* Splitting mailing list
@ 2011-02-27 10:30 Julien Danjou
2011-02-27 11:43 ` Bastien
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 59+ messages in thread
From: Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-27 10:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
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Hi,
There's really a lot of trafic here, and it's more and more diffcult to
me to follow development related threads in all the usage realted
threads.
How about splitting the mailing list in a user and a development list?
--
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info
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_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
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Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 10:30 Splitting mailing list Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-27 11:43 ` Bastien 2011-02-27 14:09 ` Julien Danjou ` (3 more replies) 2011-02-27 16:23 ` Chris Thompson 2011-02-28 9:50 ` Torsten Wagner 2 siblings, 4 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-02-27 11:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Hi Julien, Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > How about splitting the mailing list in a user and a development list? I am in favor of using a [DEV] tag and stick to one single list. The path from users to developers (and to core Org developers) is a continuum, keeping this continuum on one list is a good thing. What other people think? -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 11:43 ` Bastien @ 2011-02-27 14:09 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-27 14:19 ` Gour 2011-02-27 14:22 ` Matthew Sauer ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-27 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1270 bytes --] On Sun, Feb 27 2011, Bastien wrote: > I am in favor of using a [DEV] tag and stick to one single list. This is not something automatic, so this is not something everyone will do. I won't think about it most of time and will forget, so… > The path from users to developers (and to core Org developers) is > a continuum, keeping this continuum on one list is a good thing. Your own vision of Org is probably that, so you'd subscribe to both list. I personally do not have enough time to care about users problems nor their features complaints for now, so spending time with developement subject only and not having to filter out usage related thread would make me gain an amount of time that I could spend on hacking Org. This is not something I'd propose on a low trafic list, but the number of mails here is getting bigger and bigger, and it's hard for me as a developer (and not as a maintainer like you) to just follow the stream of subject I am interested into (i.e. developement of Org). If some developers (like you) have more time to follow users subjects, nothing stop you to read both lists. At this point of trafic rate, not splitting is mostly killing people like me. :) -- Julien Danjou ❱ http://julien.danjou.info [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 835 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 14:09 ` Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-27 14:19 ` Gour 0 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Gour @ 2011-02-27 14:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 696 bytes --] On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 15:09:04 +0100 Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> wrote: > This is not something I'd propose on a low trafic list, but the number > of mails here is getting bigger and bigger, and it's hard for me as a > developer (and not as a maintainer like you) to just follow the stream > of subject I am interested into (i.e. developement of Org). I agree...atm I'd like to follow users-list only and traffic so big, that most of the time I just skip over threads. Sincerely, Gour -- “In the material world, conceptions of good and bad are all mental speculations…” (Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu) http://atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: CDBF17CA [-- Attachment #1.2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 836 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 11:43 ` Bastien 2011-02-27 14:09 ` Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-27 14:22 ` Matthew Sauer 2011-02-27 20:49 ` Alan L Tyree 2011-02-27 21:20 ` Jeff Horn 3 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Matthew Sauer @ 2011-02-27 14:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1392 bytes --] Even though I am not much into development I enjoy reading them as they are teaching me about how this works and hopefully I can move to doing DEV further down the road. Even if we had two lists I would just add a filter tag like I do now and sort them all into the same tag (well, maybe, maybe not). Maybe the DEV channel should be something that you are invited to join with send access but anyone could have read access too. If a question in the user channel fit the bill it could be resent or re-proposed into the DEV channel? Maybe that's too constricted for open development? I agree, two channels so you can get what you want but they need to have reference to each other and at least a few people on both. On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 5:43 AM, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote: > Hi Julien, > > Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > > > How about splitting the mailing list in a user and a development list? > > I am in favor of using a [DEV] tag and stick to one single list. > > The path from users to developers (and to core Org developers) is > a continuum, keeping this continuum on one list is a good thing. > > What other people think? > > -- > Bastien > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1976 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 11:43 ` Bastien 2011-02-27 14:09 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-27 14:22 ` Matthew Sauer @ 2011-02-27 20:49 ` Alan L Tyree 2011-02-27 22:53 ` Andrew J. Korty 2011-02-27 21:20 ` Jeff Horn 3 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Alan L Tyree @ 2011-02-27 20:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 12:43:59 +0100 Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote: > Hi Julien, > > Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > > > How about splitting the mailing list in a user and a development > > list? > > I am in favor of using a [DEV] tag and stick to one single list. > > The path from users to developers (and to core Org developers) is > a continuum, keeping this continuum on one list is a good thing. > > What other people think? I'm purely a user, but I would not be in favour of splitting the list. I find it interesting to have an insight into what the developers are doing, where org is headed. Use of a DEV tag would be good. Cheers, Alan > > -- > Bastien > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > -- Alan L Tyree http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan Tel: 04 2748 6206 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 20:49 ` Alan L Tyree @ 2011-02-27 22:53 ` Andrew J. Korty 2011-02-28 0:15 ` Alan L Tyree ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Andrew J. Korty @ 2011-02-27 22:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Alan L Tyree <alantyree@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm purely a user, but I would not be in favour of splitting the list. > I find it interesting to have an insight into what the developers are > doing, where org is headed. Use of a DEV tag would be good. I don't understand. If you like to read the development posts, why not subscribe to both lists? My concerns with a DEV tag are twofold: people would forget to add it, and it clutters the subject line. Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote: > The thing that is most difficult for me is the fact that I almost > never can read the entire subject header. Often I get to read only > the first word. Tags will make that worse. It was suggested once that we shorten the [Orgmode] tag to [Org]. That seems like a change everyone can agree with. Could one of the mailing list admins please make that change? Thanks, ajk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 22:53 ` Andrew J. Korty @ 2011-02-28 0:15 ` Alan L Tyree 2011-02-28 0:21 ` Matthew Sauer 2011-02-28 8:48 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 2:38 ` Nick Dokos 2011-02-28 10:46 ` Bastien 2 siblings, 2 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Alan L Tyree @ 2011-02-28 0:15 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-orgmode On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:53:44 -0500 "Andrew J. Korty" <ajk@iu.edu> wrote: > Alan L Tyree <alantyree@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I'm purely a user, but I would not be in favour of splitting the > > list. I find it interesting to have an insight into what the > > developers are doing, where org is headed. Use of a DEV tag would > > be good. > > I don't understand. If you like to read the development posts, why > not subscribe to both lists? My concerns with a DEV tag are twofold: > people would forget to add it, and it clutters the subject line. The development list wouldn't be very interesting without the intense interaction that it now has with users. The org list seems unique in this, at least for the lists that I have sometimes monitored. I take your point about the tags, however. No happy answer to any of this. Cheers, Alan > > Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote: > > > The thing that is most difficult for me is the fact that I almost > > never can read the entire subject header. Often I get to read only > > the first word. Tags will make that worse. > > It was suggested once that we shorten the [Orgmode] tag to [Org]. > That seems like a change everyone can agree with. Could one of the > mailing list admins please make that change? > > Thanks, > ajk > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > -- Alan L Tyree http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan Tel: 04 2748 6206 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 0:15 ` Alan L Tyree @ 2011-02-28 0:21 ` Matthew Sauer 2011-02-28 20:43 ` Eric S Fraga 2011-02-28 8:48 ` Julien Danjou 1 sibling, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Matthew Sauer @ 2011-02-28 0:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alan L Tyree; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2409 bytes --] I think that if it was kept as a single list the use of tags could allow (as long as people respect the tags) to filter and read only the types of threads they want to use. If we split the lists I would tag both with the same tag in my gmail box and read them all together, so it wouldn't really appear to be any different for me other than the people only reading dev tags or on the dev channel wouldn't see the user discussions. On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Alan L Tyree <alantyree@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:53:44 -0500 > "Andrew J. Korty" <ajk@iu.edu> wrote: > > > Alan L Tyree <alantyree@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I'm purely a user, but I would not be in favour of splitting the > > > list. I find it interesting to have an insight into what the > > > developers are doing, where org is headed. Use of a DEV tag would > > > be good. > > > > I don't understand. If you like to read the development posts, why > > not subscribe to both lists? My concerns with a DEV tag are twofold: > > people would forget to add it, and it clutters the subject line. > > The development list wouldn't be very interesting without the intense > interaction that it now has with users. The org list seems unique in > this, at least for the lists that I have sometimes monitored. > > I take your point about the tags, however. No happy answer to any of > this. > > Cheers, > Alan > > > > > Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > The thing that is most difficult for me is the fact that I almost > > > never can read the entire subject header. Often I get to read only > > > the first word. Tags will make that worse. > > > > It was suggested once that we shorten the [Orgmode] tag to [Org]. > > That seems like a change everyone can agree with. Could one of the > > mailing list admins please make that change? > > > > Thanks, > > ajk > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > > > > -- > Alan L Tyree http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan > Tel: 04 2748 6206 > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3462 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 0:21 ` Matthew Sauer @ 2011-02-28 20:43 ` Eric S Fraga 0 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Eric S Fraga @ 2011-02-28 20:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthew Sauer; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Alan L Tyree Matthew Sauer <improv.philosophy@gmail.com> writes: > I think that if it was kept as a single list the use of tags could allow (as > long as people respect the tags) to filter and read only the types of > threads they want to use. > > If we split the lists I would tag both with the same tag in my gmail box and > read them all together, so it wouldn't really appear to be any different for > me other than the people only reading dev tags or on the dev channel > wouldn't see the user discussions. I'm happy either way as I am interested in all org related emails. If split, I would see no difference in the end: the emails from the two lists would end up back in the same list for me as I use filtering (gnus splitting to be precise) to distribute my many emails automatically to their appropriate folders. However, I don't think the volume in this list is that large, assuming readers are using smart mail tools. Especially with threading, it's relatively easy to delete or ignore whole threads at once if they are not of interest. Not that I do that very often with org threads, mind you ;-) -- : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1 : using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.553.g83b7.dirty) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 0:15 ` Alan L Tyree 2011-02-28 0:21 ` Matthew Sauer @ 2011-02-28 8:48 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 9:48 ` Alan Tyree 1 sibling, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-28 8:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alan L Tyree; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 412 bytes --] On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Alan L Tyree wrote: > The development list wouldn't be very interesting without the intense > interaction that it now has with users. The org list seems unique in > this, at least for the lists that I have sometimes monitored. No, really, it's not that unique. And many project still works correctly with several mailing list. -- Julien Danjou ❱ http://julien.danjou.info [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 835 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 8:48 ` Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-28 9:48 ` Alan Tyree 0 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Alan Tyree @ 2011-02-28 9:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alan L Tyree, emacs-orgmode; +Cc: Julien Danjou [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1162 bytes --] On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> wrote: > On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Alan L Tyree wrote: > > > The development list wouldn't be very interesting without the intense > > interaction that it now has with users. The org list seems unique in > > this, at least for the lists that I have sometimes monitored. > > No, really, it's not that unique. And many project still works correctly > with several mailing list. > I know that most projects work this way, and I am sure that Org would survive and prosper no matter what the decision is here. I still say, of the lists that I have monitored (not many - I am a retired Law Professor with only a slight knowledge of software development) the Org list is the most interesting. It's just a personal preference - I don't see any decisive argument for any of the possible decisions on splitting the list. Whatever happens, many thanks to all the Org developers for some great software. Cheers, Alan > > -- > Julien Danjou > ❱ http://julien.danjou.info > -- Alan L Tyree http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan Tel: 04 2748 6206 [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1822 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 22:53 ` Andrew J. Korty 2011-02-28 0:15 ` Alan L Tyree @ 2011-02-28 2:38 ` Nick Dokos 2011-02-28 10:46 ` Bastien 2 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Nick