* Re: the GNU bug tracker, use it or have something similar? Gmane might block attachments in bug reports
2021-10-25 17:00 ` Max Nikulin
@ 2021-10-25 19:14 ` Uwe Brauer
2021-10-25 19:15 ` Uwe Brauer
2021-10-25 19:21 ` Uwe Brauer
2 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2021-10-25 19:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
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>>> "MN" == Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:
> On 25/10/2021 21:21, Uwe Brauer wrote:
>> org-submit-bug-report sends an email to the org-mode mailing list.
>> It
>> turns out, that if you attach a file and later display that message on
>> gmane, as I do in order to keep my email traffic in moderate numbers,
>> then gmane might block that attachment.
Thanks for your detailed answer
> I do not see your attachment on news.gmane.io as well, but it is a
> rare problem. Mostly attachments are received correctly. Moreover, a
> part of your message is truncated. I am unsure whether there is some
> limit for message size or parser was confused by excessive white
> spaces (unsure whether the message was fully conformant). Anyway, size
> of "current state" part tells that it is unlikely *minimal* example
> that you tested with "emacs -Q". Even the part received by gmane has
> size of almost 300k.
Right, it was not produced my emacs -Q my bad. Sorry.
>> Now GNU emacs has a bug tracker what can be accessed via debbugs-org and
>> there this problem does not appear.
>> The org mailing list does have a similar bug tracker which is a bit
>> of
>> problem with such a workflow.
> Attachment is available on
> https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87a6j02qf0.fsf@mat.ucm.es/
> so I do not see any problem. Likely nobody explicitly confirmed your
> bug, so it did not appear on https://updates.orgmode.org/ On the other
> hand, a patch appeared quickly enough, so reasons to complain are
> unclear for me.
That is not entirely true, Kevin, said he could not see my attachment
and quickly produced a minimal example himself, that confirmed my bug.
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87pmrupu0s.fsf@gmail.com/
(His message was the reason to bring up that subject)
>> Of course an alternative would be to CC the bug report to the GNU emacs
>> list since org mode is also in the GNU emacs tree, but I am not sure
>> whether this is a good idea.
> I am unsure to which list you are going to send a copy. Emacs-orgmode
> is hosted on gnu.org just as other emacs lists.
To
bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
That one I can access via debbugs-org
That function seems a good compromise: it does not require to be
subscribed to the list, and it does not suffer from gmane's problem.
When I call debbugs-org I do not see my bug, are you saying I should?
>
> Besides lists.gnu.org
> it is archived on public inbox instances and these archives were able
> to parse your message. For issues filed through debbugs.gnu.org
> latency is often higher that for ones sent directly to this list.
> Are there evidences that it was not a rare case when an attachments
> from a messages generated by org-submit-bug-report was lost by gmane
> and change of workflow is really required?
Well one thing I learned is to stick to emacs -Q strictly, but I would
like to know whether debbugs-org could access this bug?
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: the GNU bug tracker, use it or have something similar? Gmane might block attachments in bug reports
2021-10-25 17:00 ` Max Nikulin
2021-10-25 19:14 ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2021-10-25 19:15 ` Uwe Brauer
2021-10-25 19:21 ` Uwe Brauer
2 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2021-10-25 19:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
>>> "MN" == Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:
> On 25/10/2021 21:21, Uwe Brauer wrote:
>> org-submit-bug-report sends an email to the org-mode mailing list.
>> It
>> turns out, that if you attach a file and later display that message on
>> gmane, as I do in order to keep my email traffic in moderate numbers,
>> then gmane might block that attachment.
Thanks for your detailed answer
> I do not see your attachment on news.gmane.io as well, but it is a
> rare problem. Mostly attachments are received correctly. Moreover, a
> part of your message is truncated. I am unsure whether there is some
> limit for message size or parser was confused by excessive white
> spaces (unsure whether the message was fully conformant). Anyway, size
> of "current state" part tells that it is unlikely *minimal* example
> that you tested with "emacs -Q". Even the part received by gmane has
> size of almost 300k.
Right, it was not produced my emacs -Q my bad. Sorry.
>> Now GNU emacs has a bug tracker what can be accessed via debbugs-org and
>> there this problem does not appear.
>> The org mailing list does have a similar bug tracker which is a bit
>> of
>> problem with such a workflow.
> Attachment is available on
> https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87a6j02qf0.fsf@mat.ucm.es/
> so I do not see any problem. Likely nobody explicitly confirmed your
> bug, so it did not appear on https://updates.orgmode.org/ On the other
> hand, a patch appeared quickly enough, so reasons to complain are
> unclear for me.
That is not entirely true, Kevin, said he could not see my attachment
and quickly produced a minimal example himself, that confirmed my bug.
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87pmrupu0s.fsf@gmail.com/
(His message was the reason to bring up that subject)
>> Of course an alternative would be to CC the bug report to the GNU emacs
>> list since org mode is also in the GNU emacs tree, but I am not sure
>> whether this is a good idea.
> I am unsure to which list you are going to send a copy. Emacs-orgmode
> is hosted on gnu.org just as other emacs lists.
To
bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
That one I can access via debbugs-org
That function seems a good compromise: it does not require to be
subscribed to the list, and it does not suffer from gmane's problem.
When I call debbugs-org I do not see my bug, are you saying I should?
>
> Besides lists.gnu.org
> it is archived on public inbox instances and these archives were able
> to parse your message. For issues filed through debbugs.gnu.org
> latency is often higher that for ones sent directly to this list.
> Are there evidences that it was not a rare case when an attachments
> from a messages generated by org-submit-bug-report was lost by gmane
> and change of workflow is really required?
Well one thing I learned is to stick to emacs -Q strictly, but I would
like to know whether debbugs-org could access this bug?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: the GNU bug tracker, use it or have something similar? Gmane might block attachments in bug reports
2021-10-25 17:00 ` Max Nikulin
2021-10-25 19:14 ` Uwe Brauer
2021-10-25 19:15 ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2021-10-25 19:21 ` Uwe Brauer
2021-10-26 16:59 ` Max Nikulin
2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2021-10-25 19:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
>>> "MN" == Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:
> On 25/10/2021 21:21, Uwe Brauer wrote:
>> org-submit-bug-report sends an email to the org-mode mailing list.
>> It
>> turns out, that if you attach a file and later display that message on
>> gmane, as I do in order to keep my email traffic in moderate numbers,
>> then gmane might block that attachment.
Thanks for your detailed answer
> I do not see your attachment on news.gmane.io as well, but it is a
> rare problem. Mostly attachments are received correctly. Moreover, a
> part of your message is truncated. I am unsure whether there is some
> limit for message size or parser was confused by excessive white
> spaces (unsure whether the message was fully conformant). Anyway, size
> of "current state" part tells that it is unlikely *minimal* example
> that you tested with "emacs -Q". Even the part received by gmane has
> size of almost 300k.
Right, it was not produced my emacs -Q my bad. Sorry.
>> Now GNU emacs has a bug tracker what can be accessed via debbugs-org and
>> there this problem does not appear.
>> The org mailing list does have a similar bug tracker which is a bit
>> of
>> problem with such a workflow.
> Attachment is available on
> https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87a6j02qf0.fsf@mat.ucm.es/
> so I do not see any problem. Likely nobody explicitly confirmed your
> bug, so it did not appear on https://updates.orgmode.org/ On the other
> hand, a patch appeared quickly enough, so reasons to complain are
> unclear for me.
That is not entirely true, Kevin, said he could not see my attachment
and quickly produced a minimal example himself, that confirmed my bug.
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87pmrupu0s.fsf@gmail.com/
(His message was the reason to bring up that subject)
>> Of course an alternative would be to CC the bug report to the GNU emacs
>> list since org mode is also in the GNU emacs tree, but I am not sure
>> whether this is a good idea.
> I am unsure to which list you are going to send a copy. Emacs-orgmode
> is hosted on gnu.org just as other emacs lists.
To
bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
That one I can access via debbugs-org
That function seems a good compromise: it does not require to be
subscribed to the list, and it does not suffer from gmane's problem.
When I call debbugs-org I do not see my bug, are you saying I should?
>
> Besides lists.gnu.org
> it is archived on public inbox instances and these archives were able
> to parse your message. For issues filed through debbugs.gnu.org
> latency is often higher that for ones sent directly to this list.
> Are there evidences that it was not a rare case when an attachments
> from a messages generated by org-submit-bug-report was lost by gmane
> and change of workflow is really required?
Well one thing I learned is to stick to emacs -Q strictly, but I would
like to know whether debbugs-org could access this bug?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: the GNU bug tracker, use it or have something similar? Gmane might block attachments in bug reports
2021-10-25 19:21 ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2021-10-26 16:59 ` Max Nikulin
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Max Nikulin @ 2021-10-26 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
On 26/10/2021 02:21, Uwe Brauer wrote:
> Max Nikulin writes:
>> I am unsure to which list you are going to send a copy. Emacs-orgmode
>> is hosted on gnu.org just as other emacs lists.
>
> To bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> That one I can access via debbugs-org
>
> That function seems a good compromise: it does not require to be
> subscribed to the list, and it does not suffer from gmane's problem.
I may be wrong in some minor details, but Emacs bug tracker (among other
GNU projects) resides on https://debbugs.gnu.org/ Its main interface
though is email, but ...@debbugs.gnu.org, not bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. The
latter is just a broadcast notification channel. I do not think,
messages sent directly to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org are forwarded to
debbugs.gnu.org. Sometimes emacs-orgmode is added as Cc address for bugs
tracked by debbugs. In such cases it is better to reply directly to mail
address associated with the bug, not to the mail list, otherwise the
response will not appear in the debbugs archive.
> When I call debbugs-org I do not see my bug, are you saying I should?
You may see your bug on https://updates.orgmode.org/ that is independent
tracker, see e.g. https://list.orgmode.org/87wnmtb7dd.fsf@gnu.org/
However someone should confirm that it is a real bug.
https://list.orgmode.org/87v9kavoms.fsf@gnu.org/
Bastien. Re: issue tracker? Mon, 01 Jun 2020 16:36:59 +0200
> I'd like to keep this mailing list as the central place to discuss
> everything about Org, including bug reports.
I do not know what are the reasons why Bastien prefers to develop
"Woof!" instead of relying on much more powerful debbugs. As to me, for
some reason it requires a bit more time and cognitive efforts to realize
current status of a debbugs issue in comparison to the most of other
trackers. In addition, I do not like that GNU's debbugs instance exposes
contents to general purpose search engines in a form that makes it hard
to provide relevant search results and descriptive summary snippet (due
to some performance reasons). So bugs are often rates much lower than
reddit threads and stackexchange questions.
> Well one thing I learned is to stick to emacs -Q strictly, but I would
> like to know whether debbugs-org could access this bug?
org-submit-bug-report may act better by adding a warning that user may
expose some private information to public and by suggesting -Q if state
size is above some threshold.
-Q is mentioned in almost all sources related to bug reports, e.g.
https://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html (info "(org) Feedback")
debbugs-org is an interface to debbugs, but Org mostly uses mail list
directly and updates.orgmode.org, so the only way to get a bug in
debbugs-org is to send it to debbugs. It is neither forbidden nor
encouraged.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread