org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[James Harkins]

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I had a problem with mobile org sync, which I finally tracked down to the
handling of symlinks in org-mobile-push.

Setup: I want to have a different file name for my school org file
depending on fall or spring semester, but I hoped to avoid changing
org-agenda-files once a semester. So I symlinked semester-fall.org to
~/Documents/mobileorg/semester.org.

It seems that org-mobile-push resolves the symlink to determine the
filename to drop into the online share. So MobileOrg knows about
semester-fall.org, but there is no file by that name in org-directory. So,
org-mobile-pull opens an empty buffer for semester-fall.org and, as it's
empty, of course the parent node can't be found.

My question: Is there a technical reason why org-mobile-push must use the
symlink target's filename, instead of the filename that actually lives
under org-directory? Other parts of the code assume the filename under
org-directory. I can think of two possibilities:

- One should not put symlinks into org-directory, or at least make sure the
symlink's name is the same as the target. If this is an intentional
limitation, it should be documented.

- Or, the symlink resolution is not actually necessary and it causes
problems. In that case, it's a bug that should be fixed.

Which is it? :-)

hjh

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org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[James Harkins]

Sorry for resending as a new thread. I had wanted to reply to my
original message on gmane, but gmane's search fails to locate the
thread (?).

Anyway, I still don't understand the rationale for the current
behavior. Does anyone know why org-mobile-push resolves the agenda
files' names to symlink targets?

Thanks,
hjh


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 11:42 AM
Subject: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

I had a problem with mobile org sync, which I finally tracked down to
the handling of symlinks in org-mobile-push.

Setup: I want to have a different file name for my school org file
depending on fall or spring semester, but I hoped to avoid changing
org-agenda-files once a semester. So I symlinked semester-fall.org to
~/Documents/mobileorg/semester.org.

It seems that org-mobile-push resolves the symlink to determine the
filename to drop into the online share. So MobileOrg knows about
semester-fall.org, but there is no file by that name in org-directory.
So, when I sync captures back to the computer, org-mobile-pull opens a
buffer for semester-fall.org, but it's empty because there is no file
by that name under org-directory -- so, of course the parent node
can't be found.

My question: Is there a technical reason why org-mobile-push must use
the symlink target's filename, instead of the filename that actually
lives under org-directory? Other parts of the code assume the filename
under org-directory. I can think of two possibilities:

- One should not put symlinks into org-directory, or at least make
sure the symlink's name is the same as the target. If this is an
intentional limitation, it should be documented.

- Or, the symlink resolution is not actually necessary and it causes
problems. In that case, it's a bug that should be fixed.

Which is it? :-)

hjh


-- 
James Harkins /// dewdrop world
jamshark70@dewdrop-world.net
http://www.dewdrop-world.net

"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal."  -- Whitman

blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
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Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[Bastien]

James Harkins <jamshark70@gmail.com> writes:

> Anyway, I still don't understand the rationale for the current
> behavior. Does anyone know why org-mobile-push resolves the agenda
> files' names to symlink targets?

The problem is that there is no active maintainer on org-mobile.el 
right now...  by default this is me, but I'm a bit swamped.

I'll have a look, but anyone faster than me is welcome!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[J. David Boyd]

Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:

> James Harkins <jamshark70@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Anyway, I still don't understand the rationale for the current
>> behavior. Does anyone know why org-mobile-push resolves the agenda
>> files' names to symlink targets?
>
> The problem is that there is no active maintainer on org-mobile.el 
> right now...  by default this is me, but I'm a bit swamped.
>
> I'll have a look, but anyone faster than me is welcome!

How would we do that?   Are there instructions somewhere on the proper
way to create a patch file for this?  The proper mode for diff?  What
has to be in a changelog?

There are a few changes I'd like to see in mobile.el myself, and I'm
willing to make them, if I know how to submit.

