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* export and containers
@ 2009-02-28 10:29 Richard Riley
  2009-02-28 11:37 ` Sebastian Rose
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Richard Riley @ 2009-02-28 10:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: org-mode


It's been a while since I've looked at my org set up. One thing that
always struck me as a bit hacky was my use of

:preamble "<div id='content'>

and the corresponding postamble to enclose the exported web pages into a
"container" div. Is there a better way to do this? I would think it
would be a common enough need that by default or via an option all html
should be enclosed in a "webcontainer" ID.

regards

r.


-- 
 important and urgent problems of the technology of today are no longer the satisfactions of the primary needs or of archetypal wishes, but the reparation of the evils and damages by the technology of yesterday.  ~Dennis Gabor, Innovations:  Scientific, Technological and Social, 1970

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-02-28 10:29 export and containers Richard Riley
@ 2009-02-28 11:37 ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-02-28 19:23   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-03-02  8:03   ` Richard Riley
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-02-28 11:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Riley; +Cc: org-mode

Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
> It's been a while since I've looked at my org set up. One thing that
> always struck me as a bit hacky was my use of
>
> :preamble "<div id='content'>
>
> and the corresponding postamble to enclose the exported web pages into a
> "container" div. Is there a better way to do this? I would think it
> would be a common enough need that by default or via an option all html
> should be enclosed in a "webcontainer" ID.

While one container around everything makes it possible to center the
page horizontally, two containers make it possible to center the page
vertically as well.

If we would go and change the structure once again, I'd even suggest the
following:

<body>
  <div id="percent-50">         -- center the page if desired
    <div id="wrap">             -- center the page if desired

      <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
        <div id="table-of-contents">
          the toc
        </div>
      </div>

      <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
        All the rest of the content goes here
      </div>

      <div id="postamble">
        postamble
      </div>

    </div>
  </div>
</body>



Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:

  - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
    padding or margin at all!
  - one for margin, padding, styling.

I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
browsers.


column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put the
TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with the
fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.

The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be able
to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.


Best,

--
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-02-28 11:37 ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2009-02-28 19:23   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-02-28 21:09     ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-02  8:03   ` Richard Riley
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-02-28 19:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Sebastian Rose; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Hi Sebastian,

I could do this.  Would this mean that org-info.js would become
backward not compatible with older pages?  I believe quite a few  
people actually
pull org-info.js from orgmode.org.

- Carsten

On Feb 28, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:

> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>> It's been a while since I've looked at my org set up. One thing that
>> always struck me as a bit hacky was my use of
>>
>> :preamble "<div id='content'>
>>
>> and the corresponding postamble to enclose the exported web pages  
>> into a
>> "container" div. Is there a better way to do this? I would think it
>> would be a common enough need that by default or via an option all  
>> html
>> should be enclosed in a "webcontainer" ID.
>
> While one container around everything makes it possible to center the
> page horizontally, two containers make it possible to center the page
> vertically as well.
>
> If we would go and change the structure once again, I'd even suggest  
> the
> following:
>
> <body>
>  <div id="percent-50">         -- center the page if desired
>    <div id="wrap">             -- center the page if desired
>
>      <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>        <div id="table-of-contents">
>          the toc
>        </div>
>      </div>
>
>      <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>        All the rest of the content goes here
>      </div>
>
>      <div id="postamble">
>        postamble
>      </div>
>
>    </div>
>  </div>
> </body>
>
>
>
> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>
>  - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
>    padding or margin at all!
>  - one for margin, padding, styling.
>
> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
> browsers.
>
>
> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put  
> the
> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with  
> the
> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>
> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be  
> able
> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449  
> Hannover
> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-02-28 19:23   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-02-28 21:09     ` Sebastian Rose
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-02-28 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> I could do this.  Would this mean that org-info.js would become
> backward not compatible with older pages?  I believe quite a few people actually
> pull org-info.js from orgmode.org.




I'd have to rework it a bit. But I think it's worth it, since it offers
more fleyibility in (web-)design.

Maybe we could just branch and work it out. When done, we merge into
trunk and inform everyone about the changes. New things brake old ones
some times - so what? If we play it `fair', it should be fine.

Adjusting org-info.js the way it is now, takes a weekend I
hope. Actually, I doubt that there is much to be rewritten - maybe the
info-view-mode changes a bit.



I'd happily do a 

for f in $(find ~/org/ -name '*.org); do touch "$f"; done

and re-publish all the stuff, to make my pages centered in the
window. And that's all people willing to upgrade have to do.


Also, I'm quite sure we can eleminate the remaining problems with the
fixed TOC in IE on small screens, since there's another container around
it.




>
> - Carsten
>
> On Feb 28, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>
>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>> It's been a while since I've looked at my org set up. One thing that
>>> always struck me as a bit hacky was my use of
>>>
>>> :preamble "<div id='content'>
>>>
>>> and the corresponding postamble to enclose the exported web pages into a
>>> "container" div. Is there a better way to do this? I would think it
>>> would be a common enough need that by default or via an option all html
>>> should be enclosed in a "webcontainer" ID.
>>
>> While one container around everything makes it possible to center the
>> page horizontally, two containers make it possible to center the page
>> vertically as well.
>>
>> If we would go and change the structure once again, I'd even suggest the
>> following:
>>
>> <body>
>>  <div id="percent-50">         -- center the page if desired
>>    <div id="wrap">             -- center the page if desired
>>
>>      <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>        <div id="table-of-contents">
>>          the toc
>>        </div>
>>      </div>
>>
>>      <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>        All the rest of the content goes here
>>      </div>
>>
>>      <div id="postamble">
>>        postamble
>>      </div>
>>
>>    </div>
>>  </div>
>> </body>
>>
>>
>>
>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>
>>  - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
>>    padding or margin at all!
>>  - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>
>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
>> browsers.
>>
>>
>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put the
>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with the
>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>
>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be able
>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> --
>> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
>> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
>> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
>> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
>> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

>
> - Carsten
>
> On Feb 28, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>
>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>> It's been a while since I've looked at my org set up. One thing that
>>> always struck me as a bit hacky was my use of
>>>
>>> :preamble "<div id='content'>
>>>
>>> and the corresponding postamble to enclose the exported web pages into a
>>> "container" div. Is there a better way to do this? I would think it
>>> would be a common enough need that by default or via an option all html
>>> should be enclosed in a "webcontainer" ID.
>>
>> While one container around everything makes it possible to center the
>> page horizontally, two containers make it possible to center the page
>> vertically as well.
>>
>> If we would go and change the structure once again, I'd even suggest the
>> following:
>>
>> <body>
>>  <div id="percent-50">         -- center the page if desired
>>    <div id="wrap">             -- center the page if desired
>>
>>      <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>        <div id="table-of-contents">
>>          the toc
>>        </div>
>>      </div>
>>
>>      <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>        All the rest of the content goes here
>>      </div>
>>
>>      <div id="postamble">
>>        postamble
>>      </div>
>>
>>    </div>
>>  </div>
>> </body>
>>
>>
>>
>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>
>>  - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
>>    padding or margin at all!
>>  - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>
>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
>> browsers.
>>
>>
>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put the
>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with the
>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>
>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be able
>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> --
>> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
>> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
>> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
>> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
>> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-02-28 11:37 ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-02-28 19:23   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-03-02  8:03   ` Richard Riley
  2009-03-02  9:29     ` Sebastian Rose
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Richard Riley @ 2009-03-02  8:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Sebastian Rose; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>> It's been a while since I've looked at my org set up. One thing that
>> always struck me as a bit hacky was my use of
>>
>> :preamble "<div id='content'>
>>
>> and the corresponding postamble to enclose the exported web pages into a
>> "container" div. Is there a better way to do this? I would think it
>> would be a common enough need that by default or via an option all html
>> should be enclosed in a "webcontainer" ID.
>
> While one container around everything makes it possible to center the
> page horizontally, two containers make it possible to center the page
> vertically as well.
>
> If we would go and change the structure once again, I'd even suggest the
> following:
>
> <body>
>   <div id="percent-50">         -- center the page if desired
>     <div id="wrap">             -- center the page if desired

Why always IDs as opposed to classes?

Can css selectors select based on a part of a name? If not then there is
no link between column-1 and column-2. e.g in this convention how does
one create a common style for all columns or all "sec-" objects?

>
>       <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>         <div id="table-of-contents">
>           the toc
>         </div>
>       </div>
>
>       <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>         All the rest of the content goes here
>       </div>
>
>       <div id="postamble">
>         postamble
>       </div>
>
>     </div>
>   </div>
> </body>
>
>
>
> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>
>   - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
>     padding or margin at all!

Can one not simply use .body for that?

>   - one for margin, padding, styling.
>
> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
> browsers.
>
>
> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put the
> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with the
> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>
> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be able
> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.

