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From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Org-syntax: Intra-word markup
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2021 21:24:05 +0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <sod9ac$uul$1@ciao.gmane.io> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <878rx2bzhw.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>

On 03/12/2021 02:03, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
>> Denis Maier writes:
>>
>>> As for suggestions: If just using /intra/word creates ambiguities, what
>>> about the asciidoc solution? So //intra//word?
> 
> I sympathize to the idea of intra-word emphasis, but the syntax above is
> going to cause some ambiguous situations.

I suppose, some more general solution is required.

> I do think the marker + zero-width space is one way to go. We could, as
> an improvement, consider zero-width spaces around emphasis markers to be
> part of the markup, and replace them along during export.

Zero-space characters adjacent to emphasis markers is a better idea than 
replacing any zero space. However I agree with Juan Manuel that white 
space characters, especially completely invisible (I am not Eli who sees 
such special characters by moving cursor through them) should not be 
overloaded. From my point of view, it is acceptable to use zero width 
spaces as a workaround but they should not become official part of Org 
syntax.

> Another solution is to introduce a less-subtle, but less prone to
> ambiguity, syntax, e.g.,
> 
>                    /{bold}/markup   or   /|bold|/markup
> 
> where /{ }/  or /|  |/ become "extended" markers.

More explicit markup leaves less room for ambiguities, and I like the 
idea due to this reason. On the other hand it diverges from principle of 
lightweight markup. The almost only special character in TeX is "\", 
HTML has three ones "&<>" with simple escape rules. Org uses many 
special characters to avoid verbosity and requires some tricks to escape 
them. Markers like "\{" make Org more verbose but do not make it more 
strict, a lot of things still rely on heuristics.

I have an idea what can be done when some special markup is required 
that is not fit into current syntax. Unfortunately some new constructs 
should be introduced anyway: inline objects and multiline elements that 
represent simplified result of parsed Org structures:

     ((italic "intra") "word")

wrapped with some markup. It should satisfy any special needs (and even 
should allow to create invalid impossible constructs). Maybe idea of 
combination of lightweight markup and low-level blocks better suits for 
some other project with more expressive internal representation. In Org 
it may become the most hated feature.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-12-03 14:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 72+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-12-02 10:50 Denis Maier
2021-12-02 11:18 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-02 11:30   ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-02 11:36     ` Denis Maier
2021-12-02 12:01       ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-02 11:42     ` Marco Wahl
2021-12-02 11:50       ` Denis Maier
2021-12-02 12:10         ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-02 12:40           ` Denis Maier
2021-12-02 12:54             ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-02 13:14               ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-02 13:28                 ` Denis Maier
2021-12-02 12:48           ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-02 12:02       ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-02 12:00     ` Ihor Radchenko
     [not found]       ` <87r1avtdjy.fsf@ucl.ac.uk>
2021-12-02 12:27         ` Denis Maier
2021-12-02 13:06           ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-02 12:28       ` Denis Maier
2021-12-02 12:55         ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-02 11:58 ` Timothy
2021-12-02 12:26   ` Denis Maier
2021-12-02 13:07     ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-02 15:51       ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-02 18:11         ` Tom Gillespie
2021-12-02 19:09           ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-04 13:07             ` Org-syntax: emphasis and not English punctuation Max Nikulin
2021-12-04 16:42               ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-02 20:47           ` Org-syntax: Intra-word markup Denis Maier
2021-12-02 22:44             ` Samuel Wales
2021-12-03 14:53           ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-03 23:51           ` Tim Cross
2021-12-04 15:01             ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-05 23:34               ` Russell Adams
2021-12-05 23:37             ` Russell Adams
2021-12-06  1:39               ` Samuel Wales
2021-12-02 19:03       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-12-02 19:34         ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-02 23:05           ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-12-02 23:24             ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-03 14:24         ` Max Nikulin [this message]
2021-12-03 15:01           ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-04 15:57           ` Denis Maier
2021-12-04 17:53             ` Tom Gillespie
2021-12-04 18:37               ` John Kitchin
2021-12-04 21:16                 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-06 10:57                 ` Raw Org AST snippets for "impossible" markup Max Nikulin
2021-12-06 15:45                   ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-06 16:56                     ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-08 13:09                     ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-08 23:19                       ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-08 23:35                         ` John Kitchin
2021-12-09  7:01                           ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-09 14:56                             ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-09 16:11                               ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-09 22:27                                 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-01-03 14:34                                   ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-04 19:04               ` Org-syntax: Intra-word markup Timothy
2021-12-04 21:48                 ` Tom Gillespie
2021-12-06 10:59                   ` Max Nikulin
2022-01-28 14:52                   ` Max Nikulin
2022-01-29  3:13                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-01-29 13:05                       ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-02-02 15:28                         ` Max Nikulin
2022-02-02 20:01                           ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-02-03 12:10                             ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-06 11:01               ` Denis Maier
2022-01-28 12:12 ` [PATCH] Intra-word markup: \relax Max Nikulin
2022-01-28 13:13   ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-02-02 15:42     ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-02 13:36 Org-syntax: Intra-word markup autofrettage
2021-12-02 15:24 ` Robert Pluim
2021-12-02 17:11   ` autofrettage

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