* RSI
@ 2009-09-01 18:11 Samuel Wales
2009-09-01 18:16 ` RSI Samuel Wales
` (4 more replies)
0 siblings, 5 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2009-09-01 18:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: PT; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Orgers,
Repetitive strain injury is real and important.
One thing that you can do is to ensure that you have a keyboard that
has modifier keys on both sides. You should pound a new habit into
your cerebellum: use two hands.
For example, c-c c-o should look like this:
r hand presses ctrl
l hand presses c
let go
l hand presses ctrl
r hand presses o
let go
This is obviously inefficient, but it is the correct thing.
Ideally, the most important c-c and c-x operations would be on the
lhs. That way, you can hold down ctrl and press the two keys.
Many (maybe even most) will find this idea strange. But I urge all of
you to try it for a few months.
On 2009-09-01, PT <spamfilteraccount@gmail.com> wrote:
> Matt Lundin <mdl <at> imapmail.org> writes:
>>
>> An aside: Swapping caps-lock and control makes C-c a very convenient
>> key combination.
>>
>
> If things come that one can also configure e.g. the right control
> key as a special prefix key which makes such combinations even
> more convenient, because unlike "C-c a" you can press "Rctrl a"
> with two hands.
>
> In case of right handed people the right control key is usually
> unused, so it's practical to use it for something else than it's
> original purpose.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
--
Myalgic encephalomyelitis causes death (Jason et al. 2006)
and severe suffering. Conflicts of interest are destroying
research. What people "know" is wrong. Silence = death.
http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread* Re: RSI 2009-09-01 18:11 RSI Samuel Wales @ 2009-09-01 18:16 ` Samuel Wales 2009-09-01 18:22 ` RSI Keith Lancaster ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Samuel Wales @ 2009-09-01 18:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: PT; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Clarification. On 2009-09-01, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote: > Ideally, the most important c-c and c-x operations would be on the > lhs. That way, you can hold down ctrl and press the two keys. I mean c-c c-letter not c-c letter here. -- Myalgic encephalomyelitis causes death (Jason et al. 2006) and severe suffering. Conflicts of interest are destroying research. What people "know" is wrong. Silence = death. http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: RSI 2009-09-01 18:11 RSI Samuel Wales 2009-09-01 18:16 ` RSI Samuel Wales @ 2009-09-01 18:22 ` Keith Lancaster 2009-11-04 11:22 ` RSI Adam Spiers 2009-09-01 18:22 ` RSI PT ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Keith Lancaster @ 2009-09-01 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Org Mode List Emacs can definitely lead to RSI - Richard Stallman, the creator, developed it. I am quite prone to RSI, which led me to VIM due to its modal operation (very few modifier key combos). I used VIM for quite a while and did not have any issues, but org-mode pulled me to emacs. I now use a kinesis keyboard and have no RSI issues. The keyboard combined with the idea expressed below that you use different hands when pressing control key combinations has really helped. The Kinesis puts all the control keys (control, meta, command) on your thumbs. Its expensive, but worth every penny to me at least. Check them out at http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/ Keith On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Samuel Wales wrote: > Orgers, > > Repetitive strain injury is real and important. > > One thing that you can do is to ensure that you have a keyboard that > has modifier keys on both sides. You should pound a new habit into > your cerebellum: use two hands. > > For example, c-c c-o should look like this: > > r hand presses ctrl > l hand presses c > let go > l hand presses ctrl > r hand presses o > let go > > This is obviously inefficient, but it is the correct thing. > > Ideally, the most important c-c and c-x operations would be on the > lhs. That way, you can hold down ctrl and press the two keys. > > Many (maybe even most) will find this idea strange. But I urge all of > you to try it for a few months. > > > On 2009-09-01, PT <spamfilteraccount@gmail.com> wrote: >> Matt Lundin <mdl <at> imapmail.org> writes: >>> >>> An aside: Swapping caps-lock and control makes C-c a very convenient >>> key combination. >>> >> >> If things come that one can also configure e.g. the right control >> key as a special prefix key which makes such combinations even >> more convenient, because unlike "C-c a" you can press "Rctrl a" >> with two hands. >> >> In case of right handed people the right control key is usually >> unused, so it's practical to use it for something else than it's >> original purpose. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> > > > -- > Myalgic encephalomyelitis causes death (Jason et al. 2006) > and severe suffering. Conflicts of interest are destroying > research. What people "know" is wrong. Silence = death. > http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode Keith Lancaster klancaster1957@mac.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: RSI 2009-09-01 18:22 ` RSI Keith Lancaster @ 2009-11-04 11:22 ` Adam Spiers 2009-11-04 14:30 ` RSI Bill Powell 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Adam Spiers @ 2009-11-04 11:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 01:22:13PM -0500, Keith Lancaster wrote: > Emacs can definitely lead to RSI - Richard Stallman, the creator, > developed it. > > I am quite prone to RSI, which led me to VIM due to its modal > operation (very few modifier key combos). I used VIM for quite a > while and did not have any issues, but org-mode pulled me to emacs. > I now use a kinesis keyboard and have no RSI issues. The keyboard > combined with the idea expressed below that you use different hands > when pressing control key combinations has really helped. The > Kinesis puts all the control keys (control, meta, command) on your > thumbs. Its expensive, but worth every penny to me at least. Check > them out at http://www.kinesis-ergo. I've come to this discussion a few months late, but I just wanted to add my strongest recommendation for Kinesis keyboards to Keith's and Ben's. Their contoured keyboards have quite simply saved my career from certain demise: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/contoured.htm I can't say that about any other piece of electronic kit I've ever bought, no matter how fancy - when viewed in that light, it transforms the seemingly crazy investment of several hundred dollars on a couple of keyboards into a complete no-brainer. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: RSI 2009-11-04 11:22 ` RSI Adam Spiers @ 2009-11-04 14:30 ` Bill Powell 0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Bill Powell @ 2009-11-04 14:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode +++ Adam Spiers [04/11/09 11:22 +0000]: > On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 01:22:13PM -0500, Keith Lancaster wrote: > > Emacs can definitely lead to RSI - Richard Stallman, the creator, > > developed it. > > > > I am quite prone to RSI, which led me to VIM due to its modal > > operation (very few modifier key combos). I used VIM for quite a > > while and did not have any issues, but org-mode pulled me to emacs. I'm also late to this discussion, and wanted to mention viper mode. I've recently migrated to Emacs from Vim -- mostly for org-mode, and I don't think I could survive without Viper mode. :) Someone mentioned viper earlier in this thread, and having trouble with it with org-mode. Actually, I find it works fine. There are a couple gotchas, like avoiding "dd" for folded items (as mentioned). Use C-w or M-w to cut/copy a folded item. And you'll probably want to configure your .viper file a bit. But for me, at least, having spent years in Vim, Viper mode is well worth it. Besides, you can always C-z into Emacs mode if you need to. I don't need to for org-mode, but occasionally do for other other Emacs things--ledger-mode reconciling, for instance. Bill Powell -- _____________________________________________________________ http://stmarysmessenger.com : New Catholic magazine for kids! http://wineskinmedia.com : Books and sites crafted with care. http://billpowellisalive.com : Man found alive with two legs. _____________________________________________________________ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: RSI 2009-09-01 18:11 RSI Samuel Wales 2009-09-01 18:16 ` RSI Samuel Wales 2009-09-01 18:22 ` RSI Keith Lancaster @ 2009-09-01 18:22 ` PT 2009-09-01 19:50 ` RSI Matt Lundin 2009-09-07 13:25 ` RSI B Smith-Mannschott 4 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: PT @ 2009-09-01 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Samuel Wales <samologist <at> gmail.com> writes: > > One thing that you can do is to ensure that you have a keyboard that > has modifier keys on both sides. You should pound a new habit into > your cerebellum: use two hands. > > ... > > Many (maybe even most) will find this idea strange. But I urge all of > you to try it for a few months. I agree it's a good idea. For those who think this approach is too radical I recommend trying out sticky keys as an alternative which also alleviates a bit the effects of the finger killing C-x/C-c and similar combinations: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/StickyModifiers ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: RSI 2009-09-01 18:11 RSI Samuel Wales ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2009-09-01 18:22 ` RSI PT @ 2009-09-01 19:50 ` Matt Lundin 2009-09-07 9:48 ` RSI Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga 2009-09-07 13:25 ` RSI B Smith-Mannschott 4 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Matt Lundin @ 2009-09-01 19:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Samuel Wales; +Cc: PT, emacs-orgmode Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes: > Repetitive strain injury is real and important. > > One thing that you can do is to ensure that you have a keyboard that > has modifier keys on both sides. You should pound a new habit into > your cerebellum: use two hands. > > For example, c-c c-o should look like this: > > r hand presses ctrl > l hand presses c > let go > l hand presses ctrl > r hand presses o > let go > > This is obviously inefficient, but it is the correct thing. > > Ideally, the most important c-c and c-x operations would be on the > lhs. That way, you can hold down ctrl and press the two keys. > > Many (maybe even most) will find this idea strange. But I urge all of > you to try it for a few months. This is no doubt the correct method, but it is not realistic for many users given the idiosyncratic layouts of keyboards today. Many of the laptops I've used have had a misplaced or non-existent right control key. Thus, short of using viper, the only solution that works for me is to use the Caps Lock key as Control. With that slight modification, I find emacs controls *very* comfortable (perhaps even as comfortable than vim). Once I made that switch, RSI issues disappeared virtually overnight. Now, any RSI issues I experience come from using n and p or j and k repeatedly. Needless to say, YMMV. Best, Matt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RSI 2009-09-01 19:50 ` RSI Matt Lundin @ 2009-09-07 9:48 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga 2009-09-07 11:34 ` Alan E. Davis 2009-09-11 15:34 ` Matthew Lundin 0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga @ 2009-09-07 9:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Lundin; +Cc: emacs-orgmode At Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:50:08 -0400, Matt Lundin wrote: > key. Thus, short of using viper, the only solution that works for me is > to use the Caps Lock key as Control. With that slight modification, I > find emacs controls *very* comfortable (perhaps even as comfortable than Yes, making caps lock act as control is key to using emacs without pain (for me). However, it's not a full solution for some keyboards which don't have a caps lock key. Therefore, I'm intrigued by your reference to viper: is it possible to use, constructively and easily, viper with org-mode? If so, any pointers on how to accomplish this would be fantastic! A modal approach to writing/editing is fine with me. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RSI 2009-09-07 9:48 ` RSI Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga @ 2009-09-07 11:34 ` Alan E. Davis 2009-09-11 15:34 ` Matthew Lundin 1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Alan E. Davis @ 2009-09-07 11:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: e.fraga; +Cc: Matt Lundin, emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1887 bytes --] My 2 cents' worth. In the 80's I learned to use word star with an XT keyboard, with function keys down the left side and Ctl and Shift or Caps Lock opposite from the AT keyboard. I felt at the time, the AT keyboard was a step backwards. Just this year, I tried to find an XT keyboard, style but wasn't able to locate one. I'd swap Caps Lock with Ctrl on my own keyboards, except I have three or four computers I use routinely, including a laptop, and it would just be more aggravation. Any how, I wondered if the XT style keyboard would work well with emacs, and how or whether this would affect this RSI issue. Alan You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing---that's what counts. ----Richard Feynman On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> wrote: > At Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:50:08 -0400, > Matt Lundin wrote: > > key. Thus, short of using viper, the only solution that works for me is > > to use the Caps Lock key as Control. With that slight modification, I > > find emacs controls *very* comfortable (perhaps even as comfortable than > > Yes, making caps lock act as control is key to using emacs without > pain (for me). However, it's not a full solution for some keyboards > which don't have a caps lock key. Therefore, I'm intrigued by your > reference to viper: is it possible to use, constructively and easily, > viper with org-mode? If