>
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>

-- 
 important and urgent problems of the technology of today are no longer the satisfactions of the primary needs or of archetypal wishes, but the reparation of the evils and damages by the technology of yesterday.  ~Dennis Gabor, Innovations:  Scientific, Technological and Social, 1970

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02  8:03   ` Richard Riley
@ 2009-03-02  9:29     ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-02 11:11       ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-03-02 14:38       ` Richard Riley
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-02  9:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Riley; +Cc: org-mode

Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>
>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>> It's been a while since I've looked at my org set up. One thing that
>>> always struck me as a bit hacky was my use of
>>>
>>> :preamble "<div id='content'>
>>>
>>> and the corresponding postamble to enclose the exported web pages into a
>>> "container" div. Is there a better way to do this? I would think it
>>> would be a common enough need that by default or via an option all html
>>> should be enclosed in a "webcontainer" ID.
>>
>> While one container around everything makes it possible to center the
>> page horizontally, two containers make it possible to center the page
>> vertically as well.
>>
>> If we would go and change the structure once again, I'd even suggest the
>> following:
>>
>> <body>
>>   <div id="percent-50">         -- center the page if desired
>>     <div id="wrap">             -- center the page if desired
>
> Why always IDs as opposed to classes?


`percent-50' and `wrap' are there for a special purpose and unique in
that concern. `wrap' is the `content' you originally requested. I did
not use my brain and called it `wrap' without any annotation.

>>> :preamble "<div id='content'>

I'd say they should have an ID assigned.



> Can css selectors select based on a part of a name? If not then there is
> no link between column-1 and column-2. e.g in this convention how does
> one create a common style for all columns or all "sec-" objects?

Aaah, OK, sorry for being unclear - a misunderstanding.

I did *not* mean to _change_ the structure of the XHTML in it's current
form, but simply _add_ additional containers to partition the whole
thing (just as you suggested) and thus make it possible to move certain
groups of content around through CSS.

All the "sec-" objects should go into `column-2'.
All the `sec-' objects share classes via the containers they live in:

    <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
    <div id="outline-container-2.1" class="outline-3">

etc.

That's already the case, and I think we don't need to change that.


* Suggestions for names

  `wrap' is, what they use in typolight and some other CMSs. But
  `content' sounds good to me too.

  <div id="center">
    <div id="wrap"><!-- or `content' -->

      <div id="box-1">
        <div id="table-of-contents">
         ...
        </div>
      </div><!-- end of box-1 -->

      <div id="box-2">
        <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
          <h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">2</span> Konfiguration </h2>
          <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-2">
           ...
          </div>
        </div>
        ... more sections, footnotes ...
      </div><!-- end of box-2 -->

      <div id="postamble">
        postamble
      </div>


    </div><!-- end of wrap -->
  </div><!-- end of center -->



>>
>>       <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>         <div id="table-of-contents">
>>           the toc
>>         </div>
>>       </div>
>>
>>       <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>         All the rest of the content goes here
>>       </div>
>>
>>       <div id="postamble">
>>         postamble
>>       </div>
>>
>>     </div>
>>   </div>
>> </body>
>>
>>
>>
>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>
>>   - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
>>     padding or margin at all!
>
> Can one not simply use .body for that?
>
>>   - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>
>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
>> browsers.
>>
>>
>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put the
>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with the
>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>
>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be able
>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> --
>> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
>> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
>> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
>> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
>> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>>

--
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02  9:29     ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2009-03-02 11:11       ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-03-02 11:58         ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-02 14:38       ` Richard Riley
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-03-02 11:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Sebastian Rose; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Hi Sebastian,


On Mar 2, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>
> * Suggestions for names
>
>  `wrap' is, what they use in typolight and some other CMSs. But
>  `content' sounds good to me too.
>
>  <div id="center">
>    <div id="wrap"><!-- or `content' -->
>
>      <div id="box-1">
>        <div id="table-of-contents">
>         ...
>        </div>
>      </div><!-- end of box-1 -->
>
>      <div id="box-2">
>        <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>          <h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">2</span>  
> Konfiguration </h2>
>          <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-2">
>           ...
>          </div>
>        </div>
>        ... more sections, footnotes ...
>      </div><!-- end of box-2 -->
>
>      <div id="postamble">
>        postamble
>      </div>
>
>
>    </div><!-- end of wrap -->
>  </div><!-- end of center -->


How about these names for additional divs

content-wrap
content         ;; I think we should just have one around the entire  
content.
                 ;; should this also contain the <h1> with the page  
title?
                 ;; I think yes

table-of-contents-wrap

footnote-wrap
bibliography-wrap
postamble-wrap

So we put all the stuff into specific "wrap" containers.
I don't so much like "column-1", because that looks fine
if you use it for columns, but it looks confusing if you
use it for something else...

- Carsten

>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>      <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>        <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>          the toc
>>>        </div>
>>>      </div>
>>>
>>>      <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>        All the rest of the content goes here
>>>      </div>
>>>
>>>      <div id="postamble">
>>>        postamble
>>>      </div>
>>>
>>>    </div>
>>>  </div>
>>> </body>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
>>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>>
>>>  - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have  
>>> _no_
>>>    padding or margin at all!
>>
>> Can one not simply use .body for that?
>>
>>>  - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>>
>>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
>>> browsers.
>>>
>>>
>>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to  
>>> put the
>>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the  
>>> level 1
>>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems  
>>> with the
>>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
>>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>>
>>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be  
>>> able
>>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449  
>>> Hannover
>>> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
>>> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
>>> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
>>> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>>>
>
> --
> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449  
> Hannover
> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
> Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 11:11       ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-03-02 11:58         ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-02 13:10           ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-02 11:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> Hi Sebastian,
>
>
> On Mar 2, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>>
>> * Suggestions for names
>>
>>  `wrap' is, what they use in typolight and some other CMSs. But
>>  `content' sounds good to me too.
>>
>>  <div id="center">
>>    <div id="wrap"><!-- or `content' -->
>>
>>      <div id="box-1">
>>        <div id="table-of-contents">
>>         ...
>>        </div>
>>      </div><!-- end of box-1 -->
>>
>>      <div id="box-2">
>>        <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>>          <h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">2</span> Konfiguration
>> </h2>
>>          <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-2">
>>           ...
>>          </div>
>>        </div>
>>        ... more sections, footnotes ...
>>      </div><!-- end of box-2 -->
>>
>>      <div id="postamble">
>>        postamble
>>      </div>
>>
>>
>>    </div><!-- end of wrap -->
>>  </div><!-- end of center -->
>
>
> How about these names for additional divs
>
> content-wrap
> content         ;; I think we should just have one around the entire content.
>                 ;; should this also contain the <h1> with the page title?
>                 ;; I think yes

OK, one might be enough. There's a cross-browser CSS to center the contents
vertically with only one container:

#content-wrap
{
  ...
  margin-top:auto;
  margin-bottom:auto;
  vertical-align:middle;
  ...
}

And yes,  the title should be inside `content-wrap'

> table-of-contents-wrap
>
> footnote-wrap
> bibliography-wrap
> postamble-wrap
>
> So we put all the stuff into specific "wrap" containers.
> I don't so much like "column-1", because that looks fine
> if you use it for columns, but it looks confusing if you
> use it for something else...


Agreed.

How about `org(-container ?) for the outer most container? Think of
exporting the content only for inclusion into some framework. In that
case `org' seems a natural name.

Anyway, for sake of the TOC on the left, we should also wrap all the rest
of the contents in one <div> with postamble being the only exception.

The tree would simply be:

 org
    title
    table-of-contents-wrap
       table-of-contents
    content-wrap
       sec-1...    - unchanged
       footnotes   - unchanged
       bibliography
    postamble    // already there

The reason for the container around everything excluding title, TOC and
postamble is, that I don't want the TOC to live in the left margin of
the <body>, the way it does now.

`float:left' for the TOC will cause the page to look funny in the most
cases: 

  +-----+--------------+
  | TOC |  TITLE       |
  +-----+  SEC-1       |
  |  SEC2              |
  |  SEC2              |
  |  FOOTNOTES         |
  +--------------------+
  |     POSTAMBLE      |
  +--------------------+

Better:

  +-----+--------------+
  | TOC |  TITLE       |
  |     |  SEC-1       |
  |     |  SEC2        |
  |     |  SEC3        |
  |     |  FOOTNOTES   |
  +--------------------+
  |     POSTAMBLE      |
  +--------------------+


And this one here would be nice (all navigational elements visible on
load): 

  +-----+--------------+-----+
  | TOC |  TITLE       | LOT |
  |     |  SEC-1       +-----+
  |     |  SEC2        | LOF |
  |     |  SEC3        +-----+
  |     |  FOOTNOTES   | BIB |
  +-----+--------------+-----+
  |        POSTAMBLE         |
  +--------------------------+

Some people (see drupal) put the postamble into the right/center column
for two and three column layout respectively. I don't like that very
much.




What we should do before we change anything, is to experiment with one
simple document and different stylesheets, to ensure everything works
the way we want it to.

I'll set up some with the different aproaches and try to add different
CSS stylesheets. Our aim must be to make many different layouts possible
(we will never make _all_ possible layouts feasable though).



