* TODO items in lists (not headings) @ 2014-09-16 20:21 Gary Oberbrunner 2014-09-16 20:32 ` Tory S. Anderson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Gary Oberbrunner @ 2014-09-16 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Orgmode Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 323 bytes --] Is there any way to have TODO items in bullet lists rather than headings: * Meeting report ** Meeting 1 - a thing that happened - another thing that happened - TODO: email everyone about all the things - some more things that happened org-mode seems to only allow TODO in headings as far as I can tell. -- Gary [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 481 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: TODO items in lists (not headings) 2014-09-16 20:21 TODO items in lists (not headings) Gary Oberbrunner @ 2014-09-16 20:32 ` Tory S. Anderson 2014-09-16 22:39 ` Gary Oberbrunner 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Tory S. Anderson @ 2014-09-16 20:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gary Oberbrunner; +Cc: Orgmode Mailing List Does the "- [ ]" form not work for you? They are generally considered the equivalent in my experience. C-c checks them. Gary Oberbrunner <garyo@oberbrunner.com> writes: > Is there any way to have TODO items in bullet lists rather than headings: > > * Meeting report > ** Meeting 1 > - a thing that happened > - another thing that happened > - TODO: email everyone about all the things > - some more things that happened > > org-mode seems to only allow TODO in headings as far as I can tell. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: TODO items in lists (not headings) 2014-09-16 20:32 ` Tory S. Anderson @ 2014-09-16 22:39 ` Gary Oberbrunner 2014-09-17 3:48 ` Thomas S. Dye 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Gary Oberbrunner @ 2014-09-16 22:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Tory S. Anderson; +Cc: Orgmode Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1693 bytes --] [Sorry, I'm going to mess up the quoting here because I replied to Tory, not the list. - gco] On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Tory S. Anderson <torys.anderson@gmail.com> wrote: > Does the "- [ ]" form not work for you? They are generally considered the > equivalent in my experience. C-c checks them. > > Gary Oberbrunner <garyo@oberbrunner.com> writes: > > > Is there any way to have TODO items in bullet lists rather than headings: > > > > * Meeting report > > ** Meeting 1 > > - a thing that happened > > - another thing that happened > > - TODO: email everyone about all the things > > - some more things that happened > > > > org-mode seems to only allow TODO in headings as far as I can tell. > Gary replied: Hi Tory; I don't think checkboxes (- [ ]) are the same as todo items. They don't show up with C-c / t or in the global TODO list, you can't use regular todo workflows. Tory: Ah; Yeah, you're right. You have a different work flow than I do with TODO items. What's your reason for not using TODO items themselves? Gary: My reason for not using TODO is just that it'd be ugly and confusing to put a heading in the middle of a list. Compare this: * Meeting report ** Meeting 1 - a thing that happened - another thing that happened - TODO: email everyone about all the things - some more things that happened to this: * Meeting report ** Meeting 1 - a thing that happened - another thing that happened ***TODO: email everyone about all the things - some more things that happened Tory: Perfect sense; yeah, TODO headers have a tendency to clobber later stuff, and list stuff doesn't make it into the workflow. Makes good sense. -- Gary [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3289 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: TODO items in lists (not headings) 2014-09-16 22:39 ` Gary Oberbrunner @ 2014-09-17 3:48 ` Thomas S. Dye 2014-09-17 12:45 ` Gary Oberbrunner 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2014-09-17 3:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gary Oberbrunner; +Cc: Orgmode Mailing List Aloha Gary, Gary Oberbrunner <garyo@oberbrunner.com> writes: > Gary: > My reason for not using TODO is just that it'd be ugly and confusing to > put a heading in the middle of a list. > > Compare this: > * Meeting report > ** Meeting 1 > - a thing that happened > - another thing that happened > - TODO: email everyone about all the things > - some more things that happened > > to this: > * Meeting report > ** Meeting 1 > - a thing that happened > - another thing that happened > ***TODO: email everyone about all the things > - some more things that happened One solution is to use a capture template for TODO items and then refile them. I picked this up from Bernt Hansen and like it a lot: http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Capture hth, Tom -- Thomas S. Dye http://www.tsdye.