so, any pointers on how to accomplish this > would be fantastic! A modal approach to writing/editing is fine with > me. > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2545 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RSI 2009-09-07 9:48 ` RSI Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga 2009-09-07 11:34 ` Alan E. Davis @ 2009-09-11 15:34 ` Matthew Lundin 2009-09-11 15:29 ` Eric S Fraga 1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Matthew Lundin @ 2009-09-11 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: e.fraga; +Cc: Matt Lundin, emacs-orgmode Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes: > At Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:50:08 -0400, > Matt Lundin wrote: >> key. Thus, short of using viper, the only solution that works for me is >> to use the Caps Lock key as Control. With that slight modification, I >> find emacs controls *very* comfortable (perhaps even as comfortable than > > Yes, making caps lock act as control is key to using emacs without > pain (for me). However, it's not a full solution for some keyboards > which don't have a caps lock key. Therefore, I'm intrigued by your > reference to viper: is it possible to use, constructively and easily, > viper with org-mode? If so, any pointers on how to accomplish this > would be fantastic! A modal approach to writing/editing is fine with > me. Well, I'm sorry to say that org-mode was the reason I abandoned viper. It's probably a limitation of mine, but I found it too confusing to go back and forth between all the C-c keys and viper's modal commands. I also found the behavior of "dd" and the like to be unpredictable when called on closed outline headings, drawers, etc. I much prefer the behavior of C-k in org-mode's native keybindings. I imagine there are others around here who have gotten it working. IMO, viper is fine for relatively simple text modes. But for more complex modes, I found it easier to stick with emacs' native keybindings. YMMV. - Matt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RSI 2009-09-11 15:34 ` Matthew Lundin @ 2009-09-11 15:29 ` Eric S Fraga 0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Eric S Fraga @ 2009-09-11 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthew Lundin; +Cc: emacs-orgmode At Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:34:27 -0400, Matthew Lundin wrote: > Well, I'm sorry to say that org-mode was the reason I abandoned viper. > It's probably a limitation of mine, but I found it too confusing to go > back and forth between all the C-c keys and viper's modal commands. I Thanks Matt. I kind of expected that to be the case. Oh well, I'll stick to standard emacs for now then! eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: RSI 2009-09-01 18:11 RSI Samuel Wales ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2009-09-01 19:50 ` RSI Matt Lundin @ 2009-09-07 13:25 ` B Smith-Mannschott 2009-09-07 17:16 ` RSI Daniel Martins 4 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: B Smith-Mannschott @ 2009-09-07 13:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode A few tips from an emacs hand who has had issues with repetitive strain in the past: The first thing I did after starting my first "real job" (years ago, when my RSI was pretty bad and my employer-supplied keyboard was in violation of the geneva conventions): 1. I got a kinesis contoured keyboard (like the "Kinesis Advantage" I'm typing on now.) It places C- and M- (Alt key) under your thumbs. (You could even assign them to foot pedals, though I never managed due to lack of rhythm -- guess I should have taken drumming classes at school.) The layout is completely programmable without additional software. In short: it's the ultimate emacs keybaord. 2. More recently, I had a flare up (Apple's wireless mouse is the work of the devil, for my hands at least.) It was then that I discovered "Sticky Keys". Sticky keys takes some getting used to. It makes every modifier key work a little like caps lock. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Well, it's not really. Basically, if you press control once, it "locks" control down for the next keystroke only, after which point the keyboard returns to normal. Press control twice, and it locks down until you release it with a third press. C-x C-f Used to be: press and hold control. Press and release x. press and release f. Release control. Now it's Press and release control twice. Press and release x. press and release f. Press and release control. This turns out to be easier on my hands because I don't find myself contorting my hands across the keyboard while I try to hold down more than one key at a time. I have sticky keys turned on on all my computers, except for the one at work where I have the kinesis keyboard. 