Any iPhone devellopers here

Any iPhone devellopers here

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi,

do we have any iPhone developer here on the list who would like to  
listen to my ideas about a (very simple) mobile arm (not version) of  
Org?

- Carsten

Re: Any iPhone devellopers here

[Peter Jones]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> do we have any iPhone developer here on the list who would like to
> listen to my ideas about a (very simple) mobile arm (not version) of
> Org?

I've been thinking about ways to get OrgMode tasks onto my iPhone.  I
haven't written any code yet, but was thinking about writing an
Objective-C library that can parse org files.  The problem, of course,
is dealing with any Lisp, like recurring dates.

I'd be very interested in hearing your ideas Carsten.

-- 
Peter Jones, http://pmade.com
pmade inc.  Louisville, CO US

Re: Re: Any iPhone devellopers here

[Jeff Mickey]

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 18:19, Peter Jones <mlists@pmade.com> wrote:
> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>> do we have any iPhone developer here on the list who would like to
>> listen to my ideas about a (very simple) mobile arm (not version) of
>> Org?
>
> I've been thinking about ways to get OrgMode tasks onto my iPhone.  I
> haven't written any code yet, but was thinking about writing an
> Objective-C library that can parse org files.  The problem, of course,
> is dealing with any Lisp, like recurring dates.
>
> I'd be very interested in hearing your ideas Carsten.

So I had started to write a translator for OrgMode to OmniFocus on the
iPhone, but I never got the WebDAV updates to function properly, and
it didn't sync back (OF -> Org).  This made it basically unusable and
not so hot.

If you jailbreak your phone, you can probably get a lot further on
this project, as you can run any compiled executable that you bless
with `ldid -S filename`.  I'm not sure if anyone has tried compiling
emacs on the iPhone, but I imagine that would be quite a feat in it's
self.  Though it's probably the only way to leverage all your org-mode
elisp.  If you could settle for some subset, you could probably
rewrite what you needed in Obj-C.

Any ideas you have for this I'd appreciate hearing about as well.

  //  jeff

n810.... Re: Re: Any iPhone devellopers here

[Daniel M German]

 Jeff> So I had started to write a translator for OrgMode to OmniFocus on the
 Jeff> iPhone, but I never got the WebDAV updates to function properly, and
 Jeff> it didn't sync back (OF -> Org).  This made it basically unusable and
 Jeff> not so hot.

 Jeff> If you jailbreak your phone, you can probably get a lot further on
 Jeff> this project, as you can run any compiled executable that you bless
 Jeff> with `ldid -S filename`.  I'm not sure if anyone has tried compiling
 Jeff> emacs on the iPhone, but I imagine that would be quite a feat in it's
 Jeff> self.  Though it's probably the only way to leverage all your org-mode
 Jeff> elisp.  If you could settle for some subset, you could probably
 Jeff> rewrite what you needed in Obj-C.

 Jeff> Any ideas you have for this I'd appreciate hearing about as well.


I know this is totally off-topic, but related.

I recently got a N810. The keyboard makes Emacs very usable. I now
have org in it and it is great. I use subversion to syncronize
devices. 

One think I really like is remember mode in it. It is way better to
take notes in remember than in any note taking app.

--dmg




-- 
--
Daniel M. German                  
http://turingmachine.org/
http://silvernegative.com/
dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .

Re: Re: Any iPhone devellopers here

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi Peter, Jeff,

thanks for your reactions.

The idea I am having in mind actually goes back to an old idea by Tim  
O'Callaghan which he sent to emacs-orgmode on April 25, 2006 - oh my,  
is this really more than 2 year ago????

Here is the link to Tims message:

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/139/focus=165

The basic idea is to *give up* on the idea of a mobile version
of Org and to do something different:

1. Get entire Org-files or sections of it onto a mobile device.
    This could be an Org file, or simply an exported agenda list.
    For example, you could automate creation of a number of useful
    on-the-road agenda views, and make sure that these are automatically
    updated on your phone.

2. On the mobile device, use whatever means available to mark entries
    that you have acted upon in some way.  Tim actually had involved
    involved plans to prepend certain letters to headlines, to trigger
    specific actions like switching to a specific TODO state etc.

3. Once synched back to your desktop computer, Emacs would read these
    files and do the required changes in the original Org files.

Tim and I had a few iterations about this, I even wrote
a prototype.  But in the end the project died, I believe mainly because
there was no good way to make sure that Emacs would be able to identify
and find the correct entries.

Tim's proposal has recently crept back into my mind, with two  
modifications:

1. We do now have a system to assign unique IDs to entries, so the
    cross-identification could be made to work.

2. I believe that Tim's idea to actually assign actions is too complex
    and will be hard to implement in a closed way that would not  
constantly
    beg for extension.  Anyway, what if all we do it to record the IDs  
of
    entries that we want to have affected.  To on the device you would  
only
    click/tab an entry and in this way mark it for further attention.
    And then later back at our
    Desktop/Laptop computer, Org will use the list of collected IDs to
    create an agenda view will all entries which were marked while on
    the go.  Then you could go through this list, remember and record
    the actions and enter corresponding notes with the better input
    devices you have available in that environment.

I am not sure if this is a good idea, maybe I am just rambling, or
maybe I should get myself and N810, bite the bullet and cough
up the 300 Eros or so.

But as a poor-men's solution tha could be made to work on
a large number of devices, maybe something like the setup
described above would do the trick?

As  said, I am not sure if this is going anywhere, but comments
are, as always, welcome.

- Carsten

Re: n810.... Re: Re: Any iPhone devellopers here

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi Daniel,

I think your message is not off-topic at all, and reminds me that, of  
course,
any attempt to get limited mobile support is always destined to look  
pale
against a mobile version of Emacs.... :-(

- Carsten

On Oct 8, 2008, at 5:58 AM, Daniel M German wrote:

>
> Jeff> So I had started to write a translator for OrgMode to  
> OmniFocus on the
> Jeff> iPhone, but I never got the WebDAV updates to function  
> properly, and
> Jeff> it didn't sync back (OF -> Org).  This made it basically  
> unusable and
> Jeff> not so hot.
>
> Jeff> If you jailbreak your phone, you can probably get a lot  
> further on
> Jeff> this project, as you can run any compiled executable that you  
> bless
> Jeff> with `ldid -S filename`.  I'm not sure if anyone has tried  
> compiling
> Jeff> emacs on the iPhone, but I imagine that would be quite a feat  
> in it's
> Jeff> self.  Though it's probably the only way to leverage all your  
> org-mode
> Jeff> elisp.  If you could settle for some subset, you could probably
> Jeff> rewrite what you needed in Obj-C.
>
> Jeff> Any ideas you have for this I'd appreciate hearing about as  
> well.
>
>
> I know this is totally off-topic, but related.
>
> I recently got a N810. The keyboard makes Emacs very usable. I now
> have org in it and it is great. I use subversion to syncronize
> devices.
>
> One think I really like is remember mode in it. It is way better to
> take notes in remember than in any note taking app.
>
> --dmg
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> --
> Daniel M. German
> http://turingmachine.org/
> http://silvernegative.com/
> dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
> replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Re: Any iPhone devellopers here

[David Neu]

Hi Carsten,

I'm new to orgmode, and must say that I've found it be an incredibly
intuitive and powerful emacs mode!

When I saw this thread it resonated with my search for a strategy for
doing GTD while using a list app that isn't "mobile".  That is, if you
don't have your list manager with you in different contexts (e.g.
@errands, @phone), it seems "challenging" to work from your lists.
The only context in which I seem to have my lists available is
@computer.  I guess I could print out my lists, check off completed
items or add new items, but this seems suboptimal.

I am a developer, but not an iPhone developer, and had the following
idea.  Suppose you restrict your goal to: have orgmode actions and
appointments available on your mobile device (i.e. iPhone),  and have
these items truly synchronized between orgmode and the iPhone; changes
in orgmode would be reflected on the iPhone and vice versa.

Now, if you use the Calendar Store as the mechanism for exchange (see
http://developer.apple.com/leopard/overview/calendarstore.html), then
in view of

> 1. We do now have a system to assign unique IDs to entries, so the
>   cross-identification could be made to work.

it seems that the goal can be accomplished.

The strategy is based on not trying to get an orgmode app going on a
mobile device, but getting your actions and appoinments synchronized
between orgmode and iCal, and if you have an iPhone, Apple handles the
synchronization between your Mac and your iPhone for  you.  Therefore,
if implemented, the functionality could even be used by orgmode Mac
users without an iPhone.

I hope this reply is on topic, and would be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks for orgmode!

Cheers,
David

Re: n810.... Re: Re: Any iPhone devellopers here

[Daniel M German]

 Carsten> Hi Daniel,
 Carsten> I think your message is not off-topic at all, and reminds me that, of
 Carsten> course,
 Carsten> any attempt to get limited mobile support is always destined to look
 Carsten> pale
 Carsten> against a mobile version of Emacs.... :-(

 Carsten> - Carsten

Here is my current setup and experiences using a Nokia N810.  It might
be interesting to those who are thinking about a mobile version of
org. this might also be useful to those who use org in 2 different
computers.

For an idea of what org looks like in the n810 see:

http://turingmachine.org/~dmg/temp/n810-org.png


The N810 has an integrated keyboard. It makes a big difference with
respect to the N800.

There is no version of emacs with X and hildon support, so this makes
it difficult to use emacs with a stylus (it runs, it is just unusable
in my experience). I run emacs with no x support.

with no-x support the stylus is dead, but on the other hand, the N810
has a keyboard, so you don't miss the stylus except for rapid movement
of the mouse and access to the menus. It _could_ be better, but it is
no show stopper.

