Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Carsten Dominik]

Dear all,

I am having a lot of trouble keeping up with everything here in emacs- 
orgmode, in combination with the rest of my life.

Is there anyone who would be willing to step up as a co-maintainer, at  
least for some time?

The tasks would include looking at small patches people submit, making  
decision about whether to apply them, checking copyright issues, and  
applying the patches.  I will be around, so important decisions can be  
deferred to me.

People I know who would be technically able an have enough overview  
over Org include
a couple of obvious choices

Dan
Eric
Bastien
Nick
Bernt
David Maus
John Wiegley
Matt, maybe

I may well have overlooked someone else who could do this as well,  
please do not be offended if I left you off this list.

I completely understand if all of you say no, of course - this is just  
an attempt to keep some control of my life :-)

- Carsten

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Bastien]

Hi Carsten,

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> Is there anyone who would be willing to step up as a co-maintainer, at
> least for some time?

I'd be glad to help, but I'm short of time for the moment and I prefer
to concentrate on maintaining the server and Worg.

You made Org a project people would be proud to co-maintain, I'm sure
someone good will step in!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Dan Davison]

Bastien <bastien.guerry@wikimedia.fr> writes:

> Hi Carsten,
>
> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Is there anyone who would be willing to step up as a co-maintainer, at
>> least for some time?
>
> I'd be glad to help, but I'm short of time for the moment and I prefer
> to concentrate on maintaining the server and Worg.

I'm afraid I can't devote significantly more time. (In any case, I do
not know the agenda and task/time management side of org well enough.)

But I would be happy to help out in a, err, coalition. Would it be
possible for us to develop a slightly more formalised triage/bug
tracking system whereby any list member who feels able to can say "I'll
look into this and report back with a recommendation for
action". Perhaps this would work via a jointly maintained todo list on
Worg or elsewhere? Any thoughts? Or is this optimistic and do we really
need one person to step up?

Dan


>
> You made Org a project people would be proud to co-maintain, I'm sure
> someone good will step in!

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Carsten Dominik]

On May 19, 2010, at 3:17 PM, Dan Davison wrote:

> Bastien <bastien.guerry@wikimedia.fr> writes:
>
>> Hi Carsten,
>>
>> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Is there anyone who would be willing to step up as a co- 
>>> maintainer, at
>>> least for some time?
>>
>> I'd be glad to help, but I'm short of time for the moment and I  
>> prefer
>> to concentrate on maintaining the server and Worg.
>
> I'm afraid I can't devote significantly more time. (In any case, I do
> not know the agenda and task/time management side of org well enough.)
>
> But I would be happy to help out in a, err, coalition. Would it be
> possible for us to develop a slightly more formalised triage/bug
> tracking system whereby any list member who feels able to can say  
> "I'll
> look into this and report back with a recommendation for
> action". Perhaps this would work via a jointly maintained todo list on
> Worg or elsewhere? Any thoughts? Or is this optimistic and do we  
> really
> need one person to step up?

I think an issue-tracking system would be great.  And if there are  
other people besides John who want to take up individual issues, I am  
sure this would be good.

I will be happy with anything you propose in this direction.  Also I  
know that John is (I think) tracking ledger issues in org-mode - maybe  
we can use his setup in a file that is part of the git repo?

If we have reports continue to come in on the mailing list, then a bug  
tracker could use the message number on gmane as a reference number.   
So the discussions could stay on the list, but negotiation and  
assignment would happen in the tracker.

But - I have no experience with bug trackers, so anything anyone will  
put forward would be an improvement.

- Carsten

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Carsten Dominik]

On May 19, 2010, at 2:38 PM, Bastien wrote:

> Hi Carsten,
>
> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Is there anyone who would be willing to step up as a co-maintainer,  
>> at
>> least for some time?
>
> I'd be glad to help, but I'm short of time for the moment and I prefer
> to concentrate on maintaining the server and Worg.

Hi Bastien,

yes, you are doing already a crucial service to the community by  
sponsoring and maintaining the server, and Worg.

Thanks!

>
> You made Org a project people would be proud to co-maintain, I'm sure
> someone good will step in!
>
> -- 
> Bastien

- Carsten

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Thomas S. Dye]

Aloha Carsten,

 From my view on the list it appears you work without a queue, which  
seems counterintuitive for a Lisp programmer of Org-mode :)  But a  
queue for Carsten is not the answer because Org-mode people love the  
furious pace of development and would likely chafe at a slow queue.   
Perhaps what is needed are community queues for bugs, feature  
requests, and patches.

