RE: keeping track of sent emails in org?

RE: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Sullivan, Gregory (US SSA)]

Much of what I need to do is in some way related to email messages I
have received.  So, to the extent that org is my repository of things I
have to do and notes related to those things, links to related email
messages would be very useful.

--Greg

--
Gregory T. Sullivan, Ph.D.
BAE Systems Advanced Information Technologies
6 New England Executive Park, Burlington, MA 01803
781-262-4553 (office),  978-430-3461 (cell)
gregory.sullivan@baesystems.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: emacs-orgmode-bounces+gregory.sullivan=baesystems.com@gnu.org
[mailto:emacs-orgmode-bounces+gregory.sullivan=baesystems.com@gnu.org]
On Behalf Of Carsten Dominik
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:58 PM
To: Bill White
Cc: Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [Orgmode] keeping track of sent emails in org?

Hi,

I think there are interesting ideas coming up in this tasks, in  
particular the question if message IDs can be used to find articles in  
gnus, even if they have been moved around.  I am not sure if this  
questions has been fully answered, but I have not read the thread  
carefully enough yet, and certainly not tried Michaels code.

Right now I would like to take a little step back and understand  
better what the original poster is trying to do.

I can see that in an Emacs/Planner environment it makes sense to  
create links to sent emails on the days page.  The reason for this is  
that the planner day page is not only used for listing the planned  
tasks for the day, but also as a way of creating a daily journal.   
Sacha Chua's blog shows that she is using it just like that, and I  
think this is one of te unique and great features of planner.

However, the basic setup of Org is different.  There is no equivalent  
of a daily page.  The agenda views created by Org are dynamic and list  
tasks, and the tasks disappear when they are done.  Yes, you can look  
at the achievements of a day by checking closed tasks and log  
messages, but still this is no equivalent to the planner day pages  
which is a document that can be edited and preserved for the future.

Maybe you can create something similar with Org, but I think it is not  
straight forward.

On the other hand, every decent email program does have a SENT folder,  
and an easy way to list the emails sent on a specific date.

To me it seems that instead of creating a sequential list of links to  
emails for each day, it would be more interesting to create a way to  
collect links relating to a project or a task in the outline node of  
the project, or maybe in an attachment file of the project (if the  
list of emails is long).

Just my 5 cents.

- Carsten




On Oct 26, 2008, at 6:31 PM, Bill White wrote:

> Hi all -
>
> I'm looking into porting my planner/muse/gnus infrastructure to org.
> One indispensible bit of code in my current system writes a gnus  
> message
> link in the current day's planner file every time I send a message  
> from
> gnus.  It uses Sacha Chua's sacha/planner-gnus-track-sent method here:
>
> http://sachachua.com/notebook/wiki/2006.08.10.php#anchor-3
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.wiki.general/6017
>
> Has someone already written something like this for org?  Perhaps a
> remember-like mechanism that writes a link to, say, Email.org?   
> Perhaps
> messages could be filed under date headlines:
>
> * Sunday, October 26, 2008
> ** message 1 recipient:subject
> [link] (or contents?)
> ** message 2 recipient:subject
> [link] (or contents?)
>
> or somesuch.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts about this -
>
> bw
> -- 
> Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wolfram.com/billw
> "No ma'am, we're musicians."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode



_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Pete Phillips]

Hi Greg
>>>>> "Sullivan," == Sullivan, Gregory (US SSA) <gregory.sullivan@baesystems.com> writes:

    Sullivan,> Much of what I need to do is in some way related to email
    Sullivan,> messages I have received.  So, to the extent that org is
    Sullivan,> my repository of things I have to do and notes related to
    Sullivan,> those things, links to related email messages would be
    Sullivan,> very useful.

You should be able to do that already.

Not sure what mail agent you use, but I use MH-E. If I want to link a
mail msg to org, I do this:

     1 - Type C-c l (org-store-link) which stores this message in a
 buffer (may be a ring actually).

     2 - pop over to your org-mode buffer, get to the correct location
 (or use remember) and hit C-c C-l (org-insert-link)

That's it. Opening that link in org-mode will open up the email
message. 

I have mh-e set up to use mairix as my mail indexing tool, and a cron
job that runs mairix once an hour. Org-mode uses mairix to pull out the
message from the appropriate place (pretty sure it does this using the
message ID). The mh-e manual gives detailed instructions on setting up
mh-e with mairix (or other indexing tools, such as swish etc). I suspect
you could also use gnus, VM etc. 

Now clearly this depends on you using an emacs mail agent, but why
wouldn't you ?  You can spend your whole working life inside emacs. Add
viper-mode for those of us with vi hardwired into our brains, and you
have productivity Nirvana!  :-)  

Pete

keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Bill White]

Hi all -

I'm looking into porting my planner/muse/gnus infrastructure to org.
One indispensible bit of code in my current system writes a gnus message
link in the current day's planner file every time I send a message from
gnus.  It uses Sacha Chua's sacha/planner-gnus-track-sent method here:

http://sachachua.com/notebook/wiki/2006.08.10.php#anchor-3
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.wiki.general/6017

Has someone already written something like this for org?  Perhaps a
remember-like mechanism that writes a link to, say, Email.org?  Perhaps
messages could be filed under date headlines:

* Sunday, October 26, 2008
** message 1 recipient:subject
[link] (or contents?)
** message 2 recipient:subject
[link] (or contents?)

or somesuch.

