emacs-orgmode@gnu.org archives
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Adam <ahcnz@ihug.co.nz>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Re: [PROPOSAL] Quick and easy installation instructions
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 08:51:04 +1200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <201009270851.05744.ahcnz@ihug.co.nz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87zkv4wo9h.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk>

On Monday 27 September 2010 02:52 am, Dan Davison wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
> Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
> > Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> >> I think that the documentation concerning installation should be made
> >> more user-friendly. My impression is that the Org manual makes all this
> >> sound much harder than it needs to be, and I suspect that this is an
> >> entry-barrier for new Org users. For example, the first thing users
> >> encounter in the manual section is an instruction to edit a Makefile.
> >>
> >> I suggest we provide a "quick and easy installation" section to the
> >> manual, that shows people how to start using the latest version of
> >> Org-mode without messing about with compilation and installation (I
> >> rarely compile and have never "installed" Org-mode). It would also be
> >> helpful to include notes on how to find your ".emacs" file.
> >>
> >> This would involve the following changes to section 1.2 Installation:
> >>
> >> 1. The first thing it should say would be along the lines of
> >>    "A reasonably recent version of Org is included in Emacs. Are you
> >>    sure you need the latest version of Org?  If not, skip to the
> >>    Activation section and start using Org!"
> >
> > I would not go that way. org moves very very quickly.
> >
> > I would have it in bold letters "we thoroughly recommend taking the
> > latest org release from git and here is how to do it (git pull with a
> > label)". Then if and when issues arise they can git pull as and when the
> > fixes arrive.
>
> I do understand why you say this, but these are supposed to be easy
> instructions; they should not involve usage of any version control
> software.
>
> > I say this because some distros (debian being the prime example) can be
> > very tardy with including latest versions.
>
> Yes, I agree. The org-latest.{zip,tgz} are what should be recommended
> (with the info caveat)
>
> > And someone who uses emacs would not be overly put out by git installing
>
> I think that statement requires some modification. For starters, I don't
> think either of us use Windows, but I gather that git is not exactly
> easy to use on Windows.

I agree.   On my Windows machine, (and Emacs with org-mode work 
well there),  it was a case of getting the zipped org-mode package, 
unzipping into a suitable directory  (C:\emacs\orgx  or  C:
\home\emacs\lisp\orgx  etc), and then  add-to-list;  load-path  
and require 'org-install,  and maybe a require 'org (not sure). 

After that, then adding org agenda files paths, diary etc. 

This uses no Git.   And I didn't realize how simple upgrading to a newer  
orgmode could be.  Compiling isn't important at this stage. 


> > or unzipping I think.
> >
> >> 2. Then we should lay out an easy route and a full route:
> >>    1. Quick and easy
> >>       Download, set your load-path and (require 'org-install)
> >>       Optionally compile (within emacs[1]?)
> >>       Suggested text below.
> >>    2. Full install
> >>       Based on existing instructions
> >
> > I would leave out the compile all together : advanced users who might
> > need it will know how to do it. old elc files are a frequent issue with
> > beginners that rears its ugly head time and time again.
>
> Sounds good to me. I have an intel atom processor and I don't find
> myself wanting to compile for extra speed.
>
> >> What do people think? Is it just the info files which are the issue?
> >> What does a single-user machine gain from installation other than info
> >> files?
> >
> > Info files are the issue. The addition to the infopath of the new info
> > files is frequently an issue too. I say that because emacs info is my
> > nemesis : I have never *properly* understood the way dir files work and
> > frequently spend ages scratching my head as to where info files should
> > really go ;)
>
> Hmm, well I'm glad it's not just me :) But I think it would be OK if we
> made it clear that, if they are following the easy route, they should
> use the html/pdf documentation on the website.
>
> Dan
>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >> Footnotes:
> >>
> >> [1] How about including in Org-mode a function `org-compile' based on
> >> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.php#compiling-org-without-make
> >> and `org-reload'
> >>
> >> Example quick and Easy installation text:
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>
> >> 1. Download the latest version
> >>    .zip and .tar.gz version are kept at
> >>    http://orgmode.org/org-latest.zip
> >>    http://orgmode.org/org-latest.tar.gz
> >>
> >> 2. Extract the archived files
> >>    This will create a folder called "org-mode". Let's say that the
> >>    location of this folder is "~/path/to/org-mode" (for Windows see
> >>    footnote [1])
> >>
> >> 3. Add the following lines to your .emacs file (note that we're pointing
> >>    to the "lisp" folder *within* the main "org-mode" folder):
> >>
> >>    (setq load-path (cons "~/path/to/org-mode/lisp" load-path)
> >>    (require 'org-install)
> >>
> >> That's it. However, this will not install the latest info files, so
> >> these will be out of date (corresponding to whatever version of Org
> >> shipped with your emacs). See XXXX for instructions on installing the
> >> info files.
> >>
> >> Now, Emacs should load whatever version of Org-mode you put at
> >> "~/path/to/org-mode". So to update Org in the future, simply delete that
> >> folder and replace it with a new one (steps 1 and 2 above).
> >>
> >> Footnotes:
> >>
> >> [1] On Windows, this path might look something like
> >> "C:\\path\to\org-mode"
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> >> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-09-26 19:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 29+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-09-26 13:33 [PROPOSAL] Quick and easy installation instructions Dan Davison
2010-09-26 13:44 ` Thomas S. Dye
2010-09-26 13:52 ` A. Ryan Reynolds
2010-09-26 14:21 ` Richard Riley
2010-09-26 14:52   ` Dan Davison
2010-09-26 15:01     ` Carsten Dominik
2010-09-26 15:02     ` Richard Riley
2010-09-26 21:00       ` Rémi Vanicat
2010-09-27  6:23         ` Richard Riley
2010-09-26 20:51     ` Adam [this message]
2010-09-26 14:51 ` John Hendy
2010-09-26 17:37 ` Achim Gratz
2010-09-26 18:22   ` Dan Davison
2010-09-26 19:27     ` Achim Gratz
2010-09-26 20:57       ` ELPA [WAS] " Dan Davison
2010-09-28 10:52         ` Scot Becker
2010-09-28 14:55           ` Jambunathan K
2010-09-28 17:48           ` ELPA Eric Schulte
2010-09-28 18:35             ` ELPA Sebastian Rose
2010-09-28 18:59             ` ELPA Achim Gratz
2010-09-28 19:09               ` ELPA Richard Riley
2010-09-28 20:43             ` ELPA Scot Becker
2010-09-27  6:26 ` [PROPOSAL] Quick and easy installation instructions Carsten Dominik
2010-09-27  9:00   ` Dan Davison
2010-09-27  9:55     ` Carsten Dominik
2010-09-27 10:50       ` Giovanni Ridolfi
2010-09-27 12:55       ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-27 13:53         ` Dan Davison
2010-09-27 14:06           ` Sebastian Rose

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.orgmode.org/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=201009270851.05744.ahcnz@ihug.co.nz \
    --to=ahcnz@ihug.co.nz \
    --cc=emacs-orgmode@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).