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* [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
@ 2013-05-27 22:41 T.T.N.
  2013-05-28 13:00 ` Torsten Wagner
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: T.T.N. @ 2013-05-27 22:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Hi,

So this is my first try to post to the mailing list. I Love Orgmode, you 
guys are the best!

I would like to use orgmode to capture japanese text to later export to 
latex, html and epub.
For japanese symbols, sometimes the pronounciation is put in smaller 
letters above the symbol to help the reader.
These are called ruby in general in typesetting (in japanese, they are 
also called furigana/yomigana, which I put in the header so not 
everybody thinks of the programming language..)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furigana

In Latex, using CJK and ruby packages, This exports ok.
(A problem being that japanese text in headers doesn't. But i guess 
that's another (and rather Latex, not orgmode-specific) topic.

Now, my feature request would be to make the html exporter interpret the 
latex command
\ruby{symbol}{reading}
as:
<ruby> symbol <rp>(</rp><rt>reading</rt><rp>)</rp> <\ruby>

as suggested here, for parentheses on non-ruby supporting browsers:
http://xahlee.info/js/html5_ruby_tag.html


For the org-mode file (you might see some blank squares if you have no 
japanese support):
Here a minimal working example for export:

###
#+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[CJK, overlap]{ruby}
#+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{CJK} \end{CJK}
#+LATEX \begin{CJK}{UTF8}{min}

"\ruby{東}{ひがし}アジア" means east asia in japanese
#+LATEX \end{CJK}
###


All the best, and keep on rocking my world in plain text! =)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

• * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
    2013-05-27 22:41 [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby T.T.N.
  @ 2013-05-28 13:00 ` Torsten Wagner
    2013-05-28 15:01   ` Suvayu Ali
    2013-05-28 15:43   ` Tristan Nakagawa
    0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
  From: Torsten Wagner @ 2013-05-28 13:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
    To: T.T.N.; +Cc: Org Mode Mailing List
  
  [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2795 bytes --]
  
  Hi Tristan,
  
  this feature request seems simple to implement on one side. However, it
  opens a question how to deal with those in general.
  \ruby{東} is a very specific command of the CJK package.
  If this get's implemented in the standard html exporter, other very special
  commands might need to follow. That could easily go into a nightmare. I do
  not have a detailed view how the exporters work now, thus, it is a
  interesting question I want to ask here: How should specific needs for
  exporting (like Tristans) be embedded in the future.
  
  People could fork exporters. Creating e.g. a HTML-CJK exporter.
  Even better would be to have exporter modules which could be loaded by
  users.
  
  #+HTML_MODULES CJK,
  
  However, I believe that for many users, the special cases are not very
  frequent and complex. Might it be possible to create a very simple syntax
  for exporting rules which could be either in those above modules or
  directly within the file written by the user themself?
  
  #+HTML_USER_RULE   \ruby{$1}{$2}, <ruby> $1 <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp>
  <\ruby>
  
  Would like to hear what other think about that.
  
  Greetings
  
  Torsten
  
  
  
  On 28 May 2013 00:41, T.T.N. <tristan.nakagawa@gmail.com> wrote:
  
  > Hi,
  >
  > So this is my first try to post to the mailing list. I Love Orgmode, you
  > guys are the best!
  >
  > I would like to use orgmode to capture japanese text to later export to
  > latex, html and epub.
  > For japanese symbols, sometimes the pronounciation is put in smaller
  > letters above the symbol to help the reader.
  > These are called ruby in general in typesetting (in japanese, they are
  > also called furigana/yomigana, which I put in the header so not everybody
  > thinks of the programming language..)
  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Furigana<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furigana>
  >
  > In Latex, using CJK and ruby packages, This exports ok.
  > (A problem being that japanese text in headers doesn't. But i guess that's
  > another (and rather Latex, not orgmode-specific) topic.
  >
  > Now, my feature request would be to make the html exporter interpret the
  > latex command
  > \ruby{symbol}{reading}
  > as:
  > <ruby> symbol <rp>(</rp><rt>reading</rt><rp>**)</rp> <\ruby>
  >
  > as suggested here, for parentheses on non-ruby supporting browsers:
  > http://xahlee.info/js/html5_**ruby_tag.html<http://xahlee.info/js/html5_ruby_tag.html>
  >
  >
  > For the org-mode file (you might see some blank squares if you have no
  > japanese support):
  > Here a minimal working example for export:
  >
  > ###
  > #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[CJK, overlap]{ruby}
  > #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{CJK} \end{CJK}
  > #+LATEX \begin{CJK}{UTF8}{min}
  >
  > "\ruby{東}{ひがし}アジア" means east asia in japanese
  > #+LATEX \end{CJK}
  > ###
  >
  >
  > All the best, and keep on rocking my world in plain text! =)
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  
  [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3843 bytes --]
  
  ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

• • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
      2013-05-28 13:00 ` Torsten Wagner
    @ 2013-05-28 15:01   ` Suvayu Ali
      2013-05-28 15:27     ` Suvayu Ali
                           ` (2 more replies)
      2013-05-28 15:43   ` Tristan Nakagawa
      1 sibling, 3 replies; 13+ messages in thread
    From: Suvayu Ali @ 2013-05-28 15:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
      To: emacs-orgmode
    
    On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 03:00:40PM +0200, Torsten Wagner wrote:
    > 
    > However, I believe that for many users, the special cases are not very
    > frequent and complex. Might it be possible to create a very simple syntax
    > for exporting rules which could be either in those above modules or
    > directly within the file written by the user themself?
    > 
    > #+HTML_USER_RULE   \ruby{$1}{$2}, <ruby> $1 <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp> <\ruby>
    
    Isn't this very similar to a #+MACRO definition but with a different
    syntax and only for the HTML backend?
    
    Maybe we could allow backend specific macro expansion definitions.
    Something like:
    
      #+HTML_MACRO: ruby <ruby> $1 <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp> <\ruby>
      #+LATEX_MACRO: ruby \ruby{$1}{$2}
    
      Then {{{ruby(東,ひがし)}}} will be expanded appropriately for
      different backends.
    
    What do you think?
    
    Cheers,
    
    PS: Actually on second thought it is probably possible to handle this
        with filters although I failed to find the appropriate filter.
    
        So you could try:
    
          #+MACRO: ruby <cookie><$1><$2></cookie>
    
        And the filter can translate the cookie to the appropriate backend
        specific expansion.
    
    -- 
    Suvayu
    
    Open source is the future. It sets us free.
    
    ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

  • • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
        2013-05-28 15:01   ` Suvayu Ali
      @ 2013-05-28 15:27     ` Suvayu Ali
        2013-05-28 15:34     ` Thomas S. Dye
        2013-05-29  7:20     ` Christian Moe
        2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
      From: Suvayu Ali @ 2013-05-28 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
        To: emacs-orgmode
      
      On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 05:01:56PM +0200, Suvayu Ali wrote:
      > 
      > PS: Actually on second thought it is probably possible to handle this
      >     with filters although I failed to find the appropriate filter.
      > 
      >     So you could try:
      > 
      >       #+MACRO: ruby <cookie><$1><$2></cookie>
      > 
      >     And the filter can translate the cookie to the appropriate backend
      >     specific expansion.
      
      Maybe this will work (untested): org-export-filter-paragraph-functions.  The
      assumption is you will use the macro by itself in a paragraph and not on
      structural elements like headlines.
      
        (defun sa-latex-subscript (contents backend info)
          (when (eq backend 'latex)
            (replace-regexp-in-string "<cookie><\\([^>]+\\)><\\([^>]+\\)></cookie>"
                                      "\\\\ruby{\\1}{\\2}" contents))
          (when (eq backend 'html)
            (replace-regexp-in-string "<cookie><\\([^>]+\\)><\\([^>]+\\)></cookie>"
                                      "<ruby>\\1<rp>(</rp><rt>\\2</rt><rp>)</rp> <\ruby>"
                                      contents)))
      
      I did not check the regular expressions at all, so please test and let us know.
      
      Cheers,
      
      -- 
      Suvayu
      
      Open source is the future. It sets us free.
      
      ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

    • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
        2013-05-28 15:01   ` Suvayu Ali
        2013-05-28 15:27     ` Suvayu Ali
      @ 2013-05-28 15:34     ` Thomas S. Dye
        2013-05-29  7:20     ` Christian Moe
        2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
      From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2013-05-28 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
        To: Suvayu Ali; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
      
      Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> writes:
      
