* how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? @ 2010-09-02 16:19 Matt Price 2010-09-02 19:45 ` David Maus 2010-09-02 21:35 ` Christian Moe 0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Matt Price @ 2010-09-02 16:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 511 bytes --] Hi, This is all beyond me, but I was reading on the zotero forums about efforts to integrate zotero citations in emacs: http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/8306/testing-zoteroselect/ Towards the end of hte thread is some useful-looking elisp code, and I wondered how hard it would be to massage it into something org could use? otero integration would be a big plus for me and doubtless an increasing number of others. i fel like i've asked enough questions for a 24-hour period so i'l ltry to stop now. Matt [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 635 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-02 16:19 how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? Matt Price @ 2010-09-02 19:45 ` David Maus 2010-09-02 21:58 ` Christian Moe 2010-09-02 21:35 ` Christian Moe 1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: David Maus @ 2010-09-02 19:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Price; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1441 bytes --] Hi Matt, Matt Price wrote: >This is all beyond me, but I was reading on the zotero forums about >efforts to integrate zotero citations in emacs: >http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/8306/testing-zoteroselect/ >Towards the end of hte thread is some useful-looking elisp code, and >I wondered how hard it would be to massage it into something org >could use? otero integration would be a big plus for me and >doubtless an increasing number of others. <rant> Well... Providing an Elisp interface to Zotero is on my "Someday, Maybe" list and at least there is a successful attempt to talk to Zotero using MozRepl[1] (after I've discovered that Zotero's SOAP interface was abandoned). With regards to citations I started to think about[2] writing a processor for the Citation Style Language (CSL)[3] in Elisp. For this there wouldn't necessarily be an interaction with Zotero, but the possibility of using citation styles in CSL to format bibliographic entries for HTML or plain text export. The question is what kind of workflow you are imaging. I started with: Insert a reference to an entry in Zotero and provide pretty markup when exporting the file. </rant> Best, -- David Footnotes: [1] http://gist.github.com/252402 [2] Read: Did some quick'n'dirty hacks [3] http://citationstyles.org/ -- OpenPGP... 0x99ADB83B5A4478E6 Jabber.... dmjena@jabber.org Email..... dmaus@ictsoc.de [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 230 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-02 19:45 ` David Maus @ 2010-09-02 21:58 ` Christian Moe 2010-09-02 23:18 ` Matt Price 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Christian Moe @ 2010-09-02 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Maus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On 9/2/10 9:45 PM, David Maus wrote: > Well... Providing an Elisp interface to Zotero is on my "Someday, > Maybe" list and at least there is a successful attempt to talk to > Zotero using MozRepl[1] (after I've discovered that Zotero's SOAP > interface was abandoned). So much for the sleepless nights I spent eavesdropping on OpenOffice's SOAP chats with Zotero for the Zotero interface I meant to do in Perl but never finished. That MozRepl script you linked to looks a lot more fun. > With regards to citations I started to think about[2] writing a > processor for the Citation Style Language (CSL)[3] in Elisp. Yes, wouldn't that be cool? But in the medium term, I'd just like to get from A to B: A. Get references from Zotero into Org notes. (This I do, currently by exporting Zotero to BibTex, and use RefTex to add the citekeys in custom "cite:" links. This also allows me to style the bibliography with BibTex on LaTeX export.) B. Use Zotero's citeproc to process the references in my Org document and (re)format the bibliography to a given style, much as one can do e.g. in OpenOffice. Cheers, CM ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-02 21:58 ` Christian Moe @ 2010-09-02 23:18 ` Matt Price 2010-09-02 23:56 ` Matt Price ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Matt Price @ 2010-09-02 23:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2728 bytes --] On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote: > On 9/2/10 9:45 PM, David Maus wrote: > > Well... Providing an Elisp interface to Zotero is on my "Someday, >> Maybe" list and at least