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* Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
@ 2009-08-11  9:24 PT
  2009-08-11  9:36 ` Scot Becker
  2009-08-11 12:15 ` Leo
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: PT @ 2009-08-11  9:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Often I want to move an item or a subtree to an other location
with M-up/down and I get the message "Cannot move past superior
level".

I think there could be an option allowing this behavior. In
practice I found sometimes it would be quicker and easier to move
stuff under a different heading in the same file by simply using
Meta+cursor keys than using the refill interface.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11  9:24 Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely PT
@ 2009-08-11  9:36 ` Scot Becker
  2009-08-11  9:56   ` Carsten Dominik
                     ` (2 more replies)
  2009-08-11 12:15 ` Leo
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Scot Becker @ 2009-08-11  9:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: PT; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

+1

I always supposed there was some Good Reason (tm) for prohibiting
this, which I hadn't yet understood, so I never asked for it before.
But since PT asked, I'll join in.

Scot


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:24 AM, PT<spamfilteraccount@gmail.com> wrote:
> Often I want to move an item or a subtree to an other location
> with M-up/down and I get the message "Cannot move past superior
> level".
>
> I think there could be an option allowing this behavior. In
> practice I found sometimes it would be quicker and easier to move
> stuff under a different heading in the same file by simply using
> Meta+cursor keys than using the refill interface.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11  9:36 ` Scot Becker
@ 2009-08-11  9:56   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-08-11 10:12     ` PT
  2009-08-11  9:57   ` Eric S Fraga
  2009-08-11  9:57   ` Giovanni Lanzani
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-08-11  9:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Scot Becker; +Cc: PT, emacs-orgmode

The good reason is this:


* heading
** A child
*** a grand child

if you try to move the grand child up, the integrity of the
tree is broken because then you have

* heading
*** a grand child
** A child

Even worse if you move a child beyond the first top-level heading.

I do M-left M-up M-right to get past a parent.  When moving down,
M-left M-down M-right will get you to the end of that subtree, but
otherwise it works just fine.

- Carsten

On Aug 11, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Scot Becker wrote:

> +1
>
> I always supposed there was some Good Reason (tm) for prohibiting
> this, which I hadn't yet understood, so I never asked for it before.
> But since PT asked, I'll join in.
>
> Scot
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:24 AM, PT<spamfilteraccount@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> Often I want to move an item or a subtree to an other location
>> with M-up/down and I get the message "Cannot move past superior
>> level".
>>
>> I think there could be an option allowing this behavior. In
>> practice I found sometimes it would be quicker and easier to move
>> stuff under a different heading in the same file by simply using
>> Meta+cursor keys than using the refill interface.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11  9:36 ` Scot Becker
  2009-08-11  9:56   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-08-11  9:57   ` Eric S Fraga
  2009-08-11  9:57   ` Giovanni Lanzani
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2009-08-11  9:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Scot Becker; +Cc: PT, emacs-orgmode

At Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:36:16 +0100,
Scot Becker wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
> I always supposed there was some Good Reason (tm) for prohibiting
> this, which I hadn't yet understood, so I never asked for it before.
> But since PT asked, I'll join in.

+1

ditto.  I often find myself doing an arbitrary sequence of M-up,
M-left, M-up, M-right, M-up, with one or more instances of each of
these actions as required, all to move past a higher level heading
/barrier/.

but I can't say I'm all that bothered, especially if there is a Good
Reason why this is not possible!

eric

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11  9:36 ` Scot Becker
  2009-08-11  9:56   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-08-11  9:57   ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2009-08-11  9:57   ` Giovanni Lanzani
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Giovanni Lanzani @ 2009-08-11  9:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode; +Cc: ulissesroc

> +1
>
> I always supposed there was some Good Reason (tm) for prohibiting
> this, which I hadn't yet understood, so I never asked for it before.
> But since PT asked, I'll join in.
>
> Scot
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:24 AM, PT<spamfilteraccount@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Often I want to move an item or a subtree to an other location
>> with M-up/down and I get the message "Cannot move past superior
>> level".
>>
>> I think there could be an option allowing this behavior. In
>> practice I found sometimes it would be quicker and easier to move
>> stuff under a different heading in the same file by simply using
>> Meta+cursor keys than using the refill interface.
>>



+2

Now what I have to do in order to get it is to to M-right and then M-up,
and M-left to accomplish the same results.

Giovanni

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11  9:56   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-08-11 10:12     ` PT
  2009-08-11 10:35       ` PT
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: PT @ 2009-08-11 10:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> I do M-left M-up M-right to get past a parent.  When moving down,
> M-left M-down M-right will get you to the end of that subtree, but
> otherwise it works just fine.

It seems like something which org could also do if the user sets the option.

If I move the tree up with M-up and it sees I'm at the parent heading then it 
could set the header level to the same as the parent's, move the item above the 
parent and leave it there, letting me do the rest of the positioning manually.

So it would spare at least an M-left for the user which doesn't seem much, but 
small things add up in the long run.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11 10:12     ` PT
@ 2009-08-11 10:35       ` PT
  2009-08-11 12:04         ` Tassilo Horn
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: PT @ 2009-08-11 10:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

PT <spamfilteraccount <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> So it would spare at least an M-left for the user which doesn't seem much, but 
> small things add up in the long run.
> 

Maybe the M-right part wouldn't be too hard either. If above the
moved up header (which is now at the same level as its previous
parent header after an automatic M-left) there is an other header
on the same level then it could be put under it with an automatic
M-right.

