From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
To: Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Citation syntax: a revised proposal
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 18:19:16 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87zj8fjdnv.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87k2zjnc0e.fsf@berkeley.edu> (Richard Lawrence's message of "Sat, 14 Feb 2015 18:29:05 -0800")
Hello,
Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:
> Since discussion seems to have petered out on the previous thread (see:
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/94524), I took some time to
> go back over the discussion and write up a concrete proposal for
> citation syntax.
>
> This proposal represents my attempt to formulate a syntax that is easy
> to read, easy to parse, and covers all the use-cases that people
> mentioned as being important. It is surely not perfect, but I learned a
> lot from the previous thread, and I hope something like this will serve
> the community's needs.
Thanks for your proposal. Some comments follow.
> The difference between parenthetical and in-text citations is
> expressed using parentheses around the /first/ citation key. A
> parenthetical citation has such parentheses around the first citation
> key; an in-text citation lacks them. (Parentheses around non-initial
> keys are permitted for visual consistency and to keep the grammar
> simple, but have no meaning.)
I think it would be nicer to differentiate between in-text and
parenthetical citations at the type level, e.g.:
[cite: this @key citation is in-text]
[(cite): this @key citation is parenthetical]
or, as already suggested
[citet: ...]
[citep: ...]
I prefer the former.
> 1) a parenthetical citation for a single work with no prefix and
> suffix may be written by just surrounding the key with brackets,
> like: [@Doe99].
> 2) an in-text citation for a single work with no prefix and suffix
> may be written as a /bare/ key, without brackets, like: @Doe99.
> (Thus, in both of the `simple' cases, one less level of bracketing is
> required.)
Sounds good.
> *** Syntax for extensions
> Additional information can be supplied in a citation that may affect
> how export filters or particular backends format it.
>
> This additional information may be supplied following the brackets of
> a citation between the following delimiters: `%%( ... )'.
As pointed out, this is very odd. But I cannot see any clean solution.
However, it would be nice to integrate it somehow with the syntax. Maybe
something like
[cite: ... @key ...; ... @key2 ... |latex: :prop val |html: :prop val]
> ** Outstanding issues
> It seems to me that there are potential problems with the above
> proposal in a number of areas, but I cannot tell how serious they are,
> or what changes (if any) should be made to solve them. I don't
> pretend that this is an exhaustive list:
> 1) *Nesting.* I have favored LaTeX compatibility for in-text
> citations with multiple references; but this means there is no
> way to `nest' citations. Thus, there is no way to express (in
> the main syntax) what Pandoc expresses as:
> @Doe99 [p. 34; see also @DoeRoe2000]
> which renders like:
> Doe (1999, p. 34; see also Doe and Roe 2000)
> Instead, since a citation is in-text or parenthetical as a whole,
> the equivalent in the above syntax
> [cite: @Doe99 p. 34; see also @DoeRoe2000]
> should render like:
> Doe (1999, p. 34), see also Doe and Roe (2000).
> I am not certain if Pandoc-like output is important in this case.
> The few people who commented on this said that it was not.
AFAIU, when using in-text citation, only the first key is extracted out
of the parenthesis, so
[cite: @Doe99 p. 34; see also @DoeRoe2000]
should really render like
Doe (1999, p. 34; see also Doe and Roe 2000).
IOW, why do you think that "a citation is in-text or parenthetical as
a whole"?
> 2) *Limitations on prefixes and suffixes.* There may be legitimate
> uses of `@', `;', `]', etc. inside prefix or suffix text that the
> above syntax does not allow. Examples might include:
> - use of semi-colons as part of the prefix/suffix text
> - footnotes, links, or timestamps inside a prefix/suffix
> I am not certain how important these cases are. If they are
> important, some of them might be able to be worked around with
> entities.
Indeed. Entities are the way to go. If it isn't sufficient we'll need to
provide an escaping mechanism. This may be used elsewhere in Org.
> 4) *Citation commands.* Rather than introduce an explicit
> representation for different citation commands/types, I have used
> different parts of the syntax to express the common distinctions
> that people mentioned. I suggest that, for now, anything beyond
> these basic distinctions be left to the user-extension syntax.
> However, if it becomes clear in the future that there is a need
> to add a representation for a command to the main syntax, there
> is a natural place to do so: immediately after the `cite:' tag
> (as Nicolas suggested).
