Re: Beamer support in Org-mode

From: "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com>
To: Org Mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Beamer support in Org-mode
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:11:52 -1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <8D493D2E-D2E4-49DE-95FA-210B5AD58541@tsdye.com> (raw)

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Hi Carsten,

On Dec 21, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
...
>> I've had a chance to look at your first draft of beamer support.   
>> You've done a terrific job.  So much of the draft is right that it  
>> helps to focus thoughts on the parts that are candidates for  
>> discussion and possible change.
>
> Thanks for the very positive feedback!

You're welcome.  You certainly deserve it!

>>
>> Along those lines, I don't think using headlines for  
>> \begin{columns} ... \end{columns} works very well.  I think  
>> headlines should be reserved for sectioning, frames, elements of  
>> frames (blocks and friends), and notes.  Once a headline level has  
>> been designated for frames (n), then headline n+1 becomes an  
>> element of the frame, and headline n+2 becomes notes for the frame  
>> (following Daniel Martins' lead).
>
> Yes, this is another possibility in the notes-contest - I consider
> that discussion as still running and not settled.
>

>>
>> To my mind, columns are attributes of a frame, so they might better  
>> be handled as a property of the frame.  Frame elements are  
>> specifically assigned to a column, or not, using a property.
>
> You might or might not have noticed that the current
> implementation is already one iteration further than the
> first draft, and I have already followed a path which does
> not encourage the use of special levels for the columns
> environment.  Instead, it marks elements that *start* a new column.

Yes, I did see this but was concerned about not being able to close  
the columns environment to insert full-width material, a limitation  
noted in the draft manual.

> You proposal is different, but has the disadvantage that each element
> has to be labeled as being part of a column.  What is the advantage
> of this approach?  Maybe that it is possible to have an element that  
> is
> *after* the columns, spanning again the whole frame, before another
> element starts a new columns environment.

Yes, this is what I was hoping to achieve.

> I can see that this
> is desirable, but maybe it would be better to mark column starts
> as I am doing now, and then maybe mar an element that is outside
> of the column.

If it is possible to mark an element that closes an open columns  
environment, leaving the frame open for elements that fill the full  
width, and possibly for a new columns environment, then your approach  
to columns without additional outline structure would achieve what I  
was trying to get at.

> The reason why this approach seems (to me!) better is
> that it is the shorter path from an outline to frames with columns.
> So on  a slide with 10 items, you'd need to mark all ten, while I
> need to mark only two in order to distribute the items over two
> columns.

Minimizing the number of keystrokes is important, especially among org- 
mode people :)  Your approach, modified as we've discussed above, has  
other advantages, too, including more flexibility in the layout.

I'm pleased to learn that the limitation about full width elements  
after columns noted in the draft manual can be overcome, and look  
forward to working with the next draft.

Thanks again for all that you do.

Tom

> - Carsten
>
> P.S. I am also not entirely sure if I understand how exactly
> your setup below should look in LaTeX - maybe you can also show
> the desired LaTeX output?
>
>>
>> Roughly, this would yield the following syntax, which ought to  
>> export fairly cleanly with the HTML and LaTeX exporters.
>>
>> #+BEAMER_FRAME_LEVEL 2
>>
>> * Section 1
>> ** Frame 1
>> 	:PROPERTIES:
>> 	:FRAME_COLS: 2
>> 	:END:
>> *** Element 1   :block:
>> 	:PROPERTIES:
>> 	:IN_COL: 1
>> 	:END:
>> 	- Item 1
>> 	- Item 2
>> **** Notes about Element 1 block
>> 	- Keyed to Item 1
>> 	- Keyed to Item 2
>> *** Element 2   :block:
>> 	:PROPERTIES:
>> 	:IN_COL: 2
>> 	:END:
>> 	- Item 3
>> 	- Item 4
>> *** Element 3
>> 	This element spans two columns.  The headline doesn't appear on  
>> the slide.
>> *** Element 4  (headline doesn't appear on the slide because not a  
>> block or friend)
>> 	:PROPERTIES:
>> 	:IN_COL: 1
>> 	:END:
>> 	- Item 5
>> 	- Item 6
>> ** Frame 2
>> *** Element 1
>> 	- Item 1
>> 	- Item 2
>> **** Notes
>> 	- Note for item 1
>> 	- Note for item 2
>>
>> Thanks again for drafting what should be a very useful addition to  
>> the already insanely useful org-mode.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Tom
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:05 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> the current state of affairs in beamer support is now in
>>> the master branch of the git repo.
>>>
>>> My little draft documentation is now at
>>>
>>> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-beamer.php
>>>
>>> But it is really limited and I am hoping very much that someone
>>> will turn this into something useful!
>>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 11, 2009, at 12:49 AM, Mark Elston wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nick Dokos wrote:
>>>>> IIUC, another way to go (possibly much simpler than org- 
>>>>> babel[1]) is to use
>>>>> selective export:
>>>>>  #+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS:   Tags that select a tree for export
>>>>>  #+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS:  Tags that exclude a tree from export
>>>>> Mark the handout and notes sections with different tags and export
>>>>> the document twice, once with the handout tag selected and once
>>>>> with the notes tag selected.
>>>>
>>>> This sounds like it would work as well, though it probably results
>>>> in a very different org-file organization to make it work.  I will
>>>> have to play around with the various options to see what works best
>>>> for me.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>> HTH,
>>>>> Nick
>>>>> [1] NB: org-babel is another area that I know very little about,  
>>>>> but
>>>>> hope to learn more about during vacation (although by this time,  
>>>>> the
>>>>> todo list for vacation has expanded sufficiently to occupy several
>>>>> lifetimes...)
>>>>
>>>> Hah!  I know exactly what you mean...
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>

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