Thanks for any thoughts about this -

bw
-- 
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wolfram.com/billw
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Sebastian Rose]

Hi Bill,


links are one of the great features of Org-mode. Basically, links are
added in two ways:

a) Remember templates (automatic):
    You're reading an email in Gnus or another emacs mail reader, and
    want to add a note somewhere. To do this, you set up (once) a
    so called 'remember template'. See
    http://orgmode.org/manual/Remember.html#Remember how to do this.
    Org automatically adds a link to the mail/file/whatever, which
    brings you back to that mail/file/whatever, as you click on it.

b) Semi-automatic:
    You want to add a link to an email/file/whatever to existing notes.
    To do this, visit the email/file/whatever and press 'C-c l'
    (org-store-link) to store a link to that location for later use.
    Back in your Org-file, you press 'C-c C-l' (org-insert-link),
    which provides you with a list of all stored links during your
    emacs session. You select the last one by pressing 'UP' once, and
    you're done.
    See http://orgmode.org/manual/Handling-links.html#Handling-links

c) By hand:
    Also, you may add links to locations by hand. The syntax for links
    is described here:
    http://orgmode.org/manual/Hyperlinks.html#Hyperlinks



Best regards,

   Sebastian





Bill White wrote:
> Hi all -
> 
> I'm looking into porting my planner/muse/gnus infrastructure to org.
> One indispensible bit of code in my current system writes a gnus message
> link in the current day's planner file every time I send a message from
> gnus.  It uses Sacha Chua's sacha/planner-gnus-track-sent method here:
> 
> http://sachachua.com/notebook/wiki/2006.08.10.php#anchor-3
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.wiki.general/6017
> 
> Has someone already written something like this for org?  Perhaps a
> remember-like mechanism that writes a link to, say, Email.org?  Perhaps
> messages could be filed under date headlines:
> 
> * Sunday, October 26, 2008
> ** message 1 recipient:subject
> [link] (or contents?)
> ** message 2 recipient:subject
> [link] (or contents?)
> 
> or somesuch.
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts about this -
> 
> bw

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Sebastian Rose]

Hi Bill,


to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to such a
mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's just a
question of the link format.

If no one has done this until now, please share it here. I use gnus,
but I still BCC myself to 'store' my outgoing mail :-)
As for me, I'd prefer a way to keep my outgoing mails directly in
gnus.



Something like this should work:


(setq org-remember-templates
       '(("sent-mails" ?m "* Mail sent %u\n %a\n" "organizer.org" "Sent")))

(defun my-store-link()
   "Docs for my-store-link"
   (org-remember ?m)) ;; the `m' is the short cut for the template.

(add-hook 'your-hook-here 'my-store-link)


I don't know how to suppress the interactive part of it (C-c C-c to
store it away), but sometimes you might add a short note anyway.



Regards,

    Sebastian

Sebastian Rose wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> 
> 
> links are one of the great features of Org-mode. Basically, links are
> added in two ways:
> 
> a) Remember templates (automatic):
>    You're reading an email in Gnus or another emacs mail reader, and
>    want to add a note somewhere. To do this, you set up (once) a
>    so called 'remember template'. See
>    http://orgmode.org/manual/Remember.html#Remember how to do this.
>    Org automatically adds a link to the mail/file/whatever, which
>    brings you back to that mail/file/whatever, as you click on it.
> 
> b) Semi-automatic:
>    You want to add a link to an email/file/whatever to existing notes.
>    To do this, visit the email/file/whatever and press 'C-c l'
>    (org-store-link) to store a link to that location for later use.
>    Back in your Org-file, you press 'C-c C-l' (org-insert-link),
>    which provides you with a list of all stored links during your
>    emacs session. You select the last one by pressing 'UP' once, and
>    you're done.
>    See http://orgmode.org/manual/Handling-links.html#Handling-links
> 
> c) By hand:
>    Also, you may add links to locations by hand. The syntax for links
>    is described here:
>    http://orgmode.org/manual/Hyperlinks.html#Hyperlinks
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
>   Sebastian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill White wrote:
>> Hi all -
>>
>> I'm looking into porting my planner/muse/gnus infrastructure to org.
>> One indispensible bit of code in my current system writes a gnus message
>> link in the current day's planner file every time I send a message from
>> gnus.  It uses Sacha Chua's sacha/planner-gnus-track-sent method here:
>>
>> http://sachachua.com/notebook/wiki/2006.08.10.php#anchor-3
>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.wiki.general/6017
>>
>> Has someone already written something like this for org?  Perhaps a
>> remember-like mechanism that writes a link to, say, Email.org?  Perhaps
>> messages could be filed under date headlines:
>>
>> * Sunday, October 26, 2008
>> ** message 1 recipient:subject
>> [link] (or contents?)
>> ** message 2 recipient:subject
>> [link] (or contents?)
>>
>> or somesuch.
>>
>> Thanks for any thoughts about this -
>>
>> bw
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> 

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Eric Schulte]

Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:

> Hi Bill,
>
>
> to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to such a
> mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
> 'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's just a
> question of the link format.
>

It seems like this could get complicated as it depends on how/where you
store your sent messages.  Also, it looks like org-mode links rely on
the gnus group, and article id to link back to an article, so somehow
you would need a hook which runs after the sent article has been saved
into a group and given an ID.  If this has been done before with
planner, then it should be fairly straightforward to examine the
previous implementation and adapt it to org-mode.  Or I could be
horribly wrong.

>
> If no one has done this until now, please share it here. I use gnus,
> but I still BCC myself to 'store' my outgoing mail :-)
> As for me, I'd prefer a way to keep my outgoing mails directly in
> gnus.
>

I'm straying slightly off topic here, but take a look at `gcc-self'
under gnus:Group Parameters.  It automatically saves a copy of outgoing
mail into the group from which the mail was sent.  I use the following
to turn it on for all of my mail groups.

(setq gnus-parameters
      '(("mail\\..*"
	 (gcc-self . t))))

