emacs-orgmode@gnu.org archives
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
* How to keep getting org updates
@ 2021-10-11 20:14 Galaxy Being
  2021-10-12  5:18 ` Greg Minshall
  2021-10-12  6:21 ` Tim Cross
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Galaxy Being @ 2021-10-11 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode Mailinglist

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 427 bytes --]

This is in my init.el

...
(setq package-archives '(("ELPA"  . "http://tromey.com/elpa/")
("gnu"   . "http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/")
("melpa" . "https://melpa.org/packages/")
("org"   . "https://orgmode.org/elpa/")))
...

I'm guessing the last line is no more and should be removed? In any case,
not getting 9.5 when I do a package update.


-- 
⨽
Lawrence Bottorff
Grand Marais, MN, USA
borgauf@gmail.com

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1047 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: How to keep getting org updates
  2021-10-11 20:14 How to keep getting org updates Galaxy Being
@ 2021-10-12  5:18 ` Greg Minshall
  2021-10-12  6:21 ` Tim Cross
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Greg Minshall @ 2021-10-12  5:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Galaxy Being; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Mailinglist

Lawrence,

in case it helps, my *straight.el* (not package.el) recipe looks like
this:
----
(org :type git :repo
     "https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/emacs/org-mode.git" :local-repo "org"
     :depth full :pre-build (straight-recipes-org-elpa--build) :build (:not
     autoloads) :files (:defaults "lisp/*.el" ("etc/styles/"
     "etc/styles/*")))
----

cheers, Greg


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: How to keep getting org updates
  2021-10-11 20:14 How to keep getting org updates Galaxy Being
  2021-10-12  5:18 ` Greg Minshall
@ 2021-10-12  6:21 ` Tim Cross
  2021-10-13  4:54   ` Galaxy Being
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Tim Cross @ 2021-10-12  6:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode


Galaxy Being <borgauf@gmail.com> writes:

> This is in my init.el
>
> ...
> (setq package-archives '(("ELPA"  . "http://tromey.com/elpa/")
> ("gnu"   . "http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/")
> ("melpa" . "https://melpa.org/packages/")
> ("org"   . "https://orgmode.org/elpa/")))
> ...
>
> I'm guessing the last line is no more and should be removed? In any case, not getting 9.5 when I do a package update.

The 9.5 version is in GNU ELPA. However, if you have a version from
orgmode.org or melpa, the version number is probably the release date
e.g. 20211001 or example, and package.el will see that as a later
version to 9.5 (because 20211001 is a larger number!).

My suggestion would be to uninstall any version you have installed and
then install the 9.5 version from ELPA. I would also remove the
orgmode.org repository as you mention. It may also be worthwhile
'inning' org to the ELPA repository (which should mean package.el will
only look at the ELPA repository when looking for updates (and not, for
example, MELPA).

If your running the emacs 28 pretest, it already includes 9.5


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: How to keep getting org updates
  2021-10-12  6:21 ` Tim Cross
@ 2021-10-13  4:54   ` Galaxy Being
  2021-10-13  9:55     ` Greg Minshall
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Galaxy Being @ 2021-10-13  4:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tim Cross; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Mailinglist

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2349 bytes --]

What do you mean by 'inning' org to the ELPA repository?

What I've done was to remove the last line in my init.el for ...
orgmode.org/elpa, restarted, then tried through list-packages to D org --
which seemed to comply, but never removed org-20210920 from the elpa
directory. Not being gone, the old version kept reinstalling itself. So I
finally manually moved org-20210920 somewhere else. But then repeated
restarts never brought org-9.5 into the list-packages listing, despite
having gnu/elpa in my init.el. But I did manage to "trick" 9.5 in by
installing an org package with org, naturally, needed as a dependent. It
offered some other version, but the "other version" install window knew
about latest-greatest 9.5, which I chose, thereby "tricking" 9.5 to be
installed. Org-9.5 is now listed only as a dependency in list-packages, of
all things. I commented out my org-plus-contrib, not knowing how to proceed
with it. The install instructions on the main org page were not
very clear, to say the least.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 1:33 AM Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Galaxy Being <borgauf@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > This is in my init.el
> >
> > ...
> > (setq package-archives '(("ELPA"  . "http://tromey.com/elpa/")
> > ("gnu"   . "http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/")
> > ("melpa" . "https://melpa.org/packages/")
> > ("org"   . "https://orgmode.org/elpa/")))
> > ...
> >
> > I'm guessing the last line is no more and should be removed? In any
> case, not getting 9.5 when I do a package update.
>
> The 9.5 version is in GNU ELPA. However, if you have a version from
> orgmode.org or melpa, the version number is probably the release date
> e.g. 20211001 or example, and package.el will see that as a later
> version to 9.5 (because 20211001 is a larger number!).
>
> My suggestion would be to uninstall any version you have installed and
> then install the 9.5 version from ELPA. I would also remove the
> orgmode.org repository as you mention. It may also be worthwhile
> 'inning' org to the ELPA repository (which should mean package.el will
> only look at the ELPA repository when looking for updates (and not, for
> example, MELPA).
>
> If your running the emacs 28 pretest, it already includes 9.5
>
>