Dokos @ 2011-02-28 2:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrew J. Korty; +Cc: nicholas.dokos, emacs-orgmode Andrew J. Korty <ajk@iu.edu> wrote: > Alan L Tyree <alantyree@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I'm purely a user, but I would not be in favour of splitting the list. > > I find it interesting to have an insight into what the developers are > > doing, where org is headed. Use of a DEV tag would be good. > > I don't understand. If you like to read the development posts, why not > subscribe to both lists? My concerns with a DEV tag are twofold: people > would forget to add it, and it clutters the subject line. > Agreed. > Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote: > > > The thing that is most difficult for me is the fact that I almost > > never can read the entire subject header. Often I get to read only > > the first word. Tags will make that worse. > > It was suggested once that we shorten the [Orgmode] tag to [Org]. That > seems like a change everyone can agree with. Could one of the mailing > list admins please make that change? > Agreed - even though I was probably the most vocal opponent of dropping the tag altogether, I have no problem with making it shorter. [Org] looks fine for the current list and if the dev list comes to pass it could perhaps get an [OrgD] tag (or even [OD]: overdosing on org is a good thing...) Thanks, Nick ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 22:53 ` Andrew J. Korty 2011-02-28 0:15 ` Alan L Tyree 2011-02-28 2:38 ` Nick Dokos @ 2011-02-28 10:46 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 12:12 ` Julien Danjou 2 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-02-28 10:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrew J. Korty; +Cc: mfo, emacs-orgmode, Carsten Dominik Hi Andrew, "Andrew J. Korty" <ajk@iu.edu> writes: > It was suggested once that we shorten the [Orgmode] tag to [Org]. That > seems like a change everyone can agree with. Could one of the mailing > list admins please make that change? I changed the [Orgmode] tag to [O]. This is short and unambiguous enough. Thanks for the reminder. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 10:46 ` Bastien @ 2011-02-28 12:12 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 12:44 ` Bastien 0 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-28 12:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: mfo, Andrew J. Korty, emacs-orgmode, Carsten Dominik [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 211 bytes --] On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Bastien wrote: > I changed the [Orgmode] tag to [O]. Couldn't you just drop it? Seriously, this [O] is useless and ridiculous. -- Julien Danjou ❱ http://julien.danjou.info [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 835 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 12:12 ` Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-28 12:44 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 12:58 ` Jambunathan K ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-02-28 12:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrew J. Korty; +Cc: mfo, emacs-orgmode, Carsten Dominik Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Bastien wrote: >> I changed the [Orgmode] tag to [O]. > > Couldn't you just drop it? > > Seriously, this [O] is useless and ridiculous. No, it's useful to people who filter emails through the subject line. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 12:44 ` Bastien @ 2011-02-28 12:58 ` Jambunathan K 2011-02-28 14:14 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 16:14 ` Nick Dokos 2 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2011-02-28 12:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > >> On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Bastien wrote: >>> I changed the [Orgmode] tag to [O]. >> >> Couldn't you just drop it? >> >> Seriously, this [O] is useless and ridiculous. > > No, it's useful to people who filter emails through the subject line. And more screen estate in the subject line for people with accessibility issues that are forced to use bigger fonts. Jambunathan K. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 12:44 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 12:58 ` Jambunathan K @ 2011-02-28 14:14 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 16:14 ` Nick Dokos 2 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-28 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: mfo, Andrew J. Korty, emacs-orgmode, Carsten Dominik [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 295 bytes --] On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Bastien wrote: > No, it's useful to people who filter emails through the subject line. It would be better to teach these people this is not a good practice rather than polluting the subject lines for everybody… -- Julien Danjou ❱ http://julien.danjou.info [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 835 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 12:44 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 12:58 ` Jambunathan K 2011-02-28 14:14 ` Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-28 16:14 ` Nick Dokos 2011-02-28 17:12 ` John Hendy 2011-03-01 11:50 ` Bastien 2 siblings, 2 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Nick Dokos @ 2011-02-28 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien Cc: mfo, Andrew J. Korty, nicholas.dokos, emacs-orgmode, Carsten Dominik Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote: > Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > > > On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Bastien wrote: > >> I changed the [Orgmode] tag to [O]. > > > > Couldn't you just drop it? > > > > Seriously, this [O] is useless and ridiculous. > Not to me. > No, it's useful to people who filter emails through the subject line. > Just to clarify my usage (since I was one of the people who argued for keeping a tag): I don't have an MUA filter for this (that would be easy enough to change) - the filter is my eyes: if I have time to spend on org-mode, I will look at an email tagged [Orgmode] [fn:1] If not, I skip it. If there is no distinguishing characteristic at this level, I have to resort to other methods just to see whether the email is relevant to me at this time (usually the author name is enough to classify the email correctly, but not always of course, in which case I might have to read (some of) the email to decide.) The tag saves me time. I sympathise with Samuel's reasons for maximizing information, hence I did not oppose the shortening of the tag. But this is the second time that I have had to defend keeping the tag and I hope that the rest of you will sympathise with my reasons for keeping the tag. Thanks, Nick Footnotes: [fn:1] or [Org] or [O] - I would have preferred [Org] but I'm willing to live with [O]. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 16:14 ` Nick Dokos @ 2011-02-28 17:12 ` John Hendy 2011-03-01 11:50 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: John Hendy @ 2011-02-28 17:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nicholas.dokos Cc: mfo, Bastien, Andrew J. Korty, emacs-orgmode, Carsten Dominik [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1439 bytes --] On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote: > Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote: > > > Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > > > > > On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Bastien wrote: > > >> I changed the [Orgmode] tag to [O]. > > > > > > Couldn't you just drop it? > > > > > > Seriously, this [O] is useless and ridiculous. > > > Not to me. > > Me either. The emails from this mailing list along account for 80% of my daily emails. With a tag and using gmail shortcuts, I can go down the list pressing j for next message and x to select it as I skim the titles to see if anything strikes me as of interest. When I have them all, I scan the senders and subjects once more to catch any accidental selections and then press # to delete. It would suck to actually read every subject to interpret it as mailing list or not *and* also be deciding if I wanted to open it. With the tag I just look for keywords like babel, beamer, lists, etc. to see if I think I'm interested. Mostly... I'm not. > > [fn:1] or [Org] or [O] - I would have preferred [Org] but I'm willing to > live with [O]. > Yeah, [O] seems weird to me even though there's nothing really wrong with it... I like [Org] more :) John > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2417 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 16:14 ` Nick Dokos 2011-02-28 17:12 ` John Hendy @ 2011-03-01 11:50 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-03-01 11:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nicholas.dokos; +Cc: mfo, Andrew J. Korty, emacs-orgmode, Carsten Dominik Hi Nick, Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes: > But this is the second time that I have had to defend keeping the tag > and I hope that the rest of you will sympathise with my reasons for > keeping the tag. Be reassured: at least I do. Hope we can move forward now. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 11:43 ` Bastien ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2011-02-27 20:49 ` Alan L Tyree @ 2011-02-27 21:20 ` Jeff Horn 2011-02-27 21:26 ` Jeff Horn 3 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Jeff Horn @ 2011-02-27 21:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode If the lists were split, I likely would have never submitted my first patch. I've learned more about programming and computing from the org-mode list than any other list. I'm in favor of the status quo. I make heavy use of mail tags. I almost always delete [PATCH] mails immediately, and pay special attention to [babel] mails, since I'm starting to use it more heavily. With modern filters and thread scoring, splitting may not be that beneficial on the whole. On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote: > Hi Julien, > > Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > >> How about splitting the mailing list in a user and a development list? > > I am in favor of using a [DEV] tag and stick to one single list. > > The path from users to developers (and to core Org developers) is > a continuum, keeping this continuum on one list is a good thing. > > What other people think? > > -- > Bastien > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > -- Jeffrey Horn http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 21:20 ` Jeff Horn @ 2011-02-27 21:26 ` Jeff Horn 2011-02-27 22:20 ` Samuel Wales 0 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Jeff Horn @ 2011-02-27 21:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Jeff Horn <jrhorn424@gmail.com> wrote: > If the lists were split, I likely would have never submitted my first > patch. I've learned more about programming and computing from the > org-mode list than any other list. I'm in favor of the status quo. I fired off the e-mail before reading other responses. I should point out that while Julien is right that Devs can read the user list as well, I'm not certain that users would read the dev list if they were split. I certainly avoided most dev discussions on other lists, but I've learned a lot from org-mode. But, I'm only one data point... > With modern filters and thread scoring, splitting may not be that > beneficial on the whole. Again, I spoke prematurely. Is it possible to funnel dev traffic to the user list, so subscriptions look like this? | mail source | mail receipt | |-------------+--------------------| | dev list | dev and user lists | | user list | user list | -- Jeffrey Horn http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 21:26 ` Jeff Horn @ 2011-02-27 22:20 ` Samuel Wales 2011-02-28 10:49 ` Bastien 0 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Samuel Wales @ 2011-02-27 22:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jeff Horn; +Cc: Bastien, emacs-orgmode The thing that is most difficult for me is the fact that I almost never can read the entire subject header. Often I get to read only the first word. Tags will make that worse. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 22:20 ` Samuel Wales @ 2011-02-28 10:49 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 15:03 ` Ian Barton 2011-02-28 17:05 ` Samuel Wales 0 siblings, 2 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-02-28 10:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Samuel Wales; +Cc: Jeff Horn, emacs-orgmode Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes: > The thing that is most difficult for me is the fact that I almost > never can read the entire subject header. Often I get to read only > the first word. Tags will make that worse. I hope the switch from [Orgmode] to [O] will make things easier for you. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 10:49 ` Bastien @ 2011-02-28 15:03 ` Ian Barton 2011-02-28 17:05 ` Samuel Wales 1 sibling, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Ian Barton @ 2011-02-28 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode >> The thing that is most difficult for me is the fact that I almost >> never can read the entire subject header. Often I get to read only >> the first word. Tags will make that worse. > > I hope the switch from [Orgmode] to [O] will make things easier for you. > Since we now have a single letter [O] for the main mailing list, wouldn't it make sense to use [D] for devel and [B] for Babel. Less visual clutter and better on small screens. Ian. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 10:49 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 15:03 ` Ian Barton @ 2011-02-28 17:05 ` Samuel Wales 2011-02-28 20:17 ` Konrad Hinsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Samuel Wales @ 2011-02-28 17:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: Jeff Horn, emacs-orgmode [O] is *much* better than [Orgmode]. Thank you. Looking forward to [OD] and [OB], if that's what we will use. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-28 17:05 ` Samuel Wales @ 2011-02-28 20:17 ` Konrad Hinsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Konrad Hinsen @ 2011-02-28 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Org Mode Mailing List On 28 Feb 2011, at 18:05, Samuel Wales wrote: > [O] is *much* better than [Orgmode]. Thank you. > > Looking forward to [OD] and [OB], if that's what we will use. Plus [OS], for discussions about splitting the mailing list. Konrad PS: Don't worry, this is my last post on this topic! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 10:30 Splitting mailing list Julien Danjou 2011-02-27 11:43 ` Bastien @ 2011-02-27 16:23 ` Chris Thompson 2011-02-27 16:56 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 9:50 ` Torsten Wagner 2 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Chris Thompson @ 2011-02-27 16:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Julien Danjou <julien <at> danjou.info> writes: > > Hi, > > There's really a lot of trafic here, and it's more and more diffcult to > me to follow development related threads in all the usage realted > threads. > > How about splitting the mailing list in a user and a development list? > I would prefer a split along different lines... A core Org mailing list (including Dev posts) and a separate Org-Babel mailing list. It appears that a solid majority of the posts in the current mailing list are Babel-related, and this is a very distinct subset of functionality that could easily and cleanly be split into its own list. Plus, it makes sense... not every Org user uses Babel. -- Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 16:23 ` Chris Thompson @ 2011-02-27 16:56 ` Julien Danjou 0 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-27 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Chris Thompson; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 452 bytes --] On Sun, Feb 27 2011, Chris Thompson wrote: > It appears that a solid majority of the posts in the current mailing list are > Babel-related, and this is a very distinct subset of functionality that could > easily and cleanly be split into its own list. Plus, it makes sense... not every > Org user uses Babel. Not sure splitting by feature is going to be a good first choice for spliting. -- Julien Danjou ❱ http://julien.danjou.info [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 835 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting mailing list 2011-02-27 10:30 Splitting mailing list Julien Danjou 2011-02-27 11:43 ` Bastien 2011-02-27 16:23 ` Chris Thompson @ 2011-02-28 9:50 ` Torsten Wagner 2011-02-28 11:02 ` Let's stick to one list for now (was: Splitting mailing list) Bastien 2 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Torsten Wagner @ 2011-02-28 9:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Hi, the same discussion was started a few month ago. Basically, at that time there was quickly some argument to drop [Orgmode] tag in the subject and try to reduce the tags to a certain amount. Basically, I can't see any logical reason to keep [Orgmode] since this is a org-mode list. Esp., nowadays people read mails on small screens on there mobile devices. E.g., the subject line on my android phone is nearly eaten up entirely by [Orgmode][babel], makes it very difficult to follow the list. Others argued they use it to separate quickly between different mailing list. Maybe shorten it to [OM] and introduce [DEV] to mark topics dev for development. However, I agree that splitting the list makes no differences to people who subscribe to both lists. Just some more points to think about Torsten On 02/27/2011 07:30 PM, Julien Danjou wrote: > Hi, > > There's really a lot of trafic here, and it's more and more diffcult to > me to follow development related threads in all the usage realted > threads. > > How about splitting the mailing list in a user and a development list? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Let's stick to one list for now (was: Splitting mailing list) 2011-02-28 9:50 ` Torsten Wagner @ 2011-02-28 11:02 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 11:34 ` Let's stick to one list for now Julien Danjou 0 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-02-28 11:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Torsten Wagner; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Dear all, thanks all for your input. Let's stick to one list for now, and let's try to use the [DEV] tag for emails that only target development. It's not automatic and people will forget sometimes, but on the overrall this will improve the readability of the list, for both developers and users. Right now developers can already focus on emails with [PATCH] tag and on the patchwork here: http://patchwork.newartisans.com/project/org-mode/list/ Julien, I guess your life would be easier if you get push access to the Org repo and an account on the patchwork -- so that you can test patches and improve them if needed. Would that be okay for you? This decision is not carved in stone -- but I'm about to release Org 7.5 and I don't want to undertake a mailing list split in the middle of this process. Let's see how things go till Org 7.6 and raise the question if that's an issue again by then. Thanks, -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 11:02 ` Let's stick to one list for now (was: Splitting mailing list) Bastien @ 2011-02-28 11:34 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 17:06 ` Eric Schulte 2011-02-28 17:53 ` Dan Davison 0 siblings, 2 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-28 11:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 840 bytes --] On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Bastien wrote: The point is that there's no gain in telling people to add "[DEV]" since they will forget (I will), and there is _no_ lose by splitting a list. I already splitted user list in some project and nothing bad happened. :) > Julien, I guess your life would be easier if you get push access to the > Org repo and an account on the patchwork -- so that you can test patches > and improve them if needed. > > Would that be okay for you? Well, access to the patchwork will at least allow me to contrate and work on dev things that have a patch, for sure. > This decision is not carved in stone -- but I'm about to release Org 7.5 > and I don't want to undertake a mailing list split in the middle of this > process. I understand that. -- Julien Danjou ❱ http://julien.danjou.info [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 835 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 11:34 ` Let's stick to one list for now Julien Danjou @ 2011-02-28 17:06 ` Eric Schulte 2011-02-28 17:09 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " Eric Schulte 2011-02-28 17:53 ` Dan Davison 1 sibling, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Eric Schulte @ 2011-02-28 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Bastien wrote: > > The point is that there's no gain in telling people to add "[DEV]" since > they will forget (I will), I disagree, [babel] tags have been working very well for some time now, even if the original poster forgets to add such a tag it often appears in subsequent replies. > and there is _no_ lose by splitting a list. I already splitted user > list in some project and nothing bad happened. :) > Again, I disagree. It is not clear what effect splitting would have on the list, and I doubt that there is a clean partition between dev and non-dev for many individual emails (not to mention entire threads). Best -- Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 17:06 ` Eric Schulte @ 2011-02-28 17:09 ` Eric Schulte 2011-02-28 18:14 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: " Nicolas ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Eric Schulte @ 2011-02-28 17:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode While there are changes to the administration of the mailing list. Would it be difficult to change the list signature from : _______________________________________________ : Emacs-orgmode mailing list : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode to : __ : Emacs-orgmode mailing list : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode (note the space after the double hyphen) at the beginning of the second signature. I /believe/ (but don't have any reference) that the "-- " string is the standard signature delimiter, and it would result in at least gnus, and probably other mailing agents, stripping the signature from replies by default. This isn't a huge deal, but it would reduce message noise on long threads. Best -- Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 17:09 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " Eric Schulte @ 2011-02-28 18:14 ` Nicolas 2011-02-28 18:58 ` Eric Schulte 2011-03-01 4:30 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " theo 2011-03-02 17:35 ` Bastien 2 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Nicolas @ 2011-02-28 18:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Schulte; +Cc: Bastien, emacs-orgmode Hello, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes: > While there are changes to the administration of the mailing list. > Would it be difficult to change the list signature from > > : _______________________________________________ > : Emacs-orgmode mailing list > : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > to > > : __ > : Emacs-orgmode mailing list > : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > (note the space after the double hyphen) at the beginning of the second > signature. I /believe/ (but don't have any reference) that the "-- " > string is the standard signature delimiter, and it would result in at > least gnus, and probably other mailing agents, stripping the signature > from replies by default. For that particular problem, I have #+begin_src emacs-lisp (setq gnus-parameters '(("string_matching_orgmode_list_folder" (banner . "_______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode")))) #+end_src Regards, -- Nicolas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 18:14 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: " Nicolas @ 2011-02-28 18:58 ` Eric Schulte 0 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Eric Schulte @ 2011-02-28 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Nicolas <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes: > Hello, > > "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes: > >> While there are changes to the administration of the mailing list. >> Would it be difficult to change the list signature from >> >> : _______________________________________________ >> : Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> >> to >> >> : __ >> : Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> >> (note the space after the double hyphen) at the beginning of the second >> signature. I /believe/ (but don't have any reference) that the "-- " >> string is the standard signature delimiter, and it would result in at >> least gnus, and probably other mailing agents, stripping the signature >> from replies by default. > > For that particular problem, I have > > #+begin_src emacs-lisp > (setq gnus-parameters > '(("string_matching_orgmode_list_folder" > (banner . "_______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode")))) > #+end_src > Thanks Nicolas, I'll add that to my gnus config now -- Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 17:09 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " Eric Schulte 2011-02-28 18:14 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: " Nicolas @ 2011-03-01 4:30 ` theo 2011-03-02 17:35 ` Bastien 2 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: theo @ 2011-03-01 4:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 28/02/2011 18:09, Eric Schulte wrote: > > (but don't have any reference) that the "-- " > string is the standard signature delimiter, and it would result in at > least gnus, and probably other mailing agents, stripping the signature > from replies by default. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3676#section-4.3 *4.3. Usenet Signature Convention* There is a long-standing convention in Usenet news which also commonly appears in Internet mail of using "-- " as the separator line between the body and the signature of a message. [...] A receiving agent needs to test for a signature line both before the test for a quoted line (see Section 4.5) and also after logically counting and deleting quote marks and stuffing (see Section 4.4) from a quoted line. - -- Freely yours, theo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNbHZIAAoJECkgngj8k9TvuMMH/2fbw2TPaM5lX4/I6c4/Dnty 7CeU4aMWwqJkGFUSSw+VwvuSN0feeFKXvL7vSzxGJuO+2m3xqPaGSkmteJ6zfxAT hl2/Nz278Jl9WhOEFugAqQys2efJO/52hfDF0x8Gruguy6AlMtrIyFzFImWc+06J Ayevgp1QyUBrpdmF3rLXnT5wQ60dE9PLhz/bCyfyVqaljerhWRVChyCSqfhSStWN LwPyjSUkmnvk1i8f4fuHT75Jpqg2RAkEHQ5akqSKKaNlJQEBkRe2gbsYmxnCoG2O aAkvmBRqoxsTL8ZuI6W3NOEX3cSMmXC/qtzrTKadF5+cDdU87t/PIkUoDcoORwI= =Bcww -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 17:09 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " Eric Schulte 2011-02-28 18:14 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: " Nicolas 2011-03-01 4:30 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " theo @ 2011-03-02 17:35 ` Bastien 2011-03-02 17:54 ` Eric Schulte ` (2 more replies) 2 siblings, 3 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-03-02 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Schulte; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi Eric, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes: > While there are changes to the administration of the mailing list. > Would it be difficult to change the list signature from > > : _______________________________________________ > : Emacs-orgmode mailing list > : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > to > > : __ > : Emacs-orgmode mailing list > : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode Done -- except that I used "-- ", not "__ ". "-- " is the standard separator for signatures. Thanks, -- Bastien -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-02 17:35 ` Bastien @ 2011-03-02 17:54 ` Eric Schulte 2011-03-02 18:22 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: " Nicolas 2011-03-02 21:44 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " Achim Gratz 2 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Eric Schulte @ 2011-03-02 17:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > Hi Eric, > > "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes: > >> While there are changes to the administration of the mailing list. >> Would it be difficult to change the list signature from >> >> : _______________________________________________ >> : Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> >> to >> >> : __ >> : Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > Done -- except that I used "-- ", not "__ ". > > "-- " is the standard separator for signatures. > Ah yes, "-- " is what I meant to send. Thanks -- Eric -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-02 17:35 ` Bastien 2011-03-02 17:54 ` Eric Schulte @ 2011-03-02 18:22 ` Nicolas 2011-03-02 18:51 ` theo 2011-03-03 8:25 ` Bastien 2011-03-02 21:44 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " Achim Gratz 2 siblings, 2 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Nicolas @ 2011-03-02 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hello, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: >> While there are changes to the administration of the mailing list. >> Would it be difficult to change the list signature from >> >> : _______________________________________________ >> : Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> >> to >> >> : __ >> : Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> : Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> : Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> : http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > Done -- except that I used "-- ", not "__ ". > > "-- " is the standard separator for signatures. It may be too late, but I don't think it is an adequate solution. A banner isn't a signature, but now, they look the same, regexp wise. And as signatures are searched from bottom to top, the banner, being the first in that order, will be found first. Thus, now, the banner will be fontified like a signature instead of the real one. If you try to hide the signature, you will only hide the banner, and so on. Regards, -- Nicolas -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-02 18:22 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: " Nicolas @ 2011-03-02 18:51 ` theo 2011-03-03 8:25 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: theo @ 2011-03-02 18:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien, Eric Schulte, emacs-orgmode -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello, On 02/03/2011 19:22, Nicolas wrote: > And as signatures are searched from bottom to top, the banner, being the > first in that order, will be found first. It would be better to search from top to bottom then. That's what most clients do. That way, you can have a regular signature, a ml signature, an antivirus signature, an antispam signature, and whatever may occur between you and the poster and discard all that crap. - -- librement, theo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNbpGZAAoJECkgngj8k9TvmD8IAIUVm1uw5XV2gcOzLtfl+h1D ij2Ec3sOaHsYDuDgdpuDgzwUKOsc9oCj3JBOoG525Fen2UxYRt2seLBx6E/uPXRi REHC8v8VzakW4qmyLaHA3zkaYSBOseqr8dKoK5YWmfRgJeREwCz0BJdU9vlR248V eBtDKc+Bjuj0Dz8SiwxxyBr83CBIjYD8m8heClAb6Xuc28jVzD1uYecI7k0FMwY7 A9/qKmU3X3AsLeH61SX6yNcFdwZy9uFWG4epnMhVKg6quFXvBmRdxhfEbMXpajlb sn28/mgMyORM78ZQg/pbED8WaWgukxhIayqKvVzQAzk/aQ3bks1IGduXeczo/28= =hVBW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-02 18:22 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: " Nicolas 2011-03-02 18:51 ` theo @ 2011-03-03 8:25 ` Bastien 2011-03-03 8:36 ` Gregor Zattler ` (5 more replies) 1 sibling, 6 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-03-03 8:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Schulte; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hello, I'm thinking of removing the banner completely. I don't think it is really useful, and having it as a signature is indeed confusing. Would people object? -- Bastien -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-03 8:25 ` Bastien @ 2011-03-03 8:36 ` Gregor Zattler 2011-03-03 13:49 ` Eric S Fraga ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Gregor Zattler @ 2011-03-03 8:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Hi Bastien, * Bastien <bzg@altern.org> [03. Mar. 2011]: > I'm thinking of removing the banner completely. I don't think it is > really useful, and having it as a signature is indeed confusing. Yeah! Get rid of it! > Would people object? Not me at least. It's an annoyance. Ciao, Gregor -- -... --- .-. . -.. ..--.. ...-.- -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-03 8:25 ` Bastien 2011-03-03 8:36 ` Gregor Zattler @ 2011-03-03 13:49 ` Eric S Fraga 2011-03-03 14:01 ` Bernt Hansen 2011-03-03 15:09 ` Julien Danjou ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Eric S Fraga @ 2011-03-03 13:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > Hello, > > I'm thinking of removing the banner completely. I don't think it is > really useful, and having it as a signature is indeed confusing. > > Would people object? > > -- > Bastien I would like to see it disappear... it is indeed confusing, especially now with the "-- "... Thanks, eric -- : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1 : using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.592.gc431) -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-03 13:49 ` Eric S Fraga @ 2011-03-03 14:01 ` Bernt Hansen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Bernt Hansen @ 2011-03-03 14:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric S Fraga; +Cc: Bastien, emacs-orgmode Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes: > Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > >> Hello, >> >> I'm thinking of removing the banner completely. I don't think it is >> really useful, and having it as a signature is indeed confusing. >> >> Would people object? >> -- Bastien > > I would like to see it disappear... it is indeed confusing, especially > now with the "-- "... I won't miss it either. Regards, Bernt -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-03 8:25 ` Bastien 2011-03-03 8:36 ` Gregor Zattler 2011-03-03 13:49 ` Eric S Fraga @ 2011-03-03 15:09 ` Julien Danjou 2011-03-03 15:12 ` Carsten Dominik 2011-03-03 16:33 ` Bastien ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Julien Danjou @ 2011-03-03 15:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 288 bytes --] On Thu, Mar 03 2011, Bastien wrote: > I'm thinking of removing the banner completely. I don't think it is > really useful, and having it as a signature is indeed confusing. > > Would people object? I agree and won't object. -- Julien Danjou ❱ http://julien.danjou.info [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 835 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 157 bytes --] -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-03 15:09 ` Julien Danjou @ 2011-03-03 15:12 ` Carsten Dominik 0 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Carsten Dominik @ 2011-03-03 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Julien Danjou; +Cc: Bastien, emacs-orgmode On Mar 3, 2011, at 4:09 PM, Julien Danjou wrote: > On Thu, Mar 03 2011, Bastien wrote: > >> I'm thinking of removing the banner completely. I don't think it is >> really useful, and having it as a signature is indeed confusing. >> >> Would people object? > > I agree and won't object. Same here. > > -- > Julien Danjou > ❱ http://julien.danjou.info > -- > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode - Carsten -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-03 8:25 ` Bastien ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2011-03-03 15:09 ` Julien Danjou @ 2011-03-03 16:33 ` Bastien 2011-03-03 17:02 ` Achim Gratz 2011-03-03 17:53 ` Nick Dokos 5 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-03-03 16:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Schulte; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > I'm thinking of removing the banner completely. I don't think it is > really useful, and having it as a signature is indeed confusing. Thanks to those who responded -- I've now removed this banner. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-03 8:25 ` Bastien ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2011-03-03 16:33 ` Bastien @ 2011-03-03 17:02 ` Achim Gratz 2011-03-03 17:53 ` Nick Dokos 5 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Achim Gratz @ 2011-03-03 17:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > I'm thinking of removing the banner completely. I don't think it is > really useful, and having it as a signature is indeed confusing. Please do. > Would people object? Not me... :-) Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-03 8:25 ` Bastien ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 2011-03-03 17:02 ` Achim Gratz @ 2011-03-03 17:53 ` Nick Dokos 2011-03-04 9:57 ` Julien Danjou 5 siblings, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Nick Dokos @ 2011-03-03 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: nicholas.dokos, emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote: > Hello, > > I'm thinking of removing the banner completely. I don't think it is > really useful, and having it as a signature is indeed confusing. > > Would people object? > There are a few times when I've needed to go to the listinfo page and I've followed the link from the banner. I'm sure there are other ways of doing that though, so it's a /small/ objection :-) Nick ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-03 17:53 ` Nick Dokos @ 2011-03-04 9:57 ` Julien Danjou 0 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Julien Danjou @ 2011-03-04 9:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nicholas.dokos; +Cc: Bastien, emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 840 bytes --] On Thu, Mar 03 2011, Nick Dokos wrote: > There are a few times when I've needed to go to the listinfo page > and I've followed the link from the banner. I'm sure there are other > ways of doing that though, so it's a /small/ objection :-) Yes, look at the mail headers: List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." <emacs-orgmode.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode>, <mailto:emacs-orgmode-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode> List-Post: <mailto:emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:emacs-orgmode-request@gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode>, <mailto:emacs-orgmode-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe> -- Julien Danjou ❱ http://julien.danjou.info [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 835 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-02 17:35 ` Bastien 2011-03-02 17:54 ` Eric Schulte 2011-03-02 18:22 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: " Nicolas @ 2011-03-02 21:44 ` Achim Gratz 2011-03-02 22:59 ` suvayu ali 2011-03-03 8:23 ` Bastien 2 siblings, 2 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Achim Gratz @ 2011-03-02 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes: > Done -- except that I used "-- ", not "__ ". > > "-- " is the standard separator for signatures. Yes, but the mailing list banner is not a signature. You will now have (by default) two signatures when replying, of which only the mailing list banner gets stripped by the MUA. Like this: > -- > Bastien ... and that should not happen. Somehow you also seem to have confused the mailing list software about the mailing list tag in the subject line: it doesn't correctly strip and re-insert it anymore on reply, so you get "Re: [O]" and "[O] Re:" and more variations on that theme. Last but not least Gmane hasn't caught on to that and now starts to show the "[O]" tag whereas "[Orgmode]" was always correctly stripped on the newsfeed. I can configure all of that away in Gnus, but I don't really see this as an improvement. Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Q+, Q and microQ: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-02 21:44 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " Achim Gratz @ 2011-03-02 22:59 ` suvayu ali 2011-03-03 8:23 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: suvayu ali @ 2011-03-02 22:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Achim Gratz; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Achim Gratz <Stromeko@nexgo.de> wrote: > Somehow you also seem to have confused the mailing list software about > the mailing list tag in the subject line: it doesn't correctly strip and > re-insert it anymore on reply, so you get "Re: [O]" and "[O] Re:" and > more variations on that theme. I think this was present even before the change. For an example look at this[1] (random) page from the archive. I have a feeling this behaviour depends on the responders MUA. [1] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2010-06/threads.html -- Suvayu Open source is the future. It sets us free. -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] Let's stick to one list for now 2011-03-02 21:44 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " Achim Gratz 2011-03-02 22:59 ` suvayu ali @ 2011-03-03 8:23 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-03-03 8:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Achim Gratz; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi Achim, Achim Gratz <Stromeko@nexgo.de> writes: > Somehow you also seem to have confused the mailing list software about > the mailing list tag in the subject line: it doesn't correctly strip and > re-insert it anymore on reply, so you get "Re: [O]" and "[O] Re:" and > more variations on that theme. It was a problem before. > Last but not least Gmane hasn't caught > on to that and now starts to show the "[O]" tag