Important layouts are:

  | Name                    | example          |
  |-------------------------+------------------|
  | Fixed TOC               | orgmode.org      |
  | Floating TOC            | orgmode.org/worg |
  | Please add more here...                    |

  The usual page-flow will always stay what it is as long as no special
  styles are added.


Best,

   Sebastian


> - Carsten
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>      <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>        <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>>          the toc
>>>>        </div>
>>>>      </div>
>>>>
>>>>      <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>        All the rest of the content goes here
>>>>      </div>
>>>>
>>>>      <div id="postamble">
>>>>        postamble
>>>>      </div>
>>>>
>>>>    </div>
>>>>  </div>
>>>> </body>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
>>>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>>>
>>>>  - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
>>>>    padding or margin at all!
>>>
>>> Can one not simply use .body for that?
>>>
>>>>  - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>>>
>>>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
>>>> browsers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put the
>>>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
>>>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with the
>>>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
>>>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>>>
>>>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be able
>>>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 11:58         ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2009-03-02 13:10           ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-03-02 16:00             ` Sebastian Rose
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-03-02 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Sebastian Rose; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

OK, so I will wait with making changes until you have
done some experimentation, maybe put that up somewhere,
so that others can have a look?

- Carsten

On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>> Hi Sebastian,
>>
>>
>> On Mar 2, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>>>
>>> * Suggestions for names
>>>
>>> `wrap' is, what they use in typolight and some other CMSs. But
>>> `content' sounds good to me too.
>>>
>>> <div id="center">
>>>   <div id="wrap"><!-- or `content' -->
>>>
>>>     <div id="box-1">
>>>       <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>        ...
>>>       </div>
>>>     </div><!-- end of box-1 -->
>>>
>>>     <div id="box-2">
>>>       <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>>>         <h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">2</span>  
>>> Konfiguration
>>> </h2>
>>>         <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-2">
>>>          ...
>>>         </div>
>>>       </div>
>>>       ... more sections, footnotes ...
>>>     </div><!-- end of box-2 -->
>>>
>>>     <div id="postamble">
>>>       postamble
>>>     </div>
>>>
>>>
>>>   </div><!-- end of wrap -->
>>> </div><!-- end of center -->
>>
>>
>> How about these names for additional divs
>>
>> content-wrap
>> content         ;; I think we should just have one around the  
>> entire content.
>>                ;; should this also contain the <h1> with the page  
>> title?
>>                ;; I think yes
>
> OK, one might be enough. There's a cross-browser CSS to center the  
> contents
> vertically with only one container:
>
> #content-wrap
> {
>  ...
>  margin-top:auto;
>  margin-bottom:auto;
>  vertical-align:middle;
>  ...
> }
>
> And yes,  the title should be inside `content-wrap'
>
>> table-of-contents-wrap
>>
>> footnote-wrap
>> bibliography-wrap
>> postamble-wrap
>>
>> So we put all the stuff into specific "wrap" containers.
>> I don't so much like "column-1", because that looks fine
>> if you use it for columns, but it looks confusing if you
>> use it for something else...
>
>
> Agreed.
>
> How about `org(-container ?) for the outer most container? Think of
> exporting the content only for inclusion into some framework. In that
> case `org' seems a natural name.
>
> Anyway, for sake of the TOC on the left, we should also wrap all the  
> rest
> of the contents in one <div> with postamble being the only exception.
>
> The tree would simply be:
>
> org
>    title
>    table-of-contents-wrap
>       table-of-contents
>    content-wrap
>       sec-1...    - unchanged
>       footnotes   - unchanged
>       bibliography
>    postamble    // already there
>
> The reason for the container around everything excluding title, TOC  
> and
> postamble is, that I don't want the TOC to live in the left margin of
> the <body>, the way it does now.
>
> `float:left' for the TOC will cause the page to look funny in the most
> cases:
>
>  +-----+--------------+
>  | TOC |  TITLE       |
>  +-----+  SEC-1       |
>  |  SEC2              |
>  |  SEC2              |
>  |  FOOTNOTES         |
>  +--------------------+
>  |     POSTAMBLE      |
>  +--------------------+
>
> Better:
>
>  +-----+--------------+
>  | TOC |  TITLE       |
>  |     |  SEC-1       |
>  |     |  SEC2        |
>  |     |  SEC3        |
>  |     |  FOOTNOTES   |
>  +--------------------+
>  |     POSTAMBLE      |
>  +--------------------+
>
>
> And this one here would be nice (all navigational elements visible on
> load):
>
>  +-----+--------------+-----+
>  | TOC |  TITLE       | LOT |
>  |     |  SEC-1       +-----+
>  |     |  SEC2        | LOF |
>  |     |  SEC3        +-----+
>  |     |  FOOTNOTES   | BIB |
>  +-----+--------------+-----+
>  |        POSTAMBLE         |
>  +--------------------------+
>
> Some people (see drupal) put the postamble into the right/center  
> column
> for two and three column layout respectively. I don't like that very
> much.
>
>
>
>
> What we should do before we change anything, is to experiment with one
> simple document and different stylesheets, to ensure everything works
> the way we want it to.
>
> I'll set up some with the different aproaches and try to add different
> CSS stylesheets. Our aim must be to make many different layouts  
> possible
> (we will never make _all_ possible layouts feasable though).
>
>
>
> Important layouts are:
>
>  | Name                    | example          |
>  |-------------------------+------------------|
>  | Fixed TOC               | orgmode.org      |
>  | Floating TOC            | orgmode.org/worg |
>  | Please add more here...                    |
>
>  The usual page-flow will always stay what it is as long as no special
>  styles are added.
>
>
> Best,
>
>   Sebastian
>
>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>>       <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>>>         the toc
>>>>>       </div>
>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>
>>>>>     <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>>       All the rest of the content goes here
>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>
>>>>>     <div id="postamble">
>>>>>       postamble
>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>
>>>>>   </div>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>> </body>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in  
>>>>> IE. In
>>>>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>>>>
>>>>> - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have  
>>>>> _no_
>>>>>   padding or margin at all!
>>>>
>>>> Can one not simply use .body for that?
>>>>
>>>>> - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>>>>
>>>>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
>>>>> browsers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to  
>>>>> put the
>>>>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the  
>>>>> level 1
>>>>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems  
>>>>> with the
>>>>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble')  
>>>>> make it
>>>>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>>>>
>>>>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to  
>>>>> be able
>>>>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>
> -- 
> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449  
> Hannover
> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
> Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
> Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02  9:29     ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-02 11:11       ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-03-02 14:38       ` Richard Riley
  2009-03-02 16:50         ` Sebastian Rose
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Richard Riley @ 2009-03-02 14:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Sebastian Rose; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>
>>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>> It's been a while since I've looked at my org set up. One thing that
>>>> always struck me as a bit hacky was my use of
>>>>
>>>> :preamble "<div id='content'>
>>>>
>>>> and the corresponding postamble to enclose the exported web pages into a
>>>> "container" div. Is there a better way to do this? I would think it
>>>> would be a common enough need that by default or via an option all html
>>>> should be enclosed in a "webcontainer" ID.
>>>
>>> While one container around everything makes it possible to center the
>>> page horizontally, two containers make it possible to center the page
>>> vertically as well.
>>>
>>> If we would go and change the structure once again, I'd even suggest the
>>> following:
>>>
>>> <body>
>>>   <div id="percent-50">         -- center the page if desired
>>>     <div id="wrap">             -- center the page if desired
>>
>> Why always IDs as opposed to classes?
>
>
> `percent-50' and `wrap' are there for a special purpose and unique in
> that concern. `wrap' is the `content' you originally requested. I did
> not use my brain and called it `wrap' without any annotation.

"content" or "org-container". Wrap made no sense to me. It suggests word
wrap in the context. wrapper would be better. Purely vocabulary issue.

>
>>>> :preamble "<div id='content'>
>
> I'd say they should have an ID assigned.

Just an academic question : Why not a class?

>
>
>
>> Can css selectors select based on a part of a name? If not then there is
>> no link between column-1 and column-2. e.g in this convention how does
>> one create a common style for all columns or all "sec-" objects?
>
> Aaah, OK, sorry for being unclear - a misunderstanding.
>
> I did *not* mean to _change_ the structure of the XHTML in it's
> current

FYI I have abandoned xhtml in the smalle bit of web UI I touch.. It is
not cross platform/browser. Common concensus says make it html 4.01
strict compliant.


> form, but simply _add_ additional containers to partition the whole
> thing (just as you suggested) and thus make it possible to move certain
> groups of content around through CSS.
>
> All the "sec-" objects should go into `column-2'.

I dont know/understand what you mean with "columns".

Columns suggest layout in columns. It should simply be a "wrapper". That
wrapper may or may not be CSSd to a column. It might be a float or a
fixed position or .....

> All the `sec-' objects share classes via the containers they live in:
>
>     <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>     <div id="outline-container-2.1" class="outline-3">
>
> etc.

Yes. Thats what I was suggesting but see later on regarding css descendants.