there is a successful attempt to talk to >> Zotero using MozRepl[1] (after I've discovered that Zotero's SOAP >> interface was abandoned). >> > > So much for the sleepless nights I spent eavesdropping on OpenOffice's SOAP > chats with Zotero for the Zotero interface I meant to do in Perl but never > finished. > > That MozRepl script you linked to looks a lot more fun. > > > With regards to citations I started to think about[2] writing a >> processor for the Citation Style Language (CSL)[3] in Elisp. >> > > Yes, wouldn't that be cool? > ditto on that. > > But in the medium term, I'd just like to get from A to B: > > A. Get references from Zotero into Org notes. (This I do, currently by > exporting Zotero to BibTex, and use RefTex to add the citekeys in custom > "cite:" links. This also allows me to style the bibliography with BibTex on > LaTeX export.) > this is certainly something I'd like to do. But i have the problem that (1) I don't really know how to use latex, and was trying to avoid what now seems like the necessary task of learning how to use it; and (2) in my field (history) latex and bibtex are both pretty problematic as export formats. Bibtex doesn't support most humanistic citation styles (and has a rigid type strcture which doesn't accommodate things like archival materials very well; while latex is neither an acceptable submission format for most journals, nor a good formation for collaboration with other scholars (since everyone else writes in MS Word). This means that what I really need is a more robust open-document exporter; but that's been giving me problem after problem lately (for instance, mk4ht has stopped exporting some of my most important documents, for reasons I don't understand but might be related to org-mode's latex exporter. I have this notion I saw a generic exporter that someone wrote for odt, in which you feed the exporter a template document which ocntains all the relevant style definitions. but I can't find it anymore, and as I recall it didn't really seem to work very well anyway. > > B. Use Zotero's citeproc to process the references in my Org document and > (re)format the bibliography to a given style, much as one can do e.g. in > OpenOffice. > That would be really great. Alternatively maybe one could keep the zotero links in the document and allow the native latex or openoffice trnaslators interpret the references themselves. anyway I'd be incredibly stoked if someone figured this out better. matt > > Cheers, > CM > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3899 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-02 23:18 ` Matt Price @ 2010-09-02 23:56 ` Matt Price 2010-09-03 0:50 ` Matt Price 2010-09-03 21:30 ` Christian Moe 2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Matt Price @ 2010-09-02 23:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 636 bytes --] On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote: > > I have this notion I saw a generic exporter that someone wrote for odt, in >> which you feed the exporter a template document which ocntains all the >> relevant style definitions. but I can't find it anymore, and as I recall it >> didn't really seem to work very well anyway. >> > > ah, it was a muse-mode exporter: http://www.mail-archive.com/muse-el-discuss@gna.org/msg01083.html would that be a good beginning for a native odt exporter in org, or would it be better to start from scratch with the org-export-generic.el? or maybe both on reflection... m [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1242 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-02 23:18 ` Matt Price 2010-09-02 23:56 ` Matt Price @ 2010-09-03 0:50 ` Matt Price 2010-09-03 20:12 ` Scot Becker 2010-09-03 21:30 ` Christian Moe 2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Matt Price @ 2010-09-03 0:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 619 bytes --] On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote: > > I have this notion I saw a generic exporter that someone wrote for odt, in >> which you feed the exporter a template document which ocntains all the >> relevant style definitions. but I can't find it anymore, and as I recall it >> didn't really seem to work very well anyway. >> > > ah, it was a muse-mode exporter: http://www.mail-archive.com/muse-el-discuss@gna.org/msg01083.html would that be a good beginning for a native odt exporter i norg, or would it be better to start from scratch with the org generic exporter? anyway thanks, m [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1145 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-03 0:50 ` Matt Price @ 2010-09-03 20:12 ` Scot Becker 2010-09-03 20:55 ` Matt Price 2010-10-13 9:18 ` Jean-Marie Gaillourdet 0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Scot Becker @ 2010-09-03 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Price; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2689 bytes --] Another Zotero + org user here. Right now I do what Christian does: export Zotero to slightly tweaked <http://github.com/commonman/zotero-bibtex-sb>BibTeX, and insert with RefTeX's amazingly cool reference-insertion interface (another genius piece of work by Carsten). I can think of two profitable ways to make inserting references from one's Zotero database into org-mode notes better, and one further way that org-mode could be more tightly linked with Zotero. 