A list of proposed patches would let early adopters try them out.   
Once the patches had been tested, early adopters could report their  
results to the list.  Presumably this would weed out the bad patches,  
hone the good ones with flaws, and pass through the gems in good  
order.  Once the buzz on the list about a patch reached a certain  
level and you found time to look at the vetted result, early adopters  
could move off their bug-test branches and back onto the main branch.

This organization might maintain the pace of development activity, but  
put you in a position of working with a community managed queue at  
your leisure.

It is difficult for me to imagine the co-maintainer solution.

All the best,
Tom


On May 18, 2010, at 10:08 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I am having a lot of trouble keeping up with everything here in  
> emacs-orgmode, in combination with the rest of my life.
>
> Is there anyone who would be willing to step up as a co-maintainer,  
> at least for some time?
>
> The tasks would include looking at small patches people submit,  
> making decision about whether to apply them, checking copyright  
> issues, and applying the patches.  I will be around, so important  
> decisions can be deferred to me.
>
> People I know who would be technically able an have enough overview  
> over Org include
> a couple of obvious choices
>
> Dan
> Eric
> Bastien
> Nick
> Bernt
> David Maus
> John Wiegley
> Matt, maybe
>
> I may well have overlooked someone else who could do this as well,  
> please do not be offended if I left you off this list.
>
> I completely understand if all of you say no, of course - this is  
> just an attempt to keep some control of my life :-)
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Bernt Hansen]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> I am having a lot of trouble keeping up with everything here in emacs- 
> orgmode, in combination with the rest of my life.
>
> Is there anyone who would be willing to step up as a co-maintainer, at
> least for some time?
>
> The tasks would include looking at small patches people submit, making
> decision about whether to apply them, checking copyright issues, and
> applying the patches.  I will be around, so important decisions can be
> deferred to me.

Hi Carsten,

I would love to help!

I can probably handle some of the patch application load if that's
useful.  Let me know what you have in mind.

Unfortunately I also don't have much extra time available currently and
there are days when I don't get to read the org-mode mailing list at
all :(.

I still consider myself a lisp newbie and I don't have a clue about
Emacs portability issues etc.  I am slowly picking up lisp though and
reviewing patches would probably speed that process up a lot for me.

You've put in a super-human effort so far in this project and we all
appreciate it very much!

Let me know how I can help.

Regards,
Bernt

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[David Maus]

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Carsten Dominik wrote:
>Dear all,

>I am having a lot of trouble keeping up with everything here in emacs-
>orgmode, in combination with the rest of my life.

>Is there anyone who would be willing to step up as a co-maintainer, at
>least for some time?

>The tasks would include looking at small patches people submit, making
>decision about whether to apply them, checking copyright issues, and
>applying the patches.  I will be around, so important decisions can be
>deferred to me.

I do have some time at hand I can spend for maintenance tasks of Org.

As Thomas S. Dye has pointed out in
[mid:143D63FD-E8F2-4B1C-ABFD-DB11159E53CA@tsdye.com] something that
seems to be missing in Org development is kind of a queue for open
issues.[1]

IMO setting up patchwork as a semi-automated tracking system is a good
idea: As far as I could see from various projects that use patchwork
it actually /is/ kind of an issue tracker, tracking this special kind
of issues, patches.  If it is possible the patchwork installation
should not publish the submitters' mail addresses -- currently the
submitter's name is displayed with a mailto: link that contains the
email address.

Tracking patches with patchwork would leave open the question of other
kinds of issues: Bug reports w/o patches, feature requests, and
general user questions.  I'll try to track these issues and after I've
found a suitable work flow maybe put a file with open issues on Worg.

Both systems would form a queue of things to be done: The organizing
task consists of (a) reviewing non-patch-issues and (b) reviewing open
patch-issues in patchwork and (c) make decisions (e.g. apply patch,
comment, etc.).

This is something I volunteer to do.

