From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
To: Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Citations, continued
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 23:43:07 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87y4o9s5qc.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87fvaibr3k.fsf@berkeley.edu> (Richard Lawrence's message of "Fri, 06 Feb 2015 14:41:19 -0800")
Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:
>> Since full citations can only exist in a bracketed citation, there is no
>> reason to create a third object type for the latter. It acts as a mere
>> container only useful for lexer.
>
> I think this is not quite right: in my original terminology, `individual
> citation' is just an intermediate category. A bracketed/full citation
> contains at least one, but may contain many, `individual' citations,
> like:
>
> [See @Doe99, p. 3; also @Doe2000, p. 989.]
>
> This is a bracketed/full citation containing two individual citations,
> each with their own prefix and suffix.
You're right. I was confused about citations.
> I do think it's important to allow some markup in the prefix and suffix,
> because there are obvious uses where you might want emphasis, etc.
>
> My initial thought is that a prefix or suffix should only allow:
> - Entities and LaTeX fragments
> - Line breaks?
> - Macros
> - Text markup
>
> I'd also be happy without macros and line breaks, personally.
Fine.
What about the following set?
bold code entity italic latex-fragment line-break strike-through
subscript superscript underline superscript
>> That's why I suggested the [cite: ...] part in the first place, which
>> you dismissed quickly. It reduces backtracking a lot and can solve
>> easily some confusing situations.
>>
>> Of course I understand the need for compatibility with existing Pandoc
>> syntax, but I wouldn't want us to shoot ourselves in the foot. Even if
>> we don't use "cite:" markup, I think we should carefully specify current
>> syntax to avoid loopholes.
>
> Another interesting thing I learned from the Pandoc source is that,
> should we want to adopt "[cite: ...]" syntax, I think it would be pretty
> trivial for Pandoc to support it. (Worst case, they can copy-and-paste
> the Markdown citation parser and then add "cite:" in a couple of
> places.) So if this is necessary on the Org side for performance or
> ambiguity reasons, I am not against it.
>
> One question, though, is how this should work with in-text citations.
> Should I have to write:
>
> @Smith99 [cite:p. 33]
>
> or
>
> @Smith99 [cite:p. 33; see also @Doe2014]
>
> ?
To be clear, much like Rasmus, I don't like much in-text citations
syntax above. Actually, I would suggest to mimic footnotes, and handle
in-text citations with the same syntax as named footnotes.
Using the example from Erik Hetzner in the same thread, what about:
1. [cite:@item1] says blah.
2. [cite:@item1: p. 30] says blah.
3. [cite:@item1: p. 30, with suffix] says blah.
4. [cite:@item1: -@item2 p. 30; see also @item3] says blah.
5. A citation group [cite:: see @item1 p. 34-35; also @item3 chap. 3].
6. Another one [cite::see @item1 p. 34-35].
7. Citation with a suffix and locator [cite:: @item1 pp. 33, 35-37, and nowhere else].
8. A citation without locators [cite:: @item3].
9. Citation with suffix only [cite:: @item1 and nowhere else].
10. Like a citation without author: [cite:: -@item1], and now Doe
with a locator [cite:: -@item2 p. 44].
As a reminder, here is a possible output from the text above
1. Doe (2005) says blah.
2. Doe (2005, 30) says blah.
3. Doe (2005, 30, with suffix) says blah.
4. Doe (2005; 2006, 30; see also Doe and Roe 2007) says blah.
5. A citation group (see Doe 2005, 34–35; also Doe and Roe 2007, chap. 3).
6. Another one (see Doe 2005, 34–35).
7. Citation with a suffix and locator (Doe 2005, 33, 35–37, and nowhere else).
8. A citation without locators (Doe and Roe 2007).
9. Citation with suffix only (Doe 2005 and nowhere else).
10. Like a citation without author: (2005), and now Doe with a locator (2006, 44).
Note that space after the second colon is not mandatory. More
explicitly, syntax would be either
[cite:IN-TEXT-KEY]
or
[cite:IN-TEXT-KEY?:SPACE* CITATIONS]
where CITATIONS is any number of
PREFIX? KEY SUFFIX?
separated with semi-colons.
It is slightly more verbose, but also more regular and faster to parse.
Regards,
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-02-07 22:42 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-01-31 18:26 Citations, continued Richard Lawrence
2015-01-31 18:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-01 22:07 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 13:52 ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 17:25 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 18:09 ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 15:45 ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-01 22:06 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 1:41 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 4:43 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-02 13:56 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 18:11 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-02 19:38 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 19:51 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 22:47 ` Rasmus
2015-02-03 0:54 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-03 1:36 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 14:17 ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 16:58 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 14:07 ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 13:51 ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 15:09 ` Matt Price
2015-02-02 18:02 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 19:55 ` Rasmus
2015-02-03 1:56 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-03 2:08 ` Vikas Rawal
2015-02-03 10:55 ` Rasmus
2015-02-04 10:35 ` Julian M. Burgos
2015-02-04 16:34 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-03 10:35 ` Rasmus
2015-02-03 12:00 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-03 16:27 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-03 17:25 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-03 3:58 ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-03 4:41 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-03 7:30 ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-03 16:11 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-04 6:30 ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-04 12:06 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-04 16:45 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-06 10:27 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-06 22:41 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-07 22:43 ` Nicolas Goaziou [this message]
2015-02-08 2:46 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-08 9:46 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-08 17:09 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-08 22:23 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-09 8:46 ` e.fraga
2015-02-09 10:50 ` Rasmus
2015-02-09 11:20 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-09 11:37 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 9:06 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-09 15:09 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-10 8:55 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10 9:22 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 9:41 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10 10:01 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 15:32 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-10 1:50 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-09 17:46 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-09 20:13 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 1:32 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10 4:04 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-10 5:23 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10 6:20 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-08 9:58 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 17:18 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-08 18:18 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 9:28 ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 10:18 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 10:50 ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 12:36 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 13:40 ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 16:11 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-09 10:02 ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 17:02 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 17:29 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 1:54 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10 8:49 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10 9:20 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 10:05 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10 10:36 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 10:53 ` Andreas Leha
2015-02-10 15:03 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10 15:54 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 16:14 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10 16:22 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-10 16:44 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-11 2:07 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-11 10:19 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-11 16:51 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-13 2:31 ` Matt Price
2015-02-11 10:47 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-11 11:32 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 16:04 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-11 2:10 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-11 2:48 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-11 3:53 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-06 23:37 ` Rasmus
2015-02-06 23:16 ` Rasmus
2015-02-04 17:44 ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-04 15:59 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-04 17:58 ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-04 19:24 ` Richard Lawrence
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.orgmode.org/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=87y4o9s5qc.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr \
--to=mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr \
--cc=emacs-orgmode@gnu.org \
--cc=richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).