Re: Beamer support in Org-mode

From: Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:22:14 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100103232214.GC21336@thinkpad.adamsinfoserv.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <6CC0A879-B435-47D5-9D5A-18986BA86F85@gmail.com>

Carsten,

I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about
something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from
the slide?

** Slide

 - Slide content
 - Slide content

#+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE
Here are the class notes for this slide...

#+END_BEAMER_NOTE

Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late...

Thanks.

On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't
> think that this is, in the end, the right solution.
>
> Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with property  
> BNOTE
> or so as the sources of notes?
>
> Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note"
> in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes.  This would be easy to  
> turn
> on with the special editing code we already have, would automatically
> be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible.
>
> Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for
> such notes, and give the biggest flexibility.
>
> If we do this, then the following problem arises:  An outline
> node always has a headline and content.  What should be do
> with the headline?  Should be throw it away?  Or just make it
> part of the note text?  Maybe that would make the most sense.
>
> Input is again welcome!
>
> - Carsten
>
> On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
>
>>
>> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the \note  
>> command is
>> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in the 
>> next
>> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note  
>> commands in
>> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a headline 
>> below the
>> frame headline seems to be a good approach.
>>
>> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other  
>> formats one
>> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already available 
>> feature of
>> not exporting headlines with a given tag.
>>
>> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>>
>> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
>> "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:
>>>
>>>> \pnote could be an option
>>>>
>>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
>>>>
>>>> * section
>>>> ** subsection
>>>> *** frame
>>>> etc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ************** notes
>>>>
>>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
>>>>
>>>> maybe we can set a number / variable
>>>>
>>>> like
>>>>
>>>> org-beamer-frame-level
>>>>
>>>> we could create
>>>>
>>>> org-beamer-notes-level
>>>>
>>>> Daniel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
>>>>> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante
>>>>>> Moreira wrote:
>>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be in a
>>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in
>>>>>>> some cases. If
>>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from
>>>>>>> now someone
>>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a standard
>>>>>>> footnote when
>>>>>>> exporting to beamer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of
>>>>>> footnotes
>>>>>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for  
>>>>>> quotations,
>>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not used
>>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or
>>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
>>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the
>>>>> handout
>>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does
>>>>> that,
>>>>> although they *should* :-) ).
>>>>>
>>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level  
>>>>> lists,
>>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that generalities
>>>>> like
>>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough
>>>>> cause.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming "X is
>>>>>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how the
>>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
>>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the slides
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the
>>>>>> results
>>>>>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the URL
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of  
>>>>> footnote,
>>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a
>>>>> footnote in
>>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the  
>>>>> frame
>>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this
>>>>> makes it
>>>>> sound, but who knows?[1]
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
>>>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between beamer
>>> and LaTeX very well.
>>>
>>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken
>>> presentation of a LaTeX article.
>>>
>>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX sectioning
>>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to
>>> subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level
>>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their
>>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the
>>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in the
>>> LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes  
>>> also
>>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.
>>>
>>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my  
>>> perspective
>>> maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below the
>>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems natural
>>> to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have big
>>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a beamer
>>> presentation.
>>>
>>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of view of
>>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode Lisp
>>> code owing to my own illiteracy.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
> - Carsten
>
>
>
>
>
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Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com

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