From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 22:22:27 +0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <t1v87l$kso$1@ciao.gmane.io> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAF-FPGP_XuQ_Qqaf5UNHcR1fuom0nHBUmdq1wQFYB+Dktw1nYg@mail.gmail.com>
On 28/03/2022 20:16, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 8:37 AM Max Nikulin wrote:
>>
>> John, in another message (Sun, 27 Mar 2022 13:00:40 -0400)
>> https://list.orgmode.org/m24k3jnq0k.fsf@andrew.cmu.edu you clearly
>> stated a technical limitation that is a real reason why org-cite is not
>> an option for you and for some other users: performance has not been
>> optimized for large BibTeX databases. It is deserved to be mentioned.
>
> FWIW, Ihor posted a patch related to this a week or so ago.
I am optimistic concerning that patch since a couple of users confirmed
improvement, but it is up to John to decide if it is acceptable in
comparison to org-ref. I am unsure concerning startup time.
>> You even have managed to convince me that, besides adding missing style
>> names, some existing ones should be adjusted. noauthor/bare for citeyear
>> example makes for me much more sense ...
>
> This does need some attention, but there are wrinkles here.
>
> Citeyear is specific to author-date styles, while noauthor is intended
> to be more general.
Anyway citation style is rather specific for a particular CSL style. I
tried some styles:
https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/ieee.csl
https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/american-physics-society.csl
nature.csl science.csl and for all these styles even "author" is
meaningless since they are numeric styles.
So it is not more general. Switching CSL style means necessity to update
styles in each citations (unless it is possible to specify global or
per-cite mapping).
It seems modifiers are set of boolean flags (positive "year" or negative
"suppress-author") in citeproc.el, set of values in natbib, and a kind
of hierarchy in org-cite. From my point of view, set of constrains
(flags) is the most general variant in this list.
> I think it's probably a good idea to add "year" to the latex processors too.
I agree. Negations are more confusing when an author needs just year.
> "Year" would be much less portable. That doesn't mean that "year"
> couldn't be legitimate, in the sense of "I really need the year here".
I would say that if a citation style has no year than a warning should
be spat, but year should not appear since it is against the style.
Unsure if it is useful to have special command or style "query" that can
insert e.g. year, journal, or any other field disregarding style to
ensure that the text and the bibliography reference have not diverged,
but it is rather for descriptive text than for a citation.
> But that raises another question: How will citeproc-el know where this
> year is coming from, and how the year has to be formatted? That will
> have to be hardcoded in the processor as styles contain no information
> about this.
A fallback style (for the particular citation, for the whole document or
in global user preferences) might be specified for formatters missed in
the main style.
I have tried the following:
obt.bib:
@ARTICLE{schawlow1958iao,
author = {Schawlow, Arthur Leonard and Townes, Charles Hard},
title = {Infrared and Optical Masers},
journal = {Phys. Rev.},
year = {1958},
volume = {112},
pages = {1940--1949},
month = {Dec},
doi = {10.1103/PhysRev.112.1940},
issue = {6},
publisher = {American Physical Society},
}
obt.org:
#+bibliography: obt.bib
# #+cite_export: csl
# #+cite_export: csl
/usr/share/citation-style-language/styles/chicago-author-date.csl
# #+cite_export: csl
/usr/share/citation-style-language/styles/american-physics-society.csl
- Default: [cite:@schawlow1958iao].
- text: [cite/text:@schawlow1958iao].
- noauthor: [cite/noauthor:@schawlow1958iao].
- year/bare: [cite/year/bare:@schawlow1958iao].
#+print_bibliography:
I am familiar with bst language used by BibTeX and I am surprised that
initials instead of full names are not enforced by CSL styles. Emphasis
and bold markers may appear in plain text export. Behavior of styles is
not uniform in respect to adding (unbreakable?) space before citation.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-03-29 15:23 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-03-20 12:08 citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0 Vikas Rawal
2022-03-20 13:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-20 14:08 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-20 14:38 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 0:31 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 1:39 ` Timothy
2022-03-21 8:16 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 11:51 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 12:34 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 12:52 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 13:05 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 13:24 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 21:27 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-23 21:53 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 22:04 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-23 22:47 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-24 10:04 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 12:19 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 12:42 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 14:06 ` John Kitchin
2022-04-19 22:37 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 3:27 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-21 11:51 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 17:20 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-25 15:53 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-27 15:33 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-27 15:44 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-25 17:10 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-26 12:41 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-27 19:40 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-28 12:34 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-28 13:16 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-29 15:22 ` Max Nikulin [this message]
2022-03-29 16:14 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-30 13:50 ` Denis Maier
2022-03-31 15:10 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-31 17:27 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-04-02 11:41 ` org-cite, CSL styles and space before citation Max Nikulin
2022-03-30 21:43 ` citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0 John Kitchin
2022-03-21 12:59 ` juh
2022-03-22 13:03 ` indieterminacy
2022-03-23 21:06 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-27 17:00 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-27 23:17 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 14:40 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-21 15:19 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 17:00 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-25 15:21 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-22 14:41 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-22 17:20 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 12:44 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-23 14:39 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 15:26 ` Eric S Fraga
2022-03-23 17:17 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-23 22:50 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-26 19:08 ` M. Pger
2022-03-22 23:52 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-23 16:30 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-23 23:04 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-25 16:30 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-27 15:38 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-27 23:18 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 13:32 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 13:42 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-03-20 18:12 ` Thomas S. Dye
2022-03-20 20:13 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-20 20:30 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-20 20:34 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 22:10 ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-20 19:44 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 21:14 ` chris
2022-03-21 14:21 ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 14:10 ` John Kitchin
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.orgmode.org/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to='t1v87l$kso$1@ciao.gmane.io' \
--to=manikulin@gmail.com \
--cc=emacs-orgmode@gnu.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).