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From: Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de>
To: Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl>
Cc: org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>,
	Richard Riley <rileyrgdev@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: export and containers
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:00:56 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87r61f7w3r.fsf@kassiopeya.MSHEIMNETZ> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3B159DE3-C418-41C8-9422-E0743D789E2E@uva.nl> (Carsten Dominik's message of "Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:10:46 +0100")


OK - I failed badly :-(

I think we can skip the extra <div> element around the TOC. 

Here's why:

  As it looks now, the problem with the fixed TOC does not go away. My
  old trick seems to work only for HTML doctype and/or tables...  Should
  have tested that one before...

  So until now it's not getting any better - but more complicated.

  And all those stlyes in the stylesheet become confusing :-/

  The main problem is the height of the TOC on orgmode.org. The <div>
  element grows and shrinks in height when we resize the window.
  Unfortunately, we can't set the height property to 100% because of the
  unicorn. Instead I set it to 60% to support Netbooks - but 60% will be
  too high if the window is resized to be under a certain height. And
  60% is low, if the window fills a bigger screen (> 17')

  Seems I can't solve that by adding structural elements. The only
  element I could think of would be a table with height=100% and the
  unicorn in the first row (fixed height), TOC in the second row (no
  height property).


Most of this seems to be true for the other containers I thought of.


Just one around everything and one around the all the sections and
footnotes seems to make sense so far.




Maybe someone finds another way of `skinning' the XHTML output in the
future. 



How about adding custom HTML before and after writing the main
containers?

Can't we something like this here ? :

   (defun my-export-add-custom-html(when, which)
      "when is either 'before' or 'after', which is one of:
        - 'body'
        - 'title'
        - 'toc'
        - 'contents'
        - 'lot'
       ..."
     (when (string= "body" which)
        (if (string= "before" when)
          "<div id="\"wrap\">")
          "</div>")
   )


In org-publish-project-alist:

   :custom-html-funcion   my-export-add-custom-html

and perhaps:

   :org-export-html-sequence '("title" "toc" "content" "footnotes")
   ;; getting wild and offtopic:
   :custom-id-function   my-org-id-was-found


That way the output would win flexibility and get closer to an generic
export. One could implement a table based layout, or reuse containers
from the CMS the pages should be used in.  Not to forget `<?php
..... ?>' or similar.

We would lose the guaranty that anything validates or org-info.js works
with the resulting structure though. But we could provide different
`themes' on Worg which are guarantied to work (and enhanced by the
comunity).


Or is all this completely weired?




Best,

  Sebastian



Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
> OK, so I will wait with making changes until you have
> done some experimentation, maybe put that up somewhere,
> so that others can have a look?



