From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Dan Davison Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Quick and easy installation instructions Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:52:26 +0100 Message-ID: <87zkv4wo9h.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> References: <87tylcy6gw.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=51212 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ozsah-0000eU-LK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 10:52:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ozsag-0006KT-BZ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 10:52:35 -0400 Received: from markov.stats.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.210.1]:46648) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ozsag-0006KK-0i for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 10:52:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Riley's message of "Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:21:18 +0200") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Richard Riley Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi Richard, Richard Riley writes: > Dan Davison writes: > >> I think that the documentation concerning installation should be made >> more user-friendly. My impression is that the Org manual makes all this >> sound much harder than it needs to be, and I suspect that this is an >> entry-barrier for new Org users. For example, the first thing users >> encounter in the manual section is an instruction to edit a Makefile. >> >> I suggest we provide a "quick and easy installation" section to the >> manual, that shows people how to start using the latest version of >> Org-mode without messing about with compilation and installation (I >> rarely compile and have never "installed" Org-mode). It would also be >> helpful to include notes on how to find your ".emacs" file. >> >> This would involve the following changes to section 1.2 Installation: >> >> 1. The first thing it should say would be along the lines of >> "A reasonably recent version of Org is included in Emacs. Are you >> sure you need the latest version of Org? If not, skip to the >> Activation section and start using Org!" > > I would not go that way. org moves very very quickly. > > I would have it in bold letters "we thoroughly recommend taking the > latest org release from git and here is how to do it (git pull with a > label)". Then if and when issues arise they can git pull as and when the > fixes arrive. I do understand why you say this, but these are supposed to be easy instructions; they should not involve usage of any version control software. > I say this because some distros (debian being the prime example) can be > very tardy with including latest versions. Yes, I agree. The org-latest.{zip,tgz} are what should be recommended (with the info caveat) > And someone who uses emacs would not be overly put out by git installing I think that statement requires some modification. For starters, I don't think either of us use Windows, but I gather that git is not exactly easy to use on Windows. > or unzipping I think. > >> >> 2. Then we should lay out an easy route and a full route: >> 1. Quick and easy >> Download, set your load-path and (require 'org-install) >> Optionally compile (within emacs[1]?) >> Suggested text below. >> 2. Full install >> Based on existing instructions > > I would leave out the compile all together : advanced users who might > need it will know how to do it. old elc files are a frequent issue with > beginners that rears its ugly head time and time again. Sounds good to me. I have an intel atom processor and I don't find myself wanting to compile for extra speed. >> What do people think? Is it just the info files which are the issue? >> What does a single-user machine gain from installation other than info >> files? > > Info files are the issue. The addition to the infopath of the new info > files is frequently an issue too. I say that because emacs info is my > nemesis : I have never *properly* understood the way dir files work and > frequently spend ages scratching my head as to where info files should > really go ;) Hmm, well I'm glad it's not just me :) But I think it would be OK if we made it clear that, if they are following the easy route, they should use the html/pdf documentation on the website. Dan > >> >> Dan >> >> Footnotes: >> >> [1] How about including in Org-mode a function `org-compile' based on >> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.php#compiling-org-without-make >> and `org-reload' >> >> Example quick and Easy installation text: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> 1. Download the latest version >> .zip and .tar.gz version are kept at >> http://orgmode.org/org-latest.zip >> http://orgmode.org/org-latest.tar.gz >> >> 2. Extract the archived files >> This will create a folder called "org-mode". Let's say that the >> location of this folder is "~/path/to/org-mode" (for Windows see >> footnote [1]) >> >> 3. Add the following lines to your .emacs file (note that we're pointing >> to the "lisp" folder *within* the main "org-mode" folder): >> >> (setq load-path (cons "~/path/to/org-mode/lisp" load-path) >> (require 'org-install) >> >> That's it. However, this will not install the latest info files, so >> these will be out of date (corresponding to whatever version of Org >> shipped with your emacs). See XXXX for instructions on installing the >> info files. >> >> Now, Emacs should load whatever version of Org-mode you put at >> "~/path/to/org-mode". So to update Org in the future, simply delete that >> folder and replace it with a new one (steps 1 and 2 above). >> >> Footnotes: >> >> [1] On Windows, this path might look something like >> "C:\\path\to\org-mode" >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >>