org-mode and htmlslidy

org-mode and htmlslidy

[Dov Grobgeld]

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In looking for the perfect slide show generation from org-mode I have so far
checked the following and found that they have serious problems:

   - epresenter - Keyboard gets stuck, little control over display.
   - org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a long
   slides I would like to scroll

Looking around the net I found the following javascript that seems that it
could do the job:

http://www.w3.org/Talks/Tools/Slidy2/#%283%29

How difficult would it be to connect it to org-mode? Am I right that it
would simply be a relatively small rewrite of org-s5.el?

Regards,
Dov

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Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Christian Moe]

On 11/11/10 1:48 PM, Dov Grobgeld wrote:

>     * org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a
>       long slides I would like to scroll

You can toggle s5 between slide view and ordinary web page view in the 
midst of a presentation.

This also helps the audience realize that you're using something /way/ 
cooler than Powerpoint...
:)

Yours,
Christian

Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Dov Grobgeld]

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Thanks. Didn't know that. But it seems like you are then placed in the
beginning of the html-page and have to search for the position of the slide
that you were at. Not something that you are likely to want to do in the
middle of a presentation. (This might make the audience long for
PowerPoint...)

Regards,
Dov

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:08, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote:

> On 11/11/10 1:48 PM, Dov Grobgeld wrote:
>
>     * org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a
>>
>>      long slides I would like to scroll
>>
>
> You can toggle s5 between slide view and ordinary web page view in the
> midst of a presentation.
>
> This also helps the audience realize that you're using something /way/
> cooler than Powerpoint...
> :)
>
> Yours,
> Christian
>
>

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Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[John Hendy]

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On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com>wrote:

> In looking for the perfect slide show generation from org-mode I have so
> far checked the following and found that they have serious problems:
>
>    - epresenter - Keyboard gets stuck, little control over display.
>    - org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a long
>    slides I would like to scroll
>
> What about beamer? To date I haven't found anything I like as much! It just
seems to do about everything... even if that means hunting down the
occasional obscure code to force it to do my will!

You can combine it with impressive! and do some fantastic things during
presentations: http://impressive.sourceforge.net/


John

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Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Dov Grobgeld]

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Does beamer and impressive support scrolling? I assume not as beamer is
LaTeX based which also uses fixed paper size. The paradigm of fixed size
slides is imho a remnant from a time when slides were "hardware" and placed
on a overhead projector. I see no reason why shouldn't be able to scroll a
long slide during a presentation if you can't fit it all on a single screen
full.

Regards,
Dov

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:17, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> In looking for the perfect slide show generation from org-mode I have so
>> far checked the following and found that they have serious problems:
>>
>>    - epresenter - Keyboard gets stuck, little control over display.
>>    - org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a long
>>    slides I would like to scroll
>>
>> What about beamer? To date I haven't found anything I like as much! It
> just seems to do about everything... even if that means hunting down the
> occasional obscure code to force it to do my will!
>
> You can combine it with impressive! and do some fantastic things during
> presentations: http://impressive.sourceforge.net/
>
>
> John
>

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Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[John Hendy]

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On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com>wrote:

> Does beamer and impressive support scrolling? I assume not as beamer is
> LaTeX based which also uses fixed paper size. The paradigm of fixed size
> slides is imho a remnant from a time when slides were "hardware" and placed
> on a overhead projector. I see no reason why shouldn't be able to scroll a
> long slide during a presentation if you can't fit it all on a single screen
> full.
>
>
Hmmm. Not on LInux right now -- I'll have to check. I know it zooms in on an
area but not sure how it would handle a bigger-than-full-screen slide. My
guess is that it would scale it to fit the page which would obviously not be
what you want.

