mail integration, advice?

mail integration, advice?

[Matt Price]

I'd like to take one more shot at returning to text-based email within
emacs, mostly because I want to be able to integrate mail easily into
my org-mode workflow.  The last time I tried this I used wanderlust,
and I'd be willing to give it a try again but a couple of things have
discouraged me in the past:
- wl causes emacs to freeze up when it checks or sends mail, and can
take quite a long while to complete these operations
- wl seems to have gone quasi-dormant, with very little activity on
the mailing list and no recent releases; it also relies on two other
packages, FLIM and APEL, with similarly dormant mailing lists

So, I'm wondering what solutions other org users have settled on.  My
current hopes for this:
- allow me to continue using Thunderbird as a backup for e.g. images
and highly formatted mails -- thunderbird is currently set up w/ local
copies of IMAP folders for my current mail, plus local archives served
on by dovecot that can be accessed both by thunderbird and by e.g.
wanderlust.
- fast search and easy-to-manage virtual folders of some kind -- I see
mu and notmuch are very strong on both these fronts
- easy, stable harvesting of email-based data through org-capture (if
possible, this should allow me to archive a message and still be able
to find it when I follow an org message link)
- would be nice if configuration didn't require TONS of lisp code, a I
am a very slow coder and these kinds of configuration tasks can be
very daunting for me.
- shouldn't slow down my workflow too much -- I should be able to very
quickly check my email then return to an org buffer to continue
writing.

Thanks very much for your suggestions! best,
matt

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Carson Chittom]

Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:

> I'd like to take one more shot at returning to text-based email within
> emacs, mostly because I want to be able to integrate mail easily into
> my org-mode workflow.  The last time I tried this I used wanderlust,
> and I'd be willing to give it a try again but a couple of things have
> discouraged me in the past:

I'm in a somewhat similar situation (although in my case it's actually
the reverse: I want to be able to integrate org-mode into my mail
workflow).

> - wl causes emacs to freeze up when it checks or sends mail, and can
> take quite a long while to complete these operations

I'm using Gnus, not Wanderlust, but it has the same problem, of course
(my understanding is that it's actually Emacs which has the problem).
In addition, I check my mail by logging in (via SSH) to my personal
machine at home, which has a low-bandwidth DSL connection, so any
slowness is magnified.  I've dealt with it by simply running a local
IMAP server--Dovecot, in my case, though I hear lots of people have good
results using just offlineimap--and using fetchmail to pull from my
ISP's mailserver.  My project for the weekend is to set up Dovecot's
Sieve support (Pigeonhole) to mirror my previous filtering rules.

> - wl seems to have gone quasi-dormant, with very little activity on
> the mailing list and no recent releases; it also relies on two other
> packages, FLIM and APEL, with similarly dormant mailing lists

Gnus is currently under heavy development and only requires a recent
(22, 23, 24) Emacs.  Not trying to "convert" you, but you did bring it
up. :) 

> - fast search and easy-to-manage virtual folders of some kind -- I see
> mu and notmuch are very strong on both these fronts

I'm looking to set up mairix, which Gnus supports, but I haven't
yet.  Mairix itself though just needs mail in Maildir or mbox formats,
from what I understand.

I hope that was helpful--probably not, though.  :)

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Tassilo Horn]

Carson Chittom <carson@wistly.net> writes:

>> - fast search and easy-to-manage virtual folders of some kind -- I
>> see mu and notmuch are very strong on both these fronts
>
> I'm looking to set up mairix, which Gnus supports, but I haven't yet.
> Mairix itself though just needs mail in Maildir or mbox formats, from
> what I understand.

If you talk to an IMAP or Gmane nntp server (remote or a local dovecot),
you can simply hit `G G' on a group to search it without having to
configure anything (in recent Gnus versions).  Almost all IMAP servers
index at least to/from/subject for fast searches, and some also have
fulltext search plugins (e.g., dovecot has one).

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Carson Chittom]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> If you talk to an IMAP or Gmane nntp server (remote or a local dovecot),
> you can simply hit `G G' on a group to search it without having to
> configure anything (in recent Gnus versions).  Almost all IMAP servers
> index at least to/from/subject for fast searches, and some also have
> fulltext search plugins (e.g., dovecot has one).

Yeah, the one "problem" I have with Gnus is that it does so damn
much, I have trouble remembering it all.  But seriously, good to know,
and thanks for saving me some work.

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Rasmus]

Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:

> I'd like to take one more shot at returning to text-based email within
> emacs, mostly because I want to be able to integrate mail easily into
> my org-mode workflow.  

It's worth it. 

> The last time I tried this I used wanderlust,
> and I'd be willing to give it a try again but a couple of things have
> discouraged me in the past:

I used wl but switched to Gnus. 

> - wl causes emacs to freeze up when it checks or sends mail, and can
> take quite a long while to complete these operations

I know of no solution to this.  You could run a dedicated Gnus process
if it bothers you.

