From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: Beamer support in Org-mode Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:07:10 +0100 Message-ID: <443D1D25-EA97-41F6-A87C-637EFAB314A3@gmail.com> References: <87eimwb5he.wl%ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> <6ac505ad0912151107i5944cc89ma18cfed98712d7f6@mail.gmail.com> <4b27e848.e302be0a.7924.08ae@mx.google.com> <20091218110607.GE5666@atlantic.linksys.moosehall> <9705.1261148787@alphaville.usa.hp.com> <6ac505ad0912181301v65646abdrb3f5252b433114f0@mail.gmail.com> <46810F0E-8972-409F-AA12-02654EFC12AC@tsdye.com> <4b2e3e17.1502be0a.017c.0e5f@mx.google.com> <6CC0A879-B435-47D5-9D5A-18986BA86F85@gmail.com> <20100103232214.GC21336@thinkpad.adamsinfoserv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NRiuF-0002TE-KC for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 04:07:19 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NRiuB-0002SU-Va for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 04:07:19 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=49468 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NRiuB-0002SQ-Mg for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 04:07:15 -0500 Received: from mail-ew0-f224.google.com ([209.85.219.224]:58348) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NRiuB-0000LV-9k for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 04:07:15 -0500 Received: by ewy24 with SMTP id 24so17725690ewy.26 for ; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 01:07:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100103232214.GC21336@thinkpad.adamsinfoserv.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Russell Adams Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Russell Adams wrote: > Carsten, > > I've seen properties and sub-headlines proposed, but what about > something like this, using quoting style to separate the notes from > the slide? > > ** Slide > > - Slide content > - Slide content > > #+BEGIN_BEAMER_NOTE > Here are the class notes for this slide... > > #+END_BEAMER_NOTE That is a possibility, but a lot of hassle to type for a short note. Admittedly, properties are just as messy. Maybe it should be * BNOTE Here are the class notes for this slide... more stuff.... - Carsten > > Maybe I'm coming in on the debate late... > > Thanks. > > > On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:07:29PM +0100, Carsten Dominik wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> after contemplating the \pnote proposal for beamer notes, I don't >> think that this is, in the end, the right solution. >> >> Can't we just use headings with a TODO keyword BNOTE or with property >> BNOTE >> or so as the sources of notes? >> >> Or, even simpler, Or we could use a special value "note" >> in the the BEAMER_env property to mark notes. This would be easy to >> turn >> on with the special editing code we already have, would automatically >> be tracked by a B_note tag and in this way stay visible. >> >> Using marked nodes would avoid choosing a specific level for >> such notes, and give the biggest flexibility. >> >> If we do this, then the following problem arises: An outline >> node always has a headline and content. What should be do >> with the headline? Should be throw it away? Or just make it >> part of the note text? Maybe that would make the most sense. >> >> Input is again welcome! >> >> - Carsten >> >> On Dec 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Darlan Cavalcante Moreira wrote: >> >>> >>> I also liked this idea. Since beamer does not track where the \note >>> command is >>> used inside the frame and just puts every note from that frame in >>> the >>> next >>> "notes slide", then there is no loss if org-mode put several \note >>> commands in >>> the end of the frame environment when exporting. Therefore, a >>> headline >>> below the >>> frame headline seems to be a good approach. >>> >>> Also, if the beamer notes are not desired when exporting to other >>> formats one >>> could add a tag to the "notes headline" and use the already >>> available >>> feature of >>> not exporting headlines with a given tag. >>> >>> - Darlan Cavalcante Moreira >>> >>> At Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:33:14 -1000, >>> "Thomas S. Dye" wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Daniel, >>>> >>>> On Dec 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Daniel Martins wrote: >>>> >>>>> \pnote could be an option >>>>> >>>>> Another idea is to reserve the lowest level to notes >>>>> >>>>> * section >>>>> ** subsection >>>>> *** frame >>>>> etc >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ************** notes >>>>> >>>>> (I don't know how many *'s are needed) >>>>> >>>>> maybe we can set a number / variable >>>>> >>>>> like >>>>> >>>>> org-beamer-frame-level >>>>> >>>>> we could create >>>>> >>>>> org-beamer-notes-level >>>>> >>>>> Daniel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2009/12/18 Nick Dokos : >>>>>> Adam Spiers wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:49:23PM -0300, Darlan Cavalcante >>>>>>> Moreira wrote: >>>>>>>> In addition, while I also agree that footnotes shouldn't be >>>>>>>> in a >>>>>>>> presentation >>>>>>>> they are allowed when working with beamer and may be useful in >>>>>>>> some cases. If >>>>>>>> org-mode export footnotes as beamer notes then some months from >>>>>>>> now someone >>>>>>>> would be asking here in the mailing-list how to enter a >>>>>>>> standard >>>>>>>> footnote when >>>>>>>> exporting to beamer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree - unfortunately there are genuinely sensible uses of >>>>>>> footnotes >>>>>>> in presentations. For example, citation of sources for >>>>>>> quotations, >>>>>>> data etc. is ideally accomplished by footnotes: they are not >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> during the presentation itself, but by distributing paper and/or >>>>>>> electronic copies after the talk, footnotes provide essential >>>>>>> reference data for perusal by the audience at a later date. >>>>>>> >>>>>> I think that's an argument *for* Eric's idea (assuming that the >>>>>> handout >>>>>> includes notes - that's my practice, but maybe not everybody does >>>>>> that, >>>>>> although they *should* :-) ). >>>>>> >>>>>> In general, I think slides should be very simple: single-level >>>>>> lists, >>>>>> single idea per slide, no footnotes - but I know that >>>>>> generalities >>>>>> like >>>>>> that are just guidelines: meant to be broken, given a good enough >>>>>> cause. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Imagine a slide showing the results of a benchmark, claiming >>>>>>> "X is >>>>>>> much faster than Y!" You might want to talk briefly about how >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> results were obtained, and about the impact of the results, but >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> would also need to be able to tell the audience they could >>>>>>> independently verify the results by obtaining a copy of the >>>>>>> slides >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> visiting the URL contained in the footnote - especially if the >>>>>>> results >>>>>>> are controversial! In this case, it would not matter that the >>>>>>> URL >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> too small to be legible from the back of the room. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How does inverting Eric's idea sound: invent a new kind of >>>>>> footnote, >>>>>> let's call it, say, a "pnote", which is treated exactly like a >>>>>> footnote in >>>>>> all exports *except* beamer. In beamer, footnotes end up in the >>>>>> frame >>>>>> and pnotes end up in the notes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not sure whether the implementation would be as simple as this >>>>>> makes it >>>>>> sound, but who knows?[1] >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Nick >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] Well, OK: Carsten knows... >>>>>> >>>> >>>> FWIW, I like this idea. I think it tracks the mapping between >>>> beamer >>>> and LaTeX very well. >>>> >>>> In my experience, beamer slide shows are an aid in the spoken >>>> presentation of a LaTeX article. >>>> >>>> Beamer does a good job of mapping the higher level LaTeX sectioning >>>> commands, with some themes that automatically display down to >>>> subsection. To my mind, frames in beamer capture lower-level >>>> structure (e.g. subsubsection, paragraph, subparagraph) in their >>>> (often over-used) bulleted lists, and (more appropriately) the >>>> photographs, diagrams, maps etc. that are inserted as figures in >>>> the >>>> LaTeX article. As others on the list have noted, LaTeX footnotes >>>> also >>>> map fairly directly to beamer footnotes. >>>> >>>> This leaves most of the text of the article, which from my >>>> perspective >>>> maps to beamer notes. Marking off notes with the headline below >>>> the >>>> last one that deals with frames and their paraphernalia seems >>>> natural >>>> to me. The typical org-mode file that exports to LaTeX will have >>>> big >>>> chunks that transfer very readily to the notes sections of a beamer >>>> presentation. >>>> >>>> I don't know whether the idea makes sense from the point of view of >>>> implementation, though, because I can't really read the org-mode >>>> Lisp >>>> code owing to my own illiteracy. >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >>>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> >> - Carsten >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Russell Adams RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com > > PGP Key ID: 0x1160DCB3 http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/ > > Fingerprint: 1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F 66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3 > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode - Carsten