1) A utility (presumably part firefox plugin) which keeps a BibTeX file in sync with one of Zotero's collections. That way you don't have to do a full manual export of your Zotero collection every time you add or change something. RefTeX provides the citation insertion interface. Something similar this to exists<https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/56806/>for LyX. It doesn't sync a whole Z. collection, but creates a .bib file with the items you actually cite in your document. The author (an Emacs user) even considered generalizing it for use without LyX runing, i.e. for Emacs, but didn't find enough steam (after all, he uses LyX). (I also know that Mendeley can be made to auto-import from Zotero and to auto-export to BibTeX, but Mendeley's BibTeX export is not flexible.) 2) a org-mode-specific plain-text citation mechanism, analogous to BibTeX, but useful for both LaTeX and non-LaTeX exports. It would presumably have a CSL backend, and work the way that citeproc-hs<http://code.haskell.org/citeproc-hs/>works for pandoc. Presumably it could also use a RefTeX-like interface for citation insertion. 3) Easier ways to take reading notes (in org) on items in the Zotero database, with two way linking. (Thanks already for the tips in this thread.) Scot On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 1:50 AM, Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> I have this notion I saw a generic exporter that someone wrote for odt, in >>> which you feed the exporter a template document which ocntains all the >>> relevant style definitions. but I can't find it anymore, and as I recall it >>> didn't really seem to work very well anyway. >>> >> >> ah, it was a muse-mode exporter: > http://www.mail-archive.com/muse-el-discuss@gna.org/msg01083.html > > would that be a good beginning for a native odt exporter i norg, or would > it be better to start from scratch with the org generic exporter? anyway > thanks, > m > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3860 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-03 20:12 ` Scot Becker @ 2010-09-03 20:55 ` Matt Price 2010-09-04 17:33 ` Scot Becker 2010-09-05 9:09 ` Christian Moe 2010-10-13 9:18 ` Jean-Marie Gaillourdet 1 sibling, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Matt Price @ 2010-09-03 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Scot Becker; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1539 bytes --] On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Scot Becker <scot.becker@gmail.com> wrote: > Another Zotero + org user here. Right now I do what Christian does: export > Zotero to slightly tweaked <http://github.com/commonman/zotero-bibtex-sb>BibTeX, and insert with RefTeX's amazingly cool reference-insertion > interface (another genius piece of work by Carsten). i'm getting nearly convinced to go this route. May I ask, do you use reftex from within org? I'm not quite sure on how that would wok (but also I'm not that familiar w/ the latex parts of the documentation...). > I can think of two profitable ways to make inserting references from one's > Zotero database into org-mode notes better, and one further way that > org-mode could be more tightly linked with Zotero. > > 1) A utility (presumably part firefox plugin) which keeps a BibTeX file in > sync with one of Zotero's collections. > sounds great. > 2) a org-mode-specific plain-text citation mechanism, analogous to BibTeX, > but useful for both LaTeX and non-LaTeX exports. It would presumably have a > CSL backend, and work the way that citeproc-hs<http://code.haskell.org/citeproc-hs/>works for pandoc. Presumably it could also use a RefTeX-like interface for > citation insertion. > yes, this would be the very best thing. > > 3) Easier ways to take reading notes (in org) on items in the Zotero > database, with two way linking. (Thanks already for the tips in this > thread.) > ditto! that would be super. wish i were in a position to createthese tools myself. matt [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2388 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-03 20:55 ` Matt Price @ 2010-09-04 17:33 ` Scot Becker 2010-09-05 9:09 ` Christian Moe 1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Scot Becker @ 2010-09-04 17:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Price; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1871 bytes --] Matt, On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Scot Becker <scot.becker@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Another Zotero + org user here. Right now I do what Christian does: >> export Zotero to slightly tweaked<http://github.com/commonman/zotero-bibtex-sb>BibTeX, and insert with RefTeX's amazingly cool reference-insertion >> interface (another genius piece of work by Carsten). > > i'm getting nearly convinced to go this route. May I ask, do you use > reftex from within org? I'm not quite sure on how that would wok (but also > I'm not that familiar w/ the latex parts of the documentation...). > Yes, RefTeX's job is just to insert a \cite{BibTeX_key} command. It doesn't care what the major mode is when you call it. And though I sympathize with the reasons not to use LaTeX for academic writing in the humanities (since few potential colaborators do, and publishers hardly ever will), recent developments in the BibTeX realm have reduced the problems there. If you haven't seen BibLaTeX<http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/biblatex.html>, have a look at it, it's a BibTeX replacement with much more flexibility. There are already a few interesting citation engines build on top of it: biblatex-chicago<http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/exptl/biblatex-contrib/biblatex-chicago/#jh393d9cb73b791d18abee756b61e67cb7>, which I use and am happy with (it's in-progress, but in very active development), and another biblatex style for historians<http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/biblatex-historian.html>(which I can't speak to.) The whole process of exporting a document of any complexity to MS Word format sounds daunting, but I'm glad to hear that others have had some success with it. Many thanks for starting this thread. I've learned a lot. Scot [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2587 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-03 20:55 ` Matt Price 2010-09-04 17:33 ` Scot Becker @ 2010-09-05 9:09 ` Christian Moe 1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Christian Moe @ 2010-09-05 9:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Price; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On 9/3/10 10:55 PM, Matt Price wrote: >export Zotero to slightly tweaked > <http://github.com/commonman/zotero-bibtex-sb> BibTeX, and insert > with RefTeX's amazingly cool reference-insertion interface > (another genius piece of work by Carsten). > > i'm getting nearly convinced to go this route. May I ask, do you use > reftex from within org? I'm not quite sure on how that would wok (but > also I'm not that familiar w/ the latex parts of the documentation...). Hi, You need to add a few lines to .emacs to make RefTex work with Org, described here: http://www.mfasold.net/blog/2009/02/using-emacs-org-mode-to-draft-papers/ (scroll down to "References") Raw latex citations like \cite{Smith2010} work fine. If you want a more elaborate and Org-like way of doing it, here is one way of doing it with custom link types: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/2406/match=bibliography I'm experimenting with some refinements, will post them here eventually. Yours, Christian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-03 20:12 ` Scot Becker 2010-09-03 20:55 ` Matt Price @ 2010-10-13 9:18 ` Jean-Marie Gaillourdet 2010-10-14 9:29 ` Scot Becker 1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Jean-Marie Gaillourdet @ 2010-10-13 9:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode List Hi, sorry to bring up this old thread, but there rather are rather new developments at Zotero which might interesting to people here. See below. On 03.09.2010, at 22:12, Scot Becker wrote: > Another Zotero + org user here. Right now I do what Christian does: export Zotero to slightly tweaked BibTeX, and insert with RefTeX's amazingly cool reference-insertion interface (another genius piece of work by Carsten). I can think of two profitable ways to make inserting references from one's Zotero database into org-mode notes better, and one further way that org-mode could be more tightly linked with Zotero. > > 1) A utility (presumably part firefox plugin) which keeps a BibTeX file in sync with one of Zotero's collections. That way you