-- 
⨽
Lawrence Bottorff
Grand Marais, MN, USA
borgauf@gmail.com

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3580 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: How to keep getting org updates
  2021-10-13  4:54   ` Galaxy Being
@ 2021-10-13  9:55     ` Greg Minshall
  2021-10-13 15:13       ` Galaxy Being
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Greg Minshall @ 2021-10-13  9:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Galaxy Being; +Cc: Tim Cross, emacs-orgmode Mailinglist

> The install instructions on the main org page were not very clear, to
> say the least.

yes, that does sound messy.  sorry your experience was so unfortunate.

i guess one question for the list: is there a general solution to the
"20200912" > "9.5" issue?  or, "now" that we are only distributing via
[git repository and] gnu elpa, will that issue disappear?  does this
new-fangled concept of "semantic versioning" come into play here?

possibly in the info pages we could have a section on
"re-installing/upgrading", to help people navigate this process.  (once
we, ourselves, have a map.)

cheers, Greg


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: How to keep getting org updates
  2021-10-13  9:55     ` Greg Minshall
@ 2021-10-13 15:13       ` Galaxy Being
  2021-10-13 20:49         ` Tim Cross
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Galaxy Being @ 2021-10-13 15:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg Minshall; +Cc: Tim Cross, emacs-orgmode Mailinglist

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1427 bytes --]

Appreciate the help and encouragement. This pinning business ... seems like
musical chairs with different suggestions here and there. Should I use this
<https://www.lonecpluspluscoder.com/2014/11/25/using-elpa-pinned-packages-gnu-emacs-24-4/>
suggestion,
or maybe this
<https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/iyzs29/is_there_a_way_to_pin_a_package_to_a_specific/>
one, or...? And where is the maintained list of packages? I see
.../elpa/archives/ but don't see anything else. Sorry to be a help vampire,
but I've never gotten past "casual Emacs user" status and don't think I
ever will with my hectic schedule.

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:55 AM Greg Minshall <minshall@umich.edu> wrote:

> > The install instructions on the main org page were not very clear, to
> > say the least.
>
> yes, that does sound messy.  sorry your experience was so unfortunate.
>
> i guess one question for the list: is there a general solution to the
> "20200912" > "9.5" issue?  or, "now" that we are only distributing via
> [git repository and] gnu elpa, will that issue disappear?  does this
> new-fangled concept of "semantic versioning" come into play here?
>
> possibly in the info pages we could have a section on
> "re-installing/upgrading", to help people navigate this process.  (once
> we, ourselves, have a map.)
>
> cheers, Greg
>


-- 
⨽
Lawrence Bottorff
Grand Marais, MN, USA
borgauf@gmail.com

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2012 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: How to keep getting org updates
  2021-10-13 15:13       ` Galaxy Being
@ 2021-10-13 20:49         ` Tim Cross
  2021-10-14  4:11           ` Greg Minshall
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Tim Cross @ 2021-10-13 20:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Galaxy Being; +Cc: Greg Minshall, emacs-orgmode Mailinglist


Galaxy Being <borgauf@gmail.com> writes:

> Appreciate the help and encouragement. This pinning business ... seems like musical chairs with different suggestions here and
> there. Should I use this suggestion, or maybe this one, or...? And where is the maintained list of packages? I see
> .../elpa/archives/ but don't see anything else. Sorry to be a help vampire, but I've never gotten past "casual Emacs user" status
> and don't think I ever will with my hectic schedule.
>

I think it is always a mistake to google for answers without first
checking what Emacs has in the built-in documentation and manual. What
is in the Emacs manual or docstrings for variables and functions is
guaranteed to be accurate for the version of Emacs your running. What
you find googling and serching reddit, stack overflow, etc is more often
than not outdated and from what I've seen, often incorrect. A little
time getting to learn the help commands bound to C-h will save you much
time in the long run.  

Running C-h d v package-pinned-packages shows the following, which
explains how to set the variable for pinning packages. 

package-pinned-packages is a variable defined in ‘package.el’.

Its value is nil

An alist of packages that are pinned to specific archives.
This can be useful if you have multiple package archives enabled,
and want to control which archive a given package gets installed from.

Each element of the alist has the form (PACKAGE . ARCHIVE), where:
 PACKAGE is a symbol representing a package
 ARCHIVE is a string representing an archive (it should be the car of
an element in ‘package-archives’, e.g. "gnu").

Adding an entry to this variable means that only ARCHIVE will be
considered as a source for PACKAGE.  If other archives provide PACKAGE,
they are ignored (for this package).  If ARCHIVE does not contain PACKAGE,
the package will be unavailable.