It could spare 2 keypresses which would be a real improvement.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11 10:35       ` PT
@ 2009-08-11 12:04         ` Tassilo Horn
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Tassilo Horn @ 2009-08-11 12:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

PT <spamfilteraccount@gmail.com> writes:

Hi!

>> So it would spare at least an M-left for the user which doesn't seem
>> much, but small things add up in the long run.
>> 
>
> Maybe the M-right part wouldn't be too hard either. If above the moved
> up header (which is now at the same level as its previous parent
> header after an automatic M-left) there is an other header on the same
> level then it could be put under it with an automatic M-right.
>
> It could spare 2 keypresses which would be a real improvement.

I can't see that this would be a big improvement.  If you want to move
the subtree that far away that the number of keystrokes invoced makes a
difference, then probably you should have used refiling in the first
run.

At least I'm one of those that would accidentially destroy the document
structure with such an automatic reparenting. ;-)

Well, as optional feature I don't have an opinion.  But I think you
could add an around advice to `org-metaup' to get that behavior.  Simply
ad-do-it and catch a possible error.  If there was none, you are ok.  If
there was one, you have to call `org-metaleft' followed by `org-metaup'
again.

Bye,
Tassilo

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11  9:24 Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely PT
  2009-08-11  9:36 ` Scot Becker
@ 2009-08-11 12:15 ` Leo
  2009-08-11 13:09   ` Matt Lundin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Leo @ 2009-08-11 12:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

On 2009-08-11 10:24 +0100, PT wrote:
> Often I want to move an item or a subtree to an other location
> with M-up/down and I get the message "Cannot move past superior
> level".
>
> I think there could be an option allowing this behavior. In
> practice I found sometimes it would be quicker and easier to move
> stuff under a different heading in the same file by simply using
> Meta+cursor keys than using the refill interface.

I agree with Carsten and Tassilo. I don't see this as an improvement.
C-k and C-y is easy enough to move substrees and it can move them
anywhere.

-- 
Emacs uptime: 21 hours, 53 minutes, 48 seconds

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11 12:15 ` Leo
@ 2009-08-11 13:09   ` Matt Lundin
  2009-08-11 13:24     ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Matt Lundin @ 2009-08-11 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Leo; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Leo <sdl.web@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2009-08-11 10:24 +0100, PT wrote:
>> Often I want to move an item or a subtree to an other location
>> with M-up/down and I get the message "Cannot move past superior
>> level".
>>
>> I think there could be an option allowing this behavior. In
>> practice I found sometimes it would be quicker and easier to move
>> stuff under a different heading in the same file by simply using
>> Meta+cursor keys than using the refill interface.
>
> I agree with Carsten and Tassilo. I don't see this as an improvement.
> C-k and C-y is easy enough to move substrees and it can move them
> anywhere.

I agree with Leo, Carsten, and Tassilo. When I move a subtree to a
different tree entirely, I use C-k and C-y or refile. 

I appreciate that org/outline mode respects the integrity of the outline
tree. Otherwise, IMO, M-up/down could easily wreak havoc with the
structure of the document.

- Matt

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11 13:09   ` Matt Lundin
@ 2009-08-11 13:24     ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-08-11 16:05       ` Scot Becker
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-08-11 13:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Matt Lundin; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Leo

Thank you all for your input, I am not going to make a change here.

- Carsten

On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:09 PM, Matt Lundin wrote:

> Leo <sdl.web@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2009-08-11 10:24 +0100, PT wrote:
>>> Often I want to move an item or a subtree to an other location
>>> with M-up/down and I get the message "Cannot move past superior
>>> level".
>>>
>>> I think there could be an option allowing this behavior. In
>>> practice I found sometimes it would be quicker and easier to move
>>> stuff under a different heading in the same file by simply using
>>> Meta+cursor keys than using the refill interface.
>>
>> I agree with Carsten and Tassilo. I don't see this as an improvement.
>> C-k and C-y is easy enough to move substrees and it can move them
>> anywhere.
>
> I agree with Leo, Carsten, and Tassilo. When I move a subtree to a
> different tree entirely, I use C-k and C-y or refile.
>
> I appreciate that org/outline mode respects the integrity of the  
> outline
> tree. Otherwise, IMO, M-up/down could easily wreak havoc with the
> structure of the document.
>
> - Matt
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: Re: Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely
  2009-08-11 13:24     ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-08-11 16:05       ` Scot Becker
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Scot Becker @ 2009-08-11 16:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: Matt Lundin, emacs-orgmode, Leo

> I appreciate that org/outline mode respects the integrity of the outline
> tree. Otherwise, IMO, M-up/down could easily wreak havoc with the
> structure of the document.

ditto.  See I thought there was a Good Reason.

Scot

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2009-08-11 16:05 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-08-11  9:24 Org suggestion: option which allows moving subtrees freely PT
2009-08-11  9:36 ` Scot Becker
2009-08-11  9:56   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-08-11 10:12     ` PT
2009-08-11 10:35       ` PT
2009-08-11 12:04         ` Tassilo Horn
2009-08-11  9:57   ` Eric S Fraga
2009-08-11  9:57   ` Giovanni Lanzani
2009-08-11 12:15 ` Leo
2009-08-11 13:09   ` Matt Lundin
2009-08-11 13:24     ` Carsten Dominik
2009-08-11 16:05       ` Scot Becker

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