> - wl seems to have gone quasi-dormant, with very little activity on
> the mailing list and no recent releases; it also relies on two other
> packages, FLIM and APEL, with similarly dormant mailing lists

Arch updates wl often.  Latest package is three months old.

https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/any/wanderlust/

> - allow me to continue using Thunderbird as a backup for e.g. images
> and highly formatted mails -- thunderbird is currently set up w/ local
> copies of IMAP folders for my current mail, plus local archives served
> on by dovecot that can be accessed both by thunderbird and by e.g.
> wanderlust.

Message-mode handles txt mails well.  There is some org extension for
html mails (although I don't like html mails).

IMAP should be fine.  You can run it local if you want.  I do
offlineimap + dovecot. 

> - fast search and easy-to-manage virtual folders of some kind -- I see
> mu and notmuch are very strong on both these fronts

notmuch and mu4emacs are probably also easier to set up.

> - easy, stable harvesting of email-based data through org-capture

Use bbdb3.

>  (if possible, this should allow me to archive a message and still be
> able to find it when I follow an org message link)

You can capture gnus mails through org-capture.  I don't know how robust
the links are.

> - would be nice if configuration didn't require TONS of lisp code, a I
> am a very slow coder and these kinds of configuration tasks can be
> very daunting for me.

I have tons of list configuration for Gnus. . .  But half of it is for
weird stuff such as random signature, random `avatar', several SMTP etc.

> - shouldn't slow down my workflow too much -- I should be able to very
> quickly check my email then return to an org buffer to continue
> writing.

I have F9 bring up the Gnus Group buffer.  G for update.  Elegant
auto-fetching of new mails from foreign imap is something I have not
solved yet. 

-- 
Enought with the bla bla!

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Tassilo Horn]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

>>  (if possible, this should allow me to archive a message and still be
>> able to find it when I follow an org message link)
>
> You can capture gnus mails through org-capture.  I don't know how
> robust the links are.

The links are saved by combining the group and Message-Id of the mail.
So if Matt means "move a message to some archive group" with archiving a
message, the links will be broken.

But there's `gnus-summary-article-move-hook' that could be used to track
article movements and update links.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Florian Friesdorf]

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On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:47:40 -0400, Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd like to take one more shot at returning to text-based email within
> emacs, mostly because I want to be able to integrate mail easily into
> my org-mode workflow.  The last time I tried this I used wanderlust,
> and I'd be willing to give it a try again but a couple of things have
> discouraged me in the past:
> - wl causes emacs to freeze up when it checks or sends mail, and can
> take quite a long while to complete these operations

I fetch emails with offlineimap - it seems to use a lot of
bandwith/time/cpu and I heard that mbsync might be better - nevertheless
it does it's job. The emails are placed into a maildir and indexed and
tagged with notmuch via a post sync hook.

I'm very happy with emacs + org-mode + notmuch, creating tasks from
email that link back to the email being one of the small but great
things.

> - wl seems to have gone quasi-dormant, with very little activity on
> the mailing list and no recent releases; it also relies on two other
> packages, FLIM and APEL, with similarly dormant mailing lists
> 
> So, I'm wondering what solutions other org users have settled on.  My
> current hopes for this:
> - allow me to continue using Thunderbird as a backup for e.g. images
> and highly formatted mails -- thunderbird is currently set up w/ local
> copies of IMAP folders for my current mail, plus local archives served
> on by dovecot that can be accessed both by thunderbird and by e.g.
> wanderlust.

you could index the thunderbird folders with notmuch, but I don't know
how it will behave if you move or delete messages.

> - fast search and easy-to-manage virtual folders of some kind -- I see
> mu and notmuch are very strong on both these fronts

notmuch searches are very fast, but the database takes disk space.
Indexing in recent versions is very very quick.

mail: 7.4GB
notmuch db: 3.6GB

> - easy, stable harvesting of email-based data through org-capture (if
> possible, this should allow me to archive a message and still be able
> to find it when I follow an org message link)

notmuch solely works with tags: something is in your inbox, if it has
the inbox tag. If notmuch starts to support moving messages to folder
and giving them implicit tags, the link would still be through notmuch
and not to a specific file. Maybe notmuch supports this already, I did
not have the time to investigate.

> - would be nice if configuration didn't require TONS of lisp code, a I
> am a very slow coder and these kinds of configuration tasks can be
> very daunting for me.

close to zero configuration needed and full "GUI" support through emacs
customize.

> - shouldn't slow down my workflow too much -- I should be able to very
> quickly check my email then return to an org buffer to continue
> writing.

It actually sped up my workflow massively and was together with org-mode
the number one reason to switch to emacs, after very very long years of
using vi derivates.

-- 
Florian Friesdorf <flo@chaoflow.net>
  GPG FPR: 7A13 5EEE 1421 9FC2 108D  BAAF 38F8 99A3 0C45 F083
Jabber/XMPP: flo@chaoflow.net
IRC: chaoflow on freenode,ircnet,blafasel,OFTC

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Re: mail integration, advice?

[Myles English]

Matt,

>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:47:40 -0400, Matt Price said:
  > So, I'm wondering what solutions other org users have settled on.

I use gnus, offline imap, dovecot, notmuch, msmtp, bbdb3.  And org-mode
capture including links to emails works fine.

