From: "Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus@gmail.com>
To: Vikas Rawal <vikasrawal@gmail.com>
Cc: org-mode mailing list <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 09:32:46 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAF-FPGPGFUQ58KKOwV_KbdC-nemxi3eQ6Jm-Az=FH9LGtxgRxQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALtzAB2BHULDOXaamUZFQh2H453Ekb6K7bkOHbU-dHPn98avwg@mail.gmail.com>
On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 8:09 AM Vikas Rawal <vikasrawal@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the general view of the community about this? Is there a comprehensive discussion of pros and cons of each?
Not really, but there's John's summary here:
https://github.com/jkitchin/org-ref#what-about-org-cite
The high-level discussion at the beginning, including the enumerated
points, seems right to me.
The following point that "org-cite does not meet my citation and
technical document publishing needs, and it was not possible to
integrate it into org-ref without compromising those" is more subject
to debate, particularly the first clause.
I don't see any practical advantage to the org-ref syntax and model,
unless you include cross-references and such.
But that's because I just don't think cross-references and indexes
should be handled in org-cite; I think if we need improvements in
existing cross-references etc support, we should add those there.
I suspect he's also meaning the different ways that citation
commands/styles are handled in the two systems.
Here's an example from org-ref 3:
[[citealp:See &kitchin-2015-examp page 2]]
Note that first piece: "citealp". That's the command, which org-ref
will output directly to LaTeX/Natbib as \citealp. Note that command
only makes sense for natbib.
Org-cite has a different abstraction here: the style/substyle system.
So the above would be ...
[cite/bare:See @kitchin-2015-examp page 2]
... and then whatever export processor would map that "bare" style to
the appropriate output.
So that leaves the last bit; the "not possible" point, which I can't
address. It would obviously be nice if org-ref supported org-cite in
the future.
> What is everyone doing? I was an org-ref user for long before I switched to org-cite. I can now shift to citar but since I am an ivy user, the switch is not trivial. Also, I like many helper functions that John has created, and would have to miss those if I do not use org-ref/org-ref-cite.
A month or so ago, John offered to turn over maintenance of
org-ref-cite to someone else, which might be one good option for
someone who uses ivy, in particular, and interested in developing it
further.
More generally, the modular design of org-cite should result, in time,
with diverse components, including for different completion
frameworks. For example, I think it'd be pretty easy to create an
insert process for helm-bibtex or ivy-bibtex, and a follow processor
for bibtex-completion.
Or alternatively, as citar now no longer requires bibtex-completion,
someone could write a small citar front-end for ivy as an insert
processor.
The whole point of the org-ctite design is it should be easy for users
to mix-and-match different pieces, and for documents to remain
compatible across users and export backends. It also allows developers
to focus on those small components.
Bruce
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-03-20 13:33 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-03-20 12:08 citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0 Vikas Rawal
2022-03-20 13:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-20 14:08 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-20 14:38 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 0:31 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 1:39 ` Timothy
2022-03-21 8:16 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 11:51 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 12:34 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 12:52 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 13:05 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 13:24 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 21:27 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-23 21:53 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 22:04 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-23 22:47 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-24 10:04 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 12:19 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 12:42 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 14:06 ` John Kitchin
2022-04-19 22:37 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 3:27 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-21 11:51 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 17:20 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-25 15:53 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-27 15:33 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-27 15:44 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-25 17:10 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-26 12:41 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-27 19:40 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-28 12:34 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-28 13:16 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-29 15:22 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-29 16:14 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-30 13:50 ` Denis Maier
2022-03-31 15:10 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-31 17:27 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-04-02 11:41 ` org-cite, CSL styles and space before citation Max Nikulin
2022-03-30 21:43 ` citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0 John Kitchin
2022-03-21 12:59 ` juh
2022-03-22 13:03 ` indieterminacy
2022-03-23 21:06 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-27 17:00 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-27 23:17 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 14:40 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-21 15:19 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 17:00 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-25 15:21 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-22 14:41 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-22 17:20 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 12:44 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-23 14:39 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 15:26 ` Eric S Fraga
2022-03-23 17:17 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-23 22:50 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-26 19:08 ` M. Pger
2022-03-22 23:52 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-23 16:30 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-23 23:04 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-25 16:30 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-27 15:38 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-27 23:18 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 13:32 ` Bruce D'Arcus [this message]
2022-03-20 13:42 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-03-20 18:12 ` Thomas S. Dye
2022-03-20 20:13 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-20 20:30 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-20 20:34 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 22:10 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-20 19:44 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 21:14 ` chris
2022-03-21 14:21 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 14:10 ` John Kitchin
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