With extensions, it is not necessary to support another location for
commands. E.g.,
[cite: @Doe |latex: :command citedwim]
or whatever extension syntax is chosen.
> Also, I have not said anything in this proposal to address how other
> document metadata should be represented, which has not been discussed
> much on the list. I think this should be discussed separately.
Indeed. One step at a time. And this one is rather big.
Regards,
--
Nicolas Goaziou
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-02-15 17:18 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 163+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-02-15 2:29 Citation syntax: a revised proposal Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15 2:45 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15 3:57 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-15 16:40 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15 19:43 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-16 3:34 ` Matt Price
2015-02-16 8:56 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-16 9:57 ` Rasmus
2015-02-17 17:18 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-17 18:11 ` Rasmus
2015-02-18 0:44 ` Matt Price
2015-02-18 3:38 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-18 2:24 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-18 4:03 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-18 9:00 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-18 10:11 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-18 14:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-18 16:38 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-18 18:44 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-18 18:46 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-18 20:54 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-18 21:21 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-18 21:24 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-18 19:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-18 20:47 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-18 22:43 ` Rasmus
2015-02-18 22:35 ` Rasmus
2015-02-19 17:06 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-20 0:10 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-20 16:44 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-20 19:45 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-20 20:01 ` Rasmus
2015-02-20 22:33 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-21 11:58 ` Rasmus
2015-02-21 17:25 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-27 0:56 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-27 8:55 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-27 9:56 ` Rasmus
2015-02-21 3:12 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-21 12:00 ` Rasmus
2015-02-21 20:19 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-21 20:36 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-25 13:59 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-25 16:57 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-25 22:37 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-26 5:10 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-01 20:35 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-01 21:31 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 0:24 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02 8:57 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-03-02 1:37 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02 9:23 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 19:11 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 20:15 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 3:14 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 5:33 ` Avram Lyon
2015-03-03 17:27 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 17:56 ` Avram Lyon
2015-03-04 16:41 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 9:24 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 9:39 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 14:12 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 18:50 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-02 20:14 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 20:34 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 22:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 22:33 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 22:45 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 23:05 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 23:27 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 23:42 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 2:48 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 8:43 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03 16:59 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-04 0:43 ` Matt Price
2015-03-08 0:16 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03 14:23 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 18:54 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 20:26 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03 2:53 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 8:38 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03 9:13 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 16:12 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 14:25 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 20:53 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 14:57 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-03 15:41 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 15:58 ` Ken Mankoff
2015-03-03 16:08 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 17:13 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-10 3:44 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-10 9:49 ` Rasmus
2015-03-11 1:51 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-11 6:04 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-10 16:31 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-11 2:21 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-11 17:33 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-13 18:13 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-17 5:15 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-17 9:27 ` Andreas Leha
2015-03-17 16:26 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-17 20:42 ` Andreas Leha
2015-03-17 21:34 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-18 1:12 ` Matt Price
2015-03-18 15:19 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-25 18:08 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-26 21:30 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-26 23:50 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-27 8:49 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-27 16:35 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-27 10:09 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 5:48 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02 12:22 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 13:53 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02 19:02 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-20 5:27 ` Melanie Bacou
2015-02-20 16:49 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-24 7:08 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-02-25 4:29 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-25 5:57 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-02-15 11:17 ` Tory S. Anderson
2015-02-15 11:57 ` Rasmus
2015-02-15 17:05 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-16 8:53 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 17:52 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-15 17:23 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-09 10:40 ` Sebastien Vauban
2015-03-09 10:50 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-02-15 17:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou [this message]
2015-02-15 17:37 ` Rasmus
2015-02-15 17:55 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 19:30 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-15 18:07 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15 18:25 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 19:05 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-15 19:18 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 19:38 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-15 20:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 20:23 ` Rasmus
2015-02-16 9:07 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 16:59 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-16 17:43 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-16 18:39 ` Rasmus
2015-02-16 19:16 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-16 19:40 ` Rasmus
2015-02-15 20:49 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 16:18 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-16 18:21 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 12:05 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-16 13:10 ` William Denton
2015-02-16 13:42 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 16:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-16 17:28 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 18:49 ` Rasmus
2015-02-16 19:16 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-23 7:26 ` Vaidheeswaran
2015-02-16 16:35 ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2015-02-16 17:56 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 18:24 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 18:39 ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2015-02-16 19:19 ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2015-02-17 6:47 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 16:45 ` Richard Lawrence
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