The end result is very good and stable through updates (I am using Arch
Linux too) but I have to say though it did take a LOT of configurating.

Everything works well now apart from wrapping, see below:

  > My current hopes for this: - allow me to continue using Thunderbird
  > as a backup for e.g. images and highly formatted mails --
  > thunderbird is currently set up w/ local copies of IMAP folders for
  > my current mail, plus local archives served on by dovecot that can
  > be accessed both by thunderbird and by e.g.  wanderlust.  - fast
  > search and easy-to-manage virtual folders of some kind -- I see mu
  > and notmuch are very strong on both these fronts - easy, stable
  > harvesting of email-based data through org-capture (if possible,
  > this should allow me to archive a message and still be able to find
  > it when I follow an org message link) - would be nice if

QED

Myles

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Charles Philip Chan]

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Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:

> - wl causes emacs to freeze up when it checks or sends mail, and can
> take quite a long while to complete these operations

I offload this by using external programs. My email flow consists of:

  1. Fetch my mail from various sources with fetchmail. Usenet articles
     are fetched via leafnode.

  2. The mail in then passed to procmail for spam proccessing with
     spamassassin, spilt into the appropriate groups with a procmailrc
     subfile generated by niko-bbdb-split.el[1], and delivered to the
     maildir directory using the "deliver" program from Dovecot.

  3. I send my mail by passing it on the my local smtp server (postfix).

  4. To easily access my mail from anywhere, I allow outside access to
     my local Dovecot server only through imaps.

> - allow me to continue using Thunderbird as a backup for e.g. images
> and highly formatted mails -- thunderbird is currently set up w/ local
> copies of IMAP folders for my current mail, plus local archives served
> on by dovecot that can be accessed both by thunderbird and by e.g.
> wanderlust.

I suggest just setting up a local imap server, such as Dovecot, for
this. As a side note, I am happy with the presentation in Gnus via
emacs-w3m integration for highly formatted mail (and of cause Emacs
supports inline images). I can also open the mime part in a web browser
From Gnus very easily.

> - fast search and easy-to-manage virtual folders of some kind -- I see
> mu and notmuch are very strong on both these fronts

Currently I just use the Squat plugin[2] in Dovecot and search via "GG"
in Gnus.

Charles

Footnotes: 
[1] http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/emacs/niko-bbdb-split.el

[2] http://wiki.dovecot.org/Plugins/FTS/Squat 

-- 
Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only
be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on.
(Unknown source)

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Re: mail integration, advice?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

On Thu, Apr 26 2012, Matt Price wrote:

> I'd like to take one more shot at returning to text-based email within
> emacs, mostly because I want to be able to integrate mail easily into
> my org-mode workflow.  The last time I tried this I used wanderlust,
> and I'd be willing to give it a try again but a couple of things have
> discouraged me in the past:
> - wl causes emacs to freeze up when it checks or sends mail, and can
> take quite a long while to complete these operations

Others have given imap solutions -- I'm using POP and the mpop utility
works great for this. I have it use `set-process-filter' and
`set-process-sentinel' to let me know what it did once it's done.

> - fast search and easy-to-manage virtual folders of some kind -- I see
> mu and notmuch are very strong on both these fronts

Again, for POP -- nnmairix is fast, but I've gotten strange behavior out
of the virtual groups it creates, and calling it from gnus is many times
slower than using it from the command line.

1.5¢


-- 
GNU Emacs 24.1.50.2 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.10)
 of 2012-04-25 on pellet

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Stephen Eglen]

A relatively new emacs mailer, mu4e, is worth mentioning:

http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html

I really like it so far + it has support for org mode links.

Stephen

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Eric Schulte]

Myles English <mylesenglish@gmail.com> writes:

> Matt,
>
>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:47:40 -0400, Matt Price said:
>   > So, I'm wondering what solutions other org users have settled on.
>
> I use gnus, offline imap, dovecot, notmuch, msmtp, bbdb3.  And org-mode
> capture including links to emails works fine.
>
> The end result is very good and stable through updates (I am using Arch
> Linux too) but I have to say though it did take a LOT of configurating.
>

As a long-time user of gnus with imap my only complaints are the
inability to work offline and the relatively poor sorting rules of my
web-mail imap servers.  It sounds like dovecot and offline-imap could
solve both of these problems.

Was the offline-imap/dovecot combo difficult to configure?

Are there perhaps online instructions to which you could direct me?
FWIW I also use Arch as my OS.

