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From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
To: Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org>
Cc: Org Mode List <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>, Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2021 23:35:36 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87h7icatav.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <139ff81d-4af6-1e75-f4c9-416032fc514f@mailbox.org> (Denis Maier's message of "Mon, 17 May 2021 10:08:27 +0200")

Hello,

Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org> writes:

> I think there are a couple of options and combinations thereof:
>
> 1. Do nothing special, just treat block quotations like regular paragraphs.
>
> 2. Don't apply this punctuation-manipulation to blockquotes at all, i.e. 
> let authors handle this manually.
>
> 3. Adjust RULE in the manipulation function: Let it accept two patterns:
> '((outside outside before) (outside outside after))
> The first would apply to inline quotations, the second to blockquotes.
>
> 4. IIUC, it's possible to set certain properties at block elements. So, 
> maybe you could actually add citation information there, e.g.:
>
> #+BEGIN_QUOTE :cite @doe p.45
> This is a blockquote in its own paragraph.
> #+END_QUOTE
>
>
> Unsure about the syntax, but you get the idea. This should allow for 
> complex manipulations: the citation can be added before or after the 
> punctuation mark; if a journal requires quotation marks even around 
> blockquotes => just add them during export; if the period is not part of 
> the original quotation you could just do this:
>
> #+BEGIN_QUOTE :cite @doe p.45 :punct .
> This is a blockquote in its own paragraph
> #+END_QUOTE
>
>
> Then the period will be added during export, but if a journal wants an 
> ellipsis in that case you can also just add that during export.
> 	This is a blockquote in its own paragraph [...].[1]
>
> Now, this is of course rather complex and might add a lot of overhead. I 
> don't think users should be required to use this, but this could 
> nevertheless be added as an additional and more powerful mechanism.
>
> 5. Don't apply punctuation-manipulation to individual blockquotes.
>
> #+BEGIN_QUOTE :punctuation-manipulation nil
> This is a blockquote in its own paragraph. [@doe p. 45]
> #+END_QUOTE
>
> (Maybe adding someting like this even for inline citations would be a 
> good idea: "asdf." [cite: @doe p. 45 :punctuation-manipulation nil]
> I can imagine many users will be happy with the automatism 95% of the 
> time, but there will always be egde cases.)
>
> Again, as I've said above, a combination of these options might be the 
> way to go. E.g., the default could be to disable 
> punctuation-manipulation for blockquotes. In addition to that there 
> could also be a properties based mechanism that offers more options. 
> (Thinking more about it, 3 and 4 would actually also play nicely
> together.)

Getting back to this thread… I'd like to see it moving forward.

You lost me here. Punctuation moving was implemented with notes cites in
mind (much like Pandoc, I think). More exactly, punctuation shuffling
may happen whenever a cite turns into a footnote. For any other case,
the author is expected to place the cite object manually. So, the
automation does not apply to blockquotes, in the sense that inline
quotes or blockquotes use the same location for footnotes.

Does that make sense?

Regards,
-- 
Nicolas Goaziou


  reply	other threads:[~2021-06-05 21:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-05-13 21:33 Nicolas Goaziou
2021-05-13 22:14 ` Denis Maier
2021-05-13 23:21 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-14  8:31   ` Denis Maier
2021-05-14 10:26   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-05-14 12:37     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-14  8:42 ` Denis Maier
2021-05-14 12:28   ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-15 11:56   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-05-15 12:03     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-15 12:43       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-16 21:29     ` Denis Maier
2021-05-16 21:38       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-16 22:03         ` Denis Maier via General discussions about Org-mode.
2021-05-16 22:24           ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-05-17  8:08             ` Denis Maier
2021-06-05 21:35               ` Nicolas Goaziou [this message]
2021-06-05 21:45                 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-05 22:00                   ` Denis Maier
2021-06-12  9:39                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-12 21:41                       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-12 22:04                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-12 22:12                           ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-13  8:22                           ` Denis Maier
2021-06-13 21:54                       ` Denis Maier
2021-06-13 22:04                         ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-13 22:23                           ` Denis Maier
2021-06-13 22:47                             ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-14 11:45                               ` Denis Maier
2021-06-14 11:51                                 ` Denis Maier
2021-06-14 23:37                                 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-14 23:41                                   ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-20  7:41                                   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-20 16:37                                     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-06-20 17:17                                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-21  8:12                                     ` Denis Maier
2021-06-21  8:45                                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-06-21  9:49                                         ` Denis Maier
2021-06-21 10:07                                         ` Denis Maier
2021-05-14 13:39 ` Denis Maier
2021-05-15 11:43   ` Nicolas Goaziou

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