>
> That's already the case, and I think we don't need to change that.
>

There is still this difference between ID and class name. I'm not sure I
see why.

>
> * Suggestions for names
>
>   `wrap' is, what they use in typolight and some other CMSs. But
>   `content' sounds good to me too.
>
>   <div id="center">
>     <div id="wrap"><!-- or `content' -->
>
>       <div id="box-1">
>         <div id="table-of-contents">
>          ...
>         </div>
>       </div><!-- end of box-1 -->
>
>       <div id="box-2">

where is the "base" class for box-2? 

The issue I see is that theres no way using this method to change all
"sec-" entries in an outline container for example since you cant use
css descendants since all have *unique* class names and IDs.

>         <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>           <h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">2</span> Konfiguration </h2>
>           <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-2">

and another div here is what?


,----
| >           <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-3">
`----

?


>            ...
>           </div>
>         </div>
>         ... more sections, footnotes ...
>       </div><!-- end of box-2 -->
>
>       <div id="postamble">
>         postamble
>       </div>
>
>
>     </div><!-- end of wrap -->
>   </div><!-- end of center -->

I'm not sure I understand the need for the container container. Maybe I
need to Google up centering vertically. 

>
>
>
>>>
>>>       <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>         <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>           the toc
>>>         </div>
>>>       </div>
>>>
>>>       <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>         All the rest of the content goes here
>>>       </div>
>>>
>>>       <div id="postamble">
>>>         postamble
>>>       </div>
>>>
>>>     </div>
>>>   </div>
>>> </body>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
>>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>>
>>>   - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
>>>     padding or margin at all!
>>
>> Can one not simply use .body for that?
>>
>>>   - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>>
>>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
>>> browsers.
>>>
>>>
>>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put the
>>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
>>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with the
>>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
>>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>>
>>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be able
>>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
>>> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
>>> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
>>> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
>>> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>>>
>
> --
> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
> Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>

-- 
 important and urgent problems of the technology of today are no longer the satisfactions of the primary needs or of archetypal wishes, but the reparation of the evils and damages by the technology of yesterday.  ~Dennis Gabor, Innovations:  Scientific, Technological and Social, 1970

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 13:10           ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-03-02 16:00             ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-02 17:03               ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-02 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley


OK - I failed badly :-(

I think we can skip the extra <div> element around the TOC. 

Here's why:

  As it looks now, the problem with the fixed TOC does not go away. My
  old trick seems to work only for HTML doctype and/or tables...  Should
  have tested that one before...

  So until now it's not getting any better - but more complicated.

  And all those stlyes in the stylesheet become confusing :-/

  The main problem is the height of the TOC on orgmode.org. The <div>
  element grows and shrinks in height when we resize the window.
  Unfortunately, we can't set the height property to 100% because of the
  unicorn. Instead I set it to 60% to support Netbooks - but 60% will be
  too high if the window is resized to be under a certain height. And
  60% is low, if the window fills a bigger screen (> 17')

  Seems I can't solve that by adding structural elements. The only
  element I could think of would be a table with height=100% and the
  unicorn in the first row (fixed height), TOC in the second row (no
  height property).


Most of this seems to be true for the other containers I thought of.


Just one around everything and one around the all the sections and
footnotes seems to make sense so far.




Maybe someone finds another way of `skinning' the XHTML output in the
future. 



How about adding custom HTML before and after writing the main
containers?

Can't we something like this here ? :

   (defun my-export-add-custom-html(when, which)
      "when is either 'before' or 'after', which is one of:
        - 'body'
        - 'title'
        - 'toc'
        - 'contents'
        - 'lot'
       ..."
     (when (string= "body" which)
        (if (string= "before" when)
          "<div id="\"wrap\">")
          "</div>")
   )


In org-publish-project-alist:

   :custom-html-funcion   my-export-add-custom-html

and perhaps:

   :org-export-html-sequence '("title" "toc" "content" "footnotes")
   ;; getting wild and offtopic:
   :custom-id-function   my-org-id-was-found


That way the output would win flexibility and get closer to an generic
export. One could implement a table based layout, or reuse containers
from the CMS the pages should be used in.  Not to forget `<?php
..... ?>' or similar.

We would lose the guaranty that anything validates or org-info.js works
with the resulting structure though. But we could provide different
`themes' on Worg which are guarantied to work (and enhanced by the
comunity).


Or is all this completely weired?




Best,

  Sebastian



Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> OK, so I will wait with making changes until you have
> done some experimentation, maybe put that up somewhere,
> so that others can have a look?



>
> - Carsten
>
> On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>
>> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>>> Hi Sebastian,
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 2, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>>>>
>>>> * Suggestions for names
>>>>
>>>> `wrap' is, what they use in typolight and some other CMSs. But
>>>> `content' sounds good to me too.
>>>>
>>>> <div id="center">
>>>>   <div id="wrap"><!-- or `content' -->
>>>>
>>>>     <div id="box-1">
>>>>       <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>>        ...
>>>>       </div>
>>>>     </div><!-- end of box-1 -->
>>>>
>>>>     <div id="box-2">
>>>>       <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>>>>         <h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">2</span> Konfiguration
>>>> </h2>
>>>>         <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-2">
>>>>          ...
>>>>         </div>
>>>>       </div>
>>>>       ... more sections, footnotes ...
>>>>     </div><!-- end of box-2 -->
>>>>
>>>>     <div id="postamble">
>>>>       postamble
>>>>     </div>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   </div><!-- end of wrap -->
>>>> </div><!-- end of center -->
>>>
>>>
>>> How about these names for additional divs
>>>
>>> content-wrap
>>> content         ;; I think we should just have one around the entire content.
>>>                ;; should this also contain the <h1> with the page title?
>>>                ;; I think yes
>>
>> OK, one might be enough. There's a cross-browser CSS to center the contents
>> vertically with only one container:
>>
>> #content-wrap
>> {
>>  ...
>>  margin-top:auto;
>>  margin-bottom:auto;
>>  vertical-align:middle;
>>  ...
>> }
>>
>> And yes,  the title should be inside `content-wrap'
>>
>>> table-of-contents-wrap
>>>
>>> footnote-wrap
>>> bibliography-wrap
>>> postamble-wrap
>>>
>>> So we put all the stuff into specific "wrap" containers.
>>> I don't so much like "column-1", because that looks fine
>>> if you use it for columns, but it looks confusing if you
>>> use it for something else...
>>
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> How about `org(-container ?) for the outer most container? Think of
>> exporting the content only for inclusion into some framework. In that
>> case `org' seems a natural name.
>>
>> Anyway, for sake of the TOC on the left, we should also wrap all the rest
>> of the contents in one <div> with postamble being the only exception.
>>
>> The tree would simply be:
>>
>> org
>>    title
>>    table-of-contents-wrap
>>       table-of-contents
>>    content-wrap
>>       sec-1...    - unchanged
>>       footnotes   - unchanged
>>       bibliography
>>    postamble    // already there
>>
>> The reason for the container around everything excluding title, TOC and
>> postamble is, that I don't want the TOC to live in the left margin of
>> the <body>, the way it does now.
>>
>> `float:left' for the TOC will cause the page to look funny in the most
>> cases:
>>
>>  +-----+--------------+
>>  | TOC |  TITLE       |
>>  +-----+  SEC-1       |
>>  |  SEC2              |
>>  |  SEC2              |
>>  |  FOOTNOTES         |
>>  +--------------------+
>>  |     POSTAMBLE      |
>>  +--------------------+
>>
>> Better:
>>
>>  +-----+--------------+
>>  | TOC |  TITLE       |
>>  |     |  SEC-1       |
>>  |     |  SEC2        |
>>  |     |  SEC3        |
>>  |     |  FOOTNOTES   |
>>  +--------------------+
>>  |     POSTAMBLE      |
>>  +--------------------+
>>
>>
>> And this one here would be nice (all navigational elements visible on
>> load):
>>
>>  +-----+--------------+-----+
>>  | TOC |  TITLE       | LOT |
>>  |     |  SEC-1       +-----+
>>  |     |  SEC2        | LOF |
>>  |     |  SEC3        +-----+
>>  |     |  FOOTNOTES   | BIB |
>>  +-----+--------------+-----+
>>  |        POSTAMBLE         |
>>  +--------------------------+
>>
>> Some people (see drupal) put the postamble into the right/center column
>> for two and three column layout respectively. I don't like that very
>> much.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What we should do before we change anything, is to experiment with one
>> simple document and different stylesheets, to ensure everything works
>> the way we want it to.
>>
>> I'll set up some with the different aproaches and try to add different
>> CSS stylesheets. Our aim must be to make many different layouts possible
>> (we will never make _all_ possible layouts feasable though).
>>
>>
>>
>> Important layouts are:
>>
>>  | Name                    | example          |
>>  |-------------------------+------------------|
>>  | Fixed TOC               | orgmode.org      |
>>  | Floating TOC            | orgmode.org/worg |
>>  | Please add more here...                    |
>>
>>  The usual page-flow will always stay what it is as long as no special
>>  styles are added.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>   Sebastian
>>
>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>>>       <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>>>>         the toc
>>>>>>       </div>
>>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>>>       All the rest of the content goes here
>>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     <div id="postamble">
>>>>>>       postamble
>>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   </div>
>>>>>> </div>
>>>>>> </body>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
>>>>>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
>>>>>>   padding or margin at all!
>>>>>
>>>>> Can one not simply use .body for that?
>>>>>
>>>>>> - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
>>>>>> browsers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put the
>>>>>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
>>>>>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with the
>>>>>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
>>>>>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be able
>>>>>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>
>> --
>> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
>> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
>> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
>> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
>> Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
>> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>

