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[124.171.52.11]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z17sm383060pfa.148.2021.10.13.14.20.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 13 Oct 2021 14:20:03 -0700 (PDT) References: <87k0iiah3i.fsf@gmail.com> <3580095.1634118902@apollo2.minshall.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.7.0; emacs 28.0.60 From: Tim Cross To: Galaxy Being Subject: Re: How to keep getting org updates Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 07:49:36 +1100 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87a6jcbp1c.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52d; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Greg Minshall , emacs-orgmode Mailinglist Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1634160087; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=eHiTn2iE5WPtvihr2emzvSpUvI09A+JMaYCYa4HvfOg=; b=rPlL0BunVZB+lffMQj7bytgx6gIIrTezKieMD5wwG0CMCAFdo5L28QA6BpiIoIGD218pri ZCLK7LCTfAus8+8mFnp+U6JC80Mg2EGKp7DTKijywhD0q3/eYHOtruXfgBd1IWYdks+T4C z44cPA01l0ZxrPZEnzmnrTZL2LXlRjt/tLoA8cFXUFpY/rBnidPu5CPtR56WF2O69MXeyo qN/m2mUtptS7uFu1TVYcOAl4uSuEVVOH7UKca1WN9Hy7f/xskokiXr9co5kFWC7nSewxip BnZUkboVNh+mpW7D7L8NoBEET0UdDcrSiTDs16Xy7qf+fL8964BCZLH7FpoG1w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1634160087; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=OANNdUt6qxHgqDO3RJglhl1vIPzIJPXv8WJ3hORxj2lOpHfUnOmiVziQdayOGjQ2W+1gxo BIoyP/m0ykOSKxKGeMUdCZoiLOanI1CtPapNl3wn7ece+P7eGiFlkoQmjSBBL1uXtCKbDw j9eET4kjX7Nn1qAe948Fma2z3cvVlwYFIrCfy987K10Fi17VVyInoAAbucZ9A/1XsM4o7i GwzoVGv4s5iDWEj8Ia58lOL99RTddirjWY1IYJGsQ9pCllwgX1IQzwX5EYbg3bBBYYTnxe iR87nT0lLLl0FQZpIhmTG6wSFiUc03+91aAq/TJPYTP36+lF4/kOkt0x0i2IBQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=HkjNplf9; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=HkjNplf9; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 89BF733006 X-Spam-Score: -3.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 7nFjKv91JUS+ Galaxy Being writes: > Appreciate the help and encouragement. This pinning business ... seems li= ke musical chairs with different suggestions here and > there. Should I use this suggestion, or maybe this one, or...? And where = is the maintained list of packages? I see > .../elpa/archives/ but don't see anything else. Sorry to be a help vampir= e, but I've never gotten past "casual Emacs user" status > and don't think I ever will with my hectic schedule. > I think it is always a mistake to google for answers without first checking what Emacs has in the built-in documentation and manual. What is in the Emacs manual or docstrings for variables and functions is guaranteed to be accurate for the version of Emacs your running. What you find googling and serching reddit, stack overflow, etc is more often than not outdated and from what I've seen, often incorrect. A little time getting to learn the help commands bound to C-h will save you much time in the long run.=20=20 Running C-h d v package-pinned-packages shows the following, which explains how to set the variable for pinning packages.=20 package-pinned-packages is a variable defined in =E2=80=98package.el=E2=80= =99. Its value is nil An alist of packages that are pinned to specific archives. This can be useful if you have multiple package archives enabled, and want to control which archive a given package gets installed from. Each element of the alist has the form (PACKAGE . ARCHIVE), where: PACKAGE is a symbol representing a package ARCHIVE is a string representing an archive (it should be the car of an element in =E2=80=98package-archives=E2=80=99, e.g. "gnu"). Adding an entry to this variable means that only ARCHIVE will be considered as a source for PACKAGE. If other archives provide PACKAGE, they are ignored (for this package). If ARCHIVE does not contain PACKAGE, the package will be unavailable. This variable may be risky if used as a file-local variable. This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in version 24.4 of Emacs. You can customize this variable. So you would probably want something like (setq package-pinned-packages '(('org . "gnu"))) assuming "gnu" is the name associated with the elpa.gnu.org archive. There is also a good overview of the package management system in the Emacs manual. Reading this will provide all the details you need and often provide more than one possible solution. For example, you can also set the priority of different archives so that packages from one archive will have a higher priority than the same package from another archive. The list of installed packages I was referring to is in the 'custom' section of your init file and is called package-selected-packages. The C-h d v for this variable is Store here packages installed explicitly by user. This variable is fed automatically by Emacs when installing a new package. This variable is used by =E2=80=98package-autoremove=E2=80=99 to decide which packages are no longer needed. You can use it to (re)install packages on other machines by running =E2=80=98package-install-selected-packages=E2=80=99. To check if a package is contained in this list here, use =E2=80=98package--user-selected-p=E2=80=99, as it may populate the variable= with a sane initial value. This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in version 25.1 of Emacs. You can customize this variable. If your short on time and don't feel you can spend time to get into the guts of Emacs, then I would also recommend reading the manual section on customization and use the built-in Emacs customize interface to configure your system rather than a hand crafted init.el file.=20 I think you have two choices when it comes to Emacs. Either you stick with what comes 'out of the box', which includes adding additional packages from the standard ELPA and non-gnu ELPA repositories and use the built in custom system to configure emacs, which has the advantage of requiring minimal knowledge/understanding of the Emacs ecosystem or you decide to be more advanced and update to latest versions of some/all of the things you use, which requires more effort and time spent to learn more of the intricacies of the ecosystem. The worst approach is to crate an emacs init.el file filled with little bits of elisp gathered from various forums which you don't really understand. While this might make it appear to work OK, it leaves you high and dry when something stops working and you cannot fix it. > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:55 AM Greg Minshall wrote: > > > The install instructions on the main org page were not very clear, to > > say the least. > > yes, that does sound messy. sorry your experience was so unfortunate. > > i guess one question for the list: is there a general solution to the > "20200912" > "9.5" issue? or, "now" that we are only distributing via > [git repository and] gnu elpa, will that issue disappear? does this > new-fangled concept of "semantic versioning" come into play here? > > possibly in the info pages we could have a section on > "re-installing/upgrading", to help people navigate this process. (once > we, ourselves, have a map.) > > cheers, Greg