From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
To: Bastien <bzg@gnu.org>
Cc: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. "<s[TAB]")
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 12:29:25 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87muxlm1h6.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87sh7d1upr.fsf@gnu.org> (Bastien's message of "Mon, 30 Apr 2018 01:03:28 +0200")
Hello,
Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
> Here is what the experience can look like:
>
> - Upgrading Emacs or Org (hurray!!)
> - Trying to hit <s as usual one month after the upgrade
> - Thinking your stupid
[...]
I have an issue with this argument: it can be opposed to virtually any
backward-incompatible change we make. There are actually 10 such changes
in Org 9.2. Would it makes sense to remove them because some users,
unfortunately, will encounter a workflow break upon updating Org?
I totally agree this is an issue, yet, we have to move forward. We can
make UX consistent across releases, but we cannot guarantee 100%
compatibility at each step. As a data point, I don't know any software
that preserves the exact same UX after each release -- Firefox, Gnome,
I'm looking at you! There are unavoidable gotchas. This just means Org
is still vivid.
> In fact, I'm inclined to ask the real question: if org-tempo is on by
> default, who will have good reasons to turn it off and why?
This is one problem: only a few will have a reason (good or bad, who
cares?) to turn it off, e.g., because expansion gets in the way with
other templating systems. Possibly even fewer will actually turn it off.
As a consequence, the vast majority of users will keep using "<s" -- and
put maintenance burden on us -- instead of trying, and improving
something else. Inertia...
I already stated the following, sorry for re-iterating. Marking a region
and wrapping it in some environment is a basic operation Org is expected
to provide. We already did with `org-emphasize'. Implementing
programmable templates, even though we are re-using what Emacs ships
with, is another story.
Org Tempo is a nice tool. I'm not questioning this. It is also almost
100% compatible with previous feature. Yet, it competes with external
Emacs libraries, as capable as itself. Since it is not a feature
mandatory in Org, why forcing it onto the users? I'm inclined to think
we shouldn't.
Regards,
--
Nicolas Goaziou 0x80A93738
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-04-30 10:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 91+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-04-29 10:24 [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. "<s[TAB]") Bastien
2018-04-29 10:50 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-04-29 11:05 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 12:01 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-04-29 13:22 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 17:40 ` Thomas S. Dye
2018-04-29 20:56 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 22:05 ` Tim Cross
2018-04-29 22:31 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 22:27 ` Tim Cross
2018-04-29 23:03 ` Bastien
2018-04-30 10:29 ` Nicolas Goaziou [this message]
2018-04-30 14:03 ` Kevin Foley
2018-04-30 14:17 ` Kevin Foley
2018-05-05 17:20 ` Rasmus
2018-05-02 12:43 ` Bernt Hansen
2018-05-08 6:23 ` Bastien
2018-05-05 17:17 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 6:27 ` Bastien
2018-05-01 15:49 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-01 19:31 ` Eric S Fraga
2018-05-02 9:10 ` Rasmus Pank Roulund
2018-05-02 17:12 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-05 17:29 ` Rasmus
2018-05-06 20:02 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-07 22:53 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 0:57 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-08 6:56 ` Bastien
2018-05-21 14:24 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 6:52 ` Bastien
2018-05-21 14:19 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 6:49 ` Smooth transition for modules (was: [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. "<s[TAB]")) Bastien
2018-05-08 9:26 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-08 9:46 ` Smooth transition for modules Bastien
2018-05-08 13:28 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-08 6:34 ` [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. "<s[TAB]") Bastien
2018-04-30 8:47 ` Eric S Fraga
2018-05-08 8:37 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 13:24 ` Christian Moe
2018-04-29 13:55 ` Charles Millar
2018-04-29 19:08 ` Diego Zamboni
2018-04-29 20:30 ` Rasmus
2018-04-29 20:44 ` Bastien
2018-04-29 23:32 ` Bernt Hansen
2018-05-02 20:24 ` Bernt Hansen
2018-05-03 9:44 ` Carsten Dominik
2018-05-03 13:30 ` William Denton
2018-05-04 7:34 ` Neil Jerram
2018-05-04 7:45 ` Bastien
2018-05-05 1:37 ` Samuel Wales
2018-05-05 2:16 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-05 2:28 ` Samuel Wales
2018-05-05 2:37 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-05 12:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-05-05 17:33 ` Rasmus
2018-05-01 11:57 ` Nick Helm
2018-04-29 20:25 ` Rasmus
2018-04-29 21:53 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-05-02 9:03 ` Rasmus
2018-04-30 16:36 ` Steve Downey
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-04-29 15:06 Jon Snader
2018-04-30 20:37 ` Richard Lawrence
2018-04-30 20:46 ` Peter Dewey Ore
2018-04-30 21:33 ` Michael Gauland
2018-04-30 21:46 ` Jon Snader
2018-04-30 22:25 ` Tim Cross
2018-04-30 22:35 ` Cook, Malcolm
2018-04-30 22:39 ` Jon Snader
2018-04-30 22:49 ` Kaushal Modi
2018-05-01 1:29 ` Alan Tyree
2018-05-01 14:07 ` Christophe Schockaert
2018-05-01 2:00 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-01 2:27 ` Steve Downey
2018-05-01 12:35 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-05-01 16:28 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-05 18:07 ` Rasmus
2018-05-06 20:34 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-06 22:11 ` Tim Cross
2018-05-07 22:30 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 0:25 ` Aaron Ecay
2018-05-08 7:36 ` Bastien
2018-05-13 20:52 ` Rasmus
2018-05-01 16:54 ` Cook, Malcolm
2018-05-05 18:01 ` Rasmus
2018-05-06 5:00 ` Carsten Dominik
2018-05-07 22:33 ` Rasmus
2018-05-08 7:37 ` Bastien
2018-05-21 14:35 ` Rasmus
2018-05-05 23:26 ` Adrian Bradd
2018-05-05 23:37 ` Josiah Schwab
2018-05-08 7:31 ` Bastien
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