Variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil

Variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil

[pjmtavares]

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Hi everyone,

It's the first time I'm giving any feedback on org-mode, so first of all I would like to congratulate the original creator and all contributors on a very interesting and useful work.

I've discovered org-mode only a couple of weeks ago and was intrigued enough to restart using emacs, after several years away from it! I've been studying Org's documentation and tutorials, and started using it to help me manage my relocation from Brazil to Italy.

What I am reporting, technically, is a feature: the fact that variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil. But considering how easy this makes to lose a whole subtree of data, especially for a newcomer to org-mode, I think it should be considered a serious bug. As a matter of fact, I am very surprised that C-k would be considered an admissible alternative to C-c C-x C-w/M-w, as a way to kill a subtree!

I propose that 'org-ctr-k-protect-subtree' is made to default to 't' ASAP (already costumized it in that way on my setup), and that the behavior of C-k on headings is made consistent: kill to the end of line, regardless of the visibility of the subtree.


   Best regards,

      Paulo Tavares.
 		 	   		  

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Re: Variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil

[Noorul Islam K M]

<pjmtavares@hotmail.com> writes:

> Hi everyone,
>
> It's the first time I'm giving any feedback on org-mode, so first of all I would like to congratulate the original creator and all contributors on a very interesting and useful work.
>
> I've discovered org-mode only a couple of weeks ago and was intrigued enough to restart using emacs, after several years away from it! I've been studying Org's documentation and tutorials, and started using it to help me manage my relocation from Brazil to Italy.
>
> What I am reporting, technically, is a feature: the fact that variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil. But considering how easy this makes to lose a whole subtree of data, especially for a newcomer to org-mode, I think it should be considered a serious bug. As a matter of fact, I am very surprised that C-k would be considered an admissible alternative to C-c C-x C-w/M-w, as a way to kill a subtree!
>
> I propose that 'org-ctr-k-protect-subtree' is made to default to 't' ASAP (already costumized it in that way on my setup), and that the behavior of C-k on headings is made consistent: kill to the end of line, regardless of the visibility of the subtree.
>

I slightly disagree here. Most of the time I definitely want the entire
subtree to go away. I think this is the beauty of outline mode. 

Thanks and Regards
Noorul

Re: Re: Variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil

[Alan L Tyree]

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 11:57:15 +0530
Noorul Islam K M <noorul@noorul.com> wrote:

> <pjmtavares@hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > It's the first time I'm giving any feedback on org-mode, so first
> > of all I would like to congratulate the original creator and all
> > contributors on a very interesting and useful work.
> >
> > I've discovered org-mode only a couple of weeks ago and was
> > intrigued enough to restart using emacs, after several years away
> > from it! I've been studying Org's documentation and tutorials, and
> > started using it to help me manage my relocation from Brazil to
> > Italy.
> >
> > What I am reporting, technically, is a feature: the fact that
> > variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil. But
> > considering how easy this makes to lose a whole subtree of data,
> > especially for a newcomer to org-mode, I think it should be
> > considered a serious bug. As a matter of fact, I am very surprised
> > that C-k would be considered an admissible alternative to C-c C-x
> > C-w/M-w, as a way to kill a subtree!
> >
> > I propose that 'org-ctr-k-protect-subtree' is made to default to
> > 't' ASAP (already costumized it in that way on my setup), and that
> > the behavior of C-k on headings is made consistent: kill to the end
> > of line, regardless of the visibility of the subtree.
> >
> 
> I slightly disagree here. Most of the time I definitely want the
> entire subtree to go away. I think this is the beauty of outline
> mode. 
> 
> Thanks and Regards
> Noorul

I agree with the original poster. It's true that experienced users
"want the entire subtree to go away", but it is going to be one hell of
a bit surprise for novices. Gurus can set this variable (and any other)
to suit their needs, but org-mode ought to work out-of-the-box in a way
that protects us kids.

Thanks for a terrific product!

Alan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> 


-- 
Alan L Tyree                    http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206

Re: Re: Variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil

[Carsten Dominik]

On Nov 3, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Noorul Islam K M wrote:

> <pjmtavares@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> It's the first time I'm giving any feedback on org-mode, so first  
>> of all I would like to congratulate the original creator and all  
>> contributors on a very interesting and useful work.
>>
>> I've discovered org-mode only a couple of weeks ago and was  
>> intrigued enough to restart using emacs, after several years away  
>> from it! I've been studying Org's documentation and tutorials, and  
>> started using it to help me manage my relocation from Brazil to  
>> Italy.
>>
>> What I am reporting, technically, is a feature: the fact that  
>> variable 'org-ctrl-k-protect-subtree' defaults to nil. But  
>> considering how easy this makes to lose a whole subtree of data,  
>> especially for a newcomer to org-mode, I think it should be  
>> considered a serious bug. As a matter of fact, I am very surprised  
>> that C-k would be considered an admissible alternative to C-c C-x C- 
>> w/M-w, as a way to kill a subtree!
>>
>> I propose that 'org-ctr-k-protect-subtree' is made to default to  
>> 't' ASAP (already costumized it in that way on my setup), and that  
>> the behavior of C-k on headings is made consistent: kill to the end  
>> of line, regardless of the visibility of the subtree.
>>
>
> I slightly disagree here. Most of the time I definitely want the  
> entire
> subtree to go away. I think this is the beauty of outline mode.

I agree with Norul.  C-k kills an entire visible line, and that
line has ... ellispes and therefore *contains* the folded text.
Just killing the headline would leave ... on a line by its own,
a bad state which is not good to have. This change would also
make the behavior inconsistent with other Emacs modes and behavior.

So we will keep the current default - but feel free to submit a
patch to documentation or a tutorial to points out this issue
to beginners.

Greetings.

- Carsten