      > On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 03:00:40PM +0200, Torsten Wagner wrote:
      >> 
      >> However, I believe that for many users, the special cases are not very
      >> frequent and complex. Might it be possible to create a very simple syntax
      >> for exporting rules which could be either in those above modules or
      >> directly within the file written by the user themself?
      >> 
      >> #+HTML_USER_RULE \ruby{$1}{$2}, <ruby> $1
      >> <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp> <\ruby>
      >
      > Isn't this very similar to a #+MACRO definition but with a different
      > syntax and only for the HTML backend?
      >
      > Maybe we could allow backend specific macro expansion definitions.
      > Something like:
      >
      >   #+HTML_MACRO: ruby <ruby> $1 <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp> <\ruby>
      >   #+LATEX_MACRO: ruby \ruby{$1}{$2}
      >
      >   Then {{{ruby(東,ひがし)}}} will be expanded appropriately for
      >   different backends.
      >
      > What do you think?
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > PS: Actually on second thought it is probably possible to handle this
      >     with filters although I failed to find the appropriate filter.
      >
      >     So you could try:
      >
      >       #+MACRO: ruby <cookie><$1><$2></cookie>
      >
      >     And the filter can translate the cookie to the appropriate backend
      >     specific expansion.
      
      Another option would be a link:
      
        (org-add-link-type
         "ruby" nil
         (lambda (path desc format)
           (cond
            ((eq format 'html)
             (format "<ruby> %s <rp>(</rp><rt>%s</rt><rp>)</rp> <\ruby>" path desc))
            ((memq format '(beamer latex))
                 (format "\\ruby{%s}{%s}" path desc)))))
      
      
      [[ruby:東][ひがし]]
      
      (untested)
      
      All the best,
      Tom
      -- 
      Thomas S. Dye
      http://www.tsdye.com
      
      ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

    • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
        2013-05-28 15:01   ` Suvayu Ali
        2013-05-28 15:27     ` Suvayu Ali
        2013-05-28 15:34     ` Thomas S. Dye
      @ 2013-05-29  7:20     ` Christian Moe
        2013-05-29  7:30       ` Suvayu Ali
        2 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
      From: Christian Moe @ 2013-05-29  7:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
        To: Suvayu Ali; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
      
      
      Suvayu Ali writes:
      
      > Maybe we could allow backend specific macro expansion definitions.
      > Something like:
      >
      >   #+HTML_MACRO: ruby <ruby> $1 <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp> <\ruby>
      >   #+LATEX_MACRO: ruby \ruby{$1}{$2}
      >
      >   Then {{{ruby(東,ひがし)}}} will be expanded appropriately for
      >   different backends.
      >
      > What do you think?
      
      Existing (8.0) syntax already offers a way to achieve this using export
      snippets, which now allow and require you to specify backends. To
      recast your example:
      
        #+macro: ruby @@html:<ruby> $1<rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp> </ruby>@@@@latex:\ruby{$1}{$2}@@
      
        Then {{{ruby(東,ひがし)}}} will be expanded appropriately for
        different backends.
      
      Note: I have no idea if the above actually results in appropriate
      rubies, it's just to demonstrate the basic principle that you can write:
      
        #+macro: foo @@html:<foo>$1</foo>@@@@latex:\foo{$1}@@
      
      Yours,
      Christian
      
      ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

    • • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
          2013-05-29  7:20     ` Christian Moe
        @ 2013-05-29  7:30       ` Suvayu Ali
          0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
        From: Suvayu Ali @ 2013-05-29  7:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
          To: Christian Moe; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
        
        On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 09:20:52AM +0200, Christian Moe wrote:
        > 
        > Suvayu Ali writes:
        > 
        > > Maybe we could allow backend specific macro expansion definitions.
        > > Something like:
        > >
        > >   #+HTML_MACRO: ruby <ruby> $1 <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp> <\ruby>
        > >   #+LATEX_MACRO: ruby \ruby{$1}{$2}
        > >
        > >   Then {{{ruby(東,ひがし)}}} will be expanded appropriately for
        > >   different backends.
        > >
        > > What do you think?
        > 
        > Existing (8.0) syntax already offers a way to achieve this using export
        > snippets, which now allow and require you to specify backends. To
        > recast your example:
        > 
        >   #+macro: ruby @@html:<ruby> $1<rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp> </ruby>@@@@latex:\ruby{$1}{$2}@@
        > 
        >   Then {{{ruby(東,ひがし)}}} will be expanded appropriately for
        >   different backends.
        > 
        
        You are right!  I had completely forgotten about snippets.
        
        -- 
        Suvayu
        
        Open source is the future. It sets us free.
        
        ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

  • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
      2013-05-28 13:00 ` Torsten Wagner
      2013-05-28 15:01   ` Suvayu Ali
    @ 2013-05-28 15:43   ` Tristan Nakagawa
      2013-05-28 17:36     ` Torsten Wagner
      1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
    From: Tristan Nakagawa @ 2013-05-28 15:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
      To: Torsten Wagner; +Cc: Org Mode Mailing List
    
    Hi Torsten,
    
    Thanks for the input,
    To have definable export rules would indeed be great, to increase
    flexibility while keeping the base exporter simple and lightweight.
    
