From: Steve Downey <sdowney@gmail.com>
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Cc: Bastien <bzg@gnu.org>, Org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>,
Jon Snader <jcs@irreal.org>
Subject: Re: [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. "<s[TAB]")
Date: Tue, 01 May 2018 02:27:28 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJEGDKpZnS+WDBbT9d23yDp3VEStw0cP6sKUp-x7GdRdTAKAnQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAC=50j_AH2kcmHLA1rr7T8JMZvJiuxYqp3L+oNP2hWAeeXxNDg@mail.gmail.com>
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>> For many existing users, restoring the old behaviour is just adding a
require to their setup, so it isn't a lot to ask.
Asking users to accept any breakage in the tool they use to get work done
is a lot. Changes in UI in emacs are opt-in.
Even if the change is the right thing to do.
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:01 PM Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1 May 2018 at 08:39, Jon Snader <jcs@irreal.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> [Snip]
>>>
>>> Personally, I feel the new version should be the default and we should
>>> provide an easy way to re-enable the old version for those who wish to
>>> continue with what they are use to.
>>>
>>
>> We already have this. The problem, as you say, is
>>
>> how we communicate this to existing users.
>>>
>>
>> But here's what I don't understand: what, exactly, is so bad about
>> leaving the old behavior enabled by default. The new behavior is still
>> available and naive users don't get surprised. What's not to like?
>>
>
> The problem is that if the old behaviour remains as the default, then that
> is what new users will be introduced to and the improved new functionality
> won't be seen. If the new behaviour is the default, there will be a small
> period of adjustment for existing users, but new users will be benefiting
> from the changes immediately. For many existing users, restoring the old
> behaviour is just adding a require to their setup, so it isn't a lot to
> ask. (I believe there will be some power users with lots of custom blocks
> who may be more impacted, but as I understand it, whether the new or old
> functionality is enabled by default doesn't really change the situation for
> them anyway as they will have to take additional steps to migrate their
> custom block settings). The real issue isn't about changing the default as
> much as doing whatever is possible to inform existing users of the change
> and how to restore previous behaviour if desired.
>
> In the past, after an org upgrade, I have seen messages in the *Messages*
> buffer regarding inconsistent, incompatible changes and what action needs
> to be taken (I think this occurred when changes were made to TODO
> templates). Maybe something along these lines could also be done - maybe
> have a message displayed when someone tries to do a '<s' expansion and does
> not have org-tempo loaded? Maybe this could be developed as something which
> could be used in the future when we make other changes.
>
> Along these same lines, maybe we need to consider adopting something
> similar to the Emacs obsolete/deprecated approach. In this next release,
> add a message to org-tempo advising that this functionality will change in
> the next release where org-tempo will not be loaded by default. This could
> include a pointer to a web page explaining the change and associated
> benefits and how to make the switch now if desired. While this might delay
> the transition, it might address concerns regarding impact to existing
> users and new users will be aware of the alternative etc. It would be
> important to have a way to silence this message of course.
>
>
>
> --
> regards,
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Cross
>
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-05-01 2:27 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 87+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-04-29 15:06 [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. "<s[TAB]") Jon Snader
2018-04-30 20:37 ` Richard Lawrence
2018-04-30 20:46 ` Peter Dewey Ore
2018-04-30 21:33 ` Michael Gauland
2018-04-30 21:46 ` Jon Snader
2018-04-30 22:25 ` Tim Cross
2018-04-30 22:35 ` Cook, Malcolm
2018-04-30 22:39 ` Jon Snader
2018-04-30 22:49 ` Kaushal Modi
2018-05-01 1:29 ` Alan Tyree
2018-05-01 14:07 ` Christophe Schockaert
2018-05-01 2:00 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-01 2:27 ` Steve Downey [this message]
2018-05-01 12:35 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-05-01 16:28 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-05 18:07 ` Rasmus
2018-05-06 20:34 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-06 22:11 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-07 22:30 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 0:25 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-08 7:36 ` Bastien
2018-05-13 20:52 ` Rasmus
2018-05-01 16:54 ` Cook, Malcolm
2018-05-05 18:01 ` Rasmus
2018-05-06 5:00 ` Carsten Dominik
2018-05-07 22:33 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 7:37 ` Bastien
2018-05-21 14:35 ` Rasmus
2018-05-05 23:26 ` Adrian Bradd
2018-05-05 23:37 ` Josiah Schwab
2018-05-08 7:31 ` Bastien
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-04-29 10:24 Bastien
2018-04-29 10:50 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-04-29 11:05 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 12:01 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-04-29 13:22 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 17:40 ` Thomas S. Dye
2018-04-29 20:56 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 22:05 ` Tim Cross
2018-04-29 22:31 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 22:27 ` Tim Cross
2018-04-29 23:03 ` Bastien
2018-04-30 10:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-04-30 14:03 ` Kevin Foley
2018-04-30 14:17 ` Kevin Foley
2018-05-05 17:20 ` Rasmus
2018-05-02 12:43 ` Bernt Hansen
2018-05-08 6:23 ` Bastien
2018-05-05 17:17 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 6:27 ` Bastien
2018-05-01 15:49 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-01 19:31 ` Eric S Fraga
2018-05-02 9:10 ` Rasmus Pank Roulund
2018-05-02 17:12 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-05 17:29 ` Rasmus
2018-05-06 20:02 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-07 22:53 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 0:57 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-08 6:56 ` Bastien
2018-05-21 14:24 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 6:52 ` Bastien
2018-05-21 14:19 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 6:34 ` Bastien
2018-04-30 8:47 ` Eric S Fraga
2018-05-08 8:37 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 13:24 ` Christian Moe
2018-04-29 13:55 ` Charles Millar
2018-04-29 19:08 ` Diego Zamboni
2018-04-29 20:30 ` Rasmus
2018-04-29 20:44 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 23:32 ` Bernt Hansen
2018-05-02 20:24 ` Bernt Hansen
2018-05-03 9:44 ` Carsten Dominik
2018-05-03 13:30 ` William Denton
2018-05-04 7:34 ` Neil Jerram
2018-05-04 7:45 ` Bastien
2018-05-05 1:37 ` Samuel Wales
2018-05-05 2:16 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-05 2:28 ` Samuel Wales
2018-05-05 2:37 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-05 12:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-05-05 17:33 ` Rasmus
2018-05-01 11:57 ` Nick Helm
2018-04-29 20:25 ` Rasmus
2018-04-29 21:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-05-02 9:03 ` Rasmus
2018-04-30 16:36 ` Steve Downey
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