Thanks,

-- 
Eric Schulte
http://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte/

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Eric Schulte]

Myles English <mylesenglish@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Eric,
>
>>> On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:34:46 -0400, Eric Schulte said:
>
>   > Myles English <mylesenglish@gmail.com> writes:
>   >> I use gnus, offline imap, dovecot, notmuch, msmtp, bbdb3.  And
>   >> org-mode capture including links to emails works fine.
>   >>
>   >> The end result is very good and stable through updates 
>
> Having said that I did have trouble with offlineimap 6.4-ish and so i am
> still on 6.3.3-1 but 6.5.2 is out so will give that a go soon.
>
>   >> (I am using Arch Linux too) but I have to say though it did take a
>   >> LOT of configurating.
>   >>
>
>   > As a long-time user of gnus with imap my only complaints are the
>   > inability to work offline and the relatively poor sorting rules of
>   > my web-mail imap servers.  It sounds like dovecot and offline-imap
>   > could solve both of these problems.
>
>   > Was the offline-imap/dovecot combo difficult to configure?
>
> Mostly, it was not difficult, the one thing that was tricky was setting
> up dovecot to handle more than one account.  I ended up doing this:
>
> # leave as the default setting
> mail_location = maildir:/home/myles/Maildir
>
> # specify a password file
> passdb {
>   args = /etc/dovecot/passwd
>   default_fields =
>   deny = no
>   driver = passwd-file
>   master = no
>   override_fields =
>   pass = no
> }
>
> # in /etc/dovecot/passwd overide the maildir for each of my three accounts:
> mylesenglish:{plain}PASSWD_FOR_MYLES:1000:1000::/home/myles::userdb_mail=maildir:/home/myles/Maildir/mylesenglish
> rh:{plain}PASSWORD_FOR_RH:1000:1000::/home/myles::userdb_mail=maildir:/home/myles/Maildir/rh
> ed:{plain}PASSWORD_FOR_ED:1000:1000::/home/myles::userdb_mail=maildir:/home/myles/Maildir/ed
>
>   > Are there perhaps online instructions to which you could direct me?
>   > FWIW I also use Arch as my OS.
>
> I remember this was quite useful if a bit outdated, it is a bit skimpy on Dovecot though:
>
> http://roland.entierement.nu/blog/2010/09/08/gnus-dovecot-offlineimap-search-a-howto.html
>
> The command 'dovecot -a' is useful to dump your config to stout then you
> can easily tell what you have changed in between attempts.
>

Wonderful, thanks for the instructions, with any luck I'll be reading
and writing email from the train by this time next week.

>
> I imagine that because you are already /au fait/ with gnus you have
> half the battle won.  If need be I can dump my whole config but then
> where is the fun in that?
>

No need, if I don't figure out at least some of the config myself I'll
not be able to maintain it later.

Thanks!

>
> Good luck.
>
> Myles

-- 
Eric Schulte
http://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte/

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Myles English]

Hi Eric,

>> On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:34:46 -0400, Eric Schulte said:

  > Myles English <mylesenglish@gmail.com> writes:
  >> I use gnus, offline imap, dovecot, notmuch, msmtp, bbdb3.  And
  >> org-mode capture including links to emails works fine.
  >>
  >> The end result is very good and stable through updates 

Having said that I did have trouble with offlineimap 6.4-ish and so i am
still on 6.3.3-1 but 6.5.2 is out so will give that a go soon.

  >> (I am using Arch Linux too) but I have to say though it did take a
  >> LOT of configurating.
  >>

  > As a long-time user of gnus with imap my only complaints are the
  > inability to work offline and the relatively poor sorting rules of
  > my web-mail imap servers.  It sounds like dovecot and offline-imap
  > could solve both of these problems.

  > Was the offline-imap/dovecot combo difficult to configure?

Mostly, it was not difficult, the one thing that was tricky was setting
up dovecot to handle more than one account.  I ended up doing this:

# leave as the default setting
mail_location = maildir:/home/myles/Maildir

# specify a password file
passdb {
  args = /etc/dovecot/passwd
  default_fields =
  deny = no
  driver = passwd-file
  master = no
  override_fields =
  pass = no
}

# in /etc/dovecot/passwd overide the maildir for each of my three accounts:
mylesenglish:{plain}PASSWD_FOR_MYLES:1000:1000::/home/myles::userdb_mail=maildir:/home/myles/Maildir/mylesenglish
rh:{plain}PASSWORD_FOR_RH:1000:1000::/home/myles::userdb_mail=maildir:/home/myles/Maildir/rh
ed:{plain}PASSWORD_FOR_ED:1000:1000::/home/myles::userdb_mail=maildir:/home/myles/Maildir/ed

  > Are there perhaps online instructions to which you could direct me?
  > FWIW I also use Arch as my OS.

I remember this was quite useful if a bit outdated, it is a bit skimpy on Dovecot though:

http://roland.entierement.nu/blog/2010/09/08/gnus-dovecot-offlineimap-search-a-howto.html

The command 'dovecot -a' is useful to dump your config to stout then you
can easily tell what you have changed in between attempts.

I imagine that because you are already /au fait/ with gnus you have half
the battle won.  If need be I can dump my whole config but then where is
the fun in that?

Good luck.

Myles

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Eric Fraga]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I'd like to take one more shot at returning to text-based email within
>> emacs, mostly because I want to be able to integrate mail easily into
>> my org-mode workflow.  
   
> I used wl but switched to Gnus. 

ditto.
        
>
>> - wl causes emacs to freeze up when it checks or sends mail, and can
>> take quite a long while to complete these operations
>
> I know of no solution to this.  You could run a dedicated Gnus process
> if it bothers you.