HTH
 -- David

[1] todo.org in ORGWEBPAGE is definitely out of date (git blame)

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Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Matt Lundin]

Hi Carsten,

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> I am having a lot of trouble keeping up with everything here in emacs-
> orgmode, in combination with the rest of my life.
>
> Is there anyone who would be willing to step up as a co-maintainer, at
> least for some time?
>
> The tasks would include looking at small patches people submit, making
> decision about whether to apply them, checking copyright issues, and
> applying the patches.  I will be around, so important decisions can be
> deferred to me.

I'm happy to help out as much as my emacs-lisp and git skills allow.
Though others here are far more qualified to serve as an official
co-maintainer, I could try to pick up some of the slack by working on
any bug fixes, issues, patches, etc. you or the co-maintainer might be
willing to delegate.

Speaking of which, I've been meaning to sign papers with the FSF. I'll
do that ASAP.

I, too, vote for some sort of issue tracking system. Perhaps this could
be as simple as some of around us here replying to issues on the list
with an "I'll take a look at this" or "I'll take responsibility for
this." We've all been spoiled by your wonderfully quick and attentive
responses to mailing list posts. Perhaps, however, it's time for the
community to take more responsibility for claiming issues, bug fixes,
etc. within the first 24 to 48 hours of their arrival on the list. If an
issue proves too difficult to solve then the responsible party can defer
to your or the co-maintainer's expertise.

Since this is org-mode, I would prefer to use an org-mode file to track
issues. After all, the Wikipedia article on org-mode highlights its
suitability for "Distributed issue tracking."[1] The challenge, of
course, would be to coordinate this file with the mailing list. Perhaps
we could publish a remember template so that contributors, when claiming
an issue, can easily create a new todo (with a unique id) in the
org-issues file and publish the id in their reply: e.g., "opened and
claimed issue [ID number]." Just an idea...

Best,
Matt

Footnotes:

[1] Org-mode can be used as a distributed issue tracker, by storing .org
files in a distributed revision control system. Developers of the
org-babel extension to org-mode use org-mode in this way to track bugs
and feature requests. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Org-mode

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi David,

I think this i an excellent idea, and keeping this file on Worg so  
that people can access it on the web and modify it when needed is a  
good idea.

If everyone agrees, then I am glad to accept your offer to start a  
system like this.

Matt, I guess this covers pretty much exactly what you were proposing?

- Carsten

On May 20, 2010, at 4:22 PM, David Maus wrote:

> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>> Dear all,
>
>> I am having a lot of trouble keeping up with everything here in  
>> emacs-
>> orgmode, in combination with the rest of my life.
>
>> Is there anyone who would be willing to step up as a co-maintainer,  
>> at
>> least for some time?
>
>> The tasks would include looking at small patches people submit,  
>> making
>> decision about whether to apply them, checking copyright issues, and
>> applying the patches.  I will be around, so important decisions can  
>> be
>> deferred to me.
>
> I do have some time at hand I can spend for maintenance tasks of Org.
>
> As Thomas S. Dye has pointed out in
> [mid:143D63FD-E8F2-4B1C-ABFD-DB11159E53CA@tsdye.com] something that
> seems to be missing in Org development is kind of a queue for open
> issues.[1]
>
> IMO setting up patchwork as a semi-automated tracking system is a good
> idea: As far as I could see from various projects that use patchwork
> it actually /is/ kind of an issue tracker, tracking this special kind
> of issues, patches.  If it is possible the patchwork installation
> should not publish the submitters' mail addresses -- currently the
> submitter's name is displayed with a mailto: link that contains the
> email address.
>
> Tracking patches with patchwork would leave open the question of other
> kinds of issues: Bug reports w/o patches, feature requests, and
> general user questions.  I'll try to track these issues and after I've
> found a suitable work flow maybe put a file with open issues on Worg.
>
> Both systems would form a queue of things to be done: The organizing
> task consists of (a) reviewing non-patch-issues and (b) reviewing open
> patch-issues in patchwork and (c) make decisions (e.g. apply patch,
> comment, etc.).
>
> This is something I volunteer to do.
>
> HTH
> -- David
>
> [1] todo.org in ORGWEBPAGE is definitely out of date (git blame)
>
> --
> OpenPGP... 0x99ADB83B5A4478E6
> Jabber.... dmjena@jabber.org
> Email..... dmaus@ictsoc.de

- Carsten

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Matt Lundin]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> I think this i an excellent idea, and keeping this file on Worg so
> that people can access it on the web and modify it when needed is a
> good idea.
>
> If everyone agrees, then I am glad to accept your offer to start a
> system like this.
>
> Matt, I guess this covers pretty much exactly what you were proposing?

