From: Melanie Bacou <mel@mbacou.com>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Citation syntax: a revised proposal
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 00:27:24 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <54E6C5BC.10906@mbacou.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87oaopx24e.fsf@berkeley.edu>
Just want to point out RMarkdown/Pandoc implementation of bibliographies
and citations here
http://rmarkdown.rstudio.com/authoring_bibliographies_and_citations.html
One useful option is a `csl: biomed-central.csl` option in the preamble.
--Mel.
On 2/19/2015 12:06 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
> Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:
>
>
>> I wasn't clear. Subtype should be interpreted by back-ends means it has
>> no impact on syntax. However a user should be able to dictate what the
>> back-end should do with it, much like `org-add-link-type'.
>>
>> A new library, e.g. "org-cite.el" would provide all the tools necessary
>> to build custom handlers for subtypes. Thus, power users can do whatever
>> they want with cite objects.
>
> Ah, OK, I think I see...so this is basically the second option, with
> users interpreting subtypes via a separate protocol, instead of via
> filters. Right?
>
> What about this concern, then?
>
>>> But that kind of situation is exactly what the extra-info part
>>> of the syntax is for; in that case,
>>>
>>> [cite/my-subtype: ...]
>>>
>>> would just be an exceptional way of writing
>>>
>>> [cite: ...]{:type my-subtype}
>>>
>>> or whatever. I'm not totally convinced yet that the convenience of the
>>> former is worth blurring the line between `stuff that definitely works
>>> on all backends' and `stuff that might not work on all backends'.
>
>
>>> We have already seen a couple of examples in this thread of properties
>>> that one might want to specify in a backend-agnostic way:
>>> - special-case capitalization
>>> - user-defined type/command/label/etc.
>>>
>>> Other things one might want to do include:
>>> - indicating when a citation should be placed in a footnote
>>> - extracting arbitrary bibliographic field(s)
>>
>> I disagree. These properties should be associated to the subtype.
>> Having two places to set them is asking for trouble.
>>
>> IMO, there is little incentive to define a set of options for a single
>> use. Creating a dedicated subtype /once/ makes more sense.
>
> Hmm, OK. I agree in the abstract, but as far as I understand what a
> `subtype' is, I am not sure how well that idea applies in this case. If
> a subtype encompasses a set of options, and the only way to specify
> those options is by specifying a subtype, then changing one option means
> changing to a whole different subtype, even when you want all the other
> options to stay the same. That will lead to a lot of duplication in
> subtypes. That in turn could lead to a lot of author frustration: now I
> have to remember exactly which subtype encompasses the set of options I
> need for this particular citation.
>
> Look at the LaTeX citation commands. There, you have a different
> `type'/command for every possible combination of options, and there are
> many commands because there are many options to deal with special cases.
> In my mind, that is the wrong abstraction to emulate. You end up making
> trips to the manual to figure out exactly which one you need.
>
> To me, it makes much more sense to have a basic citation command, and
> then a way to `answer some questions' to toggle various things related
> to special-case behavior, like:
> - should it be footnoted?
> - should it have special-case capitalization?
> - should it cite the volume?
> - should it deal with brackets in a context-sensitive manner?
> - should it use the genitive form of the author's name?
> - ...
>
> I would guess that the answers to these questions *usually* have nothing
> to do with one another, so it makes sense to be able to answer them
> independently, and change your answer to one independently of your
> answers to the others. That's why I would want to be able to write
>
> [cite: ...]{:footnoted t :capitalized t :author-title t ...}
>
> rather than
>
> [cite/footnoted-capitalized-author-title: ...]
>
> In the former case, if I later figure out I don't need the `:capitalized
> t' part, that's easy to remove without changing the other options. In
> the latter case, I need to remember what name I gave to the subtype for
> footnoted-but-not-capitalized-author-titles, or whatever.
>
> I don't know; maybe this is not a very serious concern in practice.
> Maybe, in practice, you generally only need one `special case' option at
> a time, so the number of subtypes will be small. Still, I do not feel
> comfortable declaring *in advance* that that is so; and the bewildering
> array of LaTeX citation commands is at least some evidence that it
> isn't. Thus, I am in favor of allowing the greater flexibility provided
> by the former syntax.
>
> That's not to say that subtypes never make sense: you are quite right
> that sometimes options *should* be grouped together into a subtype,
> namely, when it makes sense to set or remove them *conjointly*. But
> that means the two syntaxes above actually have different purposes, even
> though for some range of cases either one would do the job.