This is what I do. I have two emacs instances running all times, one for
email and one for everything else.  The second one includes all org
related stuff.  As I do capture things in org from email (gnus), I do
have to make sure that I save my org files frequently.  There's no issue
in terms of getting stuff lost as org does lock any modified but not
saved files and the other emacs will prompt if you try to save something
to an org file that has not been saved in other emacs.
     
-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.1.50.1
: using Org-mode version 7.8.09 (release_7.8.09-406-g0233eb @ /home/ucecesf/git/org-mode/lisp/org-install.el)

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Eric Fraga]

Eric Schulte <eric.schulte@gmx.com> writes:

> As a long-time user of gnus with imap my only complaints are the
> inability to work offline and the relatively poor sorting rules of my
> web-mail imap servers.  It sounds like dovecot and offline-imap could
> solve both of these problems.

I used to use offline-imap + dovecot when I used wl and things worked
very well indeed.  When I moved to gnus, I used the gnus agent which
also now works very well (there was a period of instability a year or
two ago).  The gnus agent fully supports offline use (gnus-unplugged).
  
-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.1.50.1
: using Org-mode version 7.8.09 (release_7.8.09-406-g0233eb @ /home/ucecesf/git/org-mode/lisp/org-install.el)

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Eric Fraga]

Stephen Eglen <S.J.Eglen@damtp.cam.ac.uk> writes:

> A relatively new emacs mailer, mu4e, is worth mentioning:
>
> http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html

Somewhat surreal to bring up this page, look at the second screen shot
and see my name on the first line!  Not to mention the usual suspects
from the org mailing list as well ;-).
-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.1.50.1
: using Org release_7.8.09-406-g0233eb

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Rasmus]

Eric Schulte <eric.schulte@gmx.com> writes:

> Myles English <mylesenglish@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Matt,
>>
>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:47:40 -0400, Matt Price said:
>>   > So, I'm wondering what solutions other org users have settled
>>   > on.
>>
>> I use gnus, offline imap, dovecot, notmuch, msmtp, bbdb3.  And
>> org-mode
>> capture including links to emails works fine.
>>
>> The end result is very good and stable through updates (I am using
>> Arch
>> Linux too) but I have to say though it did take a LOT of
>> configurating.
>>
>
> As a long-time user of gnus with imap my only complaints are the
> inability to work offline and the relatively poor sorting rules of my
> web-mail imap servers.  It sounds like dovecot and offline-imap could
> solve both of these problems.
>
> Was the offline-imap/dovecot combo difficult to configure?

No.

> Are there perhaps online instructions to which you could direct me?


> FWIW I also use Arch as my OS.

bash> sudo pacman -S dovecot

in your mail config: 

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
  (setq my/imap-method
        `(nnimap "mail"
                 (nnimap-stream shell)
                 (nnimap-shell-program "MAIL=maildir:$HOME/mail /usr/lib/dovecot/imap")))

  (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml ""))

  (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods my/imap-method)
#+end_src

this is setup is robust to no internet connection. 

Correct $HOME/mail to the proper mail dir.

–Rasmus

-- 
Enought with the bla bla!

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Rasmus]

Eric Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

As this is becoming somewhat of a dovecot thread I've got a question:

Often, after resuming the computer from standby, say, Gnus looses the
connection to Dovecot.  I have to press `g' three times it updates mail
group and each time I must wait for it to time out. 

Has anyone found a solution to this bothersome issue?

Thanks,
Rasmus

-- 
Hooray!

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Eric Fraga]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Eric Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>
> As this is becoming somewhat of a dovecot thread I've got a question:
>
> Often, after resuming the computer from standby, say, Gnus looses the
> connection to Dovecot.  I have to press `g' three times it updates mail
> group and each time I must wait for it to time out. 
>
> Has anyone found a solution to this bothersome issue?
>
> Thanks,
> Rasmus

  Not sure but you could try going to the server list (^ from the Group
  buffer) and then hit O on the server you want to connect to?

  Alternatively, you might try (from the Group buffer) telling gnus to
  unplug (J j) and then plug back in (J j).

  I cannot verify that either of these will work as the problem might be
  with dovecot.  You could try asking on the gnus mailing list?
  
  HTH,
  eric

  PS - by the way, my lines are all indented because between yesterday
  and today, something has changed in either gnus or org!  Paragraph
  filling is working nicely in one sense but everything is indented more
  than I would like.  Haven't explored the cause yet...
  
-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.1.50.1
: using Org release_7.8.09-414-gb3e8a8

Re: mail integration, advice?