What about prezi, then? No orgmode integration but seems to be the least
"powerpoint-ish" and reminiscent of the "olden days"? http://prezi.com/


John


> Regards,
> Dov
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:17, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> In looking for the perfect slide show generation from org-mode I have so
>>> far checked the following and found that they have serious problems:
>>>
>>>    - epresenter - Keyboard gets stuck, little control over display.
>>>    - org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a long
>>>    slides I would like to scroll
>>>
>>> What about beamer? To date I haven't found anything I like as much! It
>> just seems to do about everything... even if that means hunting down the
>> occasional obscure code to force it to do my will!
>>
>> You can combine it with impressive! and do some fantastic things during
>> presentations: http://impressive.sourceforge.net/
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>
>

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Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Eric S Fraga]

Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com> writes:

> Does beamer and impressive support scrolling? I assume not as beamer
> is LaTeX based which also uses fixed paper size. The paradigm of fixed
> size slides is imho a remnant from a time when slides were "hardware"
> and placed on a overhead projector. I see no reason why shouldn't be
> able to scroll a long slide during a presentation if you can't fit it
> all on a single screen full.

I don't believe beamer supports scrolling.  However, it does support
automatic breaking of pages into multiple slides and, arguably (;-),
having to scroll a slide is disruptive...

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 23.2.1
: using Org-mode version 7.3 (release_7.3.49.g0239)

Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Dov Grobgeld]

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On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:38, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> What about prezi, then? No orgmode integration but seems to be the least
> "powerpoint-ish" and reminiscent of the "olden days"? http://prezi.com/
>

You've got any idea of how to conceptually map a orgmode document into the
non-linear mode of prezi?  It certainly supports scrolling, though.

Dov

>
>
> John
>
>
>> Regards,
>> Dov
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:17, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> In looking for the perfect slide show generation from org-mode I have so
>>>> far checked the following and found that they have serious problems:
>>>>
>>>>    - epresenter - Keyboard gets stuck, little control over display.
>>>>    - org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a
>>>>    long slides I would like to scroll
>>>>
>>>> What about beamer? To date I haven't found anything I like as much! It
>>> just seems to do about everything... even if that means hunting down the
>>> occasional obscure code to force it to do my will!
>>>
>>> You can combine it with impressive! and do some fantastic things during
>>> presentations: http://impressive.sourceforge.net/
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[John Hendy]

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On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:38, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> What about prezi, then? No orgmode integration but seems to be the least
>> "powerpoint-ish" and reminiscent of the "olden days"? http://prezi.com/
>>
>
> You've got any idea of how to conceptually map a orgmode document into the
> non-linear mode of prezi?  It certainly supports scrolling, though.
>

Not really! Though I wouldn't be surprised if most people use prezi more for
the animations/transitions/uniqueness than really using the non-linearity.
Does that make sense? As in, I know you can go to "slide 1" (or zoom in on
some area as your "slide 1"), move on to some other things and then quickly
whip back to slide 1 as you say, "Now, remember this information I spoke of
earlier? Let's look at how that's affected by what I just referred to" or
something like that.

I guess I'm taking "non-linear" to mean how you navigate through the
information, not solely the fact that prezi is on a huge canvas and thus not
a sequence (linear) of slides.

If you just mean the ability to revisit things... I think there should
definitely be a way to put your presentation together in advance so you
revisit various things and make the appearance of non-linearity. But it will
still be fullscreen slides showing one after another, not twirling and
whirling around a canvas.


>
> Dov
>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dov
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:17, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In looking for the perfect slide show generation from org-mode I have
>>>>> so far checked the following and found that they have serious problems:
>>>>>
>>>>>    - epresenter - Keyboard gets stuck, little control over display.
>>>>>    - org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a
>>>>>    long slides I would like to scroll
>>>>>
>>>>> What about beamer? To date I haven't found anything I like as much! It
>>>> just seems to do about everything... even if that means hunting down the
>>>> occasional obscure code to force it to do my will!
>>>>
>>>> You can combine it with impressive! and do some fantastic things during
>>>> presentations: http://impressive.sourceforge.net/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Jeff Horn]

If you want scrolling, why don't you simply make a presentation using
HTML with Org-mode? I mean, just show someone a webpage or two?

