* how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
@ 2010-06-20 9:49 Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-21 20:10 ` Carsten Dominik
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefano Zacchiroli @ 2010-06-20 9:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Hi all,
I use frequently C-c C-! to put inactive timestamps in Org files.
I do that also in some files which are used not only by me, but shared
among people which are used to different date formats. In that context,
it's annoying for me that Org-mode specifies weekdays using my local
language, which is Italian. Here is an example of a timestamp of mine:
[2010-06-20 dom]
Is there a way to force weekdays to be output using English rather the
Italian? Of course I don't want to change my locale settings just for
this ...
Many thanks in advance for your help,
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-20 9:49 how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format Stefano Zacchiroli
@ 2010-06-21 20:10 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-06-22 7:23 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-06-21 20:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefano Zacchiroli; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Hi Stefano,
this is a FAQ:
http://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.php#timestamps-and-system-time-locale
HTH
- Carsten
On Jun 20, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> Hi all,
> I use frequently C-c C-! to put inactive timestamps in Org files.
>
> I do that also in some files which are used not only by me, but shared
> among people which are used to different date formats. In that
> context,
> it's annoying for me that Org-mode specifies weekdays using my local
> language, which is Italian. Here is an example of a timestamp of mine:
>
> [2010-06-20 dom]
>
> Is there a way to force weekdays to be output using English rather the
> Italian? Of course I don't want to change my locale settings just for
> this ...
>
> Many thanks in advance for your help,
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ.
> Paris 7
> zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
> Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te
> tutoie
> sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que
> j'aime
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
- Carsten
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-21 20:10 ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2010-06-22 7:23 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-22 10:17 ` Ian Barton
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefano Zacchiroli @ 2010-06-22 7:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 10:10:19PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> this is a FAQ:
> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.php#timestamps-and-system-time-locale
Ah, thanks a lot Carsten, I did miss the FAQ entry. (I've only now
noticed that the FAQ it not part of the installed org-mode
documentation, at least not in my distribution package: any reason for
that?)
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 7:23 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
@ 2010-06-22 10:17 ` Ian Barton
2010-06-22 10:37 ` Carsten Dominik
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Ian Barton @ 2010-06-22 10:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefano Zacchiroli; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
On 22/06/10 08:23, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 10:10:19PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>> this is a FAQ:
>> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.php#timestamps-and-system-time-locale
>
> Ah, thanks a lot Carsten, I did miss the FAQ entry. (I've only now
> noticed that the FAQ it not part of the installed org-mode
> documentation, at least not in my distribution package: any reason for
> that?)
>
I think it's not included because it's part of Worg, which I think is
only available either in git or on the web. Maybe Worg should be
included in the standard package.
Ian.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 10:17 ` Ian Barton
@ 2010-06-22 10:37 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-06-22 10:41 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-06-22 10:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: lists; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Stefano Zacchiroli
On Jun 22, 2010, at 12:17 PM, Ian Barton wrote:
> On 22/06/10 08:23, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 10:10:19PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>> this is a FAQ:
>>> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.php#timestamps-and-system-time-
>>> locale
>>
>> Ah, thanks a lot Carsten, I did miss the FAQ entry. (I've only now
>> noticed that the FAQ it not part of the installed org-mode
>> documentation, at least not in my distribution package: any reason
>> for
>> that?)
>>
> I think it's not included because it's part of Worg, which I think
> is only available either in git or on the web. Maybe Worg should be
> included in the standard package.
No, I don't see why. It is on the web, easily accessible.
- Carsten
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 10:37 ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2010-06-22 10:41 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-22 11:24 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefano Zacchiroli @ 2010-06-22 10:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:37:16PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>>(I've only now noticed that the FAQ it not part of the installed
>>>org-mode documentation, at least not in my distribution package: any
>>>reason for that?)
>>
>>I think it's not included because it's part of Worg, which I think
>>is only available either in git or on the web. Maybe Worg should
>>be included in the standard package.