[RC]

Eric Fraga <e.fraga <at> ucl.ac.uk> writes:
> 
> I used to use offline-imap + dovecot when I used wl and things worked
> very well indeed.  When I moved to gnus, I used the gnus agent which
> also now works very well (there was a period of instability a year or
> two ago).  The gnus agent fully supports offline use (gnus-unplugged).
> 


Hi,
 Would you mind sharing how you have the new version of gnus set up for email
and integration with org. Most of what I could find online seems to be based on
earlier versions of gnus, and I found it difficult to extract the information I
needed from the comprehensive gnus manual.
Thanks,
RC

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Richard Riley]

RC <recif@yahoo.com> writes:

> Eric Fraga <e.fraga <at> ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>> 
>> I used to use offline-imap + dovecot when I used wl and things worked
>> very well indeed.  When I moved to gnus, I used the gnus agent which
>> also now works very well (there was a period of instability a year or
>> two ago).  The gnus agent fully supports offline use (gnus-unplugged).
>> 
>
> Hi,
>  Would you mind sharing how you have the new version of gnus set up for email
> and integration with org. Most of what I could find online seems to be based on
> earlier versions of gnus, and I found it difficult to extract the information I
> needed from the comprehensive gnus manual.
> Thanks,
> RC

What kind of integration are you looking for?

The main things you would probably want is simple and is documented under org
links:-

http://orgmode.org/manual/Handling-links.html

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Dirk-Jan C. Binnema]

Stephen Eglen <S.J.Eglen@damtp.cam.ac.uk> writes:

> A relatively new emacs mailer, mu4e, is worth mentioning:
>
> http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html
>
> I really like it so far + it has support for org mode links.

Thanks :)

If you're interested, in the guile/examples directory, there's a guile
script 'org2mu4e' that turns an arbitrary query into an org-mode file.

I.e., I am using this (from cron)

  org2mu4e --tag=mu4e "maildir:/todo" > /home/djcb/Documents/org/mu4e.org

where '/todo' is my folder of mails I need to do something with (think
'NextAction' in GTD terms).
  
I use it to make a block agenda (i.e., `org-agenda-custom-commands');
this gives me a list of my agenda for today, my todo list, e-mail that
require some action, and a list of co

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ("x" "Overview for today"
       ( (agenda ""
	  ((org-agenda-ndays 1)))
	 (todo "TODO"
	   ((org-agenda-overriding-header "Tasks")
	     (org-agenda-todo-ignore-timestamp 1)
	     (org-agenda-todo-ignore-scheduled t)))
	 (tags "+mu4e"
	   ((org-agenda-overriding-header "E-mail")
             ;; ---> this is the mu/guile generated org-file                             
	     (org-agenda-files '("/home/djcb/Documents/org/mu4e.org"))
	     (org-agenda-filter-preset nil)))))
---------------------------------------------------------------------------       

which gives me something like the below, a nice overview of the things
to work on. The e-mail entries links to the actual messages in mu4e.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day-agenda (W17):
Saturday   28 April 2012
  misc:       Sched.13x:  APPT Get haircut
  weekly:     Sched. 1x:  TODO Weekly Review [Link]
  birthday:   Kurt Gödel (106 years ago)

===========================================================================
Tasks
  task:       TODO [#A] Fix bicycle                                      
  task:       TODO [#B] get rid of old monitor                           
  task:       TODO [#C] visit dentist                                    

===========================================================================
E-mail
  mu4e:       "Can you endorse me?"                                :mu4e::
  mu4e:       "Re: hi Dirk!"                                       :mu4e::
  mu4e:       "Hi!"                                                :mu4e::

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Best wishes,
Dirk.

-- 
Dirk-Jan C. Binnema                  Helsinki, Finland
e:djcb@djcbsoftware.nl           w:www.djcbsoftware.nl
pgp: D09C E664 897D 7D39 5047 A178 E96A C7A1 017D DA3C

Re: [OT] mail integration, advice?

[Eric Schulte]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Eric Schulte <eric.schulte@gmx.com> writes:
>
>> Myles English <mylesenglish@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Matt,
>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:47:40 -0400, Matt Price said:
>>>   > So, I'm wondering what solutions other org users have settled
>>>   > on.
>>>
>>> I use gnus, offline imap, dovecot, notmuch, msmtp, bbdb3.  And
>>> org-mode
>>> capture including links to emails works fine.
>>>
>>> The end result is very good and stable through updates (I am using
>>> Arch
>>> Linux too) but I have to say though it did take a LOT of
>>> configurating.
>>>
>>
>> As a long-time user of gnus with imap my only complaints are the
>> inability to work offline and the relatively poor sorting rules of my
>> web-mail imap servers.  It sounds like dovecot and offline-imap could
>> solve both of these problems.
>>
>> Was the offline-imap/dovecot combo difficult to configure?
>
> No.
>

Thanks to you and Myles for your respective advice on this setup.  I'm
now using offlineimap+dovecot to read almost [1] all of my email.  I'll
share my config in case anyone else is interested in trying out this
combination of tools.

I'm using the following very basic dovecot config [2], with the
following offlineimap config [3], and gnus config [4].  This was all
very easy to setup.

Now my email system should be complete.  At least until I decide I need
to switch from using free webmail servers to running my own remote IMAP
server.

Thanks,

Footnotes: 
[1]  Due to a weird issue on my school's imap server I must issue the
     LIST command as 'LIST "mail" "*"' instead of 'LIST "" "*"'.  I
     haven't yet figured out how to port this workaround to offlineimap.