don't have to do a full manual export of your Zotero collection every time you add or change something. RefTeX provides the citation insertion interface. Something similar this to exists for LyX. It doesn't sync a whole Z. collection, but creates a .bib file with the items you actually cite in your document. The author (an Emacs user) even considered generalizing it for use without LyX runing, i.e. for Emacs, but didn't find enough steam (after all, he uses LyX). (I also know that Mendeley can be made to auto-import from Zotero and to auto-export to BibTeX, but Mendeley's BibTeX export is not flexible.) > Zotero.org announced a new desktop application which will use a public available read/write api to the Zotero service: > With full read/write access to bibliographic data, attached files like PDFs, > and the citation formatting engine, developers will be able to integrate a full > range of Zotero features into their own web, mobile, and desktop applications, > and users will be able to take advantage of this functionality at zotero.org. See http://www.zotero.org/blog/zoteros-next-big-step/ for more details. This should make it possible to use an official api to implement the use case described above. > 2) a org-mode-specific plain-text citation mechanism, analogous to BibTeX, but useful for both LaTeX and non-LaTeX exports. It would presumably have a CSL backend, and work the way that citeproc-hs works for pandoc. Presumably it could also use a RefTeX-like interface for citation insertion. > > 3) Easier ways to take reading notes (in org) on items in the Zotero database, with two way linking. (Thanks already for the tips in this thread.) Regards, Jean ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-10-13 9:18 ` Jean-Marie Gaillourdet @ 2010-10-14 9:29 ` Scot Becker 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Scot Becker @ 2010-10-14 9:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jean-Marie Gaillourdet; +Cc: emacs-orgmode List Jean, Even though I knew about this development at Zotero, It didn't occur to me that it might help org-Zotero integration. This is (or will be) pretty cool, when it happens. And I see that they already have the beginnings of an alpha release: http://www.zotero.org/blog/zotero-everywhere-first-look/ Scot On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Jean-Marie Gaillourdet <jmg@gaillourdet.net> wrote: > Hi, > > sorry to bring up this old thread, but there rather are rather new developments at Zotero which might interesting to people here. See below. > > > On 03.09.2010, at 22:12, Scot Becker wrote: > >> Another Zotero + org user here. Right now I do what Christian does: export Zotero to slightly tweaked BibTeX, and insert with RefTeX's amazingly cool reference-insertion interface (another genius piece of work by Carsten). I can think of two profitable ways to make inserting references from one's Zotero database into org-mode notes better, and one further way that org-mode could be more tightly linked with Zotero. >> >> 1) A utility (presumably part firefox plugin) which keeps a BibTeX file in sync with one of Zotero's collections. That way you don't have to do a full manual export of your Zotero collection every time you add or change something. RefTeX provides the citation insertion interface. Something similar this to exists for LyX. It doesn't sync a whole Z. collection, but creates a .bib file with the items you actually cite in your document. The author (an Emacs user) even considered generalizing it for use without LyX runing, i.e. for Emacs, but didn't find enough steam (after all, he uses LyX). (I also know that Mendeley can be made to auto-import from Zotero and to auto-export to BibTeX, but Mendeley's BibTeX export is not flexible.) >> > Zotero.org announced a new desktop application which will use a public available read/write api to the Zotero service: > >> With full read/write access to bibliographic data, attached files like PDFs, >> and the citation formatting engine, developers will be able to integrate a full >> range of Zotero features into their own web, mobile, and desktop applications, >> and users will be able to take advantage of this functionality at zotero.org. > > See http://www.zotero.org/blog/zoteros-next-big-step/ for more details. > > This should make it possible to use an official api to implement the use case described above. > >> 2) a org-mode-specific plain-text citation mechanism, analogous to BibTeX, but useful for both LaTeX and non-LaTeX exports. It would presumably have a CSL backend, and work the way that citeproc-hs works for pandoc. Presumably it could also use a RefTeX-like interface for citation insertion. >> >> 3) Easier ways