GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Georg C. F. Greve]

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Hi all,

I've now been using Org mode for a couple of months and am quite happy
with it in most ways, with conversion of incoming emails into NEXT
actions being the main bottleneck.

In my setup, I have two calendar files, one shared with FSFE through
SVN, one personal, which Org mode combines into my agenda. This works
very well.

Since I also work on various projects simultaneously, I have a couple of
agenda files in which I keep track of my projects and next actions.

Much of my work is obviously determined by email, so conversion of
incoming mail to next actions is very important. Based on

 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/1771

I'm using a simple function (see below) to put them all into an "Email"
agenda file as second level entries under "* Emails". This is obviously
ineffective, as I later have to sort those items into the other agenda
files and assign them to the right projects.

So what I *want* to be able to do is to create items with interactive
choice about:

 * Agenda file

 * Project to file under, with possibility of NONE (first level) -- or --
                          NEW (create new first level project, add this
                          email as NEXT action on second level)

 * An optional note/instruction. If supplied, the NEXT action should
   look as follows:

     NEXT <NOTE>
     <EMAIL>

   If not supplied, it should like like

    NEXT <EMAIL>

All of which would essentially be browsing a tree composed of agenda
files, projects, and sub-projects.

Since I know that various other people are using Org mode for GTD kind
of methodologies, as also discussed in

 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/523

I wonder whether anyone solved this issue already.

All help and input appreciated.

Regards,
Georg



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Georg C. F. Greve                                 <greve@fsfeurope.org>
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Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[John Wiegley]

"Georg C. F. Greve" <greve@fsfeurope.org> writes:

> So what I *want* to be able to do is to create items with interactive
> choice about:
>
>  * Agenda file
>
>  * Project to file under, with possibility of NONE (first level) -- or --
>                           NEW (create new first level project, add this
>                           email as NEXT action on second level)
>
>  * An optional note/instruction. If supplied, the NEXT action should
>    look as follows:
>
>      NEXT <NOTE>
>      <EMAIL>
>
>    If not supplied, it should like like
>
>     NEXT <EMAIL>

This is almost exactly what the Remember support provides for you, if you have
prompting turned on.  It will even add the link back to the original e-mail.

John

Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Adam Spiers]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2007 at 10:44:44PM +0200, Georg C. F. Greve wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've now been using Org mode for a couple of months and am quite happy
> with it in most ways, with conversion of incoming emails into NEXT
> actions being the main bottleneck.

[snipped]

> Since I know that various other people are using Org mode for GTD kind
> of methodologies, as also discussed in
> 
>  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/523
> 
> I wonder whether anyone solved this issue already.

Yes, I used to have this very same bottleneck.  It's not perfect yet,
but a lot better than it used to be.

I posted details in a previous thread on this list about how I use a
combination of mutt, mairix, shell wrappers, and elisp to extract a
mairix:$message_id style hyperlink from the currently viewed mail
within mutt, and then yank it into my TODO.org emacs buffer, manually
creating structure around it (I almost certainly need to use
remember.el to streamline things further).  Here's an example:

  * PROJECT [#B] submit newer expenses		:@internet:admin:
  ** NEXT submit to iExpense			:sub60:
  *** don't forget [0/3]
     - [ ] HP ProCurve switch
     - [ ] linuxconf.eu
     - [ ] Travelodge Birmingham Maypole
           e-receipt
           <mairix://m:E1IPzAG-0005X8-Gg@mail4.travelodge.co.uk>
  ** NEXT read mail from Donna about where to send :sub10:
     <mairix://m:46A5C30F.D165.00CF.0@novell.com>

You can see two hyperlinks in there (yes, I still need to tweak my
code to take advantage of the functionality recently added in newer
versions of org.el) - with a quick keystroke I can pop up an xterm
with mutt viewing the relevant mails.  They're referenced by message
ID, so I can archive them in any folder, and mairix will still
retrieve them instantly.

There's a more general point worth making about the indexed search
capability which mairix gives me: I no longer need to archive by topic
because I can always retrieve instantly via a search.  Thus these days
I archive by date into monthly buckets, and mutt lets me do that with
two keystrokes, e.g.

