Re: Beamer support in Org-mode

From: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
To: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira <darcamo@gmail.com>
Cc: Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com>, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 18:21:04 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7F22A0F0-DA0E-46C0-91D3-2DEFB9471371@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4b420007.0604c00a.63a8.ffffafc6@mx.google.com>

Hi everyone,

OK, I have now implemented notes.  Notes are generated from outline
nodes that have either a BEAMER_env property with value "note" or
"noteNH", or the corresponding tag "B_note" or "B_noteNH" (yes, for
this specific case, the tag is enough, to keep things more compact).

You can (in org-beamer-mode) select these with `C-c C-b n' and `C-c C- 
b N',
respectively.  With "note", the headline of the node will be
(part of) the note.  With "noteNH", the headline will be ignored
and only the node content will become the beamer note.

I hope this does the trick for most applications.

- Carsten

On Jan 4, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:

>
> If a B_note tag is used in a headline for notes, it has the  
> advantage that it
> will be easier to see all the notes in the document (slides with  
> notes). Also,
> it would be easier to customize if the notes should be exported for  
> other
> formats other then beamer (since the user could simple exclude the  
> B_note tag).
>
> Regarding the headline itself, I think it would be better to ignore  
> it. AFAIK it
> is not possible to set a title for a note slide and using the  
> headline as the
> first note would limit what could be put in the first note.
>
> On the other hand, if #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE ... #+END_BEAMER_NOTE is  
> used instead
> of a headline then org could advertise the use of yasnippets in the
> documentation and maybe also provide a snippet for this. Therefore,  
> writing the
> notes environment wouldn't be much of a problem, but a way of  
> avoiding exporting
> beamer notes to other formats would have to be implemented.
>
> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>
> At Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:07:10 +0100,
> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Russell Adams wrote:
>>
>>> Carsten,
>>>
>>> I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about
>>> something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from
>>> the slide?
>>>
>>> ** Slide
>>>
>>> - Slide content
>>> - Slide content
>>>
>>> #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE
>>> Here are the class notes for this slide...
>>>
>>> #+END_BEAMER_NOTE
>>
>>
>> That is a possibility, but a lot of hassle to type for a short note.
>> Admittedly, properties are just as messy.
>>
>> Maybe it should be
>>
>> * BNOTE Here are the class notes for this slide...
>>   more stuff....
>>
>> - Carsten
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late...
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't
>>>> think that this is, in the end, the right solution.
>>>>
>>>> Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with  
>>>> property
>>>> BNOTE
>>>> or so as the sources of notes?
>>>>
>>>> Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note"
>>>> in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes.  This would be easy  
>>>> to
>>>> turn
>>>> on with the special editing code we already have, would  
>>>> automatically
>>>> be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible.
>>>>
>>>> Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for
>>>> such notes, and give the biggest flexibility.
>>>>
>>>> If we do this, then the following problem arises:  An outline
>>>> node always has a headline and content.  What should be do
>>>> with the headline?  Should be throw it away?  Or just make it
>>>> part of the note text?  Maybe that would make the most sense.
>>>>
>>>> Input is again welcome!
>>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the  
>>>>> \note
>>>>> command is
>>>>> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in
>>>>> the
>>>>> next
>>>>> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note
>>>>> commands in
>>>>> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a
>>>>> headline
>>>>> below the
>>>>> frame headline seems to be a good approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other
>>>>> formats one
>>>>> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already
>>>>> available
>>>>> feature of
>>>>> not exporting headlines with a given tag.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira
>>>>>
>>>>> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000,
>>>>> "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> \pnote could be an option
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * section
>>>>>>> ** subsection
>>>>>>> *** frame
>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************** notes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> maybe we can set a number / variable
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org-beamer-frame-level
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we could create
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org-beamer-notes-level
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>:
>>>>>>>> Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante
>>>>>>>>> Moreira wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful  
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> some cases. If
>>>>>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months  
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> now someone
>>>>>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a
>>>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>>>> footnote when
>>>>>>>>>> exporting to beamer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of
>>>>>>>>> footnotes
>>>>>>>>> in presentations.  For example, citation of sources for
>>>>>>>>> quotations,
>>>>>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not
>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper  
>>>>>>>>> and/or
>>>>>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential
>>>>>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the
>>>>>>>> handout
>>>>>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody  
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>> although they *should* :-) ).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level
>>>>>>>> lists,
>>>>>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that
>>>>>>>> generalities
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good  
>>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>> cause.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming
>>>>>>>>> "X is
>>>>>>>>> much faster than Y!"  You might want to talk briefly about how
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results,  
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could
>>>>>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the
>>>>>>>>> slides
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the
>>>>>>>>> results
>>>>>>>>> are controversial!  In this case, it would not matter that the
>>>>>>>>> URL
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of
>>>>>>>> footnote,
>>>>>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a
>>>>>>>> footnote in
>>>>>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the
>>>>>>>> frame
>>>>>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this
>>>>>>>> makes it
>>>>>>>> sound, but who knows?[1]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, I like this idea.  I think it tracks the mapping between
>>>>>> beamer
>>>>>> and LaTeX very well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken
>>>>>> presentation of a LaTeX article.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX  
>>>>>> sectioning
>>>>>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to
>>>>>> subsection.  To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level
>>>>>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their
>>>>>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the
>>>>>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> LaTeX article.  As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my
>>>>>> perspective
>>>>>> maps to beamer notes.  Marking off notes with the headline below
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems
>>>>>> natural
>>>>>> to me.  The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have
>>>>>> big
>>>>>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a  
>>>>>> beamer
>>>>>> presentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of  
>>>>>> view of
>>>>>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode
>>>>>> Lisp
>>>>>> code owing to my own illiteracy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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- Carsten