Cheers -- Eric

> > >
> Something like this should work:
>
>
> (setq org-remember-templates
>       '(("sent-mails" ?m "* Mail sent %u\n %a\n" "organizer.org" "Sent")))
>
> (defun my-store-link()
>   "Docs for my-store-link"
>   (org-remember ?m)) ;; the `m' is the short cut for the template.
>
> (add-hook 'your-hook-here 'my-store-link)
>
>
> I don't know how to suppress the interactive part of it (C-c C-c to
> store it away), but sometimes you might add a short note anyway.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>    Sebastian
>
> Sebastian Rose wrote:
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>>
>> links are one of the great features of Org-mode. Basically, links are
>> added in two ways:
>>
>> a) Remember templates (automatic):
>>    You're reading an email in Gnus or another emacs mail reader, and
>>    want to add a note somewhere. To do this, you set up (once) a
>>    so called 'remember template'. See
>>    http://orgmode.org/manual/Remember.html#Remember how to do this.
>>    Org automatically adds a link to the mail/file/whatever, which
>>    brings you back to that mail/file/whatever, as you click on it.
>>
>> b) Semi-automatic:
>>    You want to add a link to an email/file/whatever to existing notes.
>>    To do this, visit the email/file/whatever and press 'C-c l'
>>    (org-store-link) to store a link to that location for later use.
>>    Back in your Org-file, you press 'C-c C-l' (org-insert-link),
>>    which provides you with a list of all stored links during your
>>    emacs session. You select the last one by pressing 'UP' once, and
>>    you're done.
>>    See http://orgmode.org/manual/Handling-links.html#Handling-links
>>
>> c) By hand:
>>    Also, you may add links to locations by hand. The syntax for links
>>    is described here:
>>    http://orgmode.org/manual/Hyperlinks.html#Hyperlinks
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>   Sebastian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill White wrote:
>>> Hi all -
>>>
>>> I'm looking into porting my planner/muse/gnus infrastructure to org.
>>> One indispensible bit of code in my current system writes a gnus message
>>> link in the current day's planner file every time I send a message from
>>> gnus.  It uses Sacha Chua's sacha/planner-gnus-track-sent method here:
>>>
>>> http://sachachua.com/notebook/wiki/2006.08.10.php#anchor-3
>>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.wiki.general/6017
>>>
>>> Has someone already written something like this for org?  Perhaps a
>>> remember-like mechanism that writes a link to, say, Email.org?  Perhaps
>>> messages could be filed under date headlines:
>>>
>>> * Sunday, October 26, 2008
>>> ** message 1 recipient:subject
>>> [link] (or contents?)
>>> ** message 2 recipient:subject
>>> [link] (or contents?)
>>>
>>> or somesuch.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any thoughts about this -
>>>
>>> bw
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Bill White]

On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 13:11, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to such a
>> mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
>> 'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's just a
>> question of the link format.
>>
>
> It seems like this could get complicated as it depends on how/where
> you store your sent messages.  Also, it looks like org-mode links rely
> on the gnus group, and article id to link back to an article, so
> somehow you would need a hook which runs after the sent article has
> been saved into a group and given an ID.  

Ah ha!  Something was bugging me about org's links to gnus messages.

From what I've seen so far in my cursory tours of org, links to gnus
nnml messages are, by default, of the form <group#nnmlFileName> rather
than <messageID>.  Message-ID is known and retrievable when gnus calls
message-sent-hook (which is how Sacha's link auto-filer works), but I'm
not sure the nnml filename is known at that point.

Can org create message-id links to gnus messages?  (sorry, that's
probably a FAQ)

Cheers -

bw
-- 
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wolfram.com/billw
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Chris McMahan]

In the same area, has anyone had any experience with the VM links in
org mode?

I cannot get the link to take me to the specified message in vm.

I could be way off base here, but what is preventing Org mode from
just using the remember code from Planner. That seems to work out very
well, and would prevent org from reinventing the wheel.

- Chris

Bill White writes:
>On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 13:11, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
>>> to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to such a
>>> mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
>>> 'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's just a
>>> question of the link format.
>>>
>>
>> It seems like this could get complicated as it depends on how/where
>> you store your sent messages.  Also, it looks like org-mode links rely
>> on the gnus group, and article id to link back to an article, so
>> somehow you would need a hook which runs after the sent article has
>> been saved into a group and given an ID.  
>
>Ah ha!  Something was bugging me about org's links to gnus messages.
>
>From what I've seen so far in my cursory tours of org, links to gnus
>nnml messages are, by default, of the form <group#nnmlFileName> rather
>than <messageID>.  Message-ID is known and retrievable when gnus calls
>message-sent-hook (which is how Sacha's link auto-filer works), but I'm
>not sure the nnml filename is known at that point.
>
>Can org create message-id links to gnus messages?  (sorry, that's
>probably a FAQ)
>
>Cheers -
>
>bw
>-- 
>Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wolfram.com/billw
>"No ma'am, we're musicians."
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

-- 
================================
Chris McMahan | cmcmahan@one.net
================================

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 27, 2008, at 10:17 PM, Bill White wrote:

> On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 13:11, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
>>> to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to  
>>> such a
>>> mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
>>> 'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's  
>>> just a
>>> question of the link format.
>>>
>>
>> It seems like this could get complicated as it depends on how/where
>> you store your sent messages.  Also, it looks like org-mode links  
>> rely
>> on the gnus group, and article id to link back to an article, so
>> somehow you would need a hook which runs after the sent article has
>> been saved into a group and given an ID.
>
> Ah ha!  Something was bugging me about org's links to gnus messages.

Can Gnus in general find messages by message-id?  Then it would be  
nice if we could do that.  I believe the mhe interface does use  
message-id already, maybe others too.

Maybe some gnus-enables person would like to look into this and create  
patches?


- Carsten

>
>
> From what I've seen so far in my cursory tours of org, links to gnus
> nnml messages are, by default, of the form <group#nnmlFileName> rather
> than <messageID>.  Message-ID is known and retrievable when gnus calls
> message-sent-hook (which is how Sacha's link auto-filer works), but  
> I'm
> not sure the nnml filename is known at that point.
>
> Can org create message-id links to gnus messages?  (sorry, that's
> probably a FAQ)
>
> Cheers -
>
> bw
> -- 
> Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wolfram.com/billw
> "No ma'am, we're musicians."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Richard Riley]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> On Oct 27, 2008, at 10:17 PM, Bill White wrote:
>
>> On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 13:11, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi Bill,
>>>>
>>>> to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to
>>>> such a
>>>> mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
>>>> 'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's
>>>> just a
>>>> question of the link format.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It seems like this could get complicated as it depends on how/where
>>> you store your sent messages.  Also, it looks like org-mode links
>>> rely
>>> on the gnus group, and article id to link back to an article, so
>>> somehow you would need a hook which runs after the sent article has
>>> been saved into a group and given an ID.
>>
>> Ah ha!  Something was bugging me about org's links to gnus messages.
>
> Can Gnus in general find messages by message-id?  Then it would be
> nice if we could do that.  I believe the mhe interface does use
> message-id already, maybe others too.

gnus-summary-refer-article (message-id)

But only from the same group summary it seems.

