From: John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com>
To: "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>,
Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl>
Subject: Re: Org Tutorials need more structure
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 19:29:26 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+M2ft9bph7RiTmYYQrSPv7aih5D=4O623sZtGhZqd4YOT0WQA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m1ob7c34q4.fsf@poto.myhome.westell.com>
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
> Aloha John, Marcin, and Charles,
>
> Yes, I completely agree with you. Apologies if my remarks were taken to
> be exclusionary in any way. They weren't intended to be. The diversity
> of the Org-mode community is one of its great strengths.
>
I don't take them as exclusionary, just didn't want to see folks going
down a rabbit hole that diverges from the original intent :)
> My comments were intended to be ideas on how we might introduce Org-mode
> to a wider audience.
>
> In this vein, I think it would be useful to have a brief statement about
> Org-mode that gives the interested reader from any background a good
> feel for the scope of Org-mode and how it presents itself to the user.
> I don't think the current statements about what Org-mode "is" do this
> very effectively, though they might have done so in the past.
>
Absolutely love that, and this puts some of your earlier comments in
perspective -- you're looking for the 30sec elevator pitch for
Org-mode, and saying "this outline-y task manager" is not cutting it.
John
> The "research programming interface" is meant to encompass situations
> where all of the software's major components are put to use and thus to
> indicate the software's scope. The bit about scientists likely needs
> some qualifications to be absolutely true, but it also prepares the
> reader for an interface of a particular kind, one that is logical and
> complex rather than "intuitive". The core values bit for me helps
> distinguish the Org-mode community from innumerable others we all deal
> with every day.
>
> There are probably better ways to give the novice a sense of the
> Org-mode experience, but these are the things that stand out for me.
>
> All the best,
> Tom
>
> John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
>>> Dnia 2013-09-28, o godz. 16:50:09
>>> Charles Millar <millarc@verizon.net> napisał(a):
>>>
>>>> On 9/28/2013 3:52 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
>>>> > Aloha Carsten,
>>>> >
>>>> snip
>>>> > First, I think that most statements about "what Org-mode is" are
>>>> > outdated. Many of them are quite good, but they represent the
>>>> > previous state of an evolving system and so fail to capture the
>>>> > full scope. To my mind, Org-mode is a "research programming
>>>> > interface" written by and for scientists who take very seriously
>>>> > certain core values of the scientific enterprise--reproducibility,
>>>> > open access, and open source (a partial list).
>>>> Strongly disagree with the sentiment. My undergraduate degree may
>>>> gave been Physics, but I work as a freelance paralegal. I use Org
>>>> Mode for project (file) planning, scheduling, drafting documents,
>>>> etc. Also, I believe that there are some very active participants on
>>>> this list who are not scientists and have made great contributions.
>>>
>>> +1. Although I'm also a scientist (mathematics), I used Org-mode /once/
>>> for science, and it turned out that I felt very much constrained and
>>> quickly got back to LaTeX, where I felt much more comfortable.
>>> http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
>>> Adam Mickiewicz University
>>>
>>
>> This is starting to remind me of bike-shedding. Org-mode is a toolbox
>> providing various things that can work toward whatever end one wants.
>> It's agnostic to field. It doesn't really matter what the end uses are
>> -- Org-mode "is" what functions it provides. How those are combined by
>> others in various fields, lines of work, or so on are simply
>> illustrations of it's capabilities with respect to neat ways of
>> combining various aspects of what Org "is."
>>
>> Thus, I wouldn't try to pitch these things one way or another ("Org is
>> great for paralegals" or "Org is the answer for those doing
>> re-producible research"); I'd simply list what it does as what is "is"
>> and what it can be used "for" as a way to entice new users and help
>> get into the top results of some google searches for
>> tools/solutions/etc..
>>
>> It seems we all get what it really "is," (TODOs/agenda, universal
>> markdown -> export to tons of formats, allowing mixing of
>> prose/code/results, and so on), but are sort of trying to lay claim to
>> why these tools make it best suited toward some particular field.
>>
>> Whether you use one of Org's features or all of them, it is what it is
>> and this can be highlighted in a neat manner and made appealing to
>> those looking for help in these relevant areas of life.
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>
> --
> Thomas S. Dye
> http://www.tsdye.com
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-09-29 0:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 44+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-09-28 6:11 Org Tutorials need more structure Carsten Dominik
2013-09-28 7:22 ` Joseph Vidal-Rosset
2013-09-28 8:37 ` Marcin Borkowski
2013-09-28 10:30 ` Suvayu Ali
2013-09-28 11:59 ` Joseph Vidal-Rosset
2013-09-28 12:36 ` Eric Schulte
2013-09-28 13:10 ` Joseph Vidal-Rosset
2013-09-28 16:02 ` Suvayu Ali
2013-09-28 17:19 ` Joseph Vidal-Rosset
2013-10-01 7:59 ` Eric S Fraga
2013-10-01 20:34 ` David Rogers
2013-10-01 21:00 ` Marcin Borkowski
2013-09-28 8:48 ` Marcin Borkowski
2013-09-28 10:09 ` Carsten Dominik
2013-09-28 14:26 ` Charles Millar
2013-09-28 16:35 ` Carsten Dominik
2013-09-28 17:14 ` Ian Barton
2013-09-28 17:43 ` Marcin Borkowski
2013-09-28 17:48 ` Carsten Dominik
2013-09-28 19:06 ` Ramon Diaz-Uriarte
2013-09-28 19:52 ` Thomas S. Dye
2013-09-28 20:50 ` Charles Millar
2013-09-28 21:31 ` Marcin Borkowski
2013-09-28 21:52 ` John Hendy
2013-09-28 23:14 ` Charles Millar
2013-09-28 23:29 ` Thomas S. Dye
2013-09-29 0:29 ` John Hendy [this message]
2013-09-29 7:28 ` Suvayu Ali
2013-09-30 8:04 ` Alan Schmitt
2013-09-30 17:01 ` Eric S Fraga
2013-09-30 18:36 ` Peter Neilson
2013-09-30 21:07 ` Eduardo Ochs
2013-10-01 8:52 ` Michael Brand
2013-10-01 5:34 ` Suvayu Ali
2013-10-01 8:55 ` Marcin Borkowski
2013-10-01 12:40 ` Joseph Vidal-Rosset
2013-09-30 17:56 ` Thomas S. Dye
2013-09-29 8:44 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2013-09-29 15:31 ` Matt Price
2013-09-30 7:25 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2013-10-01 14:08 ` William Denton
2013-10-02 1:10 ` M
2013-10-02 18:06 ` Alan E. Davis
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-09-29 16:43 Rustom Mody
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