--
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 14:38       ` Richard Riley
@ 2009-03-02 16:50         ` Sebastian Rose
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-02 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Riley; +Cc: org-mode

Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>
>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>>
>>>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>>> It's been a while since I've looked at my org set up. One thing that
>>>>> always struck me as a bit hacky was my use of
>>>>>
>>>>> :preamble "<div id='content'>
>>>>>
>>>>> and the corresponding postamble to enclose the exported web pages into a
>>>>> "container" div. Is there a better way to do this? I would think it
>>>>> would be a common enough need that by default or via an option all html
>>>>> should be enclosed in a "webcontainer" ID.
>>>>
>>>> While one container around everything makes it possible to center the
>>>> page horizontally, two containers make it possible to center the page
>>>> vertically as well.
>>>>
>>>> If we would go and change the structure once again, I'd even suggest the
>>>> following:
>>>>
>>>> <body>
>>>>   <div id="percent-50">         -- center the page if desired
>>>>     <div id="wrap">             -- center the page if desired
>>>
>>> Why always IDs as opposed to classes?
>>
>>
>> `percent-50' and `wrap' are there for a special purpose and unique in
>> that concern. `wrap' is the `content' you originally requested. I did
>> not use my brain and called it `wrap' without any annotation.
>
> "content" or "org-container". Wrap made no sense to me. It suggests word
> wrap in the context. wrapper would be better. Purely vocabulary issue.
>
>>
>>>>> :preamble "<div id='content'>
>>
>> I'd say they should have an ID assigned.
>
> Just an academic question : Why not a class?



Because it's supposed to be the exact entity, that contains exact all
the other stuff and shares no styles but those all <div> elements and
<body> share. A user could add another container "<div class='content'>"
and break the page layout.

But as no browser seems to force the uniquety of IDs, it doesn't yet
make a difference really.




>>> Can css selectors select based on a part of a name? If not then there is
>>> no link between column-1 and column-2. e.g in this convention how does
>>> one create a common style for all columns or all "sec-" objects?
>>
>> Aaah, OK, sorry for being unclear - a misunderstanding.
>>
>> I did *not* mean to _change_ the structure of the XHTML in it's
>> current
>
> FYI I have abandoned xhtml in the smalle bit of web UI I touch.. It is
> not cross platform/browser. Common concensus says make it html 4.01
> strict compliant.



I can't tell that, and I touch quite some UIs. XHTML is more rigid
though. Case sensitive and so on. It's what WEB-programming always was:
fiddling with different browsers, each of which having it's own
`standard' and finding the Lowest Common Denominator...
It doesn't really have to do anything with programming, where things
usually are well defined even accross different plattforms.

But I can say, that XHTML is just as crossbrowser as HTML. Validating
helps a lot though. 


>> form, but simply _add_ additional containers to partition the whole
>> thing (just as you suggested) and thus make it possible to move certain
>> groups of content around through CSS.
>>
>> All the "sec-" objects should go into `column-2'.
>
> I dont know/understand what you mean with "columns".
>
> Columns suggest layout in columns. It should simply be a "wrapper". That
> wrapper may or may not be CSSd to a column. It might be a float or a
> fixed position or .....


Yes, sorry - those where stupid names...


>> All the `sec-' objects share classes via the containers they live in:
>>
>>     <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>>     <div id="outline-container-2.1" class="outline-3">
>>
>> etc.
>
> Yes. Thats what I was suggesting but see later on regarding css descendants.
>
>>
>> That's already the case, and I think we don't need to change that.
>>
>
> There is still this difference between ID and class name. I'm not sure I
> see why.


Hmm - let's see...

Each of the elements has a class assigned, that is common to those on
the same level.

Some of them have an additional ID that makes it possible to address
exactly that very element:

<div id="outline-container-4.1" class="outline-3">
<h3 id="sec-4.1"><span class="section-number-3">4.1</span> Pi </h3>
<div class="outline-text-3" id="text-4.1">

The headline `PI' is no different from other headlines in the document
from JavaScript's or XML-Tools point of view. What makes the element
special, is just it's ID.

There could be a headline `PI' on the same level in any other Section of
the document. That's why we need the ID.

Sure you may use CSS-selectors like this, to style all the level 3 <p>
elements:

.outline-text-3 p
{
  color:green;
}





>>
>> * Suggestions for names
>>
>>   `wrap' is, what they use in typolight and some other CMSs. But
>>   `content' sounds good to me too.
>>
>>   <div id="center">
>>     <div id="wrap"><!-- or `content' -->
>>
>>       <div id="box-1">
>>         <div id="table-of-contents">
>>          ...
>>         </div>
>>       </div><!-- end of box-1 -->
>>
>>       <div id="box-2">
>
> where is the "base" class for box-2?
>
> The issue I see is that theres no way using this method to change all
> "sec-" entries in an outline container for example since you cant use
> css descendants since all have *unique* class names and IDs.


Hihi, I just see what you mean (below). I seem to have no luck in
answering your mails ;-)

In this example below it seems that `outline-2' has the `2' in it's class
name, because it's the class of the container that holds section 2. But
that's not true. Sorry for being so stupid.
Each container on depth 2 has this class name assigned.
So you may change the number in all IDs and the section number to 14.


>>         <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>>           <h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">2</span> Konfiguration </h2>
>>           <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-2">
>
> and another div here is what?
>
>
> ,----
> | >           <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-3">
> `----
>
> ?

My next being unclear :-/

I'd better copy and paste from real exported stuff:

<div id="outline-container-6" class="outline-2">
  <h2 id="sec-6"><span class="section-number-2">6</span> Computer </h2>
  <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-6">
     content of section 6
  </div>

  <div id="outline-container-6.1" class="outline-3">
    <h3 id="sec-6.1"><span class="section-number-3">6.1</span> Linux </h3>
    <div class="outline-text-3" id="text-6.1">
       content of section 6.1
    </div>
  </div>

  <div id="outline-container-6.2" class="outline-3">
    <h3 id="sec-6.2"><span class="section-number-3">6.2</span> Linux </h3>
    <div class="outline-text-3" id="text-6.2">
       content of section 6.2
    </div>
  </div>

</div>


> I'm not sure I understand the need for the container container. Maybe I
> need to Google up centering vertically.


Hrm, just ignore me. We can center the page vertically without an additional
container.


Regard,

  Sebastian

--
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 16:00             ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2009-03-02 17:03               ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-03-02 18:12                 ` Richard Riley
  2009-03-02 18:54                 ` Sebastian Rose
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-03-02 17:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Sebastian Rose; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley


On Mar 2, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:

>
> OK - I failed badly :-(
>
> I think we can skip the extra <div> element around the TOC.
>
> Here's why:
>
>  As it looks now, the problem with the fixed TOC does not go away. My
>  old trick seems to work only for HTML doctype and/or tables...   
> Should
>  have tested that one before...
>
>  So until now it's not getting any better - but more complicated.
>
>  And all those stlyes in the stylesheet become confusing :-/
>
>  The main problem is the height of the TOC on orgmode.org. The <div>
>  element grows and shrinks in height when we resize the window.
>  Unfortunately, we can't set the height property to 100% because of  
> the
>  unicorn. Instead I set it to 60% to support Netbooks - but 60% will  
> be
>  too high if the window is resized to be under a certain height. And
>  60% is low, if the window fills a bigger screen (> 17')
>
>  Seems I can't solve that by adding structural elements. The only
>  element I could think of would be a table with height=100% and the
>  unicorn in the first row (fixed height), TOC in the second row (no
>  height property).
>
>
> Most of this seems to be true for the other containers I thought of.
>
>
> Just one around everything and one around the all the sections and
> footnotes seems to make sense so far.


So one that wraps everything in body.  OK, let's call it "content".

And then one that does contains the sections and footnotes, but
not the title, preamble, and postamble?  Am I understanding this
correctly?