I bet Sacha could have it done in minutes :-;

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Bill White]

On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 16:35, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:

> On Oct 27, 2008, at 10:17 PM, Bill White wrote:
>
>> On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 13:11, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi Bill,
>>>>
>>>> to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to
>>>> such a
>>>> mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
>>>> 'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's
>>>> just a
>>>> question of the link format.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It seems like this could get complicated as it depends on how/where
>>> you store your sent messages.  Also, it looks like org-mode links
>>> rely
>>> on the gnus group, and article id to link back to an article, so
>>> somehow you would need a hook which runs after the sent article has
>>> been saved into a group and given an ID.
>>
>> Ah ha!  Something was bugging me about org's links to gnus messages.
>
> Can Gnus in general find messages by message-id?  Then it would be
> nice if we could do that.  I believe the mhe interface does use
> message-id already, maybe others too.

I know this link, generated by remember, works from planner:

[[gnus://nnml:wri.d-wpt/<49062748.8030208@wolfram.com>][E-Mail from Soandso]]

And this, generated from Sacha's code, also works from planner:

[[gnus://nnml:archive.2008-10/<87skqhivq8.fsf@wolfram.com>][Eric Schulte: Re: %5BOrgmode%5D keeping track of sent emails in org?]]

(I store this month's outgoing mail in ~/Mail/archive/2008-10)

I don't know how planner's gnus:// link works, though.

> Maybe some gnus-enables person would like to look into this and create
> patches?

Gnus-enabled and time-enriched :-)

> - Carsten
>
>> From what I've seen so far in my cursory tours of org, links to gnus
>> nnml messages are, by default, of the form <group#nnmlFileName>
>> rather than <messageID>.  Message-ID is known and retrievable when
>> gnus calls message-sent-hook (which is how Sacha's link auto-filer
>> works), but I'm not sure the nnml filename is known at that point.
>>
>> Can org create message-id links to gnus messages?  (sorry, that's
>> probably a FAQ)

Cheers -

bw
-- 
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wolfram.com/billw
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 27, 2008, at 10:49 PM, Bill White wrote:

> On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 16:35, Carsten Dominik  
> <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 27, 2008, at 10:17 PM, Bill White wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 13:11, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Bill,
>>>>>
>>>>> to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to
>>>>> such a
>>>>> mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
>>>>> 'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's
>>>>> just a
>>>>> question of the link format.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seems like this could get complicated as it depends on how/where
>>>> you store your sent messages.  Also, it looks like org-mode links
>>>> rely
>>>> on the gnus group, and article id to link back to an article, so
>>>> somehow you would need a hook which runs after the sent article has
>>>> been saved into a group and given an ID.
>>>
>>> Ah ha!  Something was bugging me about org's links to gnus messages.
>>
>> Can Gnus in general find messages by message-id?  Then it would be
>> nice if we could do that.  I believe the mhe interface does use
>> message-id already, maybe others too.
>
> I know this link, generated by remember, works from planner:
>
> [[gnus://nnml:wri.d-wpt/<49062748.8030208@wolfram.com>][E-Mail from  
> Soandso]]
>
> And this, generated from Sacha's code, also works from planner:
>
> [[gnus://nnml:archive.2008-10/<87skqhivq8.fsf@wolfram.com>][Eric  
> Schulte: Re: %5BOrgmode%5D keeping track of sent emails in org?]]
>
> (I store this month's outgoing mail in ~/Mail/archive/2008-10)
>
>
> I don't know how planner's gnus:// link works, though.

This looks to me that the link needs to know in which group the  
message is located, so such links will probably get broken when you  
move the message.  So when you create the link in a group, then move  
it to a different group or folder, does the link then still work?

- Carsten

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Bill White]

On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 16:59, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 27, 2008, at 10:49 PM, Bill White wrote:
>
>> On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 16:35, Carsten Dominik
>> <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 27, 2008, at 10:17 PM, Bill White wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 13:11, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Bill,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to
>>>>>> such a
>>>>>> mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
>>>>>> 'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's
>>>>>> just a
>>>>>> question of the link format.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems like this could get complicated as it depends on how/where
>>>>> you store your sent messages.  Also, it looks like org-mode links
>>>>> rely
>>>>> on the gnus group, and article id to link back to an article, so
>>>>> somehow you would need a hook which runs after the sent article has
>>>>> been saved into a group and given an ID.
>>>>
>>>> Ah ha!  Something was bugging me about org's links to gnus messages.
>>>
>>> Can Gnus in general find messages by message-id?  Then it would be
>>> nice if we could do that.  I believe the mhe interface does use
>>> message-id already, maybe others too.
>>
>> I know this link, generated by remember, works from planner:
>>
>> [[gnus://nnml:wri.d-wpt/<49062748.8030208@wolfram.com>][E-Mail from
>> Soandso]]
>>
>> And this, generated from Sacha's code, also works from planner:
>>
>> [[gnus://nnml:archive.2008-10/<87skqhivq8.fsf@wolfram.com>][Eric
>> Schulte: Re: %5BOrgmode%5D keeping track of sent emails in org?]]
>>
>> (I store this month's outgoing mail in ~/Mail/archive/2008-10)
>>
>>
>> I don't know how planner's gnus:// link works, though.
>
> This looks to me that the link needs to know in which group the
> message is located, so such links will probably get broken when you
> move the message.  So when you create the link in a group, then move
> it to a different group or folder, does the link then still work?

I don't know - I never do that.  Just a minute [fiddles with files...]

So I went to the archive group in gnus, moved the message to nnml:temp
via 'B m', then clicked the planner link to that message.

The code called by the link eventually calls 

   (gnus-summary-goto-article article-id nil t)

where article-id is, in my case, the message-id.  Somehow, gnus found
that message and displayed it *in the archive group* (with an article ID
number of -1) even though it isn't in that group anymore and I don't
have gnus-registry enabled.  There lurk gnus mysteries.

