From: Bastien <bzg@gnu.org>
To: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
Cc: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>,
Org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>, Jon Snader <jcs@irreal.org>,
Steve Downey <sdowney@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. "<s[TAB]")
Date: Tue, 08 May 2018 09:31:13 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87h8nifvsu.fsf@bzg.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 871sevime2.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr
Hi Nicolas,
Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:
> The first important thing to understand is that, even if we enable
> `org-tempo' by default, next Org release /will break/ for some of us.
>
> - It will break because `org-tempo' is only 99% backward-compatible. So
> anyone having customizing templates is bound to change them.
I propose to make it 100% backward-compatible.
> - It will break because there are 9 other incompatible changes between
> 9.1 and 9.2.
It is not because many things will break that we should not fix that
one thing - quite on the contrary: it's because we think "that thing
can break, it's okay" that many things will break.
> Org is too big. Its (lack of) design is wrong.
>
> This is not from me, but from some the Emacs developers, in particular
> Richard Stallman. You may want to read the thread "Differences between
> Org-Mode and Hyperbole" in emacs-devel mailing list archives for the
> exact quote.
Quoting RMS exact words:
Org mode is an example of how Emacs development went astray.
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-06/msg00272.html
FWIW I agree with John's answer:
However, the super-tight coupling of Org-mode's features allows them
to cooperate in ways that are usually "to the point", and sometimes
elegant.
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-06/msg00273.html
> The question is about designing Org so it fits well -- better, at
> least -- in the Emacs ecosystem. This means no unreasonable feature
> overlap and enough modularity to be re-usable from other parts in
> Emacs.
Sometimes we will need to externalize an Org feature to not reinvent
the wheel unnecessarily and to provide it as a separate package, and
orgalist.el is a good example of that.
Sometimes we will add functionalities in Org's core by reusing core
Emacs features.
Using tempo.el to let Org easily insert templates is a natural thing
to do, especially because Org *has* structures like #+begin...#+end
that exactly match the need for template insertion.
Vim users like to make fun of Emacs because it does too much. But
Emacs users don't understand why this would be laughable... because
Emacs *rocks*.
I'd like Org to keep the same level of awesomeness.
--
Bastien
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-05-08 7:31 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 87+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-04-29 15:06 [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. "<s[TAB]") Jon Snader
2018-04-30 20:37 ` Richard Lawrence
2018-04-30 20:46 ` Peter Dewey Ore
2018-04-30 21:33 ` Michael Gauland
2018-04-30 21:46 ` Jon Snader
2018-04-30 22:25 ` Tim Cross
2018-04-30 22:35 ` Cook, Malcolm
2018-04-30 22:39 ` Jon Snader
2018-04-30 22:49 ` Kaushal Modi
2018-05-01 1:29 ` Alan Tyree
2018-05-01 14:07 ` Christophe Schockaert
2018-05-01 2:00 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-01 2:27 ` Steve Downey
2018-05-01 12:35 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-05-01 16:28 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-05 18:07 ` Rasmus
2018-05-06 20:34 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-06 22:11 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-07 22:30 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 0:25 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-08 7:36 ` Bastien
2018-05-13 20:52 ` Rasmus
2018-05-01 16:54 ` Cook, Malcolm
2018-05-05 18:01 ` Rasmus
2018-05-06 5:00 ` Carsten Dominik
2018-05-07 22:33 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 7:37 ` Bastien
2018-05-21 14:35 ` Rasmus
2018-05-05 23:26 ` Adrian Bradd
2018-05-05 23:37 ` Josiah Schwab
2018-05-08 7:31 ` Bastien [this message]
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-04-29 10:24 Bastien
2018-04-29 10:50 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-04-29 11:05 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 12:01 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-04-29 13:22 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 17:40 ` Thomas S. Dye
2018-04-29 20:56 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 22:05 ` Tim Cross
2018-04-29 22:31 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 22:27 ` Tim Cross
2018-04-29 23:03 ` Bastien
2018-04-30 10:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-04-30 14:03 ` Kevin Foley
2018-04-30 14:17 ` Kevin Foley
2018-05-05 17:20 ` Rasmus
2018-05-02 12:43 ` Bernt Hansen
2018-05-08 6:23 ` Bastien
2018-05-05 17:17 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 6:27 ` Bastien
2018-05-01 15:49 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-01 19:31 ` Eric S Fraga
2018-05-02 9:10 ` Rasmus Pank Roulund
2018-05-02 17:12 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-05 17:29 ` Rasmus
2018-05-06 20:02 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-07 22:53 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 0:57 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-08 6:56 ` Bastien
2018-05-21 14:24 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 6:52 ` Bastien
2018-05-21 14:19 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 6:34 ` Bastien
2018-04-30 8:47 ` Eric S Fraga
2018-05-08 8:37 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 13:24 ` Christian Moe
2018-04-29 13:55 ` Charles Millar
2018-04-29 19:08 ` Diego Zamboni
2018-04-29 20:30 ` Rasmus
2018-04-29 20:44 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 23:32 ` Bernt Hansen
2018-05-02 20:24 ` Bernt Hansen
2018-05-03 9:44 ` Carsten Dominik
2018-05-03 13:30 ` William Denton
2018-05-04 7:34 ` Neil Jerram
2018-05-04 7:45 ` Bastien
2018-05-05 1:37 ` Samuel Wales
2018-05-05 2:16 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-05 2:28 ` Samuel Wales
2018-05-05 2:37 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-05 12:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-05-05 17:33 ` Rasmus
2018-05-01 11:57 ` Nick Helm
2018-04-29 20:25 ` Rasmus
2018-04-29 21:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-05-02 9:03 ` Rasmus
2018-04-30 16:36 ` Steve Downey
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