>
> No, I don't see why. It is on the web, easily accessible.
People working offline?
FWIW, that exactly what I was doing when I posted my question: enter the
org-mode doc within Emacs, look for how to customize the date format,
not finding it (as it was only in the FAQ which were not accessible to
me back then).
I think it would make sense to "freeze" wort at each org-mode release
and ship a copy of it in a way that makes it integrated in the Emacs
help system.
Just my 0.02€,
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 10:41 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
@ 2010-06-22 11:24 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
2010-06-22 11:45 ` Richard Riley
2010-06-22 11:30 ` Eric S Fraga
2010-06-22 14:35 ` Nick Dokos
2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Giovanni Ridolfi @ 2010-06-22 11:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefano Zacchiroli; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@upsilon.cc> writes:
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:37:16PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>>>(I've only now noticed that the FAQ it not part of the installed
>>>>org-mode documentation, at least not in my distribution package: any
>>>>reason for that?)
>>>
>>>I think it's not included because it's part of Worg, which I think
>>>is only available either in git or on the web. Maybe Worg should
>>>be included in the standard package.
>>
>> No, I don't see why. It is on the web, easily accessible.
>
> People working offline?
How long? ;-)
> I think it would make sense to "freeze" wort at each org-mode release
> and ship a copy of it in a way that makes it integrated in the Emacs
> help system.
I disagree.
Also EmacsWiki is not shipped in the documentation of Emacs, but I found
important solutions (e.g. regarding newsticker or Gnus, packages
integrated with Emacs!) there.
In the summary of Org-Mode documentation is written:
"There is a website for Org [...] additional information,
frequently asked questions (FAQ), links to tutorials, etc.
This page is located at `http://orgmode.org'."
I think this is enough.
cheers
Giovanni
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 11:24 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
@ 2010-06-22 11:45 ` Richard Riley
2010-06-22 12:36 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Richard Riley @ 2010-06-22 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Giovanni Ridolfi <giovanni.ridolfi@yahoo.it> writes:
> Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@upsilon.cc> writes:
>> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:37:16PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>>>>(I've only now noticed that the FAQ it not part of the installed
>>>>>org-mode documentation, at least not in my distribution package: any
>>>>>reason for that?)
>>>>
>>>>I think it's not included because it's part of Worg, which I think
>>>>is only available either in git or on the web. Maybe Worg should
>>>>be included in the standard package.
>>>
>>> No, I don't see why. It is on the web, easily accessible.
>>
>> People working offline?
> How long? ;-)
Long enough not to be able to read Worg?
>
>> I think it would make sense to "freeze" wort at each org-mode release
>> and ship a copy of it in a way that makes it integrated in the Emacs
>> help system.
>
> I disagree.
I agree with him that a Worg image would be nice.
> Also EmacsWiki is not shipped in the documentation of Emacs, but I found
> important solutions (e.g. regarding newsticker or Gnus, packages
> integrated with Emacs!) there.
Emacs wiki is totally different. Emacs Wiki covers the whole of the
official Emacs packages AND user contributions which are not shipped
with Emacs. Worg is tightly linked with org-mode only - and the things
used to talk to/interface with org.
>
> In the summary of Org-Mode documentation is written:
> "There is a website for Org [...] additional information,
> frequently asked questions (FAQ), links to tutorials, etc.
> This page is located at `http://orgmode.org'."
>
> I think this is enough.
Not if you're offline ;)
The suggestion for the user to clone the worg git is probably the best
but I see no reason, if its not silly amount of work, to include worg
with a org git distribution as a subdir in the same repo.
Benefits would be that Worg could be stamped with same release
markers/tags too and the "local Worg" would be synced with that release.
My 2 pfennigs. Oops. 1.3 cent..
>
> cheers
> Giovanni
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 11:45 ` Richard Riley
@ 2010-06-22 12:36 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
2010-06-22 13:49 ` Richard Riley
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Giovanni Ridolfi @ 2010-06-22 12:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Richard Riley; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
> Giovanni Ridolfi <giovanni.ridolfi@yahoo.it> writes:
> The suggestion for the user to clone the worg git is probably the best
I agree: the people who want to have worg will clone it, other (me ;)
are free not to download it.
