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From: "Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus@gmail.com>
To: Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org>
Cc: Org Mode List <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>,
	Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:37:34 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAF-FPGNbkGZfQcmWr9BwvUcG4ZMO+NHLdZcUr0Lr48M+a_gTJg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <48377c85-5891-3658-d35b-cba1358878a8@mailbox.org>

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:45 AM Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org> wrote:
>
> Below a few examples of what I mean.
>
> WDYT? Am I missing something?
>
> Denis
> ===========================================================
> #+cite_export: csl
> #+cite_export: csl "C:/Users/denis/Zotero/styles/chicago-note-bibliography.csl"
> #+bibliography: test.bib
>
> * Original source
>
> "A quotation ending with a period."
>
> "A quotation ending without punctuation"
>
> * Author-date style input (= semantically non-strict input)
>
> "A quotation ending with a period" [cite: @hoel-71-whole].
>
> "A quotation ending without punctuation" [cite: @hoel-71-whole].
>
> ** author-date output with language: en-us
> Expected: "A quotation ending with a period" (Hoel 1971).
> Actual:   "A quotation ending with a period" (Hoel 1971).
>
> Expected: "A quotation ending without punctuation" (Hoel 1971).
> Actual:   "A quotation ending without punctuation" (Hoel 1971).
>
> => ok
>
> ** author-date output with language: de
> Expected: "A quotation ending with a period" (Hoel 1971).
> Actual:   "A quotation ending with a period" (Hoel 1971).
>
> Expected: "A quotation ending without punctuation" (Hoel 1971).
> Actual:   "A quotation ending without punctuation" (Hoel 1971).
>
> => ok
>
> ** note style output with language: en-us
> Expected: "A quotation ending with a period."[1]
> Actual:   "A quotation ending with a period."[1]
>
> Expected: "A quotation ending without punctuation."[1]
> Actual:   "A quotation ending without punctuation."[1]
>
> => ok
>
> ** note style output with language: en-gb or de
> Expected: "A quotation ending with a period."[1]
> Actual:   "A quotation ending with a period".[1]
>
> Expected: "A quotation ending without punctuation".[1]
> Actual:   "A quotation ending without punctuation".[1]
>
> => Here, we cannot distinguish between the two cases as we don't know whether punctuation appears in the original source.
>
> * Note style input (=semantically strict input)
>
> "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole]
>
> "A quotation ending without punctuation". [cite: @hoel-71-whole]
>
> As the input preserves the location of punctuation in the original material, I'd say it should be much easier to deal with this. We don't have to add information which isn't in the input, but rather we'll just have to move any punctuation to after the citation object. Maybe I'm missing something, but to me this looks like a much simpler operation than going in the opposite direction.
>
> Maybe we should stop talking about author date vs note style input, but rather about strict vs. non-strict input.

It's definitely not author-date vs note. I see it as in-text citations
vs note citations. As in, the former applies to other styles beyond
author-date.

The example you are highlighlighting here was why I was earlier
suggesting for a rule that would allow something like this input:

"A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole].

... where the second would be dropped, hence getting the expected output.

But IDK what Nicolas thinks of considering that now, or deferring for
later consideration.

Bruce


  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-06-14 23:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-05-13 21:33 Nicolas Goaziou
2021-05-13 22:14 ` Denis Maier
2021-05-13 23:21 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-14  8:31   ` Denis Maier
2021-05-14 10:26   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-05-14 12:37     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-14  8:42 ` Denis Maier
2021-05-14 12:28   ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-15 11:56   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-05-15 12:03     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-15 12:43       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-16 21:29     ` Denis Maier
2021-05-16 21:38       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-16 22:03         ` Denis Maier via General discussions about Org-mode.
2021-05-16 22:24           ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-17  8:08             ` Denis Maier
2021-06-05 21:35               ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-05 21:45                 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-05 22:00                   ` Denis Maier
2021-06-12  9:39                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-12 21:41                       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-12 22:04                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-12 22:12                           ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-13  8:22                           ` Denis Maier
2021-06-13 21:54                       ` Denis Maier
2021-06-13 22:04                         ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-13 22:23                           ` Denis Maier
2021-06-13 22:47                             ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-14 11:45                               ` Denis Maier
2021-06-14 11:51                                 ` Denis Maier
2021-06-14 23:37                                 ` Bruce D'Arcus [this message]
2021-06-14 23:41                                   ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-20  7:41                                   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-20 16:37                                     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-20 17:17                                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-21  8:12                                     ` Denis Maier
2021-06-21  8:45                                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-21  9:49                                         ` Denis Maier
2021-06-21 10:07                                         ` Denis Maier
2021-05-14 13:39 ` Denis Maier
2021-05-15 11:43   ` Nicolas Goaziou

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