- Carsten




>
>
>
>
>
> Maybe someone finds another way of `skinning' the XHTML output in the
> future.
>
>
>
> How about adding custom HTML before and after writing the main
> containers?
>
> Can't we something like this here ? :
>
>   (defun my-export-add-custom-html(when, which)
>      "when is either 'before' or 'after', which is one of:
>        - 'body'
>        - 'title'
>        - 'toc'
>        - 'contents'
>        - 'lot'
>       ..."
>     (when (string= "body" which)
>        (if (string= "before" when)
>          "<div id="\"wrap\">")
>          "</div>")
>   )
>
>
> In org-publish-project-alist:
>
>   :custom-html-funcion   my-export-add-custom-html
>
> and perhaps:
>
>   :org-export-html-sequence '("title" "toc" "content" "footnotes")
>   ;; getting wild and offtopic:
>   :custom-id-function   my-org-id-was-found
>
>
> That way the output would win flexibility and get closer to an generic
> export. One could implement a table based layout, or reuse containers
> from the CMS the pages should be used in.  Not to forget `<?php
> ..... ?>' or similar.
>
> We would lose the guaranty that anything validates or org-info.js  
> works
> with the resulting structure though. But we could provide different
> `themes' on Worg which are guarantied to work (and enhanced by the
> comunity).
>
>
> Or is all this completely weired?
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>  Sebastian
>
>
>
> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>> OK, so I will wait with making changes until you have
>> done some experimentation, maybe put that up somewhere,
>> so that others can have a look?
>
>
>
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>> On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>>
>>> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>>>> Hi Sebastian,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 2, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Suggestions for names
>>>>>
>>>>> `wrap' is, what they use in typolight and some other CMSs. But
>>>>> `content' sounds good to me too.
>>>>>
>>>>> <div id="center">
>>>>>  <div id="wrap"><!-- or `content' -->
>>>>>
>>>>>    <div id="box-1">
>>>>>      <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>>>       ...
>>>>>      </div>
>>>>>    </div><!-- end of box-1 -->
>>>>>
>>>>>    <div id="box-2">
>>>>>      <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>>>>>        <h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">2</span>  
>>>>> Konfiguration
>>>>> </h2>
>>>>>        <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-2">
>>>>>         ...
>>>>>        </div>
>>>>>      </div>
>>>>>      ... more sections, footnotes ...
>>>>>    </div><!-- end of box-2 -->
>>>>>
>>>>>    <div id="postamble">
>>>>>      postamble
>>>>>    </div>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  </div><!-- end of wrap -->
>>>>> </div><!-- end of center -->
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How about these names for additional divs
>>>>
>>>> content-wrap
>>>> content         ;; I think we should just have one around the  
>>>> entire content.
>>>>               ;; should this also contain the <h1> with the page  
>>>> title?
>>>>               ;; I think yes
>>>
>>> OK, one might be enough. There's a cross-browser CSS to center the  
>>> contents
>>> vertically with only one container:
>>>
>>> #content-wrap
>>> {
>>> ...
>>> margin-top:auto;
>>> margin-bottom:auto;
>>> vertical-align:middle;
>>> ...
>>> }
>>>
>>> And yes,  the title should be inside `content-wrap'
>>>
>>>> table-of-contents-wrap
>>>>
>>>> footnote-wrap
>>>> bibliography-wrap
>>>> postamble-wrap
>>>>
>>>> So we put all the stuff into specific "wrap" containers.
>>>> I don't so much like "column-1", because that looks fine
>>>> if you use it for columns, but it looks confusing if you
>>>> use it for something else...
>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>> How about `org(-container ?) for the outer most container? Think of
>>> exporting the content only for inclusion into some framework. In  
>>> that
>>> case `org' seems a natural name.
>>>
>>> Anyway, for sake of the TOC on the left, we should also wrap all  
>>> the rest
>>> of the contents in one <div> with postamble being the only  
>>> exception.
>>>
>>> The tree would simply be:
>>>
>>> org
>>>   title
>>>   table-of-contents-wrap
>>>      table-of-contents
>>>   content-wrap
>>>      sec-1...    - unchanged
>>>      footnotes   - unchanged
>>>      bibliography
>>>   postamble    // already there
>>>
>>> The reason for the container around everything excluding title,  
>>> TOC and
>>> postamble is, that I don't want the TOC to live in the left margin  
>>> of
>>> the <body>, the way it does now.
>>>
>>> `float:left' for the TOC will cause the page to look funny in the  
>>> most
>>> cases:
>>>
>>> +-----+--------------+
>>> | TOC |  TITLE       |
>>> +-----+  SEC-1       |
>>> |  SEC2              |
>>> |  SEC2              |
>>> |  FOOTNOTES         |
>>> +--------------------+
>>> |     POSTAMBLE      |
>>> +--------------------+
>>>
>>> Better:
>>>
>>> +-----+--------------+
>>> | TOC |  TITLE       |
>>> |     |  SEC-1       |
>>> |     |  SEC2        |
>>> |     |  SEC3        |
>>> |     |  FOOTNOTES   |
>>> +--------------------+
>>> |     POSTAMBLE      |
>>> +--------------------+
>>>
>>>
>>> And this one here would be nice (all navigational elements visible  
>>> on
>>> load):
>>>
>>> +-----+--------------+-----+
>>> | TOC |  TITLE       | LOT |
>>> |     |  SEC-1       +-----+
>>> |     |  SEC2        | LOF |
>>> |     |  SEC3        +-----+
>>> |     |  FOOTNOTES   | BIB |
>>> +-----+--------------+-----+
>>> |        POSTAMBLE         |
>>> +--------------------------+
>>>
>>> Some people (see drupal) put the postamble into the right/center  
>>> column
>>> for two and three column layout respectively. I don't like that very
>>> much.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What we should do before we change anything, is to experiment with  
>>> one
>>> simple document and different stylesheets, to ensure everything  
>>> works
>>> the way we want it to.
>>>
>>> I'll set up some with the different aproaches and try to add  
>>> different
>>> CSS stylesheets. Our aim must be to make many different layouts  
>>> possible
>>> (we will never make _all_ possible layouts feasable though).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Important layouts are:
>>>
>>> | Name                    | example          |
>>> |-------------------------+------------------|
>>> | Fixed TOC               | orgmode.org      |
>>> | Floating TOC            | orgmode.org/worg |
>>> | Please add more here...                    |
>>>
>>> The usual page-flow will always stay what it is as long as no  
>>> special
>>> styles are added.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>  Sebastian
>>>
>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>>>>      <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>>>>>        the toc
>>>>>>>      </div>
>>>>>>>    </div>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>>>>      All the rest of the content goes here
>>>>>>>    </div>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    <div id="postamble">
>>>>>>>      postamble
>>>>>>>    </div>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  </div>
>>>>>>> </div>
>>>>>>> </body>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in  
>>>>>>> IE. In
>>>>>>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should  
>>>>>>> have _no_
>>>>>>>  padding or margin at all!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can one not simply use .body for that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout  
>>>>>>> across
>>>>>>> browsers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do  
>>>>>>> to put the
>>>>>>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the  
>>>>>>> level 1
>>>>>>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the  
>>>>>>> problems with the
>>>>>>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble')  
>>>>>>> make it
>>>>>>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there,  
>>>>>>> to be able
>>>>>>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449  
>>> Hannover
>>> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
>>> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
>>> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
>>> Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
>>> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>>
>
> --
> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449  
> Hannover
> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
> Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
> Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 17:03               ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-03-02 18:12                 ` Richard Riley
  2009-03-02 18:56                   ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-02 19:03                   ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-02 18:54                 ` Sebastian Rose
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Richard Riley @ 2009-03-02 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> On Mar 2, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>
>>
>> OK - I failed badly :-(
>>
>> I think we can skip the extra <div> element around the TOC.
>>
>> Here's why:
>>
>>  As it looks now, the problem with the fixed TOC does not go away. My
>>  old trick seems to work only for HTML doctype and/or tables...
>> Should
>>  have tested that one before...
>>
>>  So until now it's not getting any better - but more complicated.
>>
>>  And all those stlyes in the stylesheet become confusing :-/
>>
>>  The main problem is the height of the TOC on orgmode.org. The <div>
>>  element grows and shrinks in height when we resize the window.
>>  Unfortunately, we can't set the height property to 100% because of
>> the
>>  unicorn. Instead I set it to 60% to support Netbooks - but 60% will
>> be
>>  too high if the window is resized to be under a certain height. And
>>  60% is low, if the window fills a bigger screen (> 17')
>>
>>  Seems I can't solve that by adding structural elements. The only
>>  element I could think of would be a table with height=100% and the
>>  unicorn in the first row (fixed height), TOC in the second row (no
>>  height property).
>>
>>
>> Most of this seems to be true for the other containers I thought of.
>>
>>
>> Just one around everything and one around the all the sections and
>> footnotes seems to make sense so far.
>
>
> So one that wraps everything in body.  OK, let's call it "content".
>
> And then one that does contains the sections and footnotes, but
> not the title, preamble, and postamble?  Am I understanding this
> correctly?
>
> - Carsten

So long as every thing has a div we can then use descendants of the main
content to CSS any elements.

I see the most important thing (and making it simple) is just to assign
a class ID at the org file level

#class=myclass
..stuff
#endclass

This generates

<div class="myclass">
..stuff
</div>

at html export and whatever for anything else.