Dunno whether that helps :-/

Cheers -

bw
-- 
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wolfram.com/billw
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Michael Ekstrand]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1549 bytes --]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> On Oct 27, 2008, at 10:17 PM, Bill White wrote:
>> On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 13:11, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> It seems like this could get complicated as it depends on how/where
>>> you store your sent messages.  Also, it looks like org-mode links
>>> rely
>>> on the gnus group, and article id to link back to an article, so
>>> somehow you would need a hook which runs after the sent article has
>>> been saved into a group and given an ID.
>>
>> Ah ha!  Something was bugging me about org's links to gnus messages.
>
> Can Gnus in general find messages by message-id?  Then it would be
> nice if we could do that.  I believe the mhe interface does use
> message-id already, maybe others too.
>
> Maybe some gnus-enables person would like to look into this and create
> patches?

I have some code that does this in my Gnus configuration.  It is only
known to work for NNML, however, and I believe it depends on the
ID-tracking support used to enable the fancy-split-with-parent feature.
It does, however, successfully find messages across groups.

The Gnus registry could probably be used to enable similar support for
other backends.

I will try to get my code sane-ified and pushed to Worg sometime this
week.

- Michael

-- 
mouse, n: A device for pointing at the xterm in which you want to type.
Confused by the strange files?  I cryptographically sign my messages.
For more information see <http://www.elehack.net/resources/gpg>.

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 196 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Michael Ekstrand]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 804 bytes --]

Michael Ekstrand <michael@elehack.net> writes:
> I have some code that does this in my Gnus configuration.  It is only
> known to work for NNML, however, and I believe it depends on the
> ID-tracking support used to enable the fancy-split-with-parent feature.
> It does, however, successfully find messages across groups.
>
> The Gnus registry could probably be used to enable similar support for
> other backends.
>
> I will try to get my code sane-ified and pushed to Worg sometime this
> week.

I've pushed the code to Worg now, it's available in org-hacks.

- Michael

-- 
mouse, n: A device for pointing at the xterm in which you want to type.
Confused by the strange files?  I cryptographically sign my messages.
For more information see <http://www.elehack.net/resources/gpg>.

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 196 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 28, 2008, at 2:35 AM, Michael Ekstrand wrote:

> Michael Ekstrand <michael@elehack.net> writes:
>> I have some code that does this in my Gnus configuration.  It is only
>> known to work for NNML, however, and I believe it depends on the
>> ID-tracking support used to enable the fancy-split-with-parent  
>> feature.
>> It does, however, successfully find messages across groups.
>>
>> The Gnus registry could probably be used to enable similar support  
>> for
>> other backends.

Would it be possible to use the registry to make it possible to find  
messages anywhere in gnus, just by message id?

- Carsten

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Michael Ekstrand]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> On Oct 28, 2008, at 2:35 AM, Michael Ekstrand wrote:
>> Michael Ekstrand <michael@elehack.net> writes:
>>> I have some code that does this in my Gnus configuration.  It is only
>>> known to work for NNML, however, and I believe it depends on the
>>> ID-tracking support used to enable the fancy-split-with-parent
>>> feature.
>>> It does, however, successfully find messages across groups.
>>>
>>> The Gnus registry could probably be used to enable similar support
>>> for
>>> other backends.
>
> Would it be possible to use the registry to make it possible to find
> messages anywhere in gnus, just by message id?

Probably.  I think there's a chance that the message will have fallen
out of the registry if it's particularly old, and it may have problems
in IMAP environments if a message has been moved by another client, but
for general usage it should work fine, and in my estimation probably
won't have more problems than the folder#index scheme.

Note that I haven't actually used the Registry myself yet, merely read
about it and thought "that looks interesting, but I don't need it yet,
and it will probably not play well with my Unison synchronization."

- Michael

-- 
mouse, n: A device for pointing at the xterm in which you want to type.
Confused by the strange files?  I cryptographically sign my messages.
For more information see <http://www.elehack.net/resources/gpg>.

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 27, 2008, at 10:17 PM, Bill White wrote:

> On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 13:11, "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
>>> to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to  
>>> such a
>>> mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
>>> 'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's  
>>> just a
>>> question of the link format.
>>>
>>
>> It seems like this could get complicated as it depends on how/where
>> you store your sent messages.  Also, it looks like org-mode links  
>> rely
>> on the gnus group, and article id to link back to an article, so
>> somehow you would need a hook which runs after the sent article has
>> been saved into a group and given an ID.
>
> Ah ha!  Something was bugging me about org's links to gnus messages.


In the git version, message ids are now used for links to gnus articles.
Could some of you please verify this change?

Thanks to Ross and Michael for input, I looked at their code to  
implement this.

- Carsten

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Sebastian Rose]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> In the git version, message ids are now used for links to gnus articles.
> Could some of you please verify this change?

How to?
I did a `C-c l' in an outgoing message and a `C-c C-l' in an Org-file.
The link created was:

[[file:emacs/gnus/News/drafts/drafts/2::asdf][Test for outgoing mail link]]

Is this, what's expected? Or do I have to set something up first?

The link works.


Regards,

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover

Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Pete Phillips]

>>>>> "Sebastian" == Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:

    Sebastian> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
    >> In the git version, message ids are now used for links to gnus
    >> articles.  Could some of you please verify this change?

    Sebastian> How to?  I did a `C-c l' in an outgoing message and a
    Sebastian> `C-c C-l' in an Org-file.  The link created was:

    Sebastian> [[file:emacs/gnus/News/drafts/drafts/2::asdf][Test for
    Sebastian> outgoing mail link]]

    Sebastian> Is this, what's expected? Or do I have to set something
    Sebastian> up first?

As far as I am aware, message ID's are generated by the MTA, not the
MUA. Therefore I doubt that you can link to a message that hasn't been
through the MTA. Certainly in mh-e, when I'm editing a draft, there is
no Message-ID in the header, so I doubt if what Sebastien is trying to
do above will work (unless gnus generates the ID during composition of
the email ?)