    I agree that this is somewhat specific, however, I believe that
    globally, this is not unfrequent, and will become quite frequent soon:
    
    There is, for example, the ease of drafting and flexibility of output
    (print quality pdf and epub-convertible html),so orgmode can be used so
    well outside of the traditional latex-technical and science paper realms
    for novels, books, blog-posts (org2blog).
    
    And imagining the number of people on this planet speaking Chinese and
    japanese, Korean, Thai, and other languages I am not even aware of that
    use rubys to help reading, the number of people learning these
    languages, creating two-language blog-posts, textbooks, etc etc.
    
    It might take a while before all browsers support the tags (my Firefox
    doesnt even yet), but for epub&pdf creation, this would already be great!
    
    
    (Just to back up the feature-request beyond definately needed and
    appreciated discussion about how and if to make the exporter more
    modular or costumizable)  ..  =)
    
    best,
    Tristan
    
    
    
    
    On 2013-05-28 15:00, Torsten Wagner wrote:
    > Hi Tristan,
    > 
    > this feature request seems simple to implement on one side. However, it
    > opens a question how to deal with those in general.
    > \ruby{東} is a very specific command of the CJK package.
    > If this get's implemented in the standard html exporter, other very special
    > commands might need to follow. That could easily go into a nightmare. I do
    > not have a detailed view how the exporters work now, thus, it is a
    > interesting question I want to ask here: How should specific needs for
    > exporting (like Tristans) be embedded in the future.
    > 
    > People could fork exporters. Creating e.g. a HTML-CJK exporter.
    > Even better would be to have exporter modules which could be loaded by
    > users.
    > 
    > #+HTML_MODULES CJK,
    > 
    > However, I believe that for many users, the special cases are not very
    > frequent and complex. Might it be possible to create a very simple syntax
    > for exporting rules which could be either in those above modules or
    > directly within the file written by the user themself?
    > 
    > #+HTML_USER_RULE   \ruby{$1}{$2}, <ruby> $1 <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp>
    > <\ruby>
    > 
    > Would like to hear what other think about that.
    > 
    > Greetings
    > 
    > Torsten
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > On 28 May 2013 00:41, T.T.N. <tristan.nakagawa@gmail.com> wrote:
    > 
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> So this is my first try to post to the mailing list. I Love Orgmode, you
    >> guys are the best!
    >>
    >> I would like to use orgmode to capture japanese text to later export to
    >> latex, html and epub.
    >> For japanese symbols, sometimes the pronounciation is put in smaller
    >> letters above the symbol to help the reader.
    >> These are called ruby in general in typesetting (in japanese, they are
    >> also called furigana/yomigana, which I put in the header so not everybody
    >> thinks of the programming language..)
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Furigana<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furigana>
    >>
    >> In Latex, using CJK and ruby packages, This exports ok.
    >> (A problem being that japanese text in headers doesn't. But i guess that's
    >> another (and rather Latex, not orgmode-specific) topic.
    >>
    >> Now, my feature request would be to make the html exporter interpret the
    >> latex command
    >> \ruby{symbol}{reading}
    >> as:
    >> <ruby> symbol <rp>(</rp><rt>reading</rt><rp>**)</rp> <\ruby>
    >>
    >> as suggested here, for parentheses on non-ruby supporting browsers:
    >> http://xahlee.info/js/html5_**ruby_tag.html<http://xahlee.info/js/html5_ruby_tag.html>
    >>
    >>
    >> For the org-mode file (you might see some blank squares if you have no
    >> japanese support):
    >> Here a minimal working example for export:
    >>
    >> ###
    >> #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[CJK, overlap]{ruby}
    >> #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{CJK} \end{CJK}
    >> #+LATEX \begin{CJK}{UTF8}{min}
    >>
    >> "\ruby{東}{ひがし}アジア" means east asia in japanese
    >> #+LATEX \end{CJK}
    >> ###
    >>
    >>
    >> All the best, and keep on rocking my world in plain text! =)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    > 
    
    ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

  • • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
        2013-05-28 15:43   ` Tristan Nakagawa
      @ 2013-05-28 17:36     ` Torsten Wagner
        2013-05-29 15:20       ` Tristan Nakagawa
        0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
      From: Torsten Wagner @ 2013-05-28 17:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
        To: Tristan Nakagawa; +Cc: Org Mode Mailing List
      
      [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5401 bytes --]
      
      Hi Tristan,
      
      don't get me wrong. Being married to a Chinese and lived in Japan for many
      years I know exactly what you are talking about ;)
      I just feel it needs some clean and well defined way how to implement all
      those different export features without cluttering the basic exporters.
      