3. I've rebound caps lock to control on all my keyboards (apart from the kinesis, where I have caps lock bound to the windows key.) 4. I have a "happy hacking" keyboard, which has control where caps lock is on an AT keyboard (and no caps key). The happy hacking keyboard has the drawback that it has no right control key. (Sticky keys helps here too.) // Ben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: RSI 2009-09-07 13:25 ` RSI B Smith-Mannschott @ 2009-09-07 17:16 ` Daniel Martins 2009-09-07 19:48 ` RSI B Smith-Mannschott 2009-09-08 5:50 ` RSI PT 0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Daniel Martins @ 2009-09-07 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: B Smith-Mannschott; +Cc: emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2452 bytes --] Ben, Please publish your .emacs configuration! Daniel 2009/9/7 B Smith-Mannschott <bsmith.occs@gmail.com> > A few tips from an emacs hand who has had issues with repetitive > strain in the past: > > The first thing I did after starting my first "real job" (years ago, > when my RSI was pretty bad and my employer-supplied keyboard was in > violation of the geneva conventions): > > 1. I got a kinesis contoured keyboard (like the "Kinesis Advantage" > I'm typing on now.) It places C- and M- (Alt key) under your thumbs. > (You could even assign them to foot pedals, though I never managed due > to lack of rhythm -- guess I should have taken drumming classes at > school.) The layout is completely programmable without additional > software. In short: it's the ultimate emacs keybaord. > > 2. More recently, I had a flare up (Apple's wireless mouse is the work > of the devil, for my hands at least.) It was then that I discovered > "Sticky Keys". > > Sticky keys takes some getting used to. It makes every modifier key > work a little like caps lock. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Well, it's > not really. Basically, if you press control once, it "locks" control > down for the next keystroke only, after which point the keyboard > returns to normal. Press control twice, and it locks down until you > release it with a third press. > > C-x C-f > > Used to be: press and hold control. Press and release x. press and > release f. Release control. > Now it's Press and release control twice. Press and release x. press > and release f. Press and release control. > > This turns out to be easier on my hands because I don't find myself > contorting my hands across the keyboard while I try to hold down more > than one key at a time. I have sticky keys turned on on all my > computers, except for the one at work where I have the kinesis > keyboard. > > 3. I've rebound caps lock to control on all my keyboards (apart from > the kinesis, where I have caps lock bound to the windows key.) > > 4. I have a "happy hacking" keyboard, which has control where caps > lock is on an AT keyboard (and no caps key). The happy hacking > keyboard has the drawback that it has no right control key. (Sticky > keys helps here too.) > > // Ben > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3152 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: RSI 2009-09-07 17:16 ` RSI Daniel Martins @ 2009-09-07 19:48 ` B Smith-Mannschott 2009-09-08 5:50 ` RSI PT 1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: B Smith-Mannschott @ 2009-09-07 19:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Daniel Martins; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 19:16, Daniel Martins<danielemc@gmail.com> wrote: > Ben, > > Please publish your .emacs configuration! > > Daniel I think you've misunderstood. There's no emacs magic that makes what I describe below work, It's all hardware and features built into my various operating systems. (more below). // Ben > 2009/9/7 B Smith-Mannschott <bsmith.occs@gmail.com> >> >> A few tips from an emacs hand who has had issues with repetitive >> strain in the past: >> >> The first thing I did after starting my first "real job" (years ago, >> when my RSI was pretty bad and my employer-supplied keyboard was in >> violation of the geneva conventions): >> >> 1. I got a kinesis contoured keyboard (like the "Kinesis Advantage" >> I'm typing on now.) It places C- and M- (Alt key) under your thumbs. >> (You could even assign them to foot pedals, though I never managed due >> to lack of rhythm -- guess I should have taken drumming classes at >> school.) The layout is completely programmable without additional >> software. In short: it's the ultimate emacs keybaord. >> >> 2. More recently, I had a flare up (Apple's wireless mouse is the work >> of the devil, for my hands at least.) It was then that I discovered >> "Sticky Keys". >> >> Sticky keys takes some getting used to. It makes every modifier key >> work a little like caps lock. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Well, it's >> not really. Basically, if you press control once, it "locks" control >> down for the next keystroke only, after which point the keyboard >> returns to normal. Press control twice, and it locks down until you >> release it with a third press. >> >> C-x C-f >> >> Used to be: press and hold control. Press and release x. press and >> release f. Release control. >> Now it's Press and release control twice. Press and release x. press >> and release f. Press and release control. >> >> This turns out to be easier on my hands because I don't find myself >> contorting my hands across the keyboard while I try to hold down more >> than one key at a time. I have sticky keys turned on on all my >> computers, except for the one at work where I have the kinesis >> keyboard. I've found that recent versions of windows (XP and later, possibly earlier too), Mac OS X and the Gnome Desktop all support some form of "sticky keys". I found it buggy in in Ubuntu 8.04 and 8.10 but it works reliably in 9.04. [The specific problem is this: under 8.04 and 8.10 the option "disable sticky keys if two keys are pressed together" doesn't work. clearing this checkbox does not write through to the corresponding gnome registry setting. Editing of said setting by hand is the workaround. Also, attaching an external keyboard causes Gnome to forget that it's supposed to be using sticky keys.] >> 3. I've rebound caps lock to control on all my keyboards (apart from >> the kinesis, where I have caps lock bound to the windows key.) The ability to rebind caps to control is built into both Mac OS X and Ubuntu (GNOME). In years past I've used a registry hack on windows to achieve the same affect. I don't anymore because I use my Kinesis with my windows machine and Kinesis does rebinding in hardware. >> 4. I have a "happy hacking" keyboard, which has control where caps >> lock is on an AT keyboard (and no caps key). The happy hacking >> keyboard has the drawback that it has no right control key. (Sticky >> keys helps here too.) >> >> // Ben >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: RSI 2009-09-07 17:16 ` RSI Daniel Martins 2009-09-07 19:48 ` RSI B Smith-Mannschott @ 2009-09-08 5:50 ` PT 2009-09-08 8:05 ` RSI B Smith-Mannschott 1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: PT @ 2009-09-08 5:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Daniel Martins <danielemc <at> gmail.com> writes: > Sticky keys takes some getting used to. It makes every modifier key > work a little like caps lock. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Well, it's > not really. Basically, if you press control once, it "locks" control > down for the next keystroke only, after which point the keyboard > returns to normal. Press control twice, and it locks down until you > release it with a third press. > C-x C-f > Used to be: press and hold control. Press and release x. press and > release f. Release control. > Now it's Press and release control twice. Press and release x. press > and release f. Press and release control. I don't know which implementation you use, but with Windows' built-in sticky key setup there is no change compared to the usual order of keys: press/release ctrl, press/release x, press/release ctrl, press/release f No need to press and release control twice at the beginning, so it's the same number of keypresses as the usual method, you only need to pay attention you release the previous key before pressing the next one. > This turns out to be easier on my hands because I don't find myself > contorting my hands across the keyboard while I try to hold down more > than one key at a time. Very true. Two keys should never be pressed with the same hand at the same time. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RSI 2009-09-08 5:50 ` RSI PT @ 2009-09-08 8:05 ` B Smith-Mannschott 0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: B Smith-Mannschott @ 2009-09-08 8:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 07:50, PT<spamfilteraccount@gmail.com> wrote: > Daniel Martins <danielemc <at> gmail.com> writes: > >> Sticky keys takes some getting used to. It makes every modifier key >> work a little like caps lock. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Well, it's >> not really. Basically, if you press control once, it "locks" control >> down for the next keystroke only, after which point the keyboard >> returns to normal. Press control twice, and it locks down until you >> release it with a third press. >> C-x C-f >> Used to be: press and hold control. Press and release x. press and >> release f. Release control. >> Now it's Press and release control twice. Press and release x. press >> and release f. Press and release control. > > I don't know which implementation you use, but with Windows' built-in > sticky key setup there is no change compared to the usual order of keys: > > > press/release ctrl, press/release x, press/release ctrl, press/release f > > No need to press and release control twice at the beginning, so it's the > same number of keypresses as the usual method, you only need to pay > attention you release the previous key before pressing the next one. yes, you can do it this way too, in fact I usually do for two-key sequences. You do have the option of "locking down" a modifier key by pressing it twice. Press once more to release it. Occasionally I find myself inputting a burst of keystrokes under the same modifier, in cases like that it can make sense to do this. (Think of it as a "mode", in the way that word is used among the vi crowd.) I use that when I'm going to be repeating the same control key binding often, i.e. when I'm isearching through a document looking at all the matches: [ctrl] [s] sometext [ctrl][ctrl] [s] [s] [s] [s] [s] [s] [s] ... [ctrl] instead of [ctrl] [s] sometext [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] ... // Ben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <4AAD12BA.90105@alumni.ethz.ch>]
* Re: RSI [not found] <4AAD12BA.90105@alumni.ethz.ch> @ 2009-09-13 17:03 ` Michael Brand 2009-09-13 20:42 ` RSI Dave Täht 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Michael Brand @ 2009-09-13 17:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode First of all I am interested in improving the use of the modifier keys. To see what my preferences for moving them are read my (cisum) post here http://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?pid=2552#p2552 and follow both links there. - Michael Samuel Wales wrote: > Orgers, > > Repetitive strain injury is real and important. > > One thing that you can do is to ensure that you have a keyboard that > has modifier keys on both sides. You should pound a new habit into > your cerebellum: use two hands. > > For example, c-c c-o should look like this: > > r hand presses ctrl > l hand presses c > let go > l hand presses ctrl > r hand presses o > let go > > This is obviously inefficient, but it is the correct thing. > > Ideally, the most important c-c and c-x operations would be on the > lhs. That way, you can hold down ctrl and press the two keys. > > Many (maybe even most) will find this idea strange. But I urge all of > you to try it for a few months. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RSI 2009-09-13 17:03 ` RSI Michael Brand @ 2009-09-13 20:42 ` Dave Täht 2009-09-14 9:06 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Dave Täht @ 2009-09-13 20:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Brand; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Michael Brand <michael.brand@alumni.ethz.ch> writes: > First of all I am interested in improving the use of the modifier > keys. To see what my preferences for moving them are read my (cisum) > post here http://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?pid=2552#p2552 and > follow both links there. I am quite carpal, and do a few things to compensate for it. I map capslock to control, always. I use abbrev-mode for stuff like "I don't wouldn't shouldn't I'd and I'm", so I just type them lower case, without the quote, and abbrev expands them for me. (I would love it if someone wrote a clever routine to figure out when to use it's vs its, I can't ever get it right anyway. Something that would activate at the end of a sentence, look for an obvious verb, and take a best guess at the possessive or contraction form, but I digress...) I use auto-capitalize-mode to handle sentence starts and, also, words like Linux and LISP also get the correct casing treatment. (I'd love to have a much bigger list of abbrevs, I should go looking for one) These two modes in combination almost eliminates entirely my need to hit the shift key. In addition to cntrl-h being backspace, so is control-j. In text modes, I have been known to remap ; and ' to return. I figure for a few computer languages (like python) I could do that, too. I find making this context switch kind of hard (and it drives other people nuts)), however, I'd stopped doing it, until recently, because I wasn't running my life out of emacs and other apps don't take kindly to losing those keys. Although I agree with many of xah lee's suggestions ( http://xahlee.org/emacs/ergonomic_emacs_keybinding.html) about remapping emacs more ergonomically, he's wrong about meta. The second easiest thing for me to hit, after caps-lock, is the chord of capslock+shift. It's easier than alt or meta by far. That said, I have only mapped that to a few things because I just can't seem to stop using cntrl-x for commands, it's too ingrained. I'd like to save future generations pain, however... (Mostly where I remapped something that was normally cntrl-whatever, I made it cntrl-shift-whatever) I used to have a BTC keyboard with a split spacebar, half backspace, half space. Loved it. Why the spacebar has to be so huge and the other keys relatively so tiny bothers me a lot. Given the relative flexibility of my thumbs, I wouldn't mind a triply split keyboard spacebar - backspace, space, and control. I keep meaning, one of these days, to figure out how to invert the upper row of the keyboard by default. I find it much easier to type numbers on the keypad, anyway, and hitting shift to get to !