Pete

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 29, 2008, at 12:27 PM, Pete Phillips wrote:

>>>>>> "Sebastian" == Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>
>    Sebastian> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>>> In the git version, message ids are now used for links to gnus
>>> articles.  Could some of you please verify this change?
>
>    Sebastian> How to?  I did a `C-c l' in an outgoing message and a
>    Sebastian> `C-c C-l' in an Org-file.  The link created was:
>
>    Sebastian> [[file:emacs/gnus/News/drafts/drafts/2::asdf][Test for
>    Sebastian> outgoing mail link]]
>
>    Sebastian> Is this, what's expected? Or do I have to set something
>    Sebastian> up first?
>
> As far as I am aware, message ID's are generated by the MTA, not the
> MUA. Therefore I doubt that you can link to a message that hasn't been
> through the MTA. Certainly in mh-e, when I'm editing a draft, there is
> no Message-ID in the header, so I doubt if what Sebastien is trying to
> do above will work (unless gnus generates the ID during composition of
> the email ?)

Sacha calls the link creating code in message-sent-hook, and I believe  
at this moment in time, the message-id is present.  So `C-c l' before  
sending will not help.  But a function in the hook cold get there.

Here is an idea for storing links to sent messages in the outline- 
tree:  Write a function that remembers the current location in the  
outline tree (by creating a marker), calls up a message buffer, and  
installs a special hook function that will create a link to the sent  
message and insert it back at the position in the outline tree where  
the email command was called.  This could be made to work even from an  
agenda view.

- Carsten

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Georg C. F. Greve]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 808 bytes --]

Hi all,

I just saw this thread and believe that 

  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/org-mairix.el

might contain parts of the answer, at least. I've been trying to come up
with a better solution, and kept meaning to come back to it, but haven't
managed thus far.

The fundamental problem of getting the message ID, which is sufficient
for linking to an article through mairix search has been solved, though.

Sorry for not being more helpful - hope it'll be useful anyways.

Regards,
Georg

-- 
Georg C. F. Greve                                 <greve@fsfeurope.org>
Free Software Foundation Europe	                 (http://fsfeurope.org)
President                                      +41 43 500 03 66 ext 400

Join the Fellowship and protect your freedom!     (http://www.fsfe.org)

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 306 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Christopher Suckling]

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 02:07:57PM +0100, Georg C. F. Greve wrote:

> 
> I just saw this thread and believe that 
> 
>   http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/org-mairix.el
> 
> might contain parts of the answer, at least. I've been trying to come up
> with a better solution, and kept meaning to come back to it, but haven't
> managed thus far.
> 
> The fundamental problem of getting the message ID, which is sufficient
> for linking to an article through mairix search has been solved, though.
> 

For the very few people who use OS X, mutt, Quicksilver and org-mode,
I've got a solution to this at

http://claviclaws.net/org/

I use Quicksilver to trigger an AppleScript which send a key command
to mutt, triggering the following macro:

macro index,pager "I" "<pipe-message>/usr/bin/formail -X Message-ID -X
Subject | cut -d\">\" -f1 | tr -d \"<\" |
~/.mutt/org-mairix-link.sh\n"

This uses formail to pass the Message-ID and Subject to a shell script
(available at above site) which in turn formats an org-mairix link and
sends it to the Emacs kill-ring.

Hope this might be of some use,

Christopher

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Ross Patterson]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> On Oct 29, 2008, at 12:27 PM, Pete Phillips wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "Sebastian" == Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>
>>    Sebastian> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>>>> In the git version, message ids are now used for links to gnus
>>>> articles.  Could some of you please verify this change?
>>
>>    Sebastian> How to?  I did a `C-c l' in an outgoing message and a
>>    Sebastian> `C-c C-l' in an Org-file.  The link created was:
>>
>>    Sebastian> [[file:emacs/gnus/News/drafts/drafts/2::asdf][Test for
>>    Sebastian> outgoing mail link]]
>>
>>    Sebastian> Is this, what's expected? Or do I have to set something
>>    Sebastian> up first?
>>
>> As far as I am aware, message ID's are generated by the MTA, not the
>> MUA. Therefore I doubt that you can link to a message that hasn't been
>> through the MTA. Certainly in mh-e, when I'm editing a draft, there is
>> no Message-ID in the header, so I doubt if what Sebastien is trying to
>> do above will work (unless gnus generates the ID during composition of
>> the email ?)
>
> Sacha calls the link creating code in message-sent-hook, and I believe
> at this moment in time, the message-id is present.  So `C-c l' before
> sending will not help.  But a function in the hook cold get there.
>
> Here is an idea for storing links to sent messages in the outline-
> tree:  Write a function that remembers the current location in the
> outline tree (by creating a marker), calls up a message buffer, and
> installs a special hook function that will create a link to the sent
> message and insert it back at the position in the outline tree where
> the email command was called.  This could be made to work even from an
> agenda view.

Maybe this would be best integrated with clocking time?  IOW, the link
will be added as a note to the headline the you are currently clocked
into.  Maybe it could even be integrated with an option to clock out and
back into the same task adding the link to the clock out note.

Just call me pie-in-the-sky-guy.  :)

Ross

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Mykola Nikishov]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> In the git version, message ids are now used for links to gnus articles.
> Could some of you please verify this change?

diff --git a/GettingThingsDone/MyLife.org b/GettingThingsDone/MyLife.org
index 6fb33be..806c779 100644
--- a/GettingThingsDone/MyLife.org
+++ b/GettingThingsDone/MyLife.org
@@ -106,8 +106,8 @@ analyze.
 * TODO [#A] review
   SCHEDULED: <2008-11-21 пт>
  [2008-09-22 Mon 17:50]
-[[gnus:nnmaildir%2Blocalhost:inbox#13179][Email from Lyudmyla]]
-[[gnus:nnmaildir%2Blocalhost:bogofilter-unsure#1139][Email from Volodymyr]]
+[[gnus:nnvirtual:inboxes#<74ED9393FA836744B9309ED04DC6725517FEB5@EX2-KBP1.synapse.com][Email from Lyudmyla
+[[gnus:nnmaildir%2Blocalhost:inbox#<05D3ECB61D5F76479E5C33D99AB628F8A01D5C@EX2-KBP1.synapse.com][Email from Vo
 * TODO try [[deb:solfege]]
   :PROPERTIES:
   :CATEGORY: debian

With org's revision 17c55f1b I can open linked messages with 'C-c C-o'
when in org file. But I need more time to investigate two use cases:

- message was moved into other group with 'B m'
- gnus is not running when C-c C-o pressed

> Thanks to Ross and Michael for input, I looked at their code to
> implement this.