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: TODO items in lists (not headings) 2014-09-17 3:48 ` Thomas S. Dye @ 2014-09-17 12:45 ` Gary Oberbrunner 2014-09-18 0:41 ` Nick Dokos 2014-09-18 16:23 ` TODO items in lists (not headings) Subhan Michael Tindall 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Gary Oberbrunner @ 2014-09-17 12:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Orgmode Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1062 bytes --] On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote: > Aloha Gary, > > Gary Oberbrunner <garyo@oberbrunner.com> writes: > > > Gary: > > My reason for not using TODO is just that it'd be ugly and confusing to > > put a heading in the middle of a list. > > > > Compare this: > > * Meeting report > > ** Meeting 1 > > - a thing that happened > > - another thing that happened > > - TODO: email everyone about all the things > > - some more things that happened > > > > to this: > > * Meeting report > > ** Meeting 1 > > - a thing that happened > > - another thing that happened > > ***TODO: email everyone about all the things > > - some more things that happened > > One solution is to use a capture template for TODO items and then refile > them. I picked this up from Bernt Hansen and like it a lot: > > http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Capture Wow, that guy is serious! I don't think his setup solves what I'm looking for, but there is so much great stuff in there it'll take me weeks to check it all out. -- Gary [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1712 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: TODO items in lists (not headings) 2014-09-17 12:45 ` Gary Oberbrunner @ 2014-09-18 0:41 ` Nick Dokos 2014-11-21 4:19 ` Bernt Hansen's rene 2014-09-18 16:23 ` TODO items in lists (not headings) Subhan Michael Tindall 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Nick Dokos @ 2014-09-18 0:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Gary Oberbrunner <garyo@oberbrunner.com> writes: > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote: > > Aloha Gary, > > Gary Oberbrunner <garyo@oberbrunner.com> writes: > > > Gary: > > My reason for not using TODO is just that it'd be ugly and confusing to > > put a heading in the middle of a list. > > > > Compare this: > > * Meeting report > > ** Meeting 1 > > - a thing that happened > > - another thing that happened > > - TODO: email everyone about all the things > > - some more things that happened > > > > to this: > > * Meeting report > > ** Meeting 1 > > - a thing that happened > > - another thing that happened > > ***TODO: email everyone about all the things > > - some more things that happened > > One solution is to use a capture template for TODO items and then refile > them. I picked this up from Bernt Hansen and like it a lot: > > http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Capture > > Wow, that guy is serious! I don't think his setup solves what I'm looking for, but there is so much great stuff in there it'll take me weeks to check it all out. Indeed - Bernt's writeup has been the source of inspiration for lots of people on this list. On your question: I don't think you can have list items carrying TODO keywords. Why can't you make the list items third-level headlines instead? -- Nick ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Bernt Hansen's 2014-09-18 0:41 ` Nick Dokos @ 2014-11-21 4:19 ` rene 2014-11-21 8:36 ` Sebastien Vauban 2014-11-23 18:46 ` Bernt Hansen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: rene @ 2014-11-21 4:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Nick Dokos <ndokos <at> gmail.com> writes: > > Gary Oberbrunner <garyo <at> oberbrunner.com> writes: > > > Thomas S. Dye <tsd <at> tsdye.com> wrote: > > > > > One solution is to use a capture template for TODO items and then > > > refile them. I picked this up from Bernt Hansen and like it a lot: > > > http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Capture > > > > Wow, that guy is serious! I don't think his setup solves what I'm > > looking for, but there is so much great stuff in there it'll take me > > weeks to check it all out. > > Indeed - Bernt's writeup has been the source of inspiration for lots of > people on this list. I wonder whether Bernt would agree to turn his config file into an actual lisp package that could be available via Elpa? I find his code pretty close to what GTD should look like. There are a few things though that could be twicked a bit in order to comply with David Allen's new book on Getting Things Done. I will try to contact Bernt and ask him to deliver such an org-gtd.el package. That would be great for the orgmode community. -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Bernt