emacs-orgmode@gnu.org archives
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 15:40:11 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2tubjmaoz.fsf@andrew.cmu.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <t1kt2u$p37$1@ciao.gmane.io>


Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

> On 21/03/2022 18:51, John Kitchin wrote:
>> citenum and bibentry are the only two I am not sure have a CSL analog.
>
> I read your messages once more and I should say that I feel some disagreement of
> this one (I removed most of it) and the earlier and longer one from Sun, 20 Mar
> 2022 20:31:29 -0400 https://list.orgmode.org/m2sfrc149c.fsf@andrew.cmu.edu
>
> I admit that org-ref is carefully tuned to your workflow. I hope, it is possible
> to left aside decomposition of org-cite into modules for some time.
>
> Let's assume org-cite with natbib backend for citations and org-ref for
> cross-references. It seems, a couple of missed styles currently is not a problem
> due to the defcustom for the mapping.
>
> Are there still any technical limitations that prevent getting in the exported
> LaTeX file the same citation commands as for org-ref?

If all one wants is LaTeX export, there are not technical limitations.
That is not all people want in general though, they also want other
exports, and that they are reasonably similar, or even possible. It is
easy to get \citenum and \bibentry for LaTeX. I promise though, someone
wants this or some other thing for HTML. 

Rather than rehash a lot of experiences, I really encourage you to try
writing a processor that can support this. Or even, try modifying
org-ref-cite to support it. Not as some thought experiment about what
should be possible, but an actual experiment that is worked out.

> In particular I am worrying concerning https://github.com/jkitchin/org-ref
> README (and the same phrase from the earlier message):
>
>> org-cite does not meet my citation and technical document publishing needs,
>> and it was not possible to integrate it into org-ref without compromising
>> those.

I have taken this out of the readme. I still agree with the sentiment,
but my needs are not the same as others (for example, I include in my
needs include ease of support and development, which is not a user
need), and it is possible to meet some basic needs fully.

> Does it refer to exported result or to convenience of working with citations?
> Would it help if it were possible to choose style by its natbib command?
>
> I see that you do not like org-cite styles, but I can not figure out what are
> the real blockers that prevent producing documents having the same
> quality.

If you spend enough time teaching people how to use these things, you
might feel differently about this. It is so easy to just switch away to
Endnote, Papers, Paperpile, Mendeley, Zotero, Overleaf, etc. I guess I
am not on the prevailing side here though.


-- 
Professor John Kitchin
Doherty Hall A207F
Department of Chemical Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
412-268-7803
@johnkitchin
http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
Pronouns: he/him/his


  parent reply	other threads:[~2022-03-27 19:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-03-20 12:08 citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0 Vikas Rawal
2022-03-20 13:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-20 14:08   ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-20 14:38     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21  0:31   ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21  1:39     ` Timothy
2022-03-21  8:16       ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 11:51         ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 12:34           ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 12:52             ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 13:05               ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 13:24                 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 21:27                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-23 21:53                   ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 22:04                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-23 22:47                       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-24 10:04                         ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-21 12:19       ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 12:42         ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 14:06           ` John Kitchin
2022-04-19 22:37             ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21  3:27     ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-21 11:51       ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 17:20         ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-25 15:53         ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-27 15:33           ` John Kitchin
2022-03-27 15:44             ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-25 17:10         ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-26 12:41           ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-27 19:40           ` John Kitchin [this message]
2022-03-28 12:34             ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-28 13:16               ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-29 15:22                 ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-29 16:14                   ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-30 13:50                     ` Denis Maier
2022-03-31 15:10                     ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-31 17:27                       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-04-02 11:41                         ` org-cite, CSL styles and space before citation Max Nikulin
2022-03-30 21:43                   ` citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0 John Kitchin
2022-03-21 12:59     ` juh
2022-03-22 13:03       ` indieterminacy
2022-03-23 21:06     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-27 17:00       ` John Kitchin
2022-03-27 23:17         ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 14:40   ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-21 15:19     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-21 17:00       ` John Kitchin
2022-03-25 15:21         ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-22 14:41       ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-22 17:20         ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 12:44           ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-23 14:39             ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-23 15:26               ` Eric S Fraga
2022-03-23 17:17               ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-23 22:50                 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-26 19:08               ` M. Pger
2022-03-22 23:52     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-23 16:30       ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-23 23:04         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-03-25 16:30           ` Max Nikulin
2022-03-27 15:38           ` John Kitchin
2022-03-27 23:18             ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 13:32 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 13:42 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-03-20 18:12   ` Thomas S. Dye
2022-03-20 20:13     ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-20 20:30       ` Vikas Rawal
2022-03-20 20:34       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 22:10         ` Dominik Schrempf
2022-03-20 19:44   ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-03-20 21:14     ` chris
2022-03-21 14:21       ` John Kitchin
2022-03-21 14:10     ` John Kitchin

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.orgmode.org/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=m2tubjmaoz.fsf@andrew.cmu.edu \
    --to=jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu \
    --cc=emacs-orgmode@gnu.org \
    --cc=manikulin@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).