* Re: [FR] Enhancing footnote managment (via indirect buffer)?
@ 2023-05-23 10:59 Payas Relekar
2023-05-24 9:03 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Payas Relekar @ 2023-05-23 10:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrea Lazzarini; +Cc: Ihor Radchenko, emacs-orgmode
Andrea Lazzarini <andrea.lazzarini1@gmail.com> writes:
> I've fiddled with org-edit-special and I see it has a major flaw, at least in my opinion.
> It inserts all changes without keeping track of the undos, as opposed to the indirect
> buffer solution, which also had the advantage of doing everything from a single buffer:
> it operates as some sort of 'window' on a part of the file, rather than feeling as some
> sort of out-of-the-normal operation. Aren't there other possibile use cases for indirect
> buffers in org mode? Why are they considered inferior to other solutions? I ask just
> for my understanding.
>
> (A combination of eldoc + org-edit-special might be rather affecting on the
> seamlessness of the workflow, but this is of course my simple personal opinion).
I've been playing with org-footnote-assistance, and this is again just
another opinion, but I'm also preferring the indirect buffer. It just
puts things in better perspective.
--
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [FR] Enhancing footnote managment (via indirect buffer)?
2023-05-23 10:59 [FR] Enhancing footnote managment (via indirect buffer)? Payas Relekar
@ 2023-05-24 9:03 ` Ihor Radchenko
[not found] ` <990C578F-176B-4166-868C-0BC59759CC19@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2023-05-24 9:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Payas Relekar; +Cc: Andrea Lazzarini, emacs-orgmode
Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com> writes:
> I've been playing with org-footnote-assistance, and this is again just
> another opinion, but I'm also preferring the indirect buffer. It just
> puts things in better perspective.
I'd prefer to integrate things with `org-edit-special', if possible.
Possibly extending `org-edit-special' functionality.
The pros for `org-edit-special' are that we can escape certain edge
cases. In particular, there is a known edge case when footnote
definition contains an src block with 2+ blank lines. The blank lines
are treated as the end of the footnote definition and src block is not
recognized. Also, `org-edit-footnote-reference' takes care about
removing common indentation.
--
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* [FR] Enhancing footnote managment (via indirect buffer)?
@ 2023-05-22 9:30 Andrea Lazzarini
2023-05-22 11:45 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Andrea Lazzarini @ 2023-05-22 9:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
I am writing to you because I have recently published a simple package called
org-footnote-assistant [https://github.com/lazzalazza/org-footnote-assistant],
which aims at improving the overall functionality and user experience of footnotes
within Org Mode.
The current management of footnotes has certain limitations that can sometimes
hinder the overall user experience. One major limitation is the limited inline
viewing of footnotes, which makes it challenging to review and modify footnote
content precisely and without disrupting the workflow.
Org-footnote-assistant addresses the limitations of inline viewing of footnotes
by using an indirect buffer.The package also provides commands for easy
navigation between footnote references, enabling quick jumps to the next or
previous reference.
On Reddit I have been encouraged to seek your feedback and explore the
possibility of integrating some of these features upstream to prevent bitrot and
ensure wider accessibility, and I am of course open to any suggestion or input.
Best,
Andrea Lazzarini
GitHub: lazzalazza
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [FR] Enhancing footnote managment (via indirect buffer)?
2023-05-22 9:30 Andrea Lazzarini
@ 2023-05-22 11:45 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-05-22 13:58 ` Andrea Lazzarini
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2023-05-22 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrea Lazzarini; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Andrea Lazzarini <andrea.lazzarini1@gmail.com> writes:
> I am writing to you because I have recently published a simple package called
> org-footnote-assistant [https://github.com/lazzalazza/org-footnote-assistant],
> which aims at improving the overall functionality and user experience of footnotes
> within Org Mode.
Thanks for your interest to contribute to Org mode!
> The current management of footnotes has certain limitations that can sometimes
> hinder the overall user experience. One major limitation is the limited inline
> viewing of footnotes, which makes it challenging to review and modify footnote
> content precisely and without disrupting the workflow.
>
> Org-footnote-assistant addresses the limitations of inline viewing of footnotes
> by using an indirect buffer.
I am not sure if indirect buffer is the right approach for _previews_.
It is more common in Emacs to either use eldoc or tooltips.
You may use
https://www.masteringemacs.org/article/seamlessly-merge-multiple-documentation-sources-eldoc
as reference about eldoc.
> The package also provides commands for easy
> navigation between footnote references, enabling quick jumps to the next or
> previous reference.
This sounds like something we can extend `org-forward-element' and
`org-backward-element' with - it may not only jump to the next element,
but also jump to the next element of the same type. Jumping to next/previous
footnote might will useful as a separate command as well though, as a
complement to the existing `org-next-item', `org-next-link',
`org-next-block', etc.
"Footnote Editing Window" sounds like a duplicate of the existing C-c '
functionality (`org-edit-special').