Hansen's 2014-11-21 4:19 ` Bernt Hansen's rene @ 2014-11-21 8:36 ` Sebastien Vauban 2014-11-22 18:08 ` J. David Boyd 2014-12-01 10:22 ` rene 2014-11-23 18:46 ` Bernt Hansen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Sebastien Vauban @ 2014-11-21 8:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ Hello Rene, rene wrote: >> Indeed - Bernt's writeup has been the source of inspiration for lots of >> people on this list. For sure. > I find his code pretty close to what GTD should look like. There are a few > things though that could be twicked a bit in order to comply with David > Allen's new book on Getting Things Done. Can you detail them, for our own information, please? Best regards, Seb -- Sebastien Vauban ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Bernt Hansen's 2014-11-21 8:36 ` Sebastien Vauban @ 2014-11-22 18:08 ` J. David Boyd 2014-12-01 10:22 ` rene 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: J. David Boyd @ 2014-11-22 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Sebastien Vauban <sva-news@mygooglest.com> writes: > Hello Rene, > > rene wrote: >>> Indeed - Bernt's writeup has been the source of inspiration for lots of >>> people on this list. > > For sure. > >> I find his code pretty close to what GTD should look like. There are a few >> things though that could be twicked a bit in order to comply with David >> Allen's new book on Getting Things Done. > > Can you detail them, for our own information, please? > > Best regards, > Seb I'd like to see these as well, please! Dave ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Bernt Hansen's 2014-11-21 8:36 ` Sebastien Vauban 2014-11-22 18:08 ` J. David Boyd @ 2014-12-01 10:22 ` rene 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: rene @ 2014-12-01 10:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Sebastien Vauban <sva-news@...> writes: > rene wrote: > > > I find his code pretty close to what GTD should look like. There are a few > > things though that could be twicked a bit in order to comply with David > > Allen's new book on Getting Things Done. > > Can you detail them, for our own information, please? Here are a few thoughts. Feel free to provide feedback and enhancements. Associating what GTD calls "Areas of Responsibility" to orgmode categories is great. But launching a search for these categories (areas of responsibility) has to be hardcoded in everyone's config file. It would be great if this could work like for Tags (C-a a M) or Todo keywords (C-a a T). Why not have a "C-a a R" which would prompt us for our own various Areas of Responsibility. Of course there is an org-agenda-filter-by-category function but this function should then work more as org-agenda-filter-by-tag where the category would either be selected with a fast selection letter or when you hit the TAB key you're being prompted for a list of possible categories. Within GTD, the way you are to choose which task to perform never relies on a preset priority level but on three limiting criteria, namely - your context: What can I do where I am? - your time available: How much time do I have? - your energy: How much energy do I have It's easy to implement your context as Tags: @home, @computer, @office, @internet, @errands, etc. It's therefore easy to extract/filter tasks pertaining to a particular context using "C-a a M". I find the org-effort-property misleading. It looks like you're talking about the energy criteria but in fact this deals with the estimated time duration of a task. Could one straighten this up? The estimated "task-duration" could then replace the misleading "org-effort" property. The "energy" level should work as the org-priority. "A" could mean the task will require from me a high level of priority, whereas "C" could mean a low level of priority. In David Allen's new book, which should be available early 2015, the three basic steps for the GTD method are: Capture, Clarify and Organize. In terms of vocabulary, he's not talking about a "task to refile" but rather an "action to clarify and organize", which in orgmode would consist in assigning the right: context (tag), duration, energy, project, where a project would pertain to a area of responsibility (category). For me this notion of projects (and sub-projects, sub-sub-projects, etc.) in org-mode is not that easy to deal with. Maybe I need to investigate things a bit more. Any idea would be welcome. Since the Weekly Review is such a key part in the GTD methodology, I don't think there's any real need to differentiate between active vs stuck projects. Every 7 to 10 days, you will go over your projects and thus identify the ones that need a next action to be defined. The ones that are considered as DONE, if all their sub-actions and sub projects are themselves done or canceled. -- rene ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Bernt