      Somehow the same reason why we use a zillion of packages for LaTeX itself.
      I just got aware of that, by reading your post. Recently, we got new
      exporters thus, should be the next step to get/define modules for those
      exporters or even being able to write your own rules easily within the file?
      
      The 2 worst case scenarios IMHO...
      the exporters gets more and more extended getting harder to maintain and
      error prome
      people start forking the exporters html-cjk, html-hangul, html-netscape ;)
      
      Thus, I would love to hear what others might think is the most clean way to
      add your feature request and be prepared for the many many others in the
      future.
      
      Greetings
      
      Torsten
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      On 28 May 2013 17:43, Tristan Nakagawa <tristan.nakagawa@gmail.com> wrote:
      
      > Hi Torsten,
      >
      > Thanks for the input,
      > To have definable export rules would indeed be great, to increase
      > flexibility while keeping the base exporter simple and lightweight.
      >
      > I agree that this is somewhat specific, however, I believe that
      > globally, this is not unfrequent, and will become quite frequent soon:
      >
      > There is, for example, the ease of drafting and flexibility of output
      > (print quality pdf and epub-convertible html),so orgmode can be used so
      > well outside of the traditional latex-technical and science paper realms
      > for novels, books, blog-posts (org2blog).
      >
      > And imagining the number of people on this planet speaking Chinese and
      > japanese, Korean, Thai, and other languages I am not even aware of that
      > use rubys to help reading, the number of people learning these
      > languages, creating two-language blog-posts, textbooks, etc etc.
      >
      > It might take a while before all browsers support the tags (my Firefox
      > doesnt even yet), but for epub&pdf creation, this would already be great!
      >
      >
      > (Just to back up the feature-request beyond definately needed and
      > appreciated discussion about how and if to make the exporter more
      > modular or costumizable)  ..  =)
      >
      > best,
      > Tristan
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On 2013-05-28 15:00, Torsten Wagner wrote:
      > > Hi Tristan,
      > >
      > > this feature request seems simple to implement on one side. However, it
      > > opens a question how to deal with those in general.
      > > \ruby{東} is a very specific command of the CJK package.
      > > If this get's implemented in the standard html exporter, other very
      > special
      > > commands might need to follow. That could easily go into a nightmare. I
      > do
      > > not have a detailed view how the exporters work now, thus, it is a
      > > interesting question I want to ask here: How should specific needs for
      > > exporting (like Tristans) be embedded in the future.
      > >
      > > People could fork exporters. Creating e.g. a HTML-CJK exporter.
      > > Even better would be to have exporter modules which could be loaded by
      > > users.
      > >
      > > #+HTML_MODULES CJK,
      > >
      > > However, I believe that for many users, the special cases are not very
      > > frequent and complex. Might it be possible to create a very simple syntax
      > > for exporting rules which could be either in those above modules or
      > > directly within the file written by the user themself?
      > >
      > > #+HTML_USER_RULE   \ruby{$1}{$2}, <ruby> $1
      > <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp>
      > > <\ruby>
      > >
      > > Would like to hear what other think about that.
      > >
      > > Greetings
      > >
      > > Torsten
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On 28 May 2013 00:41, T.T.N. <tristan.nakagawa@gmail.com> wrote:
      > >
      > >> Hi,
      > >>
      > >> So this is my first try to post to the mailing list. I Love Orgmode, you
      > >> guys are the best!
      > >>
      > >> I would like to use orgmode to capture japanese text to later export to
      > >> latex, html and epub.
      > >> For japanese symbols, sometimes the pronounciation is put in smaller
      > >> letters above the symbol to help the reader.
      > >> These are called ruby in general in typesetting (in japanese, they are
      > >> also called furigana/yomigana, which I put in the header so not
      > everybody
      > >> thinks of the programming language..)
      > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Furigana<
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furigana>
      > >>
      > >> In Latex, using CJK and ruby packages, This exports ok.
      > >> (A problem being that japanese text in headers doesn't. But i guess
      > that's
      > >> another (and rather Latex, not orgmode-specific) topic.
      > >>
      > >> Now, my feature request would be to make the html exporter interpret the
      > >> latex command
      > >> \ruby{symbol}{reading}
      > >> as:
      > >> <ruby> symbol <rp>(</rp><rt>reading</rt><rp>**)</rp> <\ruby>
      > >>
      > >> as suggested here, for parentheses on non-ruby supporting browsers:
      > >> http://xahlee.info/js/html5_**ruby_tag.html<
      > http://xahlee.info/js/html5_ruby_tag.html>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> For the org-mode file (you might see some blank squares if you have no
      > >> japanese support):
      > >> Here a minimal working example for export:
      > >>
      > >> ###
      > >> #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[CJK, overlap]{ruby}
      > >> #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{CJK} \end{CJK}
      > >> #+LATEX \begin{CJK}{UTF8}{min}
      > >>
      > >> "\ruby{東}{ひがし}アジア" means east asia in japanese
      > >> #+LATEX \end{CJK}
      > >> ###
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> All the best, and keep on rocking my world in plain text! =)
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      >
      >
      