Yes, I very much like the idea. 

David: I look forward to seeing what you develop!

Best,
Matt

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Thomas Renkert]

What about using launchpad.net for bugtracking?

Bugreports and code reviews can be done via email so they could be cc:ed
to the traditional mailing list while they would show up at the same
time in the web interface.

Also, launchpad encourages more non-programming users to send in and
react on bugs and patches via the "answers"-interface.

By this, maybe at least some of the maintenance tasks can be distributed
more evenly among people who would occasionaly check out a few lines of
code but who don't feel familiar enough with lisp an a large scale.

Just a thought...

Cheers,
Thomas Renkert

Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[John Wiegley]

On May 20, 2010, at 10:22 AM, David Maus wrote:

> Both systems would form a queue of things to be done: The organizing
> task consists of (a) reviewing non-patch-issues and (b) reviewing open
> patch-issues in patchwork and (c) make decisions (e.g. apply patch,
> comment, etc.).
> 
> This is something I volunteer to do.

I currently use Org-mode to track issues in another open source project, Ledger.  It has worked quite well for me, but then I haven't had to share the contents of this file with other people yet.

I also have a Bugzilla running on the same server that now hosts Patchwork.  If you discover that such an issue tracker would be easier to manage for you, I'd be happy to setup an Org-mode product within it.

John

Re: Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[John Wiegley]

On May 20, 2010, at 1:52 PM, Thomas Renkert wrote:

> What about using launchpad.net for bugtracking?

GitHub also has simple issue tracking, with the advantage that it can bind very closely with Git commits.

John

Re: Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Greg Newman]

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I have a mirror of Org up on Bitbucket at
http://bitbucket.org/mirror/org-mode
It wouldn't take much to have Jesper turn on the issues feature for it if
there is interest. (just sayin)

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 5:34 PM, John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 20, 2010, at 1:52 PM, Thomas Renkert wrote:
>
> > What about using launchpad.net for bugtracking?
>
> GitHub also has simple issue tracking, with the advantage that it can bind
> very closely with Git commits.
>
> John
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Re: Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[John Wiegley]

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On May 20, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Greg Newman wrote:

> I have a mirror of Org up on Bitbucket at http://bitbucket.org/mirror/org-mode
> It wouldn't take much to have Jesper turn on the issues feature for it if there is interest. (just sayin)

I have a Git mirror on http://github.com/jwiegley/org-mode (have had for some time), and it's issue tracking feature is already on.

John

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Re: Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Greg Newman]

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wow.  I had no idea John.  Thanks for letting me know!!

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 6:24 PM, John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 20, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Greg Newman wrote:
>
> I have a mirror of Org up on Bitbucket at
> http://bitbucket.org/mirror/org-mode
> It wouldn't take much to have Jesper turn on the issues feature for it if
> there is interest. (just sayin)
>
>
> I have a Git mirror on http://github.com/jwiegley/org-mode (have had for
> some time), and it's issue tracking feature is already on.
>
> John
>

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Re: Co-maintainer, a least for some time?

[Uday S Reddy]

On 5/20/2010 6:52 PM, Thomas Renkert wrote:
> What about using launchpad.net for bugtracking?
>
> Bugreports and code reviews can be done via email so they could be cc:ed
> to the traditional mailing list while they would show up at the same
> time in the web interface.
>
> Also, launchpad encourages more non-programming users to send in and
> react on bugs and patches via the "answers"-interface.
>
> By this, maybe at least some of the maintenance tasks can be distributed
> more evenly among people who would occasionaly check out a few lines of
> code but who don't feel familiar enough with lisp an a large scale.

Plus 1 for Launchpad.

We use it for maintaining VM and the collection of facilities on the site work quite well.  The main downside is its over-reliance on the web.  The other is that it uses Bazaar for version control, which is probably not as streamlined as Git.

But Launchpad is an integrated project management site that allows you to schedule milestores/releases, allocate bugs/issues to them, and makes sure that everything gets done.  It provides for a variety of roles such as bug supervisor, driver, release manager etc., and allow for bugs/issues to be allocated to various members of the team.  For a large team of contributors, which is what Org mode seems to be tending towards, it could be a big win.

You can check out the VM home page, https://launchpad.net/vm, to see how it works.

Cheers,
Uday