Re: [PROPOSAL] Quick and easy installation instructions

From: Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk>
To: Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Quick and easy installation instructions
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:52:26 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87zkv4wo9h.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <i7nkt2$otu$1@dough.gmane.org> (Richard Riley's message of "Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:21:18 +0200")

Hi Richard,

Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:

> Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> I think that the documentation concerning installation should be made
>> more user-friendly. My impression is that the Org manual makes all this
>> sound much harder than it needs to be, and I suspect that this is an
>> entry-barrier for new Org users. For example, the first thing users
>> encounter in the manual section is an instruction to edit a Makefile.
>>
>> I suggest we provide a "quick and easy installation" section to the
>> manual, that shows people how to start using the latest version of
>> Org-mode without messing about with compilation and installation (I
>> rarely compile and have never "installed" Org-mode). It would also be
>> helpful to include notes on how to find your ".emacs" file.
>>
>> This would involve the following changes to section 1.2 Installation:
>>
>> 1. The first thing it should say would be along the lines of
>>    "A reasonably recent version of Org is included in Emacs. Are you
>>    sure you need the latest version of Org?  If not, skip to the
>>    Activation section and start using Org!"
>
> I would not go that way. org moves very very quickly.
>
> I would have it in bold letters "we thoroughly recommend taking the
> latest org release from git and here is how to do it (git pull with a
> label)". Then if and when issues arise they can git pull as and when the
> fixes arrive.

I do understand why you say this, but these are supposed to be easy
instructions; they should not involve usage of any version control
software. 

> I say this because some distros (debian being the prime example) can be
> very tardy with including latest versions.

Yes, I agree. The org-latest.{zip,tgz} are what should be recommended
(with the info caveat)

> And someone who uses emacs would not be overly put out by git installing

I think that statement requires some modification. For starters, I don't
think either of us use Windows, but I gather that git is not exactly
easy to use on Windows.

> or unzipping I think.
>
>>
>> 2. Then we should lay out an easy route and a full route:
>>    1. Quick and easy
>>       Download, set your load-path and (require 'org-install)
>>       Optionally compile (within emacs[1]?)
>>       Suggested text below.
>>    2. Full install
>>       Based on existing instructions
>
> I would leave out the compile all together : advanced users who might
> need it will know how to do it. old elc files are a frequent issue with
> beginners that rears its ugly head time and time again.

Sounds good to me. I have an intel atom processor and I don't find
myself wanting to compile for extra speed.

>> What do people think? Is it just the info files which are the issue?
>> What does a single-user machine gain from installation other than info
>> files?
>
> Info files are the issue. The addition to the infopath of the new info
> files is frequently an issue too. I say that because emacs info is my
> nemesis : I have never *properly* understood the way dir files work and
> frequently spend ages scratching my head as to where info files should
> really go ;)

Hmm, well I'm glad it's not just me :) But I think it would be OK if we
made it clear that, if they are following the easy route, they should
use the html/pdf documentation on the website.

Dan

>
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Footnotes:
>>
>> [1] How about including in Org-mode a function `org-compile' based on
>> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.php#compiling-org-without-make
>> and `org-reload'
>>
>> Example quick and Easy installation text:
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> 1. Download the latest version
>>    .zip and .tar.gz version are kept at
>>    http://orgmode.org/org-latest.zip
>>    http://orgmode.org/org-latest.tar.gz
>>
>> 2. Extract the archived files
>>    This will create a folder called "org-mode". Let's say that the
>>    location of this folder is "~/path/to/org-mode" (for Windows see
>>    footnote [1])
>>
>> 3. Add the following lines to your .emacs file (note that we're pointing
>>    to the "lisp" folder *within* the main "org-mode" folder):
>>
>>    (setq load-path (cons "~/path/to/org-mode/lisp" load-path)
>>    (require 'org-install)
>>
>> That's it. However, this will not install the latest info files, so
>> these will be out of date (corresponding to whatever version of Org
>> shipped with your emacs). See XXXX for instructions on installing the
>> info files.
>>
>> Now, Emacs should load whatever version of Org-mode you put at
>> "~/path/to/org-mode". So to update Org in the future, simply delete that
>> folder and replace it with a new one (steps 1 and 2 above).
>>
>> Footnotes:
>>
>> [1] On Windows, this path might look something like
>> "C:\\path\to\org-mode"
>>
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