From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: Beamer support in Org-mode Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 18:21:04 +0100 Message-ID: <7F22A0F0-DA0E-46C0-91D3-2DEFB9471371@gmail.com> References: <87eimwb5he.wl%ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> <6ac505ad0912151107i5944cc89ma18cfed98712d7f6@mail.gmail.com> <4b27e848.e302be0a.7924.08ae@mx.google.com> <20091218110607.GE5666@atlantic.linksys.moosehall> <9705.1261148787@alphaville.usa.hp.com> <6ac505ad0912181301v65646abdrb3f5252b433114f0@mail.gmail.com> <46810F0E-8972-409F-AA12-02654EFC12AC@tsdye.com> <4b2e3e17.1502be0a.017c.0e5f@mx.google.com> <6CC0A879-B435-47D5-9D5A-18986BA86F85@gmail.com> <20100103232214.GC21336@thinkpad.adamsinfoserv.com> <443D1D25-EA97-41F6-A87C-637EFAB314A3@gmail.com> <4b420007.0604c00a.63a8.ffffafc6@mx.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NSD6l-00028M-FR for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:22:15 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NSD6i-00024s-19 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:22:15 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=40353 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NSD6h-00024i-Dp for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:22:11 -0500 Received: from mail-ew0-f224.google.com ([209.85.219.224]:63931) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NSD6g-0004d4-Ch for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:22:11 -0500 Received: by ewy24 with SMTP id 24so19415937ewy.26 for ; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 09:22:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4b420007.0604c00a.63a8.ffffafc6@mx.google.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira Cc: Russell Adams , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi everyone, OK, I have now implemented notes. Notes are generated from outline nodes that have either a BEAMER_env property with value "note" or "noteNH", or the corresponding tag "B_note" or "B_noteNH" (yes, for this specific case, the tag is enough, to keep things more compact). You can (in org-beamer-mode) select these with `C-c C-b n' and `C-c C- b N', respectively. With "note", the headline of the node will be (part of) the note. With "noteNH", the headline will be ignored and only the node content will become the beamer note. I hope this does the trick for most applications. - Carsten On Jan 4, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote: > > If a B_note tag is used in a headline for notes, it has the > advantage that it > will be easier to see all the notes in the document (slides with > notes). Also, > it would be easier to customize if the notes should be exported for > other > formats other then beamer (since the user could simple exclude the > B_note tag). > > Regarding the headline itself, I think it would be better to ignore > it. AFAIK it > is not possible to set a title for a note slide and using the > headline as the > first note would limit what could be put in the first note. > > On the other hand, if #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE ... #+END_BEAMER_NOTE is > used instead > of a headline then org could advertise the use of yasnippets in the > documentation and maybe also provide a snippet for this. Therefore, > writing the > notes environment wouldn't be much of a problem, but a way of > avoiding exporting > beamer notes to other formats would have to be implemented. > > - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira > > At Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:07:10 +0100, > Carsten Dominik wrote: >> >> >> On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Russell Adams wrote: >> >>> Carsten, >>> >>> I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about >>> something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from >>> the slide? >>> >>> ** Slide >>> >>> - Slide content >>> - Slide content >>> >>> #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE >>> Here are the class notes for this slide... >>> >>> #+END_BEAMER_NOTE >> >> >> That is a possibility, but a lot of hassle to type for a short note. >> Admittedly, properties are just as messy. >> >> Maybe it should be >> >> * BNOTE Here are the class notes for this slide... >> more stuff.... >> >> - Carsten >>> >>> Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late... >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote: >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't >>>> think that this is, in the end, the right solution. >>>> >>>> Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with >>>> property >>>> BNOTE >>>> or so as the sources of notes? >>>> >>>> Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note" >>>> in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes. This would be easy >>>> to >>>> turn >>>> on with the special editing code we already have, would >>>> automatically >>>> be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible. >>>> >>>> Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for >>>> such notes, and give the biggest flexibility. >>>> >>>> If we do this, then the following problem arises: An outline >>>> node always has a headline and content. What should be do >>>> with the headline? Should be throw it away? Or just make it >>>> part of the note text? Maybe that would make the most sense. >>>> >>>> Input is again welcome! >>>> >>>> - Carsten >>>> >>>> On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the >>>>> \note >>>>> command is >>>>> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in >>>>> the >>>>> next >>>>> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note >>>>> commands in >>>>> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a >>>>> headline >>>>> below the >>>>> frame headline seems to be a good approach. >>>>> >>>>> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other >>>>> formats one >>>>> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already >>>>> available >>>>> feature of >>>>> not exporting headlines with a given tag. >>>>> >>>>> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira >>>>> >>>>> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000, >>>>> "Thomas S. Dye" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Daniel, >>>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> \pnote could be an option >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * section >>>>>>> ** subsection >>>>>>> *** frame >>>>>>> etc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ************** notes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> maybe we can set a number / variable >>>>>>> >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> >>>>>>> org-beamer-frame-level >>>>>>> >>>>>>> we could create >>>>>>> >>>>>>> org-beamer-notes-level >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Daniel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos : >>>>>>>> Adam Spiers wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante >>>>>>>>> Moreira wrote: >>>>>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be >>>>>>>>>> in a >>>>>>>>>> presentation >>>>>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> some cases. If >>>>>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> now someone >>>>>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a >>>>>>>>>> standard >>>>>>>>>> footnote when >>>>>>>>>> exporting to beamer. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of >>>>>>>>> footnotes >>>>>>>>> in presentations. For example, citation of sources for >>>>>>>>> quotations, >>>>>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not >>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper >>>>>>>>> and/or >>>>>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential >>>>>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the >>>>>>>> handout >>>>>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>> although they *should* :-) ). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level >>>>>>>> lists, >>>>>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that >>>>>>>> generalities >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good >>>>>>>> enough >>>>>>>> cause. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming >>>>>>>>> "X is >>>>>>>>> much faster than Y!" You might want to talk briefly about how >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could >>>>>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the >>>>>>>>> slides >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the >>>>>>>>> results >>>>>>>>> are controversial! In this case, it would not matter that the >>>>>>>>> URL >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of >>>>>>>> footnote, >>>>>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a >>>>>>>> footnote in >>>>>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the >>>>>>>> frame >>>>>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this >>>>>>>> makes it >>>>>>>> sound, but who knows?[1] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Nick >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows... >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> FWIW, I like this idea. I think it tracks the mapping between >>>>>> beamer >>>>>> and LaTeX very well. >>>>>> >>>>>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken >>>>>> presentation of a LaTeX article. >>>>>> >>>>>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX >>>>>> sectioning >>>>>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to >>>>>> subsection. To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level >>>>>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their >>>>>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the >>>>>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in >>>>>> the >>>>>> LaTeX article. As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes >>>>>> also >>>>>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes. >>>>>> >>>>>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my >>>>>> perspective >>>>>> maps to beamer notes. Marking off notes with the headline below >>>>>> the >>>>>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems >>>>>> natural >>>>>> to me. The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have >>>>>> big >>>>>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a >>>>>> beamer >>>>>> presentation. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of >>>>>> view of >>>>>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode >>>>>> Lisp >>>>>> code owing to my own illiteracy. >>>>>> >>>>>> All the best, >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >>>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >>>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >>>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >>>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >>>> >>>> - Carsten >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Russell Adams RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com >>> >>> PGP Key ID: 0x1160DCB3 http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/ >>> >>> Fingerprint: 1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F 66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> >> - Carsten >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode - Carsten