to take reading notes (in org) on items in the Zotero database, with two way linking. (Thanks already for the tips in this thread.) > > Regards, > Jean > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-02 23:18 ` Matt Price 2010-09-02 23:56 ` Matt Price 2010-09-03 0:50 ` Matt Price @ 2010-09-03 21:30 ` Christian Moe 2010-09-03 22:36 ` Alan L Tyree 2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Christian Moe @ 2010-09-03 21:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Price; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi, I'm in the same situation, eager to do humanities in plain text. (One possibility is reStructuredText, with an elegant syntax and an excellent ODF exporter. But I love the Swiss-army-knife-ness of Org.) Just wondering two things: 1. Have you tried out Org > HTML > MS Word or OpenOffice, and how is it worse than mk4ht for someone who'd prefer not to learn latex? I find that this works amazingly well: - export HTML, delete the XML declaration - open HTML in OpenOffice and remove sections - select all, copy, paste into a new document, and save that document as .doc/.odt/.rtf (a bit cumbersome -- there ought to be an option to open HTML and Save As an office format, but I can't find it) This gives footnotes, tables, even bookmarks, with internal links to targets or custom IDs preserved. 2. Given that the above is a viable path to get Rich Text Format documents, have you tried {Smith, 1995, 6-7} citations and formatting with Zotero's RTF scan (http://www.zotero.org/support/rtf_scan)? It's another manual step, of course, so the whole process gets pretty lengthy, but it does let you format bibliographies for Word with Zotero from Org... Yours, Christian > this is certainly something I'd like to do. But i have the problem > that (1) I don't really know how to use latex, and was trying to avoid > what now seems like the necessary task of learning how to use it; and > (2) in my field (history) latex and bibtex are both pretty problematic > as export formats. Bibtex doesn't support most humanistic citation > styles (and has a rigid type strcture which doesn't accommodate things > like archival materials very well; while latex is neither an > acceptable submission format for most journals, nor a good formation > for collaboration with other scholars (since everyone else writes in > MS Word). This means that what I really need is a more robust > open-document exporter; but that's been giving me problem after > problem lately (for instance, mk4ht has stopped exporting some of my > most important documents, for reasons I don't understand but might be > related to org-mode's latex exporter. I have this notion I saw a > generic exporter that someone wrote for odt, in which you feed the > exporter a template document which ocntains all the relevant style > definitions. but I can't find it anymore, and as I recall it didn't > really seem to work very well anyway. > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-03 21:30 ` Christian Moe @ 2010-09-03 22:36 ` Alan L Tyree 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Alan L Tyree @ 2010-09-03 22:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mail; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 23:30:06 +0200 Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm in the same situation, eager to do humanities in plain text. > > (One possibility is reStructuredText, with an elegant syntax and an > excellent ODF exporter. But I love the Swiss-army-knife-ness of Org.) > > Just wondering two things: > > 1. Have you tried out Org > HTML > MS Word or OpenOffice, and how is > it worse than mk4ht for someone who'd prefer not to learn latex? > > I find that this works amazingly well: > - export HTML, delete the XML declaration > - open HTML in OpenOffice and remove sections > - select all, copy, paste into a new document, and save that document > as .doc/.odt/.rtf (a bit cumbersome -- there ought to be an option to > open HTML and Save As an office format, but I can't find it) > > This gives footnotes, tables, even bookmarks, with internal links to > targets or custom IDs preserved. You can use the same sequence using Abiword instead of OO. Abiword will read the XHTML file w/o the necessity to delete the heading, and will export directly to MS Word. I have only used it for relatively short documents (< 20 pages), so don't know how it will work on longer docs. Cheers, Alan > > 2. Given that the above is a viable path to get Rich Text Format > documents, have you tried {Smith, 1995, 6-7} citations and formatting > with Zotero's RTF scan (http://www.zotero.org/support/rtf_scan)? It's > another manual step, of course, so the whole process gets