[2]  $ dovecot -n
# 2.1.5: /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf
# OS: Linux 3.3.3-1-ARCH x86_64  ext4
mail_location = maildir:/home/eschulte/mail
namespace inbox {
  inbox = yes
  location = 
  mailbox Drafts {
    special_use = \Drafts
  }
  mailbox Junk {
    special_use = \Junk
  }
  mailbox Sent {
    special_use = \Sent
  }
  mailbox "Sent Messages" {
    special_use = \Sent
  }
  mailbox Trash {
    special_use = \Trash
  }
  prefix = 
}
passdb {
  args = /etc/dovecot/passwd
  driver = passwd-file
}
ssl = no

[3]  $ cat .offlineimaprc
[general]
accounts = gmx
maxsyncaccounts = 1

[Account gmx]
localrepository = gmx-local
remoterepository = gmx-remote

[Repository gmx-local]
type = IMAP
remotehost = localhost
remoteport = 143
remoteuser = eschulte
preauthtunnel = MAIL=maildir:$HOME/mail/me /usr/lib/dovecot/imap
holdconnectionopen = yes

[Repository gmx-remote]
type = IMAP
remotehost = imap.gmx.com
remoteuser = my-email-address
remotepass = my-password
remoteport = 993
ssl = yes

[4]  
#+begin_src emacs-lisp
  (setq
   gnus-select-method
   '(nnimap "gmx"
            (nnimap-stream shell)
            (nnimap-shell-program
             "MAIL=maildir:$HOME/mail/me /usr/lib/dovecot/imap")))
#+end_src

-- 
Eric Schulte
http://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte/

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Myles English]

Hi Rasmus,

>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:28:00 +0100, Rasmus  said:

  > Eric Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
  >> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

  > As this is becoming somewhat of a dovecot thread I've got a
  > question:

  > Often, after resuming the computer from standby, say, Gnus looses
  > the connection to Dovecot.  I have to press `g' three times it
  > updates mail group and each time I must wait for it to time out.

  > Has anyone found a solution to this bothersome issue?

This doesn't happen to me but I notice that my config is slightly different:

;; tell gnus not to fetch mail
(setq mail-sources nil)

;; we are only using email
(setq gnus-nntp-server nil
      gnus-read-active-file nil
      gnus-save-newsrc-file nil
      gnus-read-newsrc-file nil
      gnus-check-new-newsgroups nil)

;; fetching email
(setq gnus-select-method
      '(nnimap "mainMail"
	       (nnimap-address "localhost")
	       (nnimap-stream network)
	       (nnimap-authinfo-file "/home/myles/.authinfoMainMail")
	       (nnimap-authenticator login)
	       (imap-shell-program "MAIL=maildir:/home/myles/Maildir/otherMail /usr/lib/dovecot/imap")))

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
      '((nnimap "otherMail"
		(nnimap-address "localhost")
		(nnimap-stream network)
		(nnimap-authinfo-file "/home/myles/.authinfoOtherMail")
		(nnimap-authenticator login)
		(imap-shell-program "MAIL=maildir:/home/myles/Maildir/otherMail /usr/lib/dovecot/imap"))

  > Thanks, Rasmus

  > -- Hooray!

Myles

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Neil Smithline]

On 4/27 08:09 , Stephen Eglen wrote:
> A relatively new emacs mailer, mu4e, is worth mentioning:
>
> http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html
>
> I really like it so far + it has support for org mode links.

Stephen,

I didn't know about mu4e. I've played around with mu in the past and 
thought it was very cool but couldn't really work it into my daily 
workflow. mu4e seems to handle that.

Are the directions at 
http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e/Gmail-configuration.html really 
all it takes to get this running? If so, I'm definitely going to give it 
a whirl.

Neil Smithline
http://www.neilsmithline.com
Proud GNU Emacs user since 1986, v. 18.24.

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Neil Smithline]

On 4/26 12:28, Rasmus wrote:
 > Arch updates wl often.  Latest package is three months old.
 >
 > https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/any/wanderlust/

Rasmus,

I don't think that Arch is really updating WL. I took a look at most of 
the commits at http://bit.ly/JQkshB and think they are only bumping the 
Arch version number and packaging. I didn't see any changes to the elisp.

To the best of my knowledge, most if not all maintenance on WL ended 
several years ago. I decided to avoid WL because of this and the similar 
lack of maintenance on FLIM and APEL.

Neil Smithline
http://www.neilsmithline.com
Proud GNU Emacs user since 1986, v. 18.24.