Hansen's 2014-11-21 4:19 ` Bernt Hansen's rene 2014-11-21 8:36 ` Sebastien Vauban @ 2014-11-23 18:46 ` Bernt Hansen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Bernt Hansen @ 2014-11-23 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rene; +Cc: emacs-orgmode rene <jlr_0@yahoo.com> writes: > I wonder whether Bernt would agree to turn his config file into an actual > lisp package that could be available via Elpa? > > I find his code pretty close to what GTD should look like. There are a few > things though that could be twicked a bit in order to comply with David > Allen's new book on Getting Things Done. > > I will try to contact Bernt and ask him to deliver such an org-gtd.el > package. That would be great for the orgmode community. Hi Rene, I don't have time to maintain an Elpa package of this stuff currently. This past Friday I just did a 'catch up' in gnus on this mailing list and skipped 8600+ unread articles (including this one) due to lack of available time. Thanks for the email in private that brought this thread to my attention. It should be possible to extract the lisp from my document (http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.org) and generate a lisp file with C-c C-v C-t. This is described at the end of http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode#HowToUseThisDocument From there you can edit whatever you need to for your settings. I personally don't want to conform strictly to David Allen's idea of how GTD should work. I like to roll-my-own way of doing things and if an Elpa packaging of this code would require learning and modifying the workflows to match David Allen's latest book I simply don't have time for that undertaking. Someone else is welcome to take that on if they are interested. I just discovered late last week that one of my settings relies on a feature of the org-mode master branch (and has for over a year) and this change has not been included in any maintenance release of org-mode. Lots of people have contacted me about the breaking signature change in org-remove-drawer-at which is posted in my config since I use the master branch of org-mode. I think most people will be using official released versions of org-mode so I'm not sure how best to handle this issue until Org 8.3 is released which is supposed to include this signature change. I will probably just document the signature change and provide alternative code to use in the extracted version for maintenance releases until 8.3 is created. Best Regards, Bernt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: TODO items in lists (not headings) 2014-09-17 12:45 ` Gary Oberbrunner 2014-09-18 0:41 ` Nick Dokos @ 2014-09-18 16:23 ` Subhan Michael Tindall 2014-09-18 18:49 ` Gary Oberbrunner 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Subhan Michael Tindall @ 2014-09-18 16:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Gary Oberbrunner', Orgmode Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3280 bytes --] Lists are very explicitly not intended to contain TODO items. Checkboxes provide a bit of this functionality, sort of a ‘TODO lite’ I use something like this quite a lot: ** TODO notes from meeting :meeting:steve:susan:jane:bob:action: DEADLINE: <2014-09-19 Fri> :PROPERTIES: :LastWorked: [2014-09-18 Thu 09:14] :END: - Item 1 - Item 2 - [ ] action item 1 - [X] sub action item - [ ] sub action item 2 - Item 3 extended meeting notes here I’ve not used them at all, but there may be a way to set a statistics cookie for the headline, or if not a simple function to update a statistics-type cookie or property when an action item changes state I do sometimes wish that I could include a TODO headline or tag a list item, but that is simply not possible under current implementations. IE something like this: ** meeting - TODO Item 1 tags: “tag1:tag2” LastWorked: [2014-09-18 Thu 09:14] - item 2 With properties etc. handled in a way similar to BEGIN_SRC block headers The problem is that list items/checkbox items are NOT headlines, and all the TODO code etc. is tied to headlines. I haven’t looked at the code but I suspect an extensive rewrite to integrate it with the rest of the headline code. Not as much if it’s kept as an isolated extension. From: emacs-orgmode-bounces+subhant=familycareinc.org@gnu.org [mailto:emacs-orgmode-bounces+subhant=familycareinc.org@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Gary Oberbrunner Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:45 AM To: Orgmode Mailing List Subject: Re: [O] TODO items in lists (not headings) On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com<mailto:tsd@tsdye.com>> wrote: Aloha Gary, Gary Oberbrunner <garyo@oberbrunner.com<mailto:garyo@oberbrunner.com>> writes: > Gary: > My reason for not using TODO is just that it'd be ugly and confusing