@#$%^&*() seems redundant. -- Dave Taht http://the-edge.blogspot.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RSI 2009-09-13 20:42 ` RSI Dave Täht @ 2009-09-14 9:06 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga 2009-09-15 0:56 ` Dave Täht 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga @ 2009-09-14 9:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Täht; +Cc: emacs-orgmode At Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:42:44 -0600, Dave Täht wrote: > I keep meaning, one of these days, to figure out how to invert the upper > row of the keyboard by default. I find it much easier to type numbers on > the keypad, anyway, and hitting shift to get to !@#$%^&*() seems > redundant. Interesting idea (although impractical for me as two of four keyboards I use daily do not have keypads...). If you are using X Windows, you could always remap trivially using xmodmap. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RSI 2009-09-14 9:06 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga @ 2009-09-15 0:56 ` Dave Täht 2009-09-15 9:20 ` Eric S Fraga 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Dave Täht @ 2009-09-15 0:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: e.fraga; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes: > At Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:42:44 -0600, > Dave Täht wrote: >> I keep meaning, one of these days, to figure out how to invert the upper >> row of the keyboard by default. I find it much easier to type numbers on >> the keypad, anyway, and hitting shift to get to !@#$%^&*() seems >> redundant. > > Interesting idea (although impractical for me as two of four keyboards > I use daily do not have keypads...). If you are using X Windows, you > could always remap trivially using xmodmap. What I'd like is "numlock" to do the right thing, which to me, when on, is to not only turn on the numeric keypad, but shift the !@#$%^&*() characters so they don't need to be shifted to reach. And I don't know how to do that in xmodmap. > -- Dave Taht http://the-edge.blogspot.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RSI 2009-09-15 0:56 ` Dave Täht @ 2009-09-15 9:20 ` Eric S Fraga 0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Eric S Fraga @ 2009-09-15 9:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Täht; +Cc: emacs-orgmode At Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:56:27 -0600, Dave Täht wrote: > What I'd like is "numlock" to do the right thing, which to me, when on, > is to not only turn on the numeric keypad, but shift the !@#$%^&*() > characters so they don't need to be shifted to reach. > > And I don't know how to do that in xmodmap. I am not sure how to make the numlock key turn into a toggle that would make the number keys reverse their meaning. However, you could make the numlock key act as a modifier key which, in conjunction with any number key, would give the number you want. Or maybe the caps lock key will do what you want? Sorry I cannot be more helpful here; my use of xmodmap is limited to remapping specific keys such as the windows keys, the alg-gr key and the caps lock key. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-11-04 14:33 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 20+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-09-01 18:11 RSI Samuel Wales
2009-09-01 18:16 ` RSI Samuel Wales
2009-09-01 18:22 ` RSI Keith Lancaster
2009-11-04 11:22 ` RSI Adam Spiers
2009-11-04 14:30 ` RSI Bill Powell
2009-09-01 18:22 ` RSI PT
2009-09-01 19:50 ` RSI Matt Lundin
2009-09-07 9:48 ` RSI Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
2009-09-07 11:34 ` Alan E. Davis
2009-09-11 15:34 ` Matthew Lundin
2009-09-11 15:29 ` Eric S Fraga
2009-09-07 13:25 ` RSI B Smith-Mannschott
2009-09-07 17:16 ` RSI Daniel Martins
2009-09-07 19:48 ` RSI B Smith-Mannschott
2009-09-08 5:50 ` RSI PT
2009-09-08 8:05 ` RSI B Smith-Mannschott
[not found] <4AAD12BA.90105@alumni.ethz.ch>
2009-09-13 17:03 ` RSI Michael Brand
2009-09-13 20:42 ` RSI Dave Täht
2009-09-14 9:06 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
2009-09-15 0:56 ` Dave Täht
2009-09-15 9:20 ` Eric S Fraga
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