> but I see no reason, if its not silly amount of work
^^^ ^^^^^^^
>, to include worg
> with a org git distribution as a subdir in the same repo.
As I fear that it might *not* be 'silly', I suggested not to include
worg.
Will you include worg as it is?
However some sections of worg come to my mind...will we keep them?
the hack section, the "people pages",
the issue tracker, the quotes
the web resources (net connection needed):
blog posts, wikis , web pages made with worg
pages about worg? how to ude git??!!
how to create your SSH key ?!!
> Benefits would be that Worg could be stamped with same release
> markers/tags too and the "local Worg" would be synced with that
> release.
The cons will be:
(0. Maintainers stripping worg off, when merging org-mode to (x)Emacs)
If worg is in org-mode package:
1. Every Emacs user in the world
plus every distribution (and their mirrors) will have such
documentation in their info-directory.
Then in, e.g., Debian you will have it both in the org-mode package AND
in the Emacs-documentation-non-free package!
I think that it is really too much, and also not environmental friendly.
(bandwidth, disk space...)
let's ask:
Who will benefit from this choice? 400 people using Org-Mode?
does the squeeze worth the juice for 400 people?
2. the org-mode.zip/tgz file will become bigger
(bandwidth (who's paying for it?) for downloads from orgmode.org)
cheers,
Giovanni
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 12:36 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
@ 2010-06-22 13:49 ` Richard Riley
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Richard Riley @ 2010-06-22 13:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Giovanni Ridolfi <giovanni.ridolfi@yahoo.it> writes:
> Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
>> Giovanni Ridolfi <giovanni.ridolfi@yahoo.it> writes:
>
>> The suggestion for the user to clone the worg git is probably the best
> I agree: the people who want to have worg will clone it, other (me ;)
> are free not to download it.
>
>> but I see no reason, if its not silly amount of work
> ^^^ ^^^^^^^
>>, to include worg
>> with a org git distribution as a subdir in the same repo.
>
> As I fear that it might *not* be 'silly', I suggested not to include
> worg.
You fear? Or you know ? ;)
Git clone is pretty straightforward.
I'm not particularly biased either way but just to play devil's advocate
....
> Will you include worg as it is?
Well, yes.
> However some sections of worg come to my mind...will we keep them?
Worg is worg. All of them. All that is in git.
> the hack section, the "people pages",
> the issue tracker, the quotes
> the web resources (net connection needed):
> blog posts, wikis , web pages made with worg
You can look at a local copy while online and browse remote links
you know. Clearly no one is saying it should package all the remote
link destinations too ....
> pages about worg? how to ude git??!!
> how to create your SSH key ?!!
Hmmm. I'm not sure I follow you. Its in git. Just ship the lot as a sub
component. Or possibly as a make target. e.g "make worg" pulls it
in. These references to non org resources are a little
unnecessary. Worg. No more no less.
>
>> Benefits would be that Worg could be stamped with same release
>> markers/tags too and the "local Worg" would be synced with that
>> release.
>
> The cons will be:
> (0. Maintainers stripping worg off, when merging org-mode to (x)Emacs)
> If worg is in org-mode package:
> 1. Every Emacs user in the world
> plus every distribution (and their mirrors) will have such
> documentation in their info-directory.
I'm not sure I follow your thinking. That is already true of all SW you
install. As is the argument "you can see it online". That is also true
of the org manuals. remember the OPs main request was to facilitate
offline access. And many of us work offline a lot. I do on my laptop. I
can understand his initial request.
> Then in, e.g., Debian you will have it both in the org-mode package AND
> in the Emacs-documentation-non-free package!
>
> I think that it is really too much, and also not environmental friendly.
> (bandwidth, disk space...)