Please understand I'm only curious, not hostile. To me, I just don't
see why you'd want to combine presentations and scrolling... to me,
the advantage of presentations is their fixed size. It forces me to
focus on key points due to the limited real estate on each slide.

Why not just make an outline in HTML (with all the pretty charts and
graphs inserted) and project your talking points on a screen?

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does beamer and impressive support scrolling? I assume not as beamer is
> LaTeX based which also uses fixed paper size. The paradigm of fixed size
> slides is imho a remnant from a time when slides were "hardware" and placed
> on a overhead projector. I see no reason why shouldn't be able to scroll a
> long slide during a presentation if you can't fit it all on a single screen
> full.
>
> Regards,
> Dov
>
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:17, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> In looking for the perfect slide show generation from org-mode I have so
>>> far checked the following and found that they have serious problems:
>>>
>>> epresenter - Keyboard gets stuck, little control over display.
>>> org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a long
>>> slides I would like to scroll
>>
>> What about beamer? To date I haven't found anything I like as much! It
>> just seems to do about everything... even if that means hunting down the
>> occasional obscure code to force it to do my will!
>> You can combine it with impressive! and do some fantastic things during
>> presentations: http://impressive.sourceforge.net/
>>
>> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>



-- 
Jeffrey Horn
Graduate Lecturer and PhD Student in Economics
George Mason University

(704) 271-4797
jhorn@gmu.edu
jrhorn424@gmail.com

http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/

Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Dov Grobgeld]

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In principle I agree with you 99percent of the time, as descrete slides define the pace of the lecture, but at the same time I'm against arbitrary limitations. And not being able to scroll is imho such a limitation. Here are a couple of examples that I believe justifies scrolling:

* A code listing. Splitting up a listing between two pages looses contents.
* A tall graph, e.g a flow chart.

In this sence I think that htmlslidy is better than s5.
-- 
Sent from my Nokia N900

----- Original message -----
> If you want scrolling, why don't you simply make a presentation using
> HTML with Org-mode? I mean, just show someone a webpage or two?
> 
> Please understand I'm only curious, not hostile. To me, I just don't
> see why you'd want to combine presentations and scrolling... to me,
> the advantage of presentations is their fixed size. It forces me to
> focus on key points due to the limited real estate on each slide.
> 
> Why not just make an outline in HTML (with all the pretty charts and
> graphs inserted) and project your talking points on a screen?
> 
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Does beamer and impressive support scrolling? I assume not as beamer is
> > LaTeX based which also uses fixed paper size. The paradigm of fixed
> > size slides is imho a remnant from a time when slides were "hardware"
> > and placed on a overhead projector. I see no reason why shouldn't be
> > able to scroll a long slide during a presentation if you can't fit it
> > all on a single screen full.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Dov
> > 
> > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:17, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Dov Grobgeld
> > > <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > In looking for the perfect slide show generation from org-mode I
> > > > have so far checked the following and found that they have serious
> > > > problems:
> > > > 
> > > > epresenter - Keyboard gets stuck, little control over display.
> > > > org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a long
> > > > slides I would like to scroll
> > > 
> > > What about beamer? To date I haven't found anything I like as much!
> > > It just seems to do about everything... even if that means hunting
> > > down the occasional obscure code to force it to do my will!
> > > You can combine it with impressive! and do some fantastic things
> > > during presentations: http://impressive.sourceforge.net/
> > > 
> > > John
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeffrey Horn
> Graduate Lecturer and PhD Student in Economics
> George Mason University
> 
> (704) 271-4797
> jhorn@gmu.edu
> jrhorn424@gmail.com
> 
> http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/


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Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Jeff Horn]

> * A code listing. Splitting up a listing between two pages looses contents.
> * A tall graph, e.g a flow chart.