Dave

Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[Bastien]

Hi David,

david@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:

> How would we do that?   Are there instructions somewhere on the proper
> way to create a patch file for this?  The proper mode for diff?  What
> has to be in a changelog?
>
> There are a few changes I'd like to see in mobile.el myself, and I'm
> willing to make them, if I know how to submit.

http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html

HTH,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[Bastien]

Hi James,

James Harkins <jamshark70@gmail.com> writes:

> - One should not put symlinks into org-directory, or at least make
> sure the symlink's name is the same as the target. If this is an
> intentional limitation, it should be documented.
>
> - Or, the symlink resolution is not actually necessary and it causes
> problems. In that case, it's a bug that should be fixed.
>
> Which is it? :-)

I'd say the first one :)

-- 
 Bastien

Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[James Harkins]

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On Jan 3, 2013 8:57 PM, "Bastien" <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
> James Harkins <jamshark70@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > - One should not put symlinks into org-directory, or at least make
> > sure the symlink's name is the same as the target. If this is an
> > intentional limitation, it should be documented.
> >
> > - Or, the symlink resolution is not actually necessary and it causes
> > problems. In that case, it's a bug that should be fixed.
> >
> > Which is it? :-)
>
> I'd say the first one :)

Hm, I'd suggest a third possibility then:

- There isn't actually a good reason for the restriction and nobody knows
why it's done this way, but it's too much trouble to fix for a corner case
that's easily worked around.

The outcome is the same as the first: document the issue.

hjh

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Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[Bastien]

Hi James,

James Harkins <jamshark70@gmail.com> writes:

> The outcome is the same as the first: document the issue.

Org is yours :)

-- 
 Bastien

Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[James Harkins]

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On Jan 4, 2013 11:34 PM, "Bastien" <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
> James Harkins <jamshark70@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > The outcome is the same as the first: document the issue.
>
> Org is yours :)

I worked in software support for awhile, so... I know what it means, e.g.,
when some behavior is labeled a "known issue" ;-)

I'm not sure of the procedure to contribute to the org manual, but I might
suggest something like this, under MobileOrg section B2:

~~
This operation copies all files currently listed in org-mobile-files to the
directory org-mobile-directory. By default this list contains all agenda
files (as listed in org-agenda-files), but additional files can be included
by customizing org-mobile-files. File names will be staged with paths
relative to org-directory, so all files should be inside this directory.*
... (rest of paragraph)

* It is recommended to store the source org files physically under
org-directory. If this is not practical, org-directory may contain symlinks
to the org files, provided that the symlink has the same name as the
original file. If the original file is called "mylife.org," then the
symlink should also be called mylife.org. If the names are different,
pulling edited nodes from MobileOrg will fail.
~~

hjh

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Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[Bastien]

Hi James,

James Harkins <jamshark70@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm not sure of the procedure to contribute to the org manual, but I
> might suggest something like this, under MobileOrg section B2:

I added a footnote:
http://orgmode.org/cgit.cgi/org-mode.git/commit/?id=76684b5

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[James Harkins]

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On Jan 6, 2013 9:57 PM, "Bastien" <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
> James Harkins <jamshark70@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I'm not sure of the procedure to contribute to the org manual, but I
> > might suggest something like this, under MobileOrg section B2:
>
> I added a footnote:
> http://orgmode.org/cgit.cgi/org-mode.git/commit/?id=76684b5

(The thread that wouldn't die...)

I just looked at the footnote text... why did we go from "symlinks work if
the name is the same" to an unqualified "symlinks are not supported"?

It isn't always feasible, or even desirable in some cases, to keep all your
org files under org-directory. For instance, I have a separate project
folder for a series of concerts to be given in the spring. If I back up
this folder, I want the project's org file to come with it. The updated
documentation seems to suggest that I should store the org file physically
under org-directory and place a symlink under the project directory, making
backups a bit more complex ("oh my, I forgot again what is the cp or rsync
option to follow links... man page...").

I can accept the same-name requirement, but it really makes much more sense
to me to keep org files physically with their projects. So I'd kindly
request that future org-mobile changes avoid breaking the use of symlinks
in org-directory (which currently does work). Documenting that symlinks are
supported (with the one caveat about the filename) is a step in that
direction.

hjh

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Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[Bastien]

James Harkins <jamshark70@gmail.com> writes:

> I just looked at the footnote text... why did we go from "symlinks
> work if the name is the same" to an unqualified "symlinks are not
> supported"?

I overlooked the difference.

Please provide a patch.

~$ git clone git://orgmode.org/org-mode.git
~$ emacs &

C-x f org-mode/doc/org.texi
... [edit edit edit] ...
C-x s
C-x v =
C-x s

Send the file you saved and you're done!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: org-mobile-push vs. symlinks

[Bastien]

Hi James,

James Harkins <jamshark70@gmail.com> writes:

> I just looked at the footnote text... why did we go from "symlinks
> work if the name is the same" to an unqualified "symlinks are not
> supported"?

Should be fixed now...  thanks,

-- 
 Bastien