Would you like to censor the contrib sub dir ;) Not all of that is used
by all people too. Disk space argument is a little flimsy to be honest.
> let's ask:
> Who will benefit from this choice? 400 people using Org-Mode?
> does the squeeze worth the juice for 400 people?
Worg is a valuable help resource. Its not that huge in comparison to
other things.
>
> 2. the org-mode.zip/tgz file will become bigger
> (bandwidth (who's paying for it?) for downloads from orgmode.org)
I dont think bandwidth is really that much of an issue in an incremental
git pull. We stopped thinking about people on 100 baud lines a while
back ;) Well, I did ... ;)
Cheers,
r.
>
> cheers,
> Giovanni
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 10:41 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-22 11:24 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
@ 2010-06-22 11:30 ` Eric S Fraga
2010-06-22 14:35 ` Nick Dokos
2 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2010-06-22 11:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefano Zacchiroli; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 884 bytes --]
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:41:09 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@upsilon.cc> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:37:16PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> >>>(I've only now noticed that the FAQ it not part of the installed
> >>>org-mode documentation, at least not in my distribution package: any
> >>>reason for that?)
> >>
> >>I think it's not included because it's part of Worg, which I think
> >>is only available either in git or on the web. Maybe Worg should
> >>be included in the standard package.
> >
> > No, I don't see why. It is on the web, easily accessible.
>
> People working offline?
Simply clone the Worg git repository on your computer and update it
frequently (git pull)? I do this on my laptop to ensure I have
everything I need org related even when off-line... well, except for
the mailing list unfortunately :(
My own 2¢ (Canadian ;-).
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 75 bytes --]
--
Eric S Fraga
GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29 570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D
[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --]
_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 10:41 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-22 11:24 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
2010-06-22 11:30 ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2010-06-22 14:35 ` Nick Dokos
2010-06-22 15:34 ` Sebastian Rose
2010-06-22 16:40 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2010-06-22 14:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefano Zacchiroli; +Cc: nicholas.dokos, emacs-orgmode
Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@upsilon.cc> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:37:16PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> >>>(I've only now noticed that the FAQ it not part of the installed
> >>>org-mode documentation, at least not in my distribution package: any
> >>>reason for that?)
> >>
> >>I think it's not included because it's part of Worg, which I think
> >>is only available either in git or on the web. Maybe Worg should
> >>be included in the standard package.
> >
> > No, I don't see why. It is on the web, easily accessible.
>
> People working offline?
>
Next time you are online, just git clone the Worg repository to your
machine. Then periodically, git pull. Problem solved.
Nick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 14:35 ` Nick Dokos
@ 2010-06-22 15:34 ` Sebastian Rose
2010-06-22 16:40 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2010-06-22 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nicholas.dokos; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Stefano Zacchiroli
Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:
> Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@upsilon.cc> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:37:16PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>> >>>(I've only now noticed that the FAQ it not part of the installed
>> >>>org-mode documentation, at least not in my distribution package: any
>> >>>reason for that?)
>> >>
>> >>I think it's not included because it's part of Worg, which I think
>> >>is only available either in git or on the web. Maybe Worg should
>> >>be included in the standard package.
>> >
>> > No, I don't see why. It is on the web, easily accessible.
>>
>> People working offline?
>>
>
> Next time you are online, just git clone the Worg repository to your
> machine. Then periodically, git pull. Problem solved.
+1
Sebastian
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 14:35 ` Nick Dokos
2010-06-22 15:34 ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2010-06-22 16:40 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-22 18:30 ` Nick Dokos
1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefano Zacchiroli @ 2010-06-22 16:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:35:11AM -0400, Nick Dokos wrote:
> Next time you are online, just git clone the Worg repository to your
> machine. Then periodically, git pull. Problem solved.
Sure, the problem will be solved for *me* (in fact, it already is: I
cloned the Worg repo just a minute later reading some of the other posts
in that thread :-)). I'm fairly sure that others will have the same
problem, until they discover the Worg repo, whereas they surely already
know about the in-Emacs org-mode documentation. YMMV.
