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From: Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org>
To: Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus@gmail.com>,
	Org Mode List <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>,
	 Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 10:12:22 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dfc579d6-fee3-1f4d-6ef8-1d4043a6d997@mailbox.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87v969htj9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>

Am 20.06.2021 um 09:41 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou:
> Hello,
> 
> "Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:45 AM Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org> wrote:
> 
>>> * Note style input (=semantically strict input)
>>>
>>> "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole]
>>>
>>> "A quotation ending without punctuation". [cite: @hoel-71-whole]
>>>
>>> As the input preserves the location of punctuation in the original
>>> material, I'd say it should be much easier to deal with this. We
>>> don't have to add information which isn't in the input, but rather
>>> we'll just have to move any punctuation to after the citation
>>> object. Maybe I'm missing something, but to me this looks like
>>> a much simpler operation than going in the opposite direction.
> 
> This cannot be. [...]

> 
> As another, imperfect, workaround, I submit the following idea for
> consideration:
> 
>    "A quotation ending without punctuation" [cite: @hoel-71-whole].
>    "A quotation ending with a period"[cite: @hoel-71-whole].
> 
> IOW, the presence or absence of a space before the citation determines,
> according to a note rule, if the punctuation should go inside or outside
> the quotation. When processing non-note citations, we just need to
> ensure there is at least a space after the previous element, which is
> less "dangerous" than removing punctuation.

Yes, I guess we should be safe here. I can't think of a case where you 
wouldn't want a space before a citation.
> 
> I find it a bit too subtle, and so error-prone, but so is punctuation
> anyway. >
> WDYT?


Not a bad approach.

Using a space for this is perhaps too subtle as you say. Also, the 
question is which one should be the default. I'd actually suggest to 
turn it around:

    "A quotation ending without punctuation"[cite: @hoel-71-whole].
    "A quotation ending with a period" [cite: @hoel-71-whole].

Reason for this: People who don't care for this distinction---either 
because they use en-us only, or because they never switch from in-text 
to notes styles---will probably prefer to have a space between quotation 
and citation (in input and output). On the other hand, this here feels 
also a bit odd:
    "A quotation ending without punctuation"[cite: @hoel-71-whole].

In your example the rule would simply be that punctuation cannot jump 
across spaces.

What about some sort of escaping for punctuation that should stay 
outside the quotation marks?
    "A quotation ending without punctuation" [cite: @hoel-71-whole]\.

But, of course, that's imperfect as well. Don't know which option is 
less odd.

Denis







  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-06-21  8:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-05-13 21:33 Nicolas Goaziou
2021-05-13 22:14 ` Denis Maier
2021-05-13 23:21 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-14  8:31   ` Denis Maier
2021-05-14 10:26   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-05-14 12:37     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-14  8:42 ` Denis Maier
2021-05-14 12:28   ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-15 11:56   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-05-15 12:03     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-15 12:43       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-16 21:29     ` Denis Maier
2021-05-16 21:38       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-16 22:03         ` Denis Maier via General discussions about Org-mode.
2021-05-16 22:24           ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-17  8:08             ` Denis Maier
2021-06-05 21:35               ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-05 21:45                 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-05 22:00                   ` Denis Maier
2021-06-12  9:39                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-12 21:41                       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-12 22:04                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-12 22:12                           ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-13  8:22                           ` Denis Maier
2021-06-13 21:54                       ` Denis Maier
2021-06-13 22:04                         ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-13 22:23                           ` Denis Maier
2021-06-13 22:47                             ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-14 11:45                               ` Denis Maier
2021-06-14 11:51                                 ` Denis Maier
2021-06-14 23:37                                 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-14 23:41                                   ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-20  7:41                                   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-20 16:37                                     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-20 17:17                                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-21  8:12                                     ` Denis Maier [this message]
2021-06-21  8:45                                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-21  9:49                                         ` Denis Maier
2021-06-21 10:07                                         ` Denis Maier
2021-05-14 13:39 ` Denis Maier
2021-05-15 11:43   ` Nicolas Goaziou

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