  # Hairy mutt configuration to automatically archive into monthly
  # buckets based on date in mail header.  The trickery with the 15th
  # of the month is necessary because date -d 'last month' doesn't
  # work at the end of long months - see date(1) info pages.
  fcc-save-hook ~r\ `date +'1/%m/%Y-31/%m/%Y' -d "$(date +%Y-%m-15) -2 months"` =archive/`date +'%Y-%m' -d "$(date +%Y-%m-15) -2 months"`
  fcc-save-hook ~r\ `date +'1/%m/%Y-31/%m/%Y' -d "$(date +%Y-%m-15) -1 month "` =archive/`date +'%Y-%m' -d "$(date +%Y-%m-15) -1 month"`
  fcc-save-hook ~r\ `date +'1/%m/%Y-31/%m/%Y' ` =archive/`date +'%Y-%m'`

This is a triple win:

  - Often archiving by topic didn't make sense anyway because many
    mails cover multiple topics.

  - Archiving by topic substantially increased the mental overhead in
    processing a single mail, thereby exacerbating the bottleneck you
    refer to.

  - The mail can vanish from my inbox the moment it has been
    "processed", even if I haven't completed the resulting action.
    This retains (in theory!) the "hard edges" between unprocessed
    and processed buckets, which means I can realistically aim to have
    an empty inbox very frequently.  Ahhh, sweet relief :-)

What I personally struggle with most is regularly reviewing TODO.org -
but that's another story ...

Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Adam Spiers]

Adam Spiers (orgmode@adamspiers.org) wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2007 at 10:44:44PM +0200, Georg C. F. Greve wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I've now been using Org mode for a couple of months and am quite happy
> > with it in most ways, with conversion of incoming emails into NEXT
> > actions being the main bottleneck.

[snipped]

> > I wonder whether anyone solved this issue already.
> 
> Yes, I used to have this very same bottleneck.  It's not perfect yet,
> but a lot better than it used to be.
> 
> I posted details in a previous thread on this list about how I use a
> combination of mutt, mairix, shell wrappers, and elisp to extract a
> mairix:$message_id style hyperlink from the currently viewed mail
> within mutt, and then yank it into my TODO.org emacs buffer, manually
> creating structure around it (I almost certainly need to use
> remember.el to streamline things further).  Here's an example:
> 
>   * PROJECT [#B] submit newer expenses		:@internet:admin:
>   ** NEXT submit to iExpense			:sub60:

Sorry to reply to my own post, but I forgot to say: having shortcuts
for assigning tags (relatively new functionality in org.el) is a GREAT
help in speeding up the categorisation process.  I have this at the
end of my TODO.org:

* mode settings
:HIDE:
#+ARCHIVE: DONE.org::
#+CATEGORY: work
#+SEQ_TODO: NEXT(n) | DONE(N) | WAITING(w)
#+SEQ_TODO: PROJECT(p) | PROJDONE(P)
#+SEQ_TODO: SOMEDAY(s) MAYBE(m) | CANCELLED(c)
#+STARTUP: logdone
#+STARTUP: hidestars
#+TAGS: { @internet(i) @offline(0) @phone(p) @home(h) }
  - various GTD contexts
#+TAGS: { sub10(1) sub30(3) sub60(6) sub120(2) sub4(4) subday(d) }
  - rough estimates of max. time per task
#+TAGS: admin(a)
  - paperwork etc.
#+TAGS: org(o)
  - "sharpening the saw" - improving my self-organization process
  - can overlap with computer(c) but also non-electronic organization
#+TAGS: computer(c)
  - optimising the way I use it
  - better config
  - hacks to help workflow

[snipped work-related]

:END:
* local variables
** Local Variables: **
** org-drawers: '("PROPERTIES" "HIDE") **
** End: **

Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Georg C. F. Greve]

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On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:26:54 -0400
John Wiegley <johnw@newartisans.com> wrote: 

 jw> This is almost exactly what the Remember support provides for you,
 jw> if you have prompting turned on.  It will even add the link back to
 jw> the original e-mail.

I tried that, but it does not seem to work as described in the manual.

When trying to emulate what exists so far, I put


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into the .emacs.el. When calling remember, I get what I expect in terms
of being able to edit a note. But when trying to save an additional NEXT
action into one of the existing files, it always wants to overwrite the
file with the exact contents of the editing buffer.

Is this a known problem? Is there something I should look out for?