  This variable may be risky if used as a file-local variable.
  This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
  version 24.4 of Emacs.
  You can customize this variable.

So you would probably want something like

(setq package-pinned-packages '(('org . "gnu")))

assuming "gnu" is the name associated with the elpa.gnu.org archive.

There is also a good overview of the package management system in the
Emacs manual. Reading this will provide all the details you need and
often provide more than one possible solution. For example, you can also
set the priority of different archives so that packages from one archive
will have a higher priority than the same package from another archive.

The list of installed packages I was referring to is in the 'custom'
section of your init file and is called package-selected-packages. The
C-h d v for this variable is


Store here packages installed explicitly by user.
This variable is fed automatically by Emacs when installing a new package.
This variable is used by ‘package-autoremove’ to decide
which packages are no longer needed.
You can use it to (re)install packages on other machines
by running ‘package-install-selected-packages’.

To check if a package is contained in this list here, use
‘package--user-selected-p’, as it may populate the variable with
a sane initial value.

  This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
  version 25.1 of Emacs.
  You can customize this variable.

If your short on time and don't feel you can spend time to get into the
guts of Emacs, then I would also recommend reading the manual section on
customization and use the built-in Emacs customize interface to
configure your system rather than a hand crafted init.el file. 

I think you have two choices when it comes to Emacs. Either you stick
with what comes 'out of the box', which includes adding additional
packages from the standard ELPA and non-gnu ELPA repositories and use
the built in custom system to configure emacs, which has
the advantage of requiring minimal knowledge/understanding of the Emacs
ecosystem or you decide to be more advanced and update to latest
versions of some/all of the things you use, which requires more effort
and time spent to learn more of the intricacies of the ecosystem.

The worst approach is to crate an emacs init.el file filled with little
bits of elisp gathered from various forums which you don't really
understand. While this might make it appear to work OK, it leaves you
high and dry when something stops working and you cannot fix it.

> On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:55 AM Greg Minshall <minshall@umich.edu> wrote:
>
>  > The install instructions on the main org page were not very clear, to
>  > say the least.
>
>  yes, that does sound messy.  sorry your experience was so unfortunate.
>
>  i guess one question for the list: is there a general solution to the
>  "20200912" > "9.5" issue?  or, "now" that we are only distributing via
>  [git repository and] gnu elpa, will that issue disappear?  does this
>  new-fangled concept of "semantic versioning" come into play here?
>
>  possibly in the info pages we could have a section on
>  "re-installing/upgrading", to help people navigate this process.  (once
>  we, ourselves, have a map.)
>
>  cheers, Greg



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: How to keep getting org updates
  2021-10-13 20:49         ` Tim Cross
@ 2021-10-14  4:11           ` Greg Minshall
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Greg Minshall @ 2021-10-14  4:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tim Cross; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Mailinglist, Galaxy Being

hi, Tim,

> I think it is always a mistake to google for answers without first
> checking what Emacs has in the built-in documentation and manual. What
> is in the Emacs manual or docstrings for variables and functions is
> guaranteed to be accurate for the version of Emacs your running. What
> you find googling and serching reddit, stack overflow, etc is more often
> than not outdated and from what I've seen, often incorrect. A little
> time getting to learn the help commands bound to C-h will save you much
> time in the long run.  

this is undoubtedly true, though i certainly find myself googling a fair
amount, comparing answers to see if there is consensus.  and, then,
often, using those results to dive into the manual (or the mailing list
archives) to see if i can find "official" guidance.

> Running C-h d v package-pinned-packages shows the following, which
> explains how to set the variable for pinning packages.

for example, i might google, and find that `package-pinned-packages` was
a variable of interest.

i strongly agree that staying an "out-of-the-box" user, setting options
with Emacs' customization interface (and, i guess, using ELPA), is the
way to go if you want to be spared of many details (which can be
daunting, and are approximately infinite :).

but, all that said, didn't some of us on the list (even, iiuc, "out of
the box" users) have problems upgrading from previous ELPA'ish versions
of org-mode to the 9.5 version, because of the confusion of ELPA (?)
non-semantic version numbers appearing to be greater than "9.5"?  that
was really what i was considering, and wondering how to document that
issue in the info pages, so the official documentation will, in fact,
help people upgrade.  (though maybe the answer here is, "stay with the
non-gnu ELPA [or base Emacs] version of org-mode you are currently using
until you upgrade to Emacs 28, at which point you will automatically
follow the box to org-mode 9.5"?)

cheers, Greg


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-10-14  4:12 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-10-11 20:14 How to keep getting org updates Galaxy Being
2021-10-12  5:18 ` Greg Minshall
2021-10-12  6:21 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-13  4:54   ` Galaxy Being
2021-10-13  9:55     ` Greg Minshall
2021-10-13 15:13       ` Galaxy Being
2021-10-13 20:49         ` Tim Cross
2021-10-14  4:11           ` Greg Minshall

Code repositories for project(s) associated with this inbox:

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).