I really dont see the plethora of sec-id# that are currently generated
being really useful since they change on each export if new stuff is
entered. This make existing CSS redundant unfortunately.

Sebastian?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 17:03               ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-03-02 18:12                 ` Richard Riley
@ 2009-03-02 18:54                 ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-02 19:06                   ` Sebastian Rose
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-02 18:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley



Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> On Mar 2, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>
>>
>> OK - I failed badly :-(
>>
>> I think we can skip the extra <div> element around the TOC.
>>
>> Here's why:
>>
>>  As it looks now, the problem with the fixed TOC does not go away. My
>>  old trick seems to work only for HTML doctype and/or tables...  Should
>>  have tested that one before...
>>
>>  So until now it's not getting any better - but more complicated.
>>
>>  And all those stlyes in the stylesheet become confusing :-/
>>
>>  The main problem is the height of the TOC on orgmode.org. The <div>
>>  element grows and shrinks in height when we resize the window.
>>  Unfortunately, we can't set the height property to 100% because of the
>>  unicorn. Instead I set it to 60% to support Netbooks - but 60% will be
>>  too high if the window is resized to be under a certain height. And
>>  60% is low, if the window fills a bigger screen (> 17')
>>
>>  Seems I can't solve that by adding structural elements. The only
>>  element I could think of would be a table with height=100% and the
>>  unicorn in the first row (fixed height), TOC in the second row (no
>>  height property).
>>
>>
>> Most of this seems to be true for the other containers I thought of.
>>
>>
>> Just one around everything and one around the all the sections and
>> footnotes seems to make sense so far.
>
>
> So one that wraps everything in body.  OK, let's call it "content".
>
> And then one that does contains the sections and footnotes, but
> not the title, preamble, and postamble?  Am I understanding this
> correctly?


Just the outer one then. As long as noone uses an container we shouldn't
add it.

Even the inner one with all the sections is merely a matter of taste.

What do you think about the hook idea in my previous mail? Was that to
weired? It thought that would make complex layouts possible without
poluting the *.org sources with things like

  @<div>....

and would keep org-exp.el simple too.


Best,

  Sebastian


> - Carsten
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe someone finds another way of `skinning' the XHTML output in the
>> future.
>>
>>
>>
>> How about adding custom HTML before and after writing the main
>> containers?
>>
>> Can't we something like this here ? :
>>
>>   (defun my-export-add-custom-html(when, which)
>>      "when is either 'before' or 'after', which is one of:
>>        - 'body'
>>        - 'title'
>>        - 'toc'
>>        - 'contents'
>>        - 'lot'
>>       ..."
>>     (when (string= "body" which)
>>        (if (string= "before" when)
>>          "<div id="\"wrap\">")
>>          "</div>")
>>   )
>>
>>
>> In org-publish-project-alist:
>>
>>   :custom-html-funcion   my-export-add-custom-html
>>
>> and perhaps:
>>
>>   :org-export-html-sequence '("title" "toc" "content" "footnotes")
>>   ;; getting wild and offtopic:
>>   :custom-id-function   my-org-id-was-found
>>
>>
>> That way the output would win flexibility and get closer to an generic
>> export. One could implement a table based layout, or reuse containers
>> from the CMS the pages should be used in.  Not to forget `<?php
>> ..... ?>' or similar.
>>
>> We would lose the guaranty that anything validates or org-info.js works
>> with the resulting structure though. But we could provide different
>> `themes' on Worg which are guarantied to work (and enhanced by the
>> comunity).
>>
>>
>> Or is all this completely weired?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>  Sebastian
>>
>>
>>
>> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>>> OK, so I will wait with making changes until you have
>>> done some experimentation, maybe put that up somewhere,
>>> so that others can have a look?
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>> On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>>>>> Hi Sebastian,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 2, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Suggestions for names
>>>>>>
>>>>>> `wrap' is, what they use in typolight and some other CMSs. But
>>>>>> `content' sounds good to me too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <div id="center">
>>>>>>  <div id="wrap"><!-- or `content' -->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    <div id="box-1">
>>>>>>      <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>>>>       ...
>>>>>>      </div>
>>>>>>    </div><!-- end of box-1 -->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    <div id="box-2">
>>>>>>      <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>>>>>>        <h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">2</span>
>>>>>> Konfiguration
>>>>>> </h2>
>>>>>>        <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-2">
>>>>>>         ...
>>>>>>        </div>
>>>>>>      </div>
>>>>>>      ... more sections, footnotes ...
>>>>>>    </div><!-- end of box-2 -->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    <div id="postamble">
>>>>>>      postamble
>>>>>>    </div>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  </div><!-- end of wrap -->
>>>>>> </div><!-- end of center -->
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How about these names for additional divs
>>>>>
>>>>> content-wrap
>>>>> content         ;; I think we should just have one around the entire
>>>>> content.
>>>>>               ;; should this also contain the <h1> with the page title?
>>>>>               ;; I think yes
>>>>
>>>> OK, one might be enough. There's a cross-browser CSS to center the contents
>>>> vertically with only one container:
>>>>
>>>> #content-wrap
>>>> {
>>>> ...
>>>> margin-top:auto;
>>>> margin-bottom:auto;
>>>> vertical-align:middle;
>>>> ...
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> And yes,  the title should be inside `content-wrap'
>>>>
>>>>> table-of-contents-wrap
>>>>>
>>>>> footnote-wrap
>>>>> bibliography-wrap
>>>>> postamble-wrap
>>>>>
>>>>> So we put all the stuff into specific "wrap" containers.
>>>>> I don't so much like "column-1", because that looks fine
>>>>> if you use it for columns, but it looks confusing if you
>>>>> use it for something else...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Agreed.
>>>>
>>>> How about `org(-container ?) for the outer most container? Think of
>>>> exporting the content only for inclusion into some framework. In that
>>>> case `org' seems a natural name.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, for sake of the TOC on the left, we should also wrap all the rest
>>>> of the contents in one <div> with postamble being the only exception.
>>>>
>>>> The tree would simply be:
>>>>
>>>> org
>>>>   title
>>>>   table-of-contents-wrap
>>>>      table-of-contents
>>>>   content-wrap
>>>>      sec-1...    - unchanged
>>>>      footnotes   - unchanged
>>>>      bibliography
>>>>   postamble    // already there
>>>>
>>>> The reason for the container around everything excluding title, TOC and
>>>> postamble is, that I don't want the TOC to live in the left margin of
>>>> the <body>, the way it does now.
>>>>
>>>> `float:left' for the TOC will cause the page to look funny in the most
>>>> cases:
>>>>
>>>> +-----+--------------+
>>>> | TOC |  TITLE       |
>>>> +-----+  SEC-1       |
>>>> |  SEC2              |
>>>> |  SEC2              |
>>>> |  FOOTNOTES         |
>>>> +--------------------+
>>>> |     POSTAMBLE      |
>>>> +--------------------+
>>>>
>>>> Better:
>>>>
>>>> +-----+--------------+
>>>> | TOC |  TITLE       |
>>>> |     |  SEC-1       |
>>>> |     |  SEC2        |
>>>> |     |  SEC3        |
>>>> |     |  FOOTNOTES   |
>>>> +--------------------+
>>>> |     POSTAMBLE      |
>>>> +--------------------+
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And this one here would be nice (all navigational elements visible on
>>>> load):
>>>>
>>>> +-----+--------------+-----+
>>>> | TOC |  TITLE       | LOT |
>>>> |     |  SEC-1       +-----+
>>>> |     |  SEC2        | LOF |
>>>> |     |  SEC3        +-----+
>>>> |     |  FOOTNOTES   | BIB |
>>>> +-----+--------------+-----+
>>>> |        POSTAMBLE         |
>>>> +--------------------------+
>>>>
>>>> Some people (see drupal) put the postamble into the right/center column
>>>> for two and three column layout respectively. I don't like that very
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What we should do before we change anything, is to experiment with one
>>>> simple document and different stylesheets, to ensure everything works
>>>> the way we want it to.
>>>>
>>>> I'll set up some with the different aproaches and try to add different
>>>> CSS stylesheets. Our aim must be to make many different layouts possible
>>>> (we will never make _all_ possible layouts feasable though).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Important layouts are:
>>>>
>>>> | Name                    | example          |
>>>> |-------------------------+------------------|
>>>> | Fixed TOC               | orgmode.org      |
>>>> | Floating TOC            | orgmode.org/worg |
>>>> | Please add more here...                    |
>>>>
>>>> The usual page-flow will always stay what it is as long as no special
>>>> styles are added.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>  Sebastian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> - Carsten
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>>>>>      <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>>>>>>        the toc
>>>>>>>>      </div>
>>>>>>>>    </div>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>>>>>      All the rest of the content goes here
>>>>>>>>    </div>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    <div id="postamble">
>>>>>>>>      postamble
>>>>>>>>    </div>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  </div>
>>>>>>>> </div>
>>>>>>>> </body>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
>>>>>>>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
>>>>>>>>  padding or margin at all!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can one not simply use .body for that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
>>>>>>>> browsers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put the
>>>>>>>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
>>>>>>>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with the
>>>>>>>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
>>>>>>>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be able
>>>>>>>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,


--
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 18:12                 ` Richard Riley
@ 2009-03-02 18:56                   ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-02 20:22                     ` Richard Riley
  2009-03-02 19:03                   ` Sebastian Rose
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-02 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Riley; +Cc: org-mode

Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
> I really dont see the plethora of sec-id# that are currently generated
> being really useful since they change on each export if new stuff is
> entered. This make existing CSS redundant unfortunately.