      [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 7537 bytes --]
      
      ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

    • • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
          2013-05-28 17:36     ` Torsten Wagner
        @ 2013-05-29 15:20       ` Tristan Nakagawa
          2013-05-29 16:46         ` Christian Moe
          2013-05-29 18:13         ` Suvayu Ali
          0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
        From: Tristan Nakagawa @ 2013-05-29 15:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
          To: Torsten Wagner; +Cc: Org Mode Mailing List, Tristan Nakagawa
        
        Hi,
        
        For some reason, I don't get the follow-ups per mail, neither can I
        respond via the gmane interface =(.
        Right now I don't have time to figure it out, so I will let you know
        here for all solutions:
        
        Thanks, all, very nice! In fact, pure awesomeness!
        
        And it's brand new. I didn't know about it before, and now found the
        info that you mentioned it:
        http://orgmode.org/worg/org-8.0.html
        
        I had just looked with my old emacs version in the manual, not the
        upgrade release notes..
        (I had 7.9.3d, I had updated via the emacs package manager, but
        unsuccessful due to loading some orgmode functions at startup in emacs.
        after renaming .emacs and deleting the old org, the package manager
        successfully updated.)
        
        
        I didn't get Suvayus solution in the old version, i suspect it might
        work in the new version, but since the snippet version (see below)
        doesnt involve changing the backend for every macro, i didn't follow up
        on it
        
        Thomas' ruby link solution works nicely (except the closing tag should
        be </ruby>, not <\ruby>, and works for both for latex and html.
        
        The only downside is that you won't see the symbol in the original
        orgfile or in section headers in the export, just the reading, but that
        is a very minor annoyance and this is a very nice elegant solution with
        a very readable source org file.
        (I don't guess the link could be redefined to switch reading and symbol
        around?)
        
        Christians suggestion with snippets works great, both for html and pdf
        via latex; even in section headers.
        (it took me reading the 8.0 upgrade info to understand we were talking
        about the <at> symbol, not literally "<at>" in the code.
        
        Thanks all for your help =)
        And Torsten, I guess this also lines out the solution on how to
        implement specific features without cluttering the basic exporters.
        