+1

-- 
MAN-UANIC

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Bernt Hansen]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> In the git version, message ids are now used for links to gnus articles.
> Could some of you please verify this change?
>

This works great!  Thanks all

-Bernt

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Carsten Dominik]

Good to hear.

Another change in that release is that `org-link-frame-setup'
has a new option for gnus, `org-gnus-no-new-news', also taken
from Ross' code.  I have not tested it, but I believe it should
make jumping to a gnus message much faster as it will not try
to get new news.

- Carsten

On Oct 29, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Bernt Hansen wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>
>> In the git version, message ids are now used for links to gnus  
>> articles.
>> Could some of you please verify this change?
>>
>
> This works great!  Thanks all
>
> -Bernt

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Bernt Hansen]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> Another change in that release is that `org-link-frame-setup'
> has a new option for gnus, `org-gnus-no-new-news', also taken
> from Ross' code.  I have not tested it, but I believe it should
> make jumping to a gnus message much faster as it will not try
> to get new news.

I hadn't noticed gnus being slow before so I don't think it was fetching
news before jumping to the linked message ... but I could be wrong. :)

-Bernt

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Bernt Hansen]

Okay I spoke a bit too soon here.

The message-id links work as well as the old links but if I move a
message from one folder to another the old and new links both break.

My link looks like this:

[[gnus:INBOX#<87y707s8om.fsf@gollum.intra.norang.ca>][Email from Bernt Hansen: Test email]]

but if I move the mail from my INBOX to INBOX.Test in my IMAP folder I
need to change the INBOX# to INBOX.Test# for the link to work.

Normally this isn't a problem for me - I don't move my mail around
much.  It get delivered directly to the target folder it is supposed to
live in so I just link to the mail after it's in the final location -
but I happened to try this with a message that wasn't filed and I linked
to it before moving it.

Sorry for the false report earlier...

-Bernt

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> Good to hear.
>
> On Oct 29, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Bernt Hansen wrote:
>
>>
>> This works great!  Thanks all
>>
>> -Bernt
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Ross Patterson]

Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> writes:

> Okay I spoke a bit too soon here.
>
> The message-id links work as well as the old links but if I move a
> message from one folder to another the old and new links both break.
>
> My link looks like this:
>
> [[gnus:INBOX#<87y707s8om.fsf@gollum.intra.norang.ca>][Email from Bernt Hansen: Test email]]
>
> but if I move the mail from my INBOX to INBOX.Test in my IMAP folder I
> need to change the INBOX# to INBOX.Test# for the link to work.
>
> Normally this isn't a problem for me - I don't move my mail around
> much.  It get delivered directly to the target folder it is supposed to
> live in so I just link to the mail after it's in the final location -
> but I happened to try this with a message that wasn't filed and I linked
> to it before moving it.
>
> Sorry for the false report earlier...

I don't think the previous article number based links worked past a
message folder move either, correct?

Ross

> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>
>> Good to hear.
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Bernt Hansen wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This works great!  Thanks all
>>>
>>> -Bernt
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Bernt Hansen]

Ross Patterson <me@rpatterson.net> writes:

> Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> writes:
>
>> Sorry for the false report earlier...
>
> I don't think the previous article number based links worked past a
> message folder move either, correct?

No they did not.  But the new links are better - I can just change the
folder name to wherever I filed it and it works again - the old links
changed the message number too and you'd have to hunt for the mail.

-Bernt

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Ross Patterson]

Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> writes:

> Ross Patterson <me@rpatterson.net> writes:
>
>> Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> writes:
>>
>>> Sorry for the false report earlier...
>>
>> I don't think the previous article number based links worked past a
>> message folder move either, correct?
>
> No they did not.  But the new links are better - I can just change the
> folder name to wherever I filed it and it works again - the old links
> changed the message number too and you'd have to hunt for the mail.

Ah, I misunderstood your point!  Sorry.  :)

Ross

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Bill White]

On Mon Oct 27 2008 at 10:01, Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> wrote:

> Hi Bill,
>
>
> to add links to autgoing mails automatically, adding a link to such a
> mail once should be enough, to add the right funciton to your
> 'mail-send-hook' (?? don't no which hook really...) since it's just a
> question of the link format.
>
> If no one has done this until now, please share it here. I use gnus,
> but I still BCC myself to 'store' my outgoing mail :-) As for me, I'd
> prefer a way to keep my outgoing mails directly in gnus.

Thanks for your thoughts!  I hope to have some time to look into this
soon.  Sacha's method adds a function to gnus's message-sent-hook.  The
function basically grabs message-id and other info from the message
itself (using some built-in planner functions), runs a make-link
function on the info, searches the current day's planner file for the
right header, then uses 'insert' to put the link there.

Cheers -

bw
-- 
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wolfram.com/billw
"No ma'am, we're musicians."

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi,

I think there are interesting ideas coming up in this tasks, in  
particular the question if message IDs can be used to find articles in  
gnus, even if they have been moved around.  I am not sure if this  
questions has been fully answered, but I have not read the thread  
carefully enough yet, and certainly not tried Michaels code.

Right now I would like to take a little step back and understand  
better what the original poster is trying to do.

I can see that in an Emacs/Planner environment it makes sense to  
create links to sent emails on the days page.  The reason for this is  
that the planner day page is not only used for listing the planned  
tasks for the day, but also as a way of creating a daily journal.   
Sacha Chua's blog shows that she is using it just like that, and I  
think this is one of te unique and great features of planner.