Regards,
Georg

-- 
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Free Software Foundation Europe	                 (http://fsfeurope.org)
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Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Bastien]

"Georg C. F. Greve" <greve@fsfeurope.org> writes:

> (setq org-directory "~/Tools/Org/")
> (setq org-default-notes-file "~/.notes")

You can also set `org-remember-default-headline'.  In your case, maybe
"Emails" is a good choice:

(setq org-remember-default-headline "Emails")

Then you have to make sure there is a headline containing "Emails" in
your `org-default-notes-file' or in the file the template is pointing
to.

> (setq org-remember-templates
>       '((?e "* NEXT %?\n  %i\n  %a" "Email" "Emails")))
                                       ^^^^^

I don't understand the first "Email" here.  The third argument should be
a filename, as specified in org-remember-templates

,----[ C-h v org-remember-templates ]
| ...                                                                     
| The third element is optional and can specify a destination file for    
| remember items created with this template. The default file is given by 
| `org-default-notes-file'.                                               
| ...                                                                     
`----

So I would suggest this configuration:

(setq org-directory "~/Tools/Org/")
(setq org-default-notes-file "~/.notes")
(setq org-remember-default-headline "Emails")
(setq remember-annotation-functions '(org-remember-annotation))
(setq remember-handler-functions '(org-remember-handler))
(add-hook 'remember-mode-hook 'org-remember-apply-template)
(setq org-remember-templates '((?e "* NEXT %?\n  %i\n  %a")))

> Is this a known problem? Is there something I should look out for?

Hope this helps.

-- 
Bastien

Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Georg C. F. Greve]

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On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:52:44 +0200
Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote: 

 b> You can also set `org-remember-default-headline'.  In your case,
 b> maybe "Emails" is a good choice:

 b> (setq org-remember-default-headline "Emails")

Yes, this seems useful.


 b> Then you have to make sure there is a headline containing "Emails"
 b> in your `org-default-notes-file' or in the file the template is
 b> pointing to.

What would happen if there were no such headline? Would it be created?

 >> (setq org-remember-templates
 >> '((?e "* NEXT %?\n  %i\n  %a" "Email" "Emails")))
 b>                                        ^^^^^

 b> I don't understand the first "Email" here.  The third argument
 b> should be a filename, as specified in org-remember-templates

Yes, it is a filename.

The file I've been using temporarily was

    "~/Tools/Org/Email"

when that did not work in the expression above, I tried to see whether I
should just put the file name, but it did not help. Sorry for not
providing that information before.


 b> So I would suggest this configuration:

I tried that.

When typing "C-c C-c" it asks for a filename to save into (instead of
saving into the default, as the menu claims) and when trying to specify
the existing file, I get

 "File `/home/greve/Tools/Org/Email' exists; overwrite? (y or n)"

which I declined as I don't want to lose that file.

If I do "C-c C-c" and give it "~/.notes" by hand (which should not have
been necessary in the first place) I get the following result for
.notes, regardless of its previous state:

[-- Attachment #1.1.2: .notes --]
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## Filing location: Select interactively, default, or last used:
##     C-u C-c C-c  to select file and header location interactively.
##         C-c C-c  "~/.notes" -> "* "
## C-u C-u C-c C-c  "???" -> "* ???"
## To switch templates, use `M-x org-remember'.

* NEXT This is a test for an email
  [[mairix:m:20070924225226.GA9383@atlantic.linksys.moosehall][Email from Adam Spiers: Re: Orgmode GTD: Solving the]]

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So it seems that remember/org is malfunctioning somehow.

All help appreciated.

Regards,
Georg

-- 
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Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Bastien]

"Georg C. F. Greve" <greve@fsfeurope.org> writes:

>  b> Then you have to make sure there is a headline containing "Emails"
>  b> in your `org-default-notes-file' or in the file the template is
>  b> pointing to.
>
> What would happen if there were no such headline? Would it be created?

AFAIK no, the entry will just be appended to the file.

>  b> I don't understand the first "Email" here.  The third argument
>  b> should be a filename, as specified in org-remember-templates
>
> Yes, it is a filename.

I guess you'd better use complete filenames "~/Tools/Org/Email". BTW,
the file were remember notes are stored should be an Org file, so it
makes sense to name it "~/Tools/Org/Email.org".

> I tried that.
>
> When typing "C-c C-c" it asks for a filename to save into (instead of
> saving into the default, as the menu claims) and when trying to
> specify the existing file, I get

org-remember-apply-template make `org-remember-default-headline' and
`org-default-notes-file' buffer-local -- so you might need to restart
your config access the new value for these variables.