Take this just as a feature request entitled "please ship Worg snapshots
as part of the org-mode documentation"; as a feature request, feel free
to ignore it if you don't think it's worth implementing.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 16:40 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
@ 2010-06-22 18:30 ` Nick Dokos
2010-06-23 8:00 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2010-06-22 18:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefano Zacchiroli; +Cc: nicholas.dokos, emacs-orgmode
Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@upsilon.cc> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:35:11AM -0400, Nick Dokos wrote:
> > Next time you are online, just git clone the Worg repository to your
> > machine. Then periodically, git pull. Problem solved.
>
> Sure, the problem will be solved for *me* (in fact, it already is: I
> cloned the Worg repo just a minute later reading some of the other posts
> in that thread :-)). I'm fairly sure that others will have the same
> problem, until they discover the Worg repo, whereas they surely already
> know about the in-Emacs org-mode documentation. YMMV.
>
... and others can see this thread in the mailing list and follow suit.
Or they can use the info doc (section 1.1, "Summary") to find the org
website and follow the link to Worg. Or they can ask on the list. And
once they know how to get there, there will be no need for another
documentation blob to land on *everybody's* disk. Besides, if they can't
find it in one of those ways, what makes you think that they will be able
to find it even if it is on their disk?
> Take this just as a feature request entitled "please ship Worg snapshots
> as part of the org-mode documentation"; as a feature request, feel free
> to ignore it if you don't think it's worth implementing.
>
Just in case it's not clear already :-) I personally don't think it's
worth it (but I am a marginal voice at best.) What might be worth it is
adding a sentence or two in the Summary section of the orgmode manual,
pointing out Worg's existence: if you don't know about it, it's impossible
to find, but once you know, the problem becomes trivial.
Regards,
Nick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-22 18:30 ` Nick Dokos
@ 2010-06-23 8:00 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-23 9:52 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefano Zacchiroli @ 2010-06-23 8:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
[ quoted text re-ordered ]
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 02:30:28PM -0400, Nick Dokos wrote:
> Just in case it's not clear already :-) I personally don't think it's
> worth it (but I am a marginal voice at best.) What might be worth it is
Yes, that is pretty clear :), but thanks for reinstating.
Since, I find a couple of non-sequitur in your reasoning belows; I
follow-up just for the sake of the argument.
> ... and others can see this thread in the mailing list and follow suit.
> Or they can use the info doc (section 1.1, "Summary") to find the org
> website and follow the link to Worg. Or they can ask on the list. And
No, they can't, *while they are offline*.
> once they know how to get there, there will be no need for another
> documentation blob to land on *everybody's* disk. Besides, if they can't
That is not really a sound counter argument: most GNU-Emacs
distributions are package based and can easily split out -doc packages
to avoid wasting space on *everybody's* disk.
> find it in one of those ways, what makes you think that they will be able
> to find it even if it is on their disk?
Well, the Emacs help system is *very* powerful: once you entered a
specific info topic, you can C-s and it will look for text in all the
documentation; I would have personally found the information without
bothering the list, had it been there.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-23 8:00 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
@ 2010-06-23 9:52 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
2010-06-23 10:02 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Giovanni Ridolfi @ 2010-06-23 9:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefano Zacchiroli; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@upsilon.cc> writes:
Dì bän só, fantèsma!
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 02:30:28PM -0400, Nick Dokos wrote:
>> Or they can use the info doc (section 1.1, "Summary") to find the org
>> website and follow the link to Worg. Or they can ask on the list. And
>
> No, they can't, *while they are offline*.
So? they have to *wait* until they're online again.
Is it so difficult? They have only to 'postpone(GDT)' the
solution of such problem.
And I believe that the *important features* and tricks are already
covered by both the manual and the variable description in the source
code.
>> once they know how to get there, there will be no need for another
>> documentation blob to land on *everybody's* disk. Besides, if they can't
>
> That is not really a sound counter argument:
Sorry to contradict you, but this *is* a counter argument.