These are great examples of the point of being able to scroll. In
fact, I haven't needed to do either of these yet in my lectures, so I
didn't realize the value of scrolling.

But if scrolling and zooming are essential... well, those are already
built into the browser, so why not just use HTML (or org-mode
translated to HTML)?

You can always break up a "slide" by creating different pages and link
them all together. I guess linking is the value added of something
like slidy...

-- 
Jeffrey Horn
Graduate Lecturer and PhD Student in Economics
George Mason University

(704) 271-4797
jhorn@gmu.edu
jrhorn424@gmail.com

http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/

Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Dov Grobgeld]

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I tried warping s5-org this morning into slidy-org and I finally got it to
work with one small remaining problem. In the resulting HTML I have:

<div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">

which I want to change to:

<div id="outline-container-2" class="class">

What is the best way of changing that? I saw that s5-org is using some
jquery rewrites of the xml tree. Is that the best way of solving it? Is
there a possibility of doing this change directly in org-mode without
javascript?

Thanks!
Dov

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 04:27, Jeff Horn <jrhorn424@gmail.com> wrote:

> > * A code listing. Splitting up a listing between two pages looses
> contents.
> > * A tall graph, e.g a flow chart.
>
> These are great examples of the point of being able to scroll. In
> fact, I haven't needed to do either of these yet in my lectures, so I
> didn't realize the value of scrolling.
>
> But if scrolling and zooming are essential... well, those are already
> built into the browser, so why not just use HTML (or org-mode
> translated to HTML)?
>
> You can always break up a "slide" by creating different pages and link
> them all together. I guess linking is the value added of something
> like slidy...
>
> --
> Jeffrey Horn
> Graduate Lecturer and PhD Student in Economics
> George Mason University
>
> (704) 271-4797
> jhorn@gmu.edu
> jrhorn424@gmail.com
>
> http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/
>

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Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Sebastian Rose]

Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com> writes:
> I tried warping s5-org this morning into slidy-org and I finally got it to
> work with one small remaining problem. In the resulting HTML I have:
>
> <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>
> which I want to change to:
>
> <div id="outline-container-2" class="class">
>
> What is the best way of changing that? I saw that s5-org is using some
> jquery rewrites of the xml tree. Is that the best way of solving it? Is
> there a possibility of doing this change directly in org-mode without
> javascript?
>
> Thanks!
> Dov

The jQuery way:


#+STYLE: <script type="text/javascript">
#+STYLE:  $(document).ready(function(){
#+STYLE:      $(div.outline-2).each(function(){
#+STYLE:        this.addClass("MY-CLASS");
#+STYLE:        this.removeClass("outline-2");})});
#+STYLE: </script>



http://api.jquery.com/browser/ is your friend ;)


HTH,

  Sebastian

Re: org-mode and htmlslidy

[Peter Frings]

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On 11 Nov 2010, at 14:17, John Hendy wrote:

> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Dov Grobgeld <dov.grobgeld@gmail.com> wrote:
> In looking for the perfect slide show generation from org-mode I have so far checked the following and found that they have serious problems:
> epresenter - Keyboard gets stuck, little control over display.
> org-s5 - No support for pages overflowing, e.g. when showing a long slides I would like to scroll
> What about beamer? To date I haven't found anything I like as much! It just seems to do about everything... even if that means hunting down the occasional obscure code to force it to do my will!
> 
> You can combine it with impressive! and do some fantastic things during presentations: http://impressive.sourceforge.net/


I've been using mindmaps as a presentation tool and have had very positive reactions from the audience.

- The overview is almost always in sight.
- It's easy to move to the next topic (you need software that can collapse and expand subtrees, most of them do)
- You can leave two or more topics open (depends on the size of course)
- It's easy to go back to a previous point.
- You can edit things if needed.
- It's different.

OK, that last point might not be a real benefit, but it is often refreshing to the audience, and it grabs the attention pretty well :-)

Cheers,
Peter.

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