> ## Filing location: Select interactively, default, or last used:
> ##     C-u C-c C-c  to select file and header location interactively.
> ##         C-c C-c  "~/.notes" -> "* "
> ## C-u C-u C-c C-c  "???" -> "* ???"
> ## To switch templates, use `M-x org-remember'.

This mean that "~/Tools/Org/Email" was not understood as the file
location for your remember file.

Please

1. append an ".org" extension to your file
2. restart your config
3. test and report again

> So it seems that remember/org is malfunctioning somehow.

Works nice here...

-- 
Bastien

Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Carsten Dominik]

On Sep 25, 2007, at 7:05, Georg C. F. Greve wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:52:44 +0200
> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
>
>  b> You can also set `org-remember-default-headline'.  In your case,
>  b> maybe "Emails" is a good choice:
>
>  b> (setq org-remember-default-headline "Emails")
>
> Yes, this seems useful.
>
>
>  b> Then you have to make sure there is a headline containing "Emails"
>  b> in your `org-default-notes-file' or in the file the template is
>  b> pointing to.
>
> What would happen if there were no such headline? Would it be created?

Not so far, but this is a good idea, I will implement this.

>
>>> (setq org-remember-templates
>>> '((?e "* NEXT %?\n  %i\n  %a" "Email" "Emails")))
>  b>                                        ^^^^^
>  b> So I would suggest this configuration:
>
> I tried that.
>
> When typing "C-c C-c" it asks for a filename to save into (instead of
> saving into the default, as the menu claims)

??? Which version do you have?

This depends on the variable `org-remember-store-without-prompt' and
works fine with the current version.

>  and when trying to specify
> the existing file, I get
>
>  "File `/home/greve/Tools/Org/Email' exists; overwrite? (y or n)"
>
> which I declined as I don't want to lose that file.

???  I have never seen that.  Anyone?

>
> If I do "C-c C-c" and give it "~/.notes" by hand (which should not have
> been necessary in the first place) I get the following result for
> .notes, regardless of its previous state:
> ## Filing location: Select interactively, default, or last used:
> ##     C-u C-c C-c  to select file and header location interactively.
> ##         C-c C-c  "~/.notes" -> "* "
> ## C-u C-u C-c C-c  "???" -> "* ???"
> ## To switch templates, use `M-x org-remember'.
>
> * NEXT This is a test for an email
>   [[mairix:m:20070924225226.GA9383@atlantic.linksys.moosehall][Email 
> from Adam Spiers: Re: Orgmode GTD: Solving the]]
>
> So it seems that remember/org is malfunctioning somehow.

Again, I have never seen this.
hmmm, we had a thread recently where someone was complain that the 
comments were not
removed.  Does anyone remember was the reason was?

- Carsten

Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Georg C. F. Greve]

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Hi Bastien,

thanks a lot for your help, very useful:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:44:30 +0200
Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote: 

 b> Please

 b> 1. append an ".org" extension to your file
 b> 2. restart your config
 b> 3. test and report again

When following steps 2 and 3, I get

 "byte-code: Target files for remember notes must be in Org-mode"

and when making "~/Tools/Org/E.org" the default file name, things seem
to work fine with the one exception that instead of creating the heading
that was specified as default, it creates a "* Notes" heading. This
makes no sense, imho. If a heading is created, why not creat the
default?

On changing the file names, I wanted to avoid that, because the file
names are used in generating the agenda, and I don't want to lose four
characters in the compact view. Also it is generally unnecessary in
terms of using Org mode, as Emacs can also identify files by content,
e.g. my Email file says

"Georg's Email TODO Org File					              -*- mode: org; -*-"

So I consider that necessity a bug. The user has explicitly specified
that this is an Org file, remember should not consider itself smarter
than the user and insist on the file name extension.

Here is what I think should be done:

 a) use the default heading name specified by the user for
    auto-creation, instead of "Notes".

 b) remove file name extension sensitivity for Org mode files, or make
    it smart enough to *actually* read the buffer to see what mode it is
    in, because it should have to open the file to add the item.

How hard would it be to do that? Opinions?

Regards,
Georg

-- 
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Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Bastien]

"Georg C. F. Greve" <greve@fsfeurope.org> writes:

> and when making "~/Tools/Org/E.org" the default file name, things seem
> to work fine with the one exception that instead of creating the heading
> that was specified as default, it creates a "* Notes" heading. 