        m_ _m
        
        best,
        Tristan
        
        
        On 2013-05-28 19:36, Torsten Wagner wrote:
        > Hi Tristan,
        > 
        > don't get me wrong. Being married to a Chinese and lived in Japan for many
        > years I know exactly what you are talking about ;)
        > I just feel it needs some clean and well defined way how to implement all
        > those different export features without cluttering the basic exporters.
        > 
        > Somehow the same reason why we use a zillion of packages for LaTeX itself.
        > I just got aware of that, by reading your post. Recently, we got new
        > exporters thus, should be the next step to get/define modules for those
        > exporters or even being able to write your own rules easily within the file?
        > 
        > The 2 worst case scenarios IMHO...
        > the exporters gets more and more extended getting harder to maintain and
        > error prome
        > people start forking the exporters html-cjk, html-hangul, html-netscape ;)
        > 
        > Thus, I would love to hear what others might think is the most clean way to
        > add your feature request and be prepared for the many many others in the
        > future.
        > 
        > Greetings
        > 
        > Torsten
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > On 28 May 2013 17:43, Tristan Nakagawa <tristan.nakagawa@gmail.com> wrote:
        > 
        >> Hi Torsten,
        >>
        >> Thanks for the input,
        >> To have definable export rules would indeed be great, to increase
        >> flexibility while keeping the base exporter simple and lightweight.
        >>
        >> I agree that this is somewhat specific, however, I believe that
        >> globally, this is not unfrequent, and will become quite frequent soon:
        >>
        >> There is, for example, the ease of drafting and flexibility of output
        >> (print quality pdf and epub-convertible html),so orgmode can be used so
        >> well outside of the traditional latex-technical and science paper realms
        >> for novels, books, blog-posts (org2blog).
        >>
        >> And imagining the number of people on this planet speaking Chinese and
        >> japanese, Korean, Thai, and other languages I am not even aware of that
        >> use rubys to help reading, the number of people learning these
        >> languages, creating two-language blog-posts, textbooks, etc etc.
        >>
        >> It might take a while before all browsers support the tags (my Firefox
        >> doesnt even yet), but for epub&pdf creation, this would already be great!
        >>
        >>
        >> (Just to back up the feature-request beyond definately needed and
        >> appreciated discussion about how and if to make the exporter more
        >> modular or costumizable)  ..  =)
        >>
        >> best,
        >> Tristan
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> On 2013-05-28 15:00, Torsten Wagner wrote:
        >>> Hi Tristan,
        >>>
        >>> this feature request seems simple to implement on one side. However, it
        >>> opens a question how to deal with those in general.
        >>> \ruby{東} is a very specific command of the CJK package.
        >>> If this get's implemented in the standard html exporter, other very
        >> special
        >>> commands might need to follow. That could easily go into a nightmare. I
        >> do
        >>> not have a detailed view how the exporters work now, thus, it is a
        >>> interesting question I want to ask here: How should specific needs for
        >>> exporting (like Tristans) be embedded in the future.
        >>>
        >>> People could fork exporters. Creating e.g. a HTML-CJK exporter.
        >>> Even better would be to have exporter modules which could be loaded by
        >>> users.
        >>>
        >>> #+HTML_MODULES CJK,
        >>>
        >>> However, I believe that for many users, the special cases are not very
        >>> frequent and complex. Might it be possible to create a very simple syntax
        >>> for exporting rules which could be either in those above modules or
        >>> directly within the file written by the user themself?
        >>>
        >>> #+HTML_USER_RULE   \ruby{$1}{$2}, <ruby> $1
        >> <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp>
        >>> <\ruby>
        >>>
        >>> Would like to hear what other think about that.
        >>>
        >>> Greetings
        >>>
        >>> Torsten
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> On 28 May 2013 00:41, T.T.N. <tristan.nakagawa@gmail.com> wrote:
        >>>
        >>>> Hi,
        >>>>
        >>>> So this is my first try to post to the mailing list. I Love Orgmode, you
        >>>> guys are the best!
        >>>>
        >>>> I would like to use orgmode to capture japanese text to later export to
        >>>> latex, html and epub.
        >>>> For japanese symbols, sometimes the pronounciation is put in smaller
        >>>> letters above the symbol to help the reader.
        >>>> These are called ruby in general in typesetting (in japanese, they are
        >>>> also called furigana/yomigana, which I put in the header so not
        >> everybody
        >>>> thinks of the programming language..)
        >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Furigana<
        >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furigana>
        >>>>
        >>>> In Latex, using CJK and ruby packages, This exports ok.
        >>>> (A problem being that japanese text in headers doesn't. But i guess
        >> that's
        >>>> another (and rather Latex, not orgmode-specific) topic.
        >>>>
        >>>> Now, my feature request would be to make the html exporter interpret the
        >>>> latex command
        >>>> \ruby{symbol}{reading}
        >>>> as:
        >>>> <ruby> symbol <rp>(</rp><rt>reading</rt><rp>**)</rp> <\ruby>
        >>>>
        >>>> as suggested here, for parentheses on non-ruby supporting browsers:
        >>>> http://xahlee.info/js/html5_**ruby_tag.html<
        >> http://xahlee.info/js/html5_ruby_tag.html>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> For the org-mode file (you might see some blank squares if you have no
        >>>> japanese support):
        >>>> Here a minimal working example for export:
        >>>>
        >>>> ###
        >>>> #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[CJK, overlap]{ruby}
        >>>> #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{CJK} \end{CJK}
        >>>> #+LATEX \begin{CJK}{UTF8}{min}
        >>>>
        >>>> "\ruby{東}{ひがし}アジア" means east asia in japanese
        >>>> #+LATEX \end{CJK}
        >>>> ###
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> All the best, and keep on rocking my world in plain text! =)
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        > 
        
        ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

      • • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
            2013-05-29 15:20       ` Tristan Nakagawa
          @ 2013-05-29 16:46         ` Christian Moe
            2013-05-29 18:15           ` Suvayu Ali
            2013-05-29 18:13         ` Suvayu Ali
            1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
          From: Christian Moe @ 2013-05-29 16:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
            To: Tristan Nakagawa; +Cc: Org Mode Mailing List
          
          
          Tristan Nakagawa writes:
          
          > Christians suggestion with snippets works great, both for html and pdf
          > via latex; even in section headers.
          > (it took me reading the 8.0 upgrade info to understand we were talking
          > about the <at> symbol, not literally "<at>" in the code.
          