"Customized Footnote Definition Jumping" does not sound too different
from editing window. May you elaborate why it is useful?
I am not sure if I understand what "Enhanced Footnote Reference
Searching" does from its description.
"Eeasier Footnote Deletion": How is it different from `org-footnote-delete'?
--
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [FR] Enhancing footnote managment (via indirect buffer)?
2023-05-22 11:45 ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2023-05-22 13:58 ` Andrea Lazzarini
2023-05-22 15:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Andrea Lazzarini @ 2023-05-22 13:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: yantar92; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
> Il giorno 22 mag 2023, alle ore 13:45, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> ha scritto:
>
> Andrea Lazzarini <andrea.lazzarini1@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I am writing to you because I have recently published a simple package called
>> org-footnote-assistant [https://github.com/lazzalazza/org-footnote-assistant],
>> which aims at improving the overall functionality and user experience of footnotes
>> within Org Mode.
>
> Thanks for your interest to contribute to Org mode!
Thank you for your kind reply, for the consideration and the great tips!
>
>> The current management of footnotes has certain limitations that can sometimes
>> hinder the overall user experience. One major limitation is the limited inline
>> viewing of footnotes, which makes it challenging to review and modify footnote
>> content precisely and without disrupting the workflow.
>>
>> Org-footnote-assistant addresses the limitations of inline viewing of footnotes
>> by using an indirect buffer.
>
> I am not sure if indirect buffer is the right approach for _previews_.
> It is more common in Emacs to either use eldoc or tooltips.
> You may use
> https://www.masteringemacs.org/article/seamlessly-merge-multiple-documentation-sources-eldoc
> as reference about eldoc.
>
Eldoc (or tooltips) could be great for previewing: I'm going to give them a try
and to see how they might be integrated in an academic writing workflow.
I wander if they would maintain buffer-specific highlighting though...
>> The package also provides commands for easy
>> navigation between footnote references, enabling quick jumps to the next or
>> previous reference.
>
> This sounds like something we can extend `org-forward-element' and
> `org-backward-element' with - it may not only jump to the next element,
> but also jump to the next element of the same type. Jumping to next/previous
> footnote might will useful as a separate command as well though, as a
> complement to the existing `org-next-item', `org-next-link',
> `org-next-block', etc.
>
Yes, this actually sounds great, and would make it really easier to implement
focused jumping.
> "Footnote Editing Window" sounds like a duplicate of the existing C-c '
> functionality (`org-edit-special').
>
Yep! It is, and that's also very good to know: I am sorry but this totally flew
over my head in these years of using org...
> "Customized Footnote Definition Jumping" does not sound too different
> from editing window. May you elaborate why it is useful?
>
> I am not sure if I understand what "Enhanced Footnote Reference
> Searching" does from its description.
>
> "Eeasier Footnote Deletion": How is it different from `org-footnote-delete'?
>
That was nothing more than a simple wrapper for org-footnote-delete, which
is not an interactive function: btw, I am curious to know if there is a reason for
that. Why should users re-implement org-footnote-delete with wrappers if
they want to use it interactively?
Many thanks!
Andrea Lazzarini
> --
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
> Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
> or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [FR] Enhancing footnote managment (via indirect buffer)?
2023-05-22 13:58 ` Andrea Lazzarini
@ 2023-05-22 15:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-05-23 9:38 ` Andrea Lazzarini
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2023-05-22 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrea Lazzarini; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Andrea Lazzarini <andrea.lazzarini1@gmail.com> writes:
> Eldoc (or tooltips) could be great for previewing: I'm going to give them a try
> and to see how they might be integrated in an academic writing workflow.
> I wander if they would maintain buffer-specific highlighting though...
AFAIK, Eldoc expects a function that will return the string to be
displayed. You can use `font-lock-ensure' to fontify the footnote
definition you need to display. Then, the copied string will hold the
fontification as it would be in Org mode buffer.
>> "Eeasier Footnote Deletion": How is it different from `org-footnote-delete'?
>>
>
> That was nothing more than a simple wrapper for org-footnote-delete, which
> is not an interactive function: btw, I am curious to know if there is a reason for
> that. Why should users re-implement org-footnote-delete with wrappers if
> they want to use it interactively?
I see nothing in git history and mailing list.
I think that it makes sense to convert org-footnote-delete into
interactive function.
--
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [FR] Enhancing footnote managment (via indirect buffer)?
2023-05-22 15:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2023-05-23 9:38 ` Andrea Lazzarini
2023-05-24 10:00 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Andrea Lazzarini @ 2023-05-23 9:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
> Il giorno 22 mag 2023, alle ore 17:30, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> ha scritto:
>
> Andrea Lazzarini <andrea.lazzarini1@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Eldoc (or tooltips) could be great for previewing: I'm going to give them a try
>> and to see how they might be integrated in an academic writing workflow.
>> I wander if they would maintain buffer-specific highlighting though...