>
> So although I would not be in favor of *only* allowing
>
> [cite/subtype: ...]
>
> I am basically OK with allowing this if we also allow the {:key val ...}
> syntax. Still, the /subtype form is not needed if we also allow
>
> [cite: ...]{:type subtype}
>
> Best,
> Richard
>
>
>
--
Melanie BACOU
International Food Policy Research Institute
Snr. Program Manager, HarvestChoice
E-mail m.bacou@cgiar.org
Visit www.harvestchoice.org
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-02-20 5:27 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 163+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-02-15 2:29 Citation syntax: a revised proposal Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15 2:45 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15 3:57 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-15 16:40 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15 19:43 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-16 3:34 ` Matt Price
2015-02-16 8:56 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-16 9:57 ` Rasmus
2015-02-17 17:18 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-17 18:11 ` Rasmus
2015-02-18 0:44 ` Matt Price
2015-02-18 3:38 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-18 2:24 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-18 4:03 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-18 9:00 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-18 10:11 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-18 14:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-18 16:38 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-18 18:44 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-18 18:46 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-18 20:54 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-18 21:21 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-18 21:24 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-18 19:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-18 20:47 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-18 22:43 ` Rasmus
2015-02-18 22:35 ` Rasmus
2015-02-19 17:06 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-20 0:10 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-20 16:44 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-20 19:45 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-20 20:01 ` Rasmus
2015-02-20 22:33 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-21 11:58 ` Rasmus
2015-02-21 17:25 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-27 0:56 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-27 8:55 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-27 9:56 ` Rasmus
2015-02-21 3:12 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-21 12:00 ` Rasmus
2015-02-21 20:19 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-21 20:36 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-25 13:59 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-25 16:57 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-25 22:37 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-26 5:10 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-01 20:35 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-01 21:31 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 0:24 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02 8:57 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-03-02 1:37 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02 9:23 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 19:11 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 20:15 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 3:14 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 5:33 ` Avram Lyon
2015-03-03 17:27 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 17:56 ` Avram Lyon
2015-03-04 16:41 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 9:24 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 9:39 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 14:12 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 18:50 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-02 20:14 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 20:34 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 22:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 22:33 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 22:45 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 23:05 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 23:27 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 23:42 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 2:48 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 8:43 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03 16:59 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-04 0:43 ` Matt Price
2015-03-08 0:16 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03 14:23 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 18:54 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 20:26 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03 2:53 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 8:38 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03 9:13 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 16:12 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 14:25 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 20:53 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 14:57 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-03 15:41 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 15:58 ` Ken Mankoff
2015-03-03 16:08 ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 17:13 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-10 3:44 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-10 9:49 ` Rasmus
2015-03-11 1:51 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-11 6:04 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-10 16:31 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-11 2:21 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-11 17:33 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-13 18:13 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-17 5:15 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-17 9:27 ` Andreas Leha
2015-03-17 16:26 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-17 20:42 ` Andreas Leha
2015-03-17 21:34 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-18 1:12 ` Matt Price
2015-03-18 15:19 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-25 18:08 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-26 21:30 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-26 23:50 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-27 8:49 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-27 16:35 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-27 10:09 ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 5:48 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02 12:22 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 13:53 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02 19:02 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-20 5:27 ` Melanie Bacou [this message]
2015-02-20 16:49 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-24 7:08 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-02-25 4:29 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-25 5:57 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-02-15 11:17 ` Tory S. Anderson
2015-02-15 11:57 ` Rasmus
2015-02-15 17:05 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-16 8:53 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 17:52 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-15 17:23 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-09 10:40 ` Sebastien Vauban
2015-03-09 10:50 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-02-15 17:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 17:37 ` Rasmus
2015-02-15 17:55 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 19:30 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-15 18:07 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15 18:25 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 19:05 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-15 19:18 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 19:38 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-15 20:13 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 20:23 ` Rasmus
2015-02-16 9:07 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 16:59 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-16 17:43 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-16 18:39 ` Rasmus
2015-02-16 19:16 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-16 19:40 ` Rasmus
2015-02-15 20:49 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 16:18 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-16 18:21 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 12:05 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-16 13:10 ` William Denton
2015-02-16 13:42 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 16:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-16 17:28 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 18:49 ` Rasmus
2015-02-16 19:16 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-23 7:26 ` Vaidheeswaran
2015-02-16 16:35 ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2015-02-16 17:56 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 18:24 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 18:39 ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2015-02-16 19:19 ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2015-02-17 6:47 ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 16:45 ` Richard Lawrence
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