pretty > lengthy, but it does let you format bibliographies for Word with > Zotero from Org... > > Yours, > Christian > > > this is certainly something I'd like to do. But i have the problem > > that (1) I don't really know how to use latex, and was trying to > > avoid what now seems like the necessary task of learning how to use > > it; and > > (2) in my field (history) latex and bibtex are both pretty > > problematic as export formats. Bibtex doesn't support most > > humanistic citation styles (and has a rigid type strcture which > > doesn't accommodate things like archival materials very well; while > > latex is neither an acceptable submission format for most journals, > > nor a good formation for collaboration with other scholars (since > > everyone else writes in MS Word). This means that what I really > > need is a more robust open-document exporter; but that's been > > giving me problem after problem lately (for instance, mk4ht has > > stopped exporting some of my most important documents, for reasons > > I don't understand but might be related to org-mode's latex > > exporter. I have this notion I saw a generic exporter that someone > > wrote for odt, in which you feed the exporter a template document > > which ocntains all the relevant style definitions. but I can't > > find it anymore, and as I recall it didn't really seem to work very > > well anyway. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > -- Alan L Tyree http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan Tel: 04 2748 6206 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? 2010-09-02 16:19 how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? Matt Price 2010-09-02 19:45 ` David Maus @ 2010-09-02 21:35 ` Christian Moe 1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Christian Moe @ 2010-09-02 21:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Price; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi, That Zotero forum thread was interesting, thanks for pointing to it. With Scott Campbell's ZotSelect.js translator installed in Zotero, dragging and dropping an entry from Zotero into an Org test document results in e.g.: zotero://select//0_E35DK2TB/smith_twice-told_2001 Putting this in double square brackets gives an Org link: [[zotero://select//0_E35DK2TB/smith_twice-told_2001]] To make it do something, you don't even need the elisp he posted. In Org a link abbreviation with a shell command will do. On a Mac, once Fresno is installed in one's path, this should work: #+LINK: zotero shell:fresno -p "zotero:%s" After reloading, clicking that link and answering "yes" brings up Zotero in Firefox, with the correct entry selected. (Haven't tested it but I think something like #+LINK: zotero shell:firefox -remote "openurl(zotero:%s)" should work on Linux...?) Now, the question is, is this what you want to do? And what more do you want Org to do with Zotero? Personally, I use Zotero to collect references, but export them to BibTex (with a few tweaks to the translator) so I can use the much faster and less disruptive interface of RefTex to insert references into Org. But Scott Campbell's translator could save me from having to re-export my Zotero collection every time my writing calls for a reference I have to add to Zotero. Cheers, CM On 9/2/10 6:19 PM, Matt Price wrote: > Hi, > > This is all beyond me, but I was reading on the zotero forums about > efforts to integrate zotero citations in emacs: > http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/8306/testing-zoteroselect/ > Towards the end of hte thread is some useful-looking elisp code, and I > wondered how hard it would be to massage it into something org could > use? otero integration would be a big plus for me and doubtless an > increasing number of others. > > i fel like i've asked enough questions for a 24-hour period so i'l > ltry to stop now. > Matt > > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode -- Christian Moe E-mail: mail@christianmoe.com Website: http://christianmoe.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-10-14 9:29 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-09-02 16:19 how difficultwould it be to support zotero in org? Matt Price 2010-09-02 19:45 ` David Maus 2010-09-02 21:58 ` Christian Moe 2010-09-02 23:18 ` Matt Price 2010-09-02 23:56 ` Matt Price 2010-09-03 0:50 ` Matt Price 2010-09-03 20:12 ` Scot Becker 2010-09-03 20:55 ` Matt Price 2010-09-04 17:33 ` Scot Becker 2010-09-05 9:09 ` Christian Moe 2010-10-13 9:18 ` Jean-Marie Gaillourdet 2010-10-14 9:29 ` Scot Becker 2010-09-03 21:30 ` Christian Moe 2010-09-03 22:36 ` Alan L Tyree 2010-09-02 21:35 ` Christian Moe
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