to > put a heading in the middle of a list. > > Compare this: > * Meeting report > ** Meeting 1 > - a thing that happened > - another thing that happened > - TODO: email everyone about all the things > - some more things that happened > > to this: > * Meeting report > ** Meeting 1 > - a thing that happened > - another thing that happened > ***TODO: email everyone about all the things > - some more things that happened One solution is to use a capture template for TODO items and then refile them. I picked this up from Bernt Hansen and like it a lot: http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Capture Wow, that guy is serious! I don't think his setup solves what I'm looking for, but there is so much great stuff in there it'll take me weeks to check it all out. -- Gary This message is intended for the sole use of the individual and entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended addressee, nor authorized to receive for the intended addressee, you are hereby notified that you may not use, copy, disclose or distribute to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete the message. Thank you. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 27075 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: TODO items in lists (not headings) 2014-09-18 16:23 ` TODO items in lists (not headings) Subhan Michael Tindall @ 2014-09-18 18:49 ` Gary Oberbrunner 2014-09-23 13:34 ` Gary Oberbrunner 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Gary Oberbrunner @ 2014-09-18 18:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Subhan Michael Tindall; +Cc: Orgmode Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 709 bytes --] On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Subhan Michael Tindall < SubhanT@familycareinc.org> wrote: > Lists are very explicitly not intended to contain TODO items. > > Checkboxes provide a bit of this functionality, sort of a ‘TODO lite’ > > ... > > The problem is that list items/checkbox items are NOT headlines, and all > the TODO code etc. is tied to headlines. > > > > I haven’t looked at the code but I suspect an extensive rewrite to > integrate it with the rest of the headline code. Not as much if it’s kept > as an isolated extension. > > > I suspected as much. Although having TODOs in lists would be awesome, checkboxes will do for me now. Thanks all! -- Gary [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2094 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: TODO items in lists (not headings) 2014-09-18 18:49 ` Gary Oberbrunner @ 2014-09-23 13:34 ` Gary Oberbrunner 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Gary Oberbrunner @ 2014-09-23 13:34 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Orgmode Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1286 bytes --] On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Gary Oberbrunner <garyo@oberbrunner.com> wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Subhan Michael Tindall < > SubhanT@familycareinc.org> wrote: > >> Lists are very explicitly not intended to contain TODO items. >> >> Checkboxes provide a bit of this functionality, sort of a ‘TODO lite’ >> >> ... >> >> The problem is that list items/checkbox items are NOT headlines, and all >> the TODO code etc. is tied to headlines. >> >> >> >> I haven’t looked at the code but I suspect an extensive rewrite to >> integrate it with the rest of the headline code. Not as much if it’s kept >> as an isolated extension. >> >> >> > > I suspected as much. Although having TODOs in lists would be awesome, > checkboxes will do for me now. > One more followup on this: it turns out I don't need to use plain lists nearly as often as I had thought! I didn't understand that org-mode export automatically makes headers greater than N into lists (at least with the H:N option). So in many cases I can actually use headers (including TODOs) and get all the benefits there (including not just TODOs but attributes and so on) while still having my exported document look like bulleted lists. Org-mode ftw! -- Gary [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2997 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2014-12-01 10:23 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2014-09-16 20:21 TODO items in lists (not headings) Gary Oberbrunner 2014-09-16 20:32 ` Tory S. Anderson 2014-09-16 22:39 ` Gary Oberbrunner 2014-09-17 3:48 ` Thomas S. Dye 2014-09-17 12:45 ` Gary Oberbrunner 2014-09-18 0:41 ` Nick Dokos 2014-11-21 4:19 ` Bernt Hansen's rene 2014-11-21 8:36 ` Sebastien Vauban 2014-11-22 18:08 ` J. David Boyd 2014-12-01 10:22 ` rene 2014-11-23 18:46 ` Bernt Hansen 2014-09-18 16:23 ` TODO items in lists (not headings) Subhan Michael Tindall 2014-09-18 18:49 ` Gary Oberbrunner 2014-09-23 13:34 ` Gary Oberbrunner
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