In mail <20100622104109.GA17922@upsilon.cc> you wrote:
>>>> I think it would make sense to "freeze" wort at each org-mode release
>>>> and ship a copy of it
>>>> in a way that makes it integrated in the Emacs help system.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and in mail <20100622164051.GA25088@upsilon.cc> you wrote:
>>>> Take this just as a feature request entitled
>>>> "please ship Worg snapshots as part of the org-mode documentation";
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Until now the "org-mode documentation" [i.e. the info file] has
been *inside* the org-mode package. So it is perfectly
reasonable that *we* understood/inferred
that you wanted to ship worg within the org-mode.zip package.
> most GNU-Emacs
> distributions are package based and can easily split out -doc packages
> to avoid wasting space on *everybody's* disk.
Thanks for suggesting, /now/, to buid a different package.
And I completely agree with you: *if* somebody will package
the worg site it *must* be packaged in a
*different* package (e.g. 'org-worg') and not in the Org-Mode package.
> Well, the Emacs help system is *very* powerful: once you entered a
> specific info topic
Do you suggest to integrare org-worg in the info system?
The files are written in 'org syntax' they should be
converted in '(tex)info syntax'.
Is it an easy task? I don't think so, but maybe Richard will
enlight me again ;-) as he already did with the bandwidth/disk matter.
In the end I think that 'git clone' is *the best option*: less work for
org-mode developers/maintainer(s) and the people, who want it on their
disks, are free to clone it... and also to commit ;-)
cheers,
Giovanni
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread* Re: how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format
2010-06-23 9:52 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
@ 2010-06-23 10:02 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefano Zacchiroli @ 2010-06-23 10:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 11:52:14AM +0200, Giovanni Ridolfi wrote:
> In mail <20100622104109.GA17922@upsilon.cc> you wrote:
> >>>> I think it would make sense to "freeze" wort at each org-mode release
> >>>> and ship a copy of it
> >>>> in a way that makes it integrated in the Emacs help system.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> and in mail <20100622164051.GA25088@upsilon.cc> you wrote:
> >>>> Take this just as a feature request entitled
> >>>> "please ship Worg snapshots as part of the org-mode documentation";
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Until now the "org-mode documentation" [i.e. the info file] has
> been *inside* the org-mode package. So it is perfectly
> reasonable that *we* understood/inferred
> that you wanted to ship worg within the org-mode.zip package.
Sure, I intended that indeed.
But the fact that it is in that .zip file does not imply that it will
end up in the same monolithic package that users install: distribution
editors routinely split up monolithic "upstream" packages in several
different "downstream" packages.
So, sorry to disappoint you, but I haven't really changed my initial
request.
> In the end I think that 'git clone' is *the best option*: less work for
> org-mode developers/maintainer(s) and the people, who want it on their
> disks, are free to clone it... and also to commit ;-)
I agree that *currently* it is the best option, and as reported I've
already cloned the repo. I was just requesting a feature that could have
helped other users like myself (you know, not all users are equal in
their needs). Anyhow, it is pretty evident that my goal of having
self-contained offline documentation is just not shared by others on
this list, so don't worry, I'll shut up in the future.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-06-23 10:12 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 18+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2010-06-20 9:49 how to customize (inactive) timestamp textual format Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-21 20:10 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-06-22 7:23 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-22 10:17 ` Ian Barton
2010-06-22 10:37 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-06-22 10:41 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-22 11:24 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
2010-06-22 11:45 ` Richard Riley
2010-06-22 12:36 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
2010-06-22 13:49 ` Richard Riley
2010-06-22 11:30 ` Eric S Fraga
2010-06-22 14:35 ` Nick Dokos
2010-06-22 15:34 ` Sebastian Rose
2010-06-22 16:40 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-22 18:30 ` Nick Dokos
2010-06-23 8:00 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2010-06-23 9:52 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
2010-06-23 10:02 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
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