The IDs in the section headings are not meant for CSS styling. That's
what the classes are for.


Regards,

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 18:12                 ` Richard Riley
  2009-03-02 18:56                   ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2009-03-02 19:03                   ` Sebastian Rose
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-02 19:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Riley; +Cc: org-mode

Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
> I really dont see the plethora of sec-id# that are currently generated
> being really useful since they change on each export if new stuff is
> entered. This make existing CSS redundant unfortunately.


Forgot to say: the ID's are, what the links in the TOC jump to. Also,
they're needed for org-info.js to resolve internal links to sections in
general.

Best,

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 18:54                 ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2009-03-02 19:06                   ` Sebastian Rose
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-02 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>> So one that wraps everything in body.  OK, let's call it "content".
>>
>> And then one that does contains the sections and footnotes, but
>> not the title, preamble, and postamble?  Am I understanding this
>> correctly?
>
>
> Just the outer one then. As long as noone uses an container we shouldn't
> add it.
>
> Even the inner one with all the sections is merely a matter of taste.

Sorry for replying to my own mail.

By `taste' I mean the possible layouts when section _and_ footnotes & Co
are wrapped into one container, versus just sections in one container
but not footnotes & Co

I really should make a training in reading and writing mails :)


Regards,

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 18:56                   ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2009-03-02 20:22                     ` Richard Riley
  2009-03-03  0:52                       ` Sebastian Rose
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Richard Riley @ 2009-03-02 20:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Sebastian Rose; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>> I really dont see the plethora of sec-id# that are currently generated
>> being really useful since they change on each export if new stuff is
>> entered. This make existing CSS redundant unfortunately.
>
> The IDs in the section headings are not meant for CSS styling. That's
> what the classes are for.
>
>
> Regards,

IDs are frequently used for styling as well as classes.

-- 
 important and urgent problems of the technology of today are no longer the satisfactions of the primary needs or of archetypal wishes, but the reparation of the evils and damages by the technology of yesterday.  ~Dennis Gabor, Innovations:  Scientific, Technological and Social, 1970

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-02 20:22                     ` Richard Riley
@ 2009-03-03  0:52                       ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-03  1:16                         ` Richard Riley
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-03  0:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Riley; +Cc: org-mode

Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>
>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>> I really dont see the plethora of sec-id# that are currently generated
>>> being really useful since they change on each export if new stuff is
>>> entered. This make existing CSS redundant unfortunately.
>>
>> The IDs in the section headings are not meant for CSS styling. That's
>> what the classes are for.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>
> IDs are frequently used for styling as well as classes.


Well, in this case, since we never know the ID of a section in
advance... 


-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-03  0:52                       ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2009-03-03  1:16                         ` Richard Riley
  2009-03-03 10:02                           ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Richard Riley @ 2009-03-03  1:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Sebastian Rose; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>
>>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>> I really dont see the plethora of sec-id# that are currently generated
>>>> being really useful since they change on each export if new stuff is
>>>> entered. This make existing CSS redundant unfortunately.
>>>
>>> The IDs in the section headings are not meant for CSS styling. That's
>>> what the classes are for.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>
>> IDs are frequently used for styling as well as classes.
>
>
> Well, in this case, since we never know the ID of a section in
> advance... 

Or haven't known in the past. See other post. We probably need to be
able to control the class and/or ID of individual sections at the higher
level.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-03  1:16                         ` Richard Riley
@ 2009-03-03 10:02                           ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-03-03 10:14                             ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-03 10:57                             ` Sebastian Rose
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-03-03 10:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Riley; +Cc: org-mode

I have now added a "content" container around all of body.

- Carsten

On Mar 3, 2009, at 2:16 AM, Richard Riley wrote:

> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>
>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>>
>>>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>>> I really dont see the plethora of sec-id# that are currently  
>>>>> generated
>>>>> being really useful since they change on each export if new  
>>>>> stuff is
>>>>> entered. This make existing CSS redundant unfortunately.
>>>>
>>>> The IDs in the section headings are not meant for CSS styling.  
>>>> That's
>>>> what the classes are for.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> IDs are frequently used for styling as well as classes.
>>
>>
>> Well, in this case, since we never know the ID of a section in
>> advance...
>
> Or haven't known in the past. See other post. We probably need to be
> able to control the class and/or ID of individual sections at the  
> higher
> level.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-03 10:02                           ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-03-03 10:14                             ` Sebastian Rose
  2009-03-03 10:50                               ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-03-03 10:57                             ` Sebastian Rose
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-03 10:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> I have now added a "content" container around all of body.
>
> - Carsten


OK, I'll go and adjust org-info.js as needed now.

Best,

  Sebastian

>
> On Mar 3, 2009, at 2:16 AM, Richard Riley wrote:
>
>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>
>>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>>>> I really dont see the plethora of sec-id# that are currently generated
>>>>>> being really useful since they change on each export if new stuff is
>>>>>> entered. This make existing CSS redundant unfortunately.
>>>>>
>>>>> The IDs in the section headings are not meant for CSS styling. That's
>>>>> what the classes are for.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> IDs are frequently used for styling as well as classes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, in this case, since we never know the ID of a section in
>>> advance...
>>
>> Or haven't known in the past. See other post. We probably need to be
>> able to control the class and/or ID of individual sections at the higher
>> level.
>

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-03 10:14                             ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2009-03-03 10:50                               ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-03-03 10:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Sebastian Rose; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley

Thanks.

- Carsten

On Mar 3, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Sebastian Rose wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>> I have now added a "content" container around all of body.
>>
>> - Carsten
>
>
> OK, I'll go and adjust org-info.js as needed now.
>
> Best,
>
>  Sebastian
>
>>
>> On Mar 3, 2009, at 2:16 AM, Richard Riley wrote:
>>
>>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>>
>>>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> I really dont see the plethora of sec-id# that are currently  
>>>>>>> generated
>>>>>>> being really useful since they change on each export if new  
>>>>>>> stuff is
>>>>>>> entered. This make existing CSS redundant unfortunately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The IDs in the section headings are not meant for CSS styling.  
>>>>>> That's
>>>>>> what the classes are for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> IDs are frequently used for styling as well as classes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, in this case, since we never know the ID of a section in
>>>> advance...
>>>
>>> Or haven't known in the past. See other post. We probably need to be
>>> able to control the class and/or ID of individual sections at the  
>>> higher
>>> level.
>>
>
> -- 
> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449  
> Hannover
> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
> Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
> Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: export and containers
  2009-03-03 10:02                           ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-03-03 10:14                             ` Sebastian Rose
@ 2009-03-03 10:57                             ` Sebastian Rose
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Sebastian Rose @ 2009-03-03 10:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: org-mode, Richard Riley


OK. An updated version of org-info.js in now available on github as
well, as in worg.git.

NOTE: you MUST UPDATE ORG-INFO.JS, if you use the current git version.

The changes to org-info.js are backward compatible.
Hence you don't need to re-export everything.

Regards,

   Sebastian

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> I have now added a "content" container around all of body.
>
> - Carsten
>
> On Mar 3, 2009, at 2:16 AM, Richard Riley wrote:
>
>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>
>>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>> Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>>>> I really dont see the plethora of sec-id# that are currently generated
>>>>>> being really useful since they change on each export if new stuff is
>>>>>> entered. This make existing CSS redundant unfortunately.
>>>>>
>>>>> The IDs in the section headings are not meant for CSS styling. That's
>>>>> what the classes are for.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> IDs are frequently used for styling as well as classes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, in this case, since we never know the ID of a section in
>>> advance...
>>
>> Or haven't known in the past. See other post. We probably need to be
>> able to control the class and/or ID of individual sections at the higher
>> level.
>

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2009-03-03 10:54 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 25+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-02-28 10:29 export and containers Richard Riley
2009-02-28 11:37 ` Sebastian Rose
2009-02-28 19:23   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-28 21:09     ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02  8:03   ` Richard Riley
2009-03-02  9:29     ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 11:11       ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-02 11:58         ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 13:10           ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-02 16:00             ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 17:03               ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-02 18:12                 ` Richard Riley
2009-03-02 18:56                   ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 20:22                     ` Richard Riley
2009-03-03  0:52                       ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-03  1:16                         ` Richard Riley
2009-03-03 10:02                           ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-03 10:14                             ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-03 10:50                               ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-03 10:57                             ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 19:03                   ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 18:54                 ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 19:06                   ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 14:38       ` Richard Riley
2009-03-02 16:50         ` Sebastian Rose

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