From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Adam Subject: Re: Re: [PROPOSAL] Quick and easy installation instructions Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 08:51:04 +1200 Message-ID: <201009270851.05744.ahcnz@ihug.co.nz> References: <87tylcy6gw.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <87zkv4wo9h.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=39360 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OzxGM-00081l-GD for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:51:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OzxGK-00017g-Tk for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:51:54 -0400 Received: from mailfilter68.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.136.68]:25566) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OzxGK-000174-CJ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:51:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87zkv4wo9h.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> Content-Disposition: inline List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On Monday 27 September 2010 02:52 am, Dan Davison wrote: > Hi Richard, > > Richard Riley writes: > > Dan Davison writes: > >> I think that the documentation concerning installation should be made > >> more user-friendly. My impression is that the Org manual makes all this > >> sound much harder than it needs to be, and I suspect that this is an > >> entry-barrier for new Org users. For example, the first thing users > >> encounter in the manual section is an instruction to edit a Makefile. > >> > >> I suggest we provide a "quick and easy installation" section to the > >> manual, that shows people how to start using the latest version of > >> Org-mode without messing about with compilation and installation (I > >> rarely compile and have never "installed" Org-mode). It would also be > >> helpful to include notes on how to find your ".emacs" file. > >> > >> This would involve the following changes to section 1.2 Installation: > >> > >> 1. The first thing it should say would be along the lines of > >> "A reasonably recent version of Org is included in Emacs. Are you > >> sure you need the latest version of Org? If not, skip to the > >> Activation section and start using Org!" > > > > I would not go that way. org moves very very quickly. > > > > I would have it in bold letters "we thoroughly recommend taking the > > latest org release from git and here is how to do it (git pull with a > > label)". Then if and when issues arise they can git pull as and when the > > fixes arrive. > > I do understand why you say this, but these are supposed to be easy > instructions; they should not involve usage of any version control > software. > > > I say this because some distros (debian being the prime example) can be > > very tardy with including latest versions. > > Yes, I agree. The org-latest.{zip,tgz} are what should be recommended > (with the info caveat) > > > And someone who uses emacs would not be overly put out by git installing > > I think that statement requires some modification. For starters, I don't > think either of us use Windows, but I gather that git is not exactly > easy to use on Windows. I agree. On my Windows machine, (and Emacs with org-mode work well there), it was a case of getting the zipped org-mode package, unzipping into a suitable directory (C:\emacs\orgx or C: \home\emacs\lisp\orgx etc), and then add-to-list; load-path and require 'org-install, and maybe a require 'org (not sure). After that, then adding org agenda files paths, diary etc. This uses no Git. And I didn't realize how simple upgrading to a newer orgmode could be. Compiling isn't important at this stage. > > or unzipping I think. > > > >> 2. Then we should lay out an easy route and a full route: > >> 1. Quick and easy > >> Download, set your load-path and (require 'org-install) > >> Optionally compile (within emacs[1]?) > >> Suggested text below. > >> 2. Full install > >> Based on existing instructions > > > > I would leave out the compile all together : advanced users who might > > need it will know how to do it. old elc files are a frequent issue with > > beginners that rears its ugly head time and time again. > > Sounds good to me. I have an intel atom processor and I don't find > myself wanting to compile for extra speed. > > >> What do people think? Is it just the info files which are the issue? > >> What does a single-user machine gain from installation other than info > >> files? > > > > Info files are the issue. The addition to the infopath of the new info > > files is frequently an issue too. I say that because emacs info is my > > nemesis : I have never *properly* understood the way dir files work and > > frequently spend ages scratching my head as to where info files should > > really go ;) > > Hmm, well I'm glad it's not just me :) But I think it would be OK if we > made it clear that, if they are following the easy route, they should > use the html/pdf documentation on the website. > > Dan > > >> Dan > >> > >> Footnotes: > >> > >> [1] How about including in Org-mode a function `org-compile' based on > >> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.php#compiling-org-without-make > >> and `org-reload' > >> > >> Example quick and Easy installation text: > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> > >> 1. Download the latest version > >> .zip and .tar.gz version are kept at > >> http://orgmode.org/org-latest.zip > >> http://orgmode.org/org-latest.tar.gz > >> > >> 2. Extract the archived files > >> This will create a folder called "org-mode". Let's say that the > >> location of this folder is "~/path/to/org-mode" (for Windows see > >> footnote [1]) > >> > >> 3. Add the following lines to your .emacs file (note that we're pointing > >> to the "lisp" folder *within* the main "org-mode" folder): > >> > >> (setq load-path (cons "~/path/to/org-mode/lisp" load-path) > >> (require 'org-install) > >> > >> That's it. However, this will not install the latest info files, so > >> these will be out of date (corresponding to whatever version of Org > >> shipped with your emacs). See XXXX for instructions on installing the > >> info files. > >> > >> Now, Emacs should load whatever version of Org-mode you put at > >> "~/path/to/org-mode". So to update Org in the future, simply delete that > >> folder and replace it with a new one (steps 1 and 2 above). > >> > >> Footnotes: > >> > >> [1] On Windows, this path might look something like > >> "C:\\path\to\org-mode" > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list > >> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode