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From: Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Citations, continued
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 14:52:25 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87h9v4o1ye.fsf@gmx.us> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 87ioflmgkc.fsf@berkeley.edu

Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:
>
>> Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:
>>
>>> ...so the first step for introducing citation syntax to Org should be
>>> compiling a list of all the things such a syntax should represent.
>>
>> See also 
>>
>>   <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/72446>
>
> Within a citation, each reference to an individual work needs to be
> capable of containing:
>   1) a database key that references the cited work
>   2) prefix / pre-text
>   3) suffix / post-text
>   4) references to page/chapter/section/whatever numbers and ranges.
>      This is likely part of the prefix or suffix, but might be worth
>      parsing separately for localization or link-following behavior.
>   5) a way of indicating backend-agnostic formatting properties.
>      Examples of some properties users might want to specify are:

>      - displaying only some fields (or suppressing some fields) from a
>        reference record (e.g., journal, date, author)

Would this not be properties of the bibliography and not the citation?


> Citations as a whole also need:
>   6) [@6] a way of indicating formatting properties for specific export
>      backends.

I think the idea would be /not/ to have to consider specific backends.  If
you want special properties (say bold) for HTML could it not be solved by
a macro or a filter?  Probably I'm misunderstanding.

>      ...
>      - CSS or other styling class (HTML and derived backends; also
>        ODT?)

The user solves this by writing CSS.  Of course citations would be wrapped
in a span or whatever.

>      - properties describing how to treat emphasis and other
>        formatting that cannot appear in plain text (ASCII and other
>        plain text backends)

IMO this is solved by ox-ascii.el already.

> In addition to the syntax of citations themselves, the Org document
> would also need to represent the following metadata to support
> citations:
>   7) [@7] a pointer to one or more backend reference databases,
>      including in-document databases in org-bibtex format

This would be a huge win.

>   8) a reference to a citation style or style file

How does this work outside of LaTeX?

>   9) a reference to a locale file

There's already a #+BIBLIOGRAPHY or #+REFERENCES in ox-bibtex.el.  But
it's quite limited.

>   10) an indication of where the bibliography should be found in the
>       exported document (equivalent to \printbibliography, etc. in
>       LaTeX)


> I would like to know if others can think of anything else that should go
> on this list.  I am particularly interested in hearing from people who
> use (or want to use) citations with non-LaTeX export backends, since I
> am least familiar with how citations work in those types of documents.

I would use citations in html and even odt.  Put it's a hard problem
'cause there's nothing quite like bib(la)tex (to the best of my
knowledge).

> I have also been working on a proposal for citation syntax that I think
> will meet these requirements, which I will post separately.

Cool!  Let me know if I can help.  

I have mainly worked on regexps for the syntax I proposed in another email.

—Rasmus

-- 
The second rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club

  reply	other threads:[~2015-02-02 13:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-01-31 18:26 Citations, continued Richard Lawrence
2015-01-31 18:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-01 22:07   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 13:52     ` Rasmus [this message]
2015-02-02 17:25       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 18:09         ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 15:45     ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-01 22:06 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02  1:41   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02  4:43     ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-02 13:56       ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 18:11         ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-02 19:38           ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 19:51           ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 22:47             ` Rasmus
2015-02-03  0:54             ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-03  1:36               ` John Kitchin
2015-02-02 14:17       ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 16:58       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 14:07   ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 13:51 ` Rasmus
2015-02-02 15:09 ` Matt Price
2015-02-02 18:02 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-02 19:55   ` Rasmus
2015-02-03  1:56     ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-03  2:08       ` Vikas Rawal
2015-02-03 10:55         ` Rasmus
2015-02-04 10:35         ` Julian M. Burgos
2015-02-04 16:34           ` John Kitchin
2015-02-03 10:35       ` Rasmus
2015-02-03 12:00         ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-03 16:27           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-03 17:25             ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-03  3:58   ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-03  4:41     ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-03  7:30       ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-03 16:11         ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-04  6:30           ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-04 12:06             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-04 16:45               ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-06 10:27                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-06 22:41                   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-07 22:43                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08  2:46                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-08  9:46                         ` John Kitchin
2015-02-08 17:09                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-08 22:23                             ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-09  8:46                               ` e.fraga
2015-02-09 10:50                               ` Rasmus
2015-02-09 11:20                                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-09 11:37                                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-10  9:06                                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-09 15:09                                 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-10  8:55                                   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10  9:22                                     ` Rasmus
2015-02-10  9:41                                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10 10:01                                         ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 15:32                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-10  1:50                                 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-09 17:46                               ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-09 20:13                                 ` Rasmus
2015-02-10  1:32                                 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10  4:04                                   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-10  5:23                                     ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10  6:20                                       ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-08  9:58                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 17:18                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-08 18:18                             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08  9:28                       ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 10:18                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 10:50                           ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 12:36                             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 13:40                               ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 16:11                                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-09 10:02                                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-08 17:02                                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-08 17:29                                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-10  1:54                                   ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10  8:49                                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10  9:20                                       ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 10:05                                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-10 10:36                                           ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 10:53                                           ` Andreas Leha
2015-02-10 15:03                                         ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10 15:54                                           ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 16:14                                             ` John Kitchin
2015-02-10 16:22                                         ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-10 16:44                                           ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-11  2:07                                             ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-11 10:19                                               ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-11 16:51                                                 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-13  2:31                                                   ` Matt Price
2015-02-11 10:47                                         ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-11 11:32                                           ` Rasmus
2015-02-10 16:04                                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-11  2:10                                         ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-11  2:48                                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-11  3:53                                             ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-06 23:37                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-06 23:16                 ` Rasmus
2015-02-04 17:44               ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-04 15:59             ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-04 17:58               ` Erik Hetzner
2015-02-04 19:24                 ` Richard Lawrence

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