However, the basic setup of Org is different.  There is no equivalent  
of a daily page.  The agenda views created by Org are dynamic and list  
tasks, and the tasks disappear when they are done.  Yes, you can look  
at the achievements of a day by checking closed tasks and log  
messages, but still this is no equivalent to the planner day pages  
which is a document that can be edited and preserved for the future.

Maybe you can create something similar with Org, but I think it is not  
straight forward.

On the other hand, every decent email program does have a SENT folder,  
and an easy way to list the emails sent on a specific date.

To me it seems that instead of creating a sequential list of links to  
emails for each day, it would be more interesting to create a way to  
collect links relating to a project or a task in the outline node of  
the project, or maybe in an attachment file of the project (if the  
list of emails is long).

Just my 5 cents.

- Carsten




On Oct 26, 2008, at 6:31 PM, Bill White wrote:

> Hi all -
>
> I'm looking into porting my planner/muse/gnus infrastructure to org.
> One indispensible bit of code in my current system writes a gnus  
> message
> link in the current day's planner file every time I send a message  
> from
> gnus.  It uses Sacha Chua's sacha/planner-gnus-track-sent method here:
>
> http://sachachua.com/notebook/wiki/2006.08.10.php#anchor-3
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.wiki.general/6017
>
> Has someone already written something like this for org?  Perhaps a
> remember-like mechanism that writes a link to, say, Email.org?   
> Perhaps
> messages could be filed under date headlines:
>
> * Sunday, October 26, 2008
> ** message 1 recipient:subject
> [link] (or contents?)
> ** message 2 recipient:subject
> [link] (or contents?)
>
> or somesuch.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts about this -
>
> bw
> -- 
> Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wolfram.com/billw
> "No ma'am, we're musicians."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Ross Patterson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 728 bytes --]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> I think there are interesting ideas coming up in this tasks, in
> particular the question if message IDs can be used to find articles in
> gnus, even if they have been moved around.  I am not sure if this
> questions has been fully answered, but I have not read the thread
> carefully enough yet, and certainly not tried Michaels code.

Just to comment on this little bit, I have local modifications that make
org links use the Messags-Id instead of the article number since article
numbers changes often in my setup.  I've been meaning to blog about it
but since I haven't gotten to it, here's the file containing the
necessary code just in case its useful to anyone.

Ross


[-- Attachment #2: rpatterson-org.el --]
[-- Type: application/emacs-lisp, Size: 2589 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi Ross,

this looks interesting.  Is this compatible with old links that might  
still use article numbers?  If not, could it be made to be compatible?

- Carsten

On Oct 28, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Ross Patterson wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>
>> I think there are interesting ideas coming up in this tasks, in
>> particular the question if message IDs can be used to find articles  
>> in
>> gnus, even if they have been moved around.  I am not sure if this
>> questions has been fully answered, but I have not read the thread
>> carefully enough yet, and certainly not tried Michaels code.
>
> Just to comment on this little bit, I have local modifications that  
> make
> org links use the Messags-Id instead of the article number since  
> article
> numbers changes often in my setup.  I've been meaning to blog about it
> but since I haven't gotten to it, here's the file containing the
> necessary code just in case its useful to anyone.
>
> Ross
>
> <rpatterson-org.el>_______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Ross Patterson]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> Hi Ross,
>
> this looks interesting.  Is this compatible with old links that might
> still use article numbers?  If not, could it be made to be compatible?

Yeah, it is compatible with existing links since the underlying gnus
function that looks up articles accepts either kind of argument.

When I implemented my changes I had the good intention to make whether
to use article number or Message-Id a configuration option.  But then
again, I spend a lot of time on the road to heck.  :)

Ross

> On Oct 28, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Ross Patterson wrote:
>
>> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>>
>>> I think there are interesting ideas coming up in this tasks, in
>>> particular the question if message IDs can be used to find articles
>>> in
>>> gnus, even if they have been moved around.  I am not sure if this
>>> questions has been fully answered, but I have not read the thread
>>> carefully enough yet, and certainly not tried Michaels code.
>>
>> Just to comment on this little bit, I have local modifications that
>> make
>> org links use the Messags-Id instead of the article number since
>> article
>> numbers changes often in my setup.  I've been meaning to blog about it
>> but since I haven't gotten to it, here's the file containing the
>> necessary code just in case its useful to anyone.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> <rpatterson-org.el>_______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: keeping track of sent emails in org?

[Bill White]

On Tue Oct 28 2008 at 12:58, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think there are interesting ideas coming up in this tasks, in
> particular the question if message IDs can be used to find articles in
> gnus, even if they have been moved around.  I am not sure if this
> questions has been fully answered, but I have not read the thread
> carefully enough yet, and certainly not tried Michaels code.
>
> Right now I would like to take a little step back and understand
> better what the original poster is trying to do.

I'm the OP; I think you captured it well in the rest of your message.
Using planner/muse, I've come to think of the day page as the
fundamental unit of information (though I suppose it can be used in
other ways).  What I do today is recorded on today's page - outgoing
emails, notes, remember records; also, any planner items/projects/etc
marked as 'done' are left behind on today's page.  When a new day page
is generated, all ongoing projects from the previous day migrate like a
herd of elephants across the savannah to the new day page.

My main use of that day-based information is in writing weekly and
monthly reports - a collection of stuff I've done that I and others may
find helpful now and in the distant future when all details have been
forgotten.

It seems to me so far that org doesn't have the same notion of a day
page; perhaps the fundamental unit of information is the note?  There
seems to be a certain 'timeless' quality to org pages, aside from
deadlines and schedules.  That timelessness is disconcerting when coming
from planner.

[...snip...]

> To me it seems that instead of creating a sequential list of links to
> emails for each day, it would be more interesting to create a way to
> collect links relating to a project or a task in the outline node of
> the project, or maybe in an attachment file of the project (if the
> list of emails is long).

Indeed.  There's surely no pressing need to implement a feature that
isn't useful in org's philosophy of the universe.  Perhaps if I can
switch over to org and begin to think in its ways, I'll find a useful
fundamental unit of information other than the day page and its
date-based contents.

Cheers -

bw
-- 
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wolfram.com/billw
"No ma'am, we're musicians."