The first problem installing emacs in an N810 is its size. You need to
reformat the internal card to ext2 or ext3. Otherwise you would be
eating 1/2 of the internal memory with it.

I run a reduced emacs configuration for the N810. I use a special
.emacs for it. 

I have almost the same org configuration in the n810 as in my
laptop. But I used them in slightly different ways.

I have an org file that is mainly to be edited in the n810. I call it
todo810.org

By dedicating a file mainly to the n810 i simplify editing and
synchronization across computers. Let me explain.

I use svn to synchronize org files across laptop and 810. In general
it works well, but there is always a chance for a conflict. It usually
works well, except when tasks are added in two different computers svn
detects a conflict (they are included exactly in the same area, and
svn does not know which one should go first).

To avoid this problem I have defined one special templates to be used
in the n810. It adds tasks to the todo810.org file instead of my
default org file. 

I find that it is more important to add tasks in the N810 than to
organize them. So my priority is to add them, even if they are badly
organized. I am more effective organizing them in my laptop. 

Several times a week, I connect my n810 to my home network, I login to
it (via ssh) and I synchronize with my svn repository. If any conflict
arises I can run emacs in an xterm (from my laptop) where I can easily
and rapidly solve any conflict.

On my N810 I can easily run remember, or the agenda view of org. They
are very easy to use with its keyboard, which has a ctrl-key, but lacks
alt, so I have to use ESC, which is bound to the "back arrow" in the
front of the device. The Tab key does not exist in the keyboard, but
it is available in the display in the osso-terminal status line.

I am not a person that requires TODOS to be up-to-date to the minute. 
Perhaps what I like the most about my n810 is how simple it is to get
info into my laptop. I can easily use remember to write a note, and
I don't have to use a weird app/format than then I have to copy or
retype into my usual notes.

Among the main disadvantage of my setup is that my svn repository
lives in my laptop. This means I can't easily synchronize it on the
go. I need both devices connected to the network, and then play with
the hosts file in the n810 to be able to force the IP of the
repository. Another option i use is to create an ad-hoc network.

Not ideal, but doable. I guess I could  move it to a
permanently connected computer, but I like my laptop to be independent
of the network for most of my needs.

I think that emacs + xournal + maemo mapper/Nokia map are the killer
apps for this device. I frequently wonder if it might be possible to
read mail using gnus using this device :)

Finally, the font size is adjustable. 

-- 
--
Daniel M. German                  
http://turingmachine.org/
http://silvernegative.com/
dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .

Re: n810.... Re: Re: Any iPhone devellopers here

[Thomas Baumann]

Hi

maybe you interested to test emacs23 for N810? I have been using the CVS
version with X-support since I got my N810 (the main reason to buy the
gadget anyway) together with org-mode. I will update emacs23 every now
and then, and maybe at some time there will be hildon support :-)

http://www.ws.chemie.tu-muenchen.de/groups/hydrogeo/tools/

Sychronisation is with unison (same page)

Cheers
Thomas

Re: Re: Any iPhone devellopers here

[David Neu]

Hi,

Just thought I'd see if there were any reactions, positive or
negative, to this idea.

Cheers,
David

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:45 AM, David Neu <david@davidneu.com> wrote:
> Hi Carsten,
>
> I'm new to orgmode, and must say that I've found it be an incredibly
> intuitive and powerful emacs mode!
>
> When I saw this thread it resonated with my search for a strategy for
> doing GTD while using a list app that isn't "mobile".  That is, if you
> don't have your list manager with you in different contexts (e.g.
> @errands, @phone), it seems "challenging" to work from your lists.
> The only context in which I seem to have my lists available is
> @computer.  I guess I could print out my lists, check off completed
> items or add new items, but this seems suboptimal.
>
> I am a developer, but not an iPhone developer, and had the following
> idea.  Suppose you restrict your goal to: have orgmode actions and
> appointments available on your mobile device (i.e. iPhone),  and have
> these items truly synchronized between orgmode and the iPhone; changes
> in orgmode would be reflected on the iPhone and vice versa.
>
> Now, if you use the Calendar Store as the mechanism for exchange (see
> http://developer.apple.com/leopard/overview/calendarstore.html), then
> in view of
>
>> 1. We do now have a system to assign unique IDs to entries, so the
>>   cross-identification could be made to work.
>
> it seems that the goal can be accomplished.
>
> The strategy is based on not trying to get an orgmode app going on a
> mobile device, but getting your actions and appoinments synchronized
> between orgmode and iCal, and if you have an iPhone, Apple handles the
> synchronization between your Mac and your iPhone for  you.  Therefore,
> if implemented, the functionality could even be used by orgmode Mac
> users without an iPhone.
>
> I hope this reply is on topic, and would be interested in your thoughts.
>
> Thanks for orgmode!
>
> Cheers,
> David
>