          Hi, glad to hear it worked out. 
          
          Did you see the code as literally "<at>"? I did use the symbol, so this
          must be the work of some overzealous email-address obfuscating
          software. That's useful to know for another time if this comes up on the
          list.
          
          Yours,
          Christian
          
          ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

        • • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
              2013-05-29 16:46         ` Christian Moe
            @ 2013-05-29 18:15           ` Suvayu Ali
              0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
            From: Suvayu Ali @ 2013-05-29 18:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
              To: emacs-orgmode
            
            On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 06:46:59PM +0200, Christian Moe wrote:
            > 
            > Tristan Nakagawa writes:
            > 
            > > Christians suggestion with snippets works great, both for html and pdf
            > > via latex; even in section headers.
            > > (it took me reading the 8.0 upgrade info to understand we were talking
            > > about the <at> symbol, not literally "<at>" in the code.
            > 
            > Hi, glad to hear it worked out. 
            > 
            > Did you see the code as literally "<at>"? I did use the symbol, so this
            > must be the work of some overzealous email-address obfuscating
            > software. That's useful to know for another time if this comes up on the
            > list.
            
            I believe gmane does that.  :-p
            
            -- 
            Suvayu
            
            Open source is the future. It sets us free.
            
            ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

        • * Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby
            2013-05-29 15:20       ` Tristan Nakagawa
            2013-05-29 16:46         ` Christian Moe
          @ 2013-05-29 18:13         ` Suvayu Ali
            1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
          From: Suvayu Ali @ 2013-05-29 18:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
            To: emacs-orgmode
          
          Hello Tristan,
          
          Since you broought up Org versions, I thought it would be pertinent to
          classify the version dependence of the possible solutions.
          
          On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 05:20:21PM +0200, Tristan Nakagawa wrote:
          > 
          > I didn't get Suvayus solution in the old version, i suspect it might
          > work in the new version, but since the snippet version (see below)
          > doesnt involve changing the backend for every macro, i didn't follow up
          > on it
          
          My solution with filters is only possible with Org 8.x or above.  Also a
          minor nit-pick, my solution goes into your emacs setup; the backends
          stay as it is.  But I would say Christian's solution is much more
          elegant and portable in the sense that the Org file is self contained
          and independent of the setup.
          
          > Thomas' ruby link solution works nicely (except the closing tag should
          > be </ruby>, not <\ruby>, and works for both for latex and html.
          >
          > The only downside is that you won't see the symbol in the original
          > orgfile or in section headers in the export, just the reading, but that
          > is a very minor annoyance and this is a very nice elegant solution with
          > a very readable source org file.
          > (I don't guess the link could be redefined to switch reading and symbol
          > around?)
          
          Tom's solution is probably the most portable across different Org
          versions.
          
          > Christians suggestion with snippets works great, both for html and pdf
          > via latex; even in section headers.
          > (it took me reading the 8.0 upgrade info to understand we were talking
          > about the <at> symbol, not literally "<at>" in the code.
          
          This one again is a Org 8.x or above solution.
          
          Hope you can adapt either of these to your needs.
          
          Cheers,
          
          -- 
          Suvayu
          
          Open source is the future. It sets us free.
          
          ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2013-05-29 18:15 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2013-05-27 22:41 [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby T.T.N.
2013-05-28 13:00 ` Torsten Wagner
2013-05-28 15:01   ` Suvayu Ali
2013-05-28 15:27     ` Suvayu Ali
2013-05-28 15:34     ` Thomas S. Dye
2013-05-29  7:20     ` Christian Moe
2013-05-29  7:30       ` Suvayu Ali
2013-05-28 15:43   ` Tristan Nakagawa
2013-05-28 17:36     ` Torsten Wagner
2013-05-29 15:20       ` Tristan Nakagawa
2013-05-29 16:46         ` Christian Moe
2013-05-29 18:15           ` Suvayu Ali
2013-05-29 18:13         ` Suvayu Ali

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