On 4/26 12:28 , Rasmus wrote:
> Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I'd like to take one more shot at returning to text-based email within
>> emacs, mostly because I want to be able to integrate mail easily into
>> my org-mode workflow.
>
> It's worth it.
>
>> The last time I tried this I used wanderlust,
>> and I'd be willing to give it a try again but a couple of things have
>> discouraged me in the past:
>
> I used wl but switched to Gnus.
>
>> - wl causes emacs to freeze up when it checks or sends mail, and can
>> take quite a long while to complete these operations
>
> I know of no solution to this.  You could run a dedicated Gnus process
> if it bothers you.
>
>> - wl seems to have gone quasi-dormant, with very little activity on
>> the mailing list and no recent releases; it also relies on two other
>> packages, FLIM and APEL, with similarly dormant mailing lists
>
> Arch updates wl often.  Latest package is three months old.
>
> https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/any/wanderlust/
>
>> - allow me to continue using Thunderbird as a backup for e.g. images
>> and highly formatted mails -- thunderbird is currently set up w/ local
>> copies of IMAP folders for my current mail, plus local archives served
>> on by dovecot that can be accessed both by thunderbird and by e.g.
>> wanderlust.
>
> Message-mode handles txt mails well.  There is some org extension for
> html mails (although I don't like html mails).
>
> IMAP should be fine.  You can run it local if you want.  I do
> offlineimap + dovecot.
>
>> - fast search and easy-to-manage virtual folders of some kind -- I see
>> mu and notmuch are very strong on both these fronts
>
> notmuch and mu4emacs are probably also easier to set up.
>
>> - easy, stable harvesting of email-based data through org-capture
>
> Use bbdb3.
>
>>   (if possible, this should allow me to archive a message and still be
>> able to find it when I follow an org message link)
>
> You can capture gnus mails through org-capture.  I don't know how robust
> the links are.
>
>> - would be nice if configuration didn't require TONS of lisp code, a I
>> am a very slow coder and these kinds of configuration tasks can be
>> very daunting for me.
>
> I have tons of list configuration for Gnus. . .  But half of it is for
> weird stuff such as random signature, random `avatar', several SMTP etc.
>
>> - shouldn't slow down my workflow too much -- I should be able to very
>> quickly check my email then return to an org buffer to continue
>> writing.
>
> I have F9 bring up the Gnus Group buffer.  G for update.  Elegant
> auto-fetching of new mails from foreign imap is something I have not
> solved yet.
>

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Stephen Eglen]

hi Neil
> Are the directions at 
> http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e/Gmail-configuration.html really 
> all it takes to get this running? If so, I'm definitely going to give it 
> a whirl.

yes, check out that subsection for Gmail, or the earlier part of the
manual for other configs.   If you previously got mu working, and your
email is under ~/Maildir you should find that something like:

  (add-to-list 'load-path "/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/mu4e/")
  (autoload 'mu4e "mu4e" "Start mu4e" t)

is all you need.

Give it a go.  If you liked mu, I think you'll like mu4e; Dirk's doing a
great job!

Stephen

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Bastien]

Guys,

very nice thread -- I can't wait to have a new computer (mine is a
Thinkpad X61... nearly 5 years old!) and play with all this.

Also nice to have Dirk on this list!  Keep up the good work and let
us know about other org/mu[4e] niceties.

Cheers,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Mikkel Kristiansen]

On søn 29 apr 2012 02:45:54 CEST, Neil Smithline wrote:

> On 4/27 08:09 , Stephen Eglen wrote:
> > A relatively new emacs mailer, mu4e, is worth mentioning:
> >
> > http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html
> >
> > I really like it so far + it has support for org mode links.
> 
> Stephen,
> 
> I didn't know about mu4e. I've played around with mu in the past and 
> thought it was very cool but couldn't really work it into my daily 
> workflow. mu4e seems to handle that.
> 
> Are the directions at 
> http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e/Gmail-configuration.html really 
> all it takes to get this running? If so, I'm definitely going to give it 
> a whirl.
> 
> Neil Smithline
> http://www.neilsmithline.com
> Proud GNU Emacs user since 1986, v. 18.24.
> 
> 

I have been through WL, gnus, mutt and I haven't really been satisfied
with any of them. But then I tried mu4e, and I really like it. What I
particularly like is the search function, the interface as well as the
org-mode integration, and it's pretty easy to set up!  

Mikkel Kristiansen 

Re: mail integration, advice?

[Richard Riley]

Neil Smithline <emacs-orgmode@neilsmithline.com> writes:

> On 4/27 08:09 , Stephen Eglen wrote:
>> A relatively new emacs mailer, mu4e, is worth mentioning:
>>
>> http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html
>>
>> I really like it so far + it has support for org mode links.
>
> Stephen,
>
> I didn't know about mu4e. I've played around with mu in the past and thought it
> was very cool but couldn't really work it into my daily workflow. mu4e seems to
> handle that.
>
> Are the directions at
> http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e/Gmail-configuration.html really all it
> takes to get this running? If so, I'm definitely going to give it a
> whirl.

That looks incredibly complicated compared to gnus which supports really
fast and good direct imap connections. Offlineimap and then serving up
as maildir can get really messy if you have more than one gmail
account. Obviously if you want a local email cache offline imap is great
combined with something like a local dovecot - I had this setup for a
while until I started to consider the possible ramifications of losing
my laptop and my entire lifes emails being present on that hard drive ;)
The other issue being the plainttext storage of your gmail password
although I believe there must be some way of obfuscating that. Gnus and
its use of .gpg auth files is pretty reassuring.

>
> Neil Smithline
> http://www.neilsmithline.com
> Proud GNU Emacs user since 1986, v. 18.24.
>
>
>
>

-- 
Sent using Emacs/Gnus from home ...