whereas "[Orgmode]" was > always correctly stripped on the newsfeed. I can configure all of that > away in Gnus, but I don't really see this as an improvement. I wrote to Lars Ingebrigtsen asking him if there is something I need to update on Gmane side. Thanks for pointing this, -- Bastien -- Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 11:34 ` Let's stick to one list for now Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 17:06 ` Eric Schulte @ 2011-02-28 17:53 ` Dan Davison 2011-02-28 18:10 ` Jambunathan K 2011-02-28 20:23 ` Jeff Horn 1 sibling, 2 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Dan Davison @ 2011-02-28 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Bastien wrote: > > The point is that there's no gain in telling people to add "[DEV]" since > they will forget (I will), and there is _no_ lose by splitting a list. I Hi Julien, No, I disagree with that. The two lists would have distinct compositions of the reader audience and that does have downsides. For example, - Those participating in a USER thread cannot rely to the same extent on DEVs listening, or as easily direct comments to DEVs, without messy cross-postings. DEV threads often start life as USER threads; that trajectory would be disrupted. - The probability of pure USERs learning DEV skills is reduced, since they have to actively seek the DEV list. I'm another one who came to Org as a USER with no abilities in elisp programming. Dan > already splitted user list in some project and nothing bad happened. :) > >> Julien, I guess your life would be easier if you get push access to the >> Org repo and an account on the patchwork -- so that you can test patches >> and improve them if needed. >> >> Would that be okay for you? > > Well, access to the patchwork will at least allow me to contrate and > work on dev things that have a patch, for sure. > >> This decision is not carved in stone -- but I'm about to release Org 7.5 >> and I don't want to undertake a mailing list split in the middle of this >> process. > > I understand that. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 17:53 ` Dan Davison @ 2011-02-28 18:10 ` Jambunathan K 2011-02-28 20:23 ` Jeff Horn 1 sibling, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2011-02-28 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode > DEV threads often start life as USER threads; For example, org-odt.el. Jambunathan K. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 17:53 ` Dan Davison 2011-02-28 18:10 ` Jambunathan K @ 2011-02-28 20:23 ` Jeff Horn 2011-03-01 11:55 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 1 reply; 59+ messages in thread From: Jeff Horn @ 2011-02-28 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dan Davison; +Cc: Bastien, emacs-orgmode On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Dan Davison <dandavison7@gmail.com> wrote: > Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > >> On Mon, Feb 28 2011, Bastien wrote: >> >> The point is that there's no gain in telling people to add "[DEV]" since >> they will forget (I will), and there is _no_ lose by splitting a list. I > > Hi Julien, > > No, I disagree with that. The two lists would have distinct compositions of the > reader audience and that does have downsides. For example, I would also like to re-emphasize my disagreement with Julien's opinion. There is something to lose by splitting the list, as I mentioned in the main thread: the mixture was entirely useful for me, and *quite* pedagogical. I think the readership would be asymmetric in the case of a split list. Research in behavioral economics suggests people should be given sane defaults to prevent a harmful status quo bias. I don't think most users ever attempt to read devel lists. I'd also like to register a theory as to why users don't read devel lists, and why this works for some other software: devs condescend to handle user issues. Most open source software is created by people who need the tool for personal use. They aren't necessarily interested in your corner cases. For org-mode, this isn't the case; I've never felt anything but welcomed by the people who usually develop. A split list might also hurt this natural connection devs have with org-mode users. Relationships are *especially* important where there aren't market forces (read: price) to discipline developers into listening to users demands. That's the truth about any platform (two-sided) market with a zero price. This may sound admittedly contrived, and a bit pumped up in regard to the size of the effect. But there is a difference between small, noticeable, and highly personal changes and a "_no_ lose" scenario. Top-down policies have to be made with these small effects in mind, with an eye toward unintended consequences of a change. (Strawman alert. Begging Julien's pardon...) "But," Julien might say, "my concerns count just as much as yours, and I don't really like managing all this user mail." That is true. But you are a power user and have many tools at your disposal to automate mail handling. There is a relatively easy end solution. A top-down change messes with the community ecosystem. Future users' concerns should count for something, even if not a full measure. -- Jeffrey Horn http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
* Re: Let's stick to one list for now 2011-02-28 20:23 ` Jeff Horn @ 2011-03-01 11:55 ` Bastien 0 siblings, 0 replies; 59+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2011-03-01 11:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jeff Horn; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Dan Davison Another issue with splitting is the problem of archiving. Looking for problems, solutions, hacks and code in one single mailing list has proven very useful so far -- I want to keep that. Thanks, -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 59+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-03-04 9:57 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 59+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-02-27 10:30 Splitting mailing list Julien Danjou 2011-02-27 11:43 ` Bastien 2011-02-27 14:09 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-27 14:19 ` Gour 2011-02-27 14:22 ` Matthew Sauer 2011-02-27 20:49 ` Alan L Tyree 2011-02-27 22:53 ` Andrew J. Korty 2011-02-28 0:15 ` Alan L Tyree 2011-02-28 0:21 ` Matthew Sauer 2011-02-28 20:43 ` Eric S Fraga 2011-02-28 8:48 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 9:48 ` Alan Tyree 2011-02-28 2:38 ` Nick Dokos 2011-02-28 10:46 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 12:12 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 12:44 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 12:58 ` Jambunathan K 2011-02-28 14:14 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 16:14 ` Nick Dokos 2011-02-28 17:12 ` John Hendy 2011-03-01 11:50 ` Bastien 2011-02-27 21:20 ` Jeff Horn 2011-02-27 21:26 ` Jeff Horn 2011-02-27 22:20 ` Samuel Wales 2011-02-28 10:49 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 15:03 ` Ian Barton 2011-02-28 17:05 ` Samuel Wales 2011-02-28 20:17 ` Konrad Hinsen 2011-02-27 16:23 ` Chris Thompson 2011-02-27 16:56 ` Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 9:50 ` Torsten Wagner 2011-02-28 11:02 ` Let's stick to one list for now (was: Splitting mailing list) Bastien 2011-02-28 11:34 ` Let's stick to one list for now Julien Danjou 2011-02-28 17:06 ` Eric Schulte 2011-02-28 17:09 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " Eric Schulte 2011-02-28 18:14 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: " Nicolas 2011-02-28 18:58 ` Eric Schulte 2011-03-01 4:30 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " theo 2011-03-02 17:35 ` Bastien 2011-03-02 17:54 ` Eric Schulte 2011-03-02 18:22 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: " Nicolas 2011-03-02 18:51 ` theo 2011-03-03 8:25 ` Bastien 2011-03-03 8:36 ` Gregor Zattler 2011-03-03 13:49 ` Eric S Fraga 2011-03-03 14:01 ` Bernt Hansen 2011-03-03 15:09 ` Julien Danjou 2011-03-03 15:12 ` Carsten Dominik 2011-03-03 16:33 ` Bastien 2011-03-03 17:02 ` Achim Gratz 2011-03-03 17:53 ` Nick Dokos 2011-03-04 9:57 ` Julien Danjou 2011-03-02 21:44 ` Automatic Org-mode mailing list signature -- Was: [O] " Achim Gratz 2011-03-02 22:59 ` suvayu ali 2011-03-03 8:23 ` Bastien 2011-02-28 17:53 ` Dan Davison 2011-02-28 18:10 ` Jambunathan K 2011-02-28 20:23 ` Jeff Horn 2011-03-01 11:55 ` Bastien
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