>
> - Carsten
>
> On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>
>> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:
>>> Hi Sebastian,
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 2, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Sebastian Rose wrote:
>>>>
>>>> * Suggestions for names
>>>>
>>>> `wrap' is, what they use in typolight and some other CMSs. But
>>>> `content' sounds good to me too.
>>>>
>>>> <div id="center">
>>>>   <div id="wrap"><!-- or `content' -->
>>>>
>>>>     <div id="box-1">
>>>>       <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>>        ...
>>>>       </div>
>>>>     </div><!-- end of box-1 -->
>>>>
>>>>     <div id="box-2">
>>>>       <div id="outline-container-2" class="outline-2">
>>>>         <h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">2</span> Konfiguration
>>>> </h2>
>>>>         <div class="outline-text-2" id="text-2">
>>>>          ...
>>>>         </div>
>>>>       </div>
>>>>       ... more sections, footnotes ...
>>>>     </div><!-- end of box-2 -->
>>>>
>>>>     <div id="postamble">
>>>>       postamble
>>>>     </div>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   </div><!-- end of wrap -->
>>>> </div><!-- end of center -->
>>>
>>>
>>> How about these names for additional divs
>>>
>>> content-wrap
>>> content         ;; I think we should just have one around the entire content.
>>>                ;; should this also contain the <h1> with the page title?
>>>                ;; I think yes
>>
>> OK, one might be enough. There's a cross-browser CSS to center the contents
>> vertically with only one container:
>>
>> #content-wrap
>> {
>>  ...
>>  margin-top:auto;
>>  margin-bottom:auto;
>>  vertical-align:middle;
>>  ...
>> }
>>
>> And yes,  the title should be inside `content-wrap'
>>
>>> table-of-contents-wrap
>>>
>>> footnote-wrap
>>> bibliography-wrap
>>> postamble-wrap
>>>
>>> So we put all the stuff into specific "wrap" containers.
>>> I don't so much like "column-1", because that looks fine
>>> if you use it for columns, but it looks confusing if you
>>> use it for something else...
>>
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> How about `org(-container ?) for the outer most container? Think of
>> exporting the content only for inclusion into some framework. In that
>> case `org' seems a natural name.
>>
>> Anyway, for sake of the TOC on the left, we should also wrap all the rest
>> of the contents in one <div> with postamble being the only exception.
>>
>> The tree would simply be:
>>
>> org
>>    title
>>    table-of-contents-wrap
>>       table-of-contents
>>    content-wrap
>>       sec-1...    - unchanged
>>       footnotes   - unchanged
>>       bibliography
>>    postamble    // already there
>>
>> The reason for the container around everything excluding title, TOC and
>> postamble is, that I don't want the TOC to live in the left margin of
>> the <body>, the way it does now.
>>
>> `float:left' for the TOC will cause the page to look funny in the most
>> cases:
>>
>>  +-----+--------------+
>>  | TOC |  TITLE       |
>>  +-----+  SEC-1       |
>>  |  SEC2              |
>>  |  SEC2              |
>>  |  FOOTNOTES         |
>>  +--------------------+
>>  |     POSTAMBLE      |
>>  +--------------------+
>>
>> Better:
>>
>>  +-----+--------------+
>>  | TOC |  TITLE       |
>>  |     |  SEC-1       |
>>  |     |  SEC2        |
>>  |     |  SEC3        |
>>  |     |  FOOTNOTES   |
>>  +--------------------+
>>  |     POSTAMBLE      |
>>  +--------------------+
>>
>>
>> And this one here would be nice (all navigational elements visible on
>> load):
>>
>>  +-----+--------------+-----+
>>  | TOC |  TITLE       | LOT |
>>  |     |  SEC-1       +-----+
>>  |     |  SEC2        | LOF |
>>  |     |  SEC3        +-----+
>>  |     |  FOOTNOTES   | BIB |
>>  +-----+--------------+-----+
>>  |        POSTAMBLE         |
>>  +--------------------------+
>>
>> Some people (see drupal) put the postamble into the right/center column
>> for two and three column layout respectively. I don't like that very
>> much.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What we should do before we change anything, is to experiment with one
>> simple document and different stylesheets, to ensure everything works
>> the way we want it to.
>>
>> I'll set up some with the different aproaches and try to add different
>> CSS stylesheets. Our aim must be to make many different layouts possible
>> (we will never make _all_ possible layouts feasable though).
>>
>>
>>
>> Important layouts are:
>>
>>  | Name                    | example          |
>>  |-------------------------+------------------|
>>  | Fixed TOC               | orgmode.org      |
>>  | Floating TOC            | orgmode.org/worg |
>>  | Please add more here...                    |
>>
>>  The usual page-flow will always stay what it is as long as no special
>>  styles are added.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>   Sebastian
>>
>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     <div id="column-1">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>>>       <div id="table-of-contents">
>>>>>>         the toc
>>>>>>       </div>
>>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     <div id="column-2">       -- Help with fixed TOC
>>>>>>       All the rest of the content goes here
>>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     <div id="postamble">
>>>>>>       postamble
>>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   </div>
>>>>>> </div>
>>>>>> </body>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having two boxes for the TOC would make the fixed TOC work in IE. In
>>>>>> general, I prefere to use two kinds of Boxes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - one for positioning, floating and so on. This one should have _no_
>>>>>>   padding or margin at all!
>>>>>
>>>>> Can one not simply use .body for that?
>>>>>
>>>>>> - one for margin, padding, styling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I found, this is the only way to reliably enforce a layout across
>>>>>> browsers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> column-1 and column-2 are for that very reason. All we can do to put the
>>>>>> TOC to the left or right is, to add margins to the body or the level 1
>>>>>> contents, and place it there. This is, what causes the problems with the
>>>>>> fixed TOC in IE. `column-1' and `column-2' (and `postamble') make it
>>>>>> possible, to adjust the layout in various common ways.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The `percent-50' (oh what a name) and `wrap' are just there, to be able
>>>>>> to center the whole page horizontally _and_ veritcally.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>
>> --
>> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
>> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
>> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
>> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
>> Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
>> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>

--
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

  reply	other threads:[~2009-03-02 15:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 25+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-02-28 10:29 Richard Riley
2009-02-28 11:37 ` Sebastian Rose
2009-02-28 19:23   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-28 21:09     ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02  8:03   ` Richard Riley
2009-03-02  9:29     ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 11:11       ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-02 11:58         ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 13:10           ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-02 16:00             ` Sebastian Rose [this message]
2009-03-02 17:03               ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-02 18:12                 ` Richard Riley
2009-03-02 18:56                   ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 20:22                     ` Richard Riley
2009-03-03  0:52                       ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-03  1:16                         ` Richard Riley
2009-03-03 10:02                           ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-03 10:14                             ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-03 10:50                               ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-03 10:57                             ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 19:03                   ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 18:54                 ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 19:06                   ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-02 14:38       ` Richard Riley
2009-03-02 16:50         ` Sebastian Rose

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