>
> AFAIK, Eldoc expects a function that will return the string to be
> displayed. You can use `font-lock-ensure' to fontify the footnote
> definition you need to display. Then, the copied string will hold the
> fontification as it would be in Org mode buffer.
>
Ok, very good. This is my first attempt at it and, apparently, it works.
(setq eldoc-echo-area-use-multiline-p nil)
(defun org-footnote-eldoc-function (callback &rest _ignored)
"Return the definition of the footnote at point for Eldoc."
(when (org-footnote-at-reference-p)
(let* ((footnote-label (car (org-footnote-at-reference-p)))
(footnote-definition (org-footnote-get-definition footnote-label))
(start-def (nth 1 footnote-definition))
(end-def (nth 2 footnote-definition)))
(when footnote-definition
(font-lock-ensure start-def end-def)
(format "%s" (buffer-substring start-def end-def))))))
(defun org-footnote-enable-eldoc ()
"Enable Eldoc support for Org Mode footnotes."
(add-hook 'eldoc-documentation-functions #'org-footnote-eldoc-function nil t))
(add-hook 'org-mode-hook #'org-footnote-enable-eldoc)
I now wonder if there is a way to prevent changing eldoc-echo-area-use-multiline-p
to nil globally to prevent footnotes from appearing there and not only in the
eldoc-doc-buffer.
Provided this might be considered useful, where could such a feature be
implemented? I checked org-eldoc.el, but it looks like it aims at
providing programming documentation inside org-mode rather than
implementing specific org-oriented features.
>>> "Eeasier Footnote Deletion": How is it different from `org-footnote-delete'?
>>>
>> That was nothing more than a simple wrapper for org-footnote-delete, which
>> is not an interactive function: btw, I am curious to know if there is a reason for
>> that. Why should users re-implement org-footnote-delete with wrappers if
>> they want to use it interactively?
>
> I see nothing in git history and mailing list.
> I think that it makes sense to convert org-footnote-delete into
> interactive function.
That would be great.
I've fiddled with org-edit-special and I see it has a major flaw, at least in my opinion.
It inserts all changes without keeping track of the undos, as opposed to the indirect
buffer solution, which also had the advantage of doing everything from a single buffer:
it operates as some sort of 'window' on a part of the file, rather than feeling as some
sort of out-of-the-normal operation. Aren't there other possibile use cases for indirect
buffers in org mode? Why are they considered inferior to other solutions? I ask just
for my understanding.
(A combination of eldoc + org-edit-special might be rather affecting on the
seamlessness of the workflow, but this is of course my simple personal opinion).
> Il giorno 22 mag 2023, alle ore 13:45, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> ha scritto:
>
> This sounds like something we can extend `org-forward-element' and
> `org-backward-element' with - it may not only jump to the next element,
> but also jump to the next element of the same type. Jumping to next/previous
> footnote might will useful as a separate command as well though, as a
> complement to the existing `org-next-item', `org-next-link',
> `org-next-block', etc.
Functions that make navigation between similar elements easier would simply be great.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread* Re: [FR] Enhancing footnote managment (via indirect buffer)?
2023-05-23 9:38 ` Andrea Lazzarini
@ 2023-05-24 10:00 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2023-05-24 10:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrea Lazzarini; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Andrea Lazzarini <andrea.lazzarini1@gmail.com> writes:
> I now wonder if there is a way to prevent changing eldoc-echo-area-use-multiline-p
> to nil globally to prevent footnotes from appearing there and not only in the
> eldoc-doc-buffer.
See the docstring for `eldoc-documentation-functions' - you can call the
CALLBACK directly, telling what to show in the echo area (:echo).
> Provided this might be considered useful, where could such a feature be
> implemented? I checked org-eldoc.el, but it looks like it aims at
> providing programming documentation inside org-mode rather than
> implementing specific org-oriented features.
Note that org-eldoc is not a part of Org - it is a third-party package
from org-contrib.
The right place to configure eldoc is org-mode definition in org.el - we
setup a number of major-mode specific settings. Configuring eldoc can be
considered a part of org-mode major mode setup.
--
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-12-09 11:18 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-05-23 10:59 [FR] Enhancing footnote managment (via indirect buffer)? Payas Relekar
2023-05-24 9:03 ` Ihor Radchenko
[not found] ` <990C578F-176B-4166-868C-0BC59759CC19@gmail.com>
2023-05-26 9:08 ` Fwd: " Andrea Lazzarini
[not found] ` <877cria8f9.fsf@localhost>
2023-07-03 15:32 ` Andrea Lazzarini
2023-07-03 16:19 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-02 10:09 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-12-09 11:20 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-05-26 9:13 ` Ihor Radchenko
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-05-22 9:30 Andrea Lazzarini
2023-05-22 11:45 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-05-22 13:58 ` Andrea Lazzarini
2023-05-22 15:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-05-23 9:38 ` Andrea Lazzarini
2023-05-24 10:00 ` Ihor Radchenko
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).