I cannot reproduce this. Anyway, since the headings defined in the
templates are created once, you can create them by hand for now then
leave the rest of the config untouched.

> If a heading is created, why not creat the default?

It's what Org does for me.

> On changing the file names, I wanted to avoid that, because the file
> names are used in generating the agenda, and I don't want to lose four
> characters in the compact view.

The agenda display also uses the #+CATEGORY property. So that you can
have long-filenames-are-fun.org, if the category for this file is LFNAF
then the agenda will show LFNAF :)

> "Georg's Email TODO Org File         -*- mode: org; -*-"

Agreed!

> So I consider that necessity a bug. The user has explicitly specified
> that this is an Org file, remember should not consider itself smarter
> than the user and insist on the file name extension.

Did you try to remember a note with "~/Tools/Org/E" and the string
"-*- mode: org; -*-"?  The test is done with (org-mode-p), so the string
on the first line should be okay.

>  b) remove file name extension sensitivity for Org mode files, or make
>     it smart enough to *actually* read the buffer to see what mode it is
>     in, because it should have to open the file to add the item.

This is currently the case.

-- 
Bastien

Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Carsten Dominik]

On Sep 25, 2007, at 9:08, Georg C. F. Greve wrote:

> Hi Bastien,
>
> thanks a lot for your help, very useful:
>
> On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:44:30 +0200
> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
>
>  b> Please
>
>  b> 1. append an ".org" extension to your file
>  b> 2. restart your config
>  b> 3. test and report again
>
> When following steps 2 and 3, I get
>
>  "byte-code: Target files for remember notes must be in Org-mode"
>
> and when making "~/Tools/Org/E.org" the default file name, things seem
> to work fine with the one exception that instead of creating the 
> heading
> that was specified as default, it creates a "* Notes" heading. This
> makes no sense, imho. If a heading is created, why not creat the
> default?
>
> On changing the file names, I wanted to avoid that, because the file
> names are used in generating the agenda, and I don't want to lose four
> characters in the compact view. Also it is generally unnecessary in
> terms of using Org mode, as Emacs can also identify files by content,
> e.g. my Email file says
>
> "Georg's Email TODO Org File					              -*- mode: org; -*-"
>
> So I consider that necessity a bug.

It is not necessary to rename the file - if you file comes up in 
org-mode
when you open it in Emacs, everything is fine.  The fact that you get 
this
error means that the file Org-mode is visiting on order to store the
note is *not* in org-mode.

>  The user has explicitly specified
> that this is an Org file, remember should not consider itself smarter
> than the user and insist on the file name extension.
>
> Here is what I think should be done:
>
>  a) use the default heading name specified by the user for
>     auto-creation, instead of "Notes".

Yes.

- Carsten

Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Nuutti Kotivuori]

Carsten Dominik wrote:
> Again, I have never seen this.  hmmm, we had a thread recently where
> someone was complain that the comments were not removed.  Does
> anyone remember was the reason was?

Simply that the remember handler was not the org-mode handler, instead
the data was filed with the default remember behaviour, althought the
template came from org-mode.

-- Naked

Re: Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Carsten Dominik]

On Sep 25, 2007, at 10:35, Nuutti Kotivuori wrote:

> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>> Again, I have never seen this.  hmmm, we had a thread recently where
>> someone was complain that the comments were not removed.  Does
>> anyone remember was the reason was?
>
> Simply that the remember handler was not the org-mode handler, instead
> the data was filed with the default remember behaviour, althought the
> template came from org-mode.

Right, thanks.

- Carsten

Re: GTD: Solving the bottleneck of converting incoming mails to NEXT actions

[Georg C. F. Greve]

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On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:34:20 -0700
Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote: 

 cd> It is not necessary to rename the file - if you file comes up in
 cd> org-mode when you open it in Emacs, everything is fine.

...and now it is. Not sure how to reproduce the bug; maybe it was a
glitch somewhere in between the various experiments. There might have
been some buffering issues going on.

I'll play with this a little more now, I think this is going exactly to
what I was looking for, and I have an additional idea or two about the
search things, too. Will post my setup for reference when I'm done.

Regards,
Georg

-- 
Georg C. F. Greve                                 <greve@fsfeurope.org>
Free Software Foundation Europe	                 (http://fsfeurope.org)
Join the Fellowship and protect your freedom!     (http://www.fsfe.org)
What everyone should know about DRM                   (http://DRM.info)

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