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From: John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com>
Cc: Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu>,
	"emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>,
	John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Citations, continued
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 08:56:03 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m24mr4pgcs.fsf@andrew.cmu.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m2fvaoc49h.fsf@tsdye.com>


Thomas S. Dye writes:

> Aloha Richard,
>
> Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:
>
>> My point is not that the link syntax *can't* do enough.  Rather, my
>> point is that citations are conceptually distinct from links, and if we
>> are going to adopt an official syntax for them, that syntax should
>> reflect this conceptual distinction.  This is better for document
>> authors, because it is less work for us.  It gives us the right tool for
>> this particular job, instead of re-purposing a tool that, despite its
>> power, is designed for a different job.  It is thus better for the Org
>> community as a whole.
>
> I agree that citations are conceptually distinct from links, but at the
> same time they share many features.  Both can refer to something outside
> the Org mode document.  Both can be replaced in the Org mode export with
> something from outside the Org mode document.  The fact that links can
> be made to handle most users' citation needs is practical proof that the
> similarities are more than superficial.
>
> Now, I agree with you that Org mode links are not ideal for citations.
> Parsing the description is humbug and error-prone, and the descriptions
> look ungainly in the Org mode document.  I never remember to click
> citation links in the "right" place!  There is much room for improvement
> here.

I am not sure how much better it could get. What did you have in mind? I
could imagine for a cite link with several citations the click action
could give you an ido-completing/helm selection buffer and you choose
what you want to do from there. In org-ref the click action is user
definable, so you can get what you want.

>
> You and others are advocating a separate syntax for links and citations,
> which might indeed be the way to go.  I can see it being much nicer than
> the current state of affairs with Org mode links.  The downside is that
> it will mean learning another set of rules, in addition to the existing
> rules for links.
>
> Several years ago, Samuel Wales suggested an extensible syntax example
> using link features
> (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2010-08/msg00404.html).
> At the time it seemed to me that this was a Lisp-y approach because it
> solved particular problems by generalizing or abstracting a language
> feature to include particulars that had previously fallen outside its
> ken.  I wanted something like this while I was working on implementing
> citation links for export to LaTeX.
>

I am totally for this idea! I have been pondering how to make a link
element with extra data in it for a while.


> Would it be feasible to generalize Org mode's link syntax, or make it
> extensible, so the overlap of link with citation is complete?
>
> All the best,
> Tom

--
Professor John Kitchin
Doherty Hall A207F
Department of Chemical Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
412-268-7803
@johnkitchin
http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu

  reply	other threads:[~2015-02-02 13:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-01-31 18:26 Citations, continued Richard Lawrence
2015-01-31 18:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-01 22:07   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 13:52     ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 17:25       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 18:09         ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 15:45     ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-01 22:06 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02  1:41   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02  4:43     ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-02 13:56       ` John Kitchin [this message]
2015-02-02 18:11         ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-02 19:38           ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 19:51           ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 22:47             ` Rasmus
2015-02-03  0:54             ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-03  1:36               ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 14:17       ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 16:58       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 14:07   ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 13:51 ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 15:09 ` Matt Price
2015-02-02 18:02 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 19:55   ` Rasmus
2015-02-03  1:56     ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-03  2:08       ` Vikas Rawal
2015-02-03 10:55         ` Rasmus
2015-02-04 10:35         ` Julian M. Burgos
2015-02-04 16:34           ` John Kitchin
2015-02-03 10:35       ` Rasmus
2015-02-03 12:00         ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-03 16:27           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-03 17:25             ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-03  3:58   ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-03  4:41     ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-03  7:30       ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-03 16:11         ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-04  6:30           ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-04 12:06             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-04 16:45               ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-06 10:27                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-06 22:41                   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-07 22:43                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08  2:46                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-08  9:46                         ` John Kitchin
2015-02-08 17:09                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-08 22:23                             ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-09  8:46                               ` e.fraga
2015-02-09 10:50                               ` Rasmus
2015-02-09 11:20                                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-09 11:37                                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-10  9:06                                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-09 15:09                                 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-10  8:55                                   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10  9:22                                     ` Rasmus
2015-02-10  9:41                                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10 10:01                                         ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 15:32                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-10  1:50                                 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-09 17:46                               ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-09 20:13                                 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10  1:32                                 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10  4:04                                   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-10  5:23                                     ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10  6:20                                       ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-08  9:58                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 17:18                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-08 18:18                             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08  9:28                       ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 10:18                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 10:50                           ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 12:36                             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 13:40                               ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 16:11                                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-09 10:02                                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 17:02                                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 17:29                                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-10  1:54                                   ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10  8:49                                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10  9:20                                       ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 10:05                                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10 10:36                                           ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 10:53                                           ` Andreas Leha
2015-02-10 15:03                                         ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10 15:54                                           ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 16:14                                             ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10 16:22                                         ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-10 16:44                                           ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-11  2:07                                             ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-11 10:19                                               ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-11 16:51                                                 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-13  2:31                                                   ` Matt Price
2015-02-11 10:47                                         ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-11 11:32                                           ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 16:04                                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-11  2:10                                         ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-11  2:48                                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-11  3:53                                             ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-06 23:37                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-06 23:16                 ` Rasmus
2015-02-04 17:44               ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-04 15:59             ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-04 17:58               ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-04 19:24                 ` Richard Lawrence

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