> also
>>>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.
>>>>
>>>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my
>>>> perspective
>>>> maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below  
>>>> the
>>>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems  
>>>> natural
>>>> to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have  
>>>> big
>>>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a beamer
>>>> presentation.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of view of
>>>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode  
>>>> Lisp
>>>> code owing to my own illiteracy.
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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- Carsten