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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: org-mode mailing list Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1647783211; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=TcuchTa6H7JhYde/TwZAOmZDAjMgixv2nEKa/YTvSf8=; b=U5+ZHxq9CSrudpiLRhouEX9c4aJv2jkPA5Y8AUxbF2tmWuyCG7+damNgDOx+Kx/wZVlMi2 +h0FXdxT9lDk+4NJwFzMGISOF8lgKMNb/UCXFQdV2Qzy+nzW85fADyOR+ZGSIMALLT3K6I jM0IrU17MwzS43EtL19W7wlZeIjk05rFDxln8k66rGWeiYfnRKvFfC7/MgjklpW8dW5FPK M7gqr+aK7ahisraiJqdBufQ8TJgCRKqfoauBQsfxiGEUiS4F94d88oWxBm2X9pvyJhtOTx wrUaVGUL3AXuKj9mse1UE54G3xK1A6FKK3kds37IVLIv1oG3tKyYwUmZ9SuAlg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1647783211; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ujmNg8JpEcj002HJ+2WqGJ/CKX/LAwGgTka2ibp7WUN2T9bfCOHynZ0i5JMJP4w80bGu1T 2nBi3Lr6PcrR3kafUma83ED7UTyzz8azOuEbZjM1LtYfQHh+UEYJy9xp3dckPkDDJIrtXM mYn/aW866wtcTpNQiEbAGMUQMIR+GEOx/ooRNPLqIcL5uONfxE2+h0dqtGRo8XGsFXg3+L laXFbTnWmWAvSIQEh9kQZ9+uGy5hq5dxmH+Kn3cboXp2R0g8QGt6L+xikEYh7A6KrAAZrf 1Ezcys3xc+SHt0IOycXcGAeC7waIty37Vo8WGHZ3hZmcNvzHYRM77J3MoTUNgw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=hlHljc2A; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.93 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=hlHljc2A; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7995E39A85 X-Spam-Score: -5.93 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: mYsynHmzR3lX On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 8:09 AM Vikas Rawal wrote: > What is the general view of the community about this? Is there a comprehe= nsive discussion of pros and cons of each? Not really, but there's John's summary here: https://github.com/jkitchin/org-ref#what-about-org-cite The high-level discussion at the beginning, including the enumerated points, seems right to me. The following point that "org-cite does not meet my citation and technical document publishing needs, and it was not possible to integrate it into org-ref without compromising those" is more subject to debate, particularly the first clause. I don't see any practical advantage to the org-ref syntax and model, unless you include cross-references and such. But that's because I just don't think cross-references and indexes should be handled in org-cite; I think if we need improvements in existing cross-references etc support, we should add those there. I suspect he's also meaning the different ways that citation commands/styles are handled in the two systems. Here's an example from org-ref 3: [[citealp:See &kitchin-2015-examp page 2]] Note that first piece: "citealp". That's the command, which org-ref will output directly to LaTeX/Natbib as \citealp. Note that command only makes sense for natbib. Org-cite has a different abstraction here: the style/substyle system. So the above would be ... [cite/bare:See @kitchin-2015-examp page 2] ... and then whatever export processor would map that "bare" style to the appropriate output. So that leaves the last bit; the "not possible" point, which I can't address. It would obviously be nice if org-ref supported org-cite in the future. > What is everyone doing? I was an org-ref user for long before I switched = to org-cite. I can now shift to citar but since I am an ivy user, the switc= h is not trivial. Also, I like many helper functions that John has created,= and would have to miss those if I do not use org-ref/org-ref-cite. A month or so ago, John offered to turn over maintenance of org-ref-cite to someone else, which might be one good option for someone who uses ivy, in particular, and interested in developing it further. More generally, the modular design of org-cite should result, in time, with diverse components, including for different completion frameworks. For example, I think it'd be pretty easy to create an insert process for helm-bibtex or ivy-bibtex, and a follow processor for bibtex-completion. Or alternatively, as citar now no longer requires bibtex-completion, someone could write a small citar front-end for ivy as an insert processor. The whole point of the org-ctite design is it should be easy for users to mix-and-match different pieces, and for documents to remain compatible across users and export backends. It also allows developers to focus on those small components. Bruce