Todo state for [un]ordered list items?

Todo state for [un]ordered list items?

[John Hendy]

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When I take notes at work, I tend to like to minimize my headlines and use
list items instead. Part of this is simply due to how things look when
exported. To use headlines for everything looks peculiar to me, at least
under the default settings anyway. So... my typical work org-file is like
so:

* Projects
** Project 1
*** History/Overview
*** Journals
**** <2010-03-27 Sat>
***** Main thing I did 1
- did stuff
- did some more stuff
  - some sub stuff
** Project 2
* Talks/Courses
* Ideas

Most likely I'll have one heading under the timestemp shown for each
activity for that project that day and the rest will be hyphen lists. My
problem is that I can't make any of the unordered list items todos -- it
just makes the headline a todo. I'm already at 5 headlines deep and really
don't want to make headlines just for a todo that has it's place in my
bulleted notes.

My questions are:
- Does anyone else find the idea of an unordered todo helpful, but one
that's not part of a headline?
- If so, how could it be implemented?
- If not, I'm absolutely game to hear alternative work flows and how others
manage without this feature at present!
--- So far, I've just been making the headline a TODO and then putting in a
[/] at the top; unordered list items that are todos also have a [ ] which is
tracked by the top level todo.
- Bonus: if this is the best (headline = todo and unordered lists are check
boxes), how can I implement a shortcut to toggle the 'todo checkbox' state
for unordered list items? It would be awesome to have a C-c C-t equivalent
for sub-items such that they were given a checkbox!


Many thanks,
John

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Re: Todo state for [un]ordered list items?

[Memnon Anon]

John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:

> * Projects
> ** Project 1
> *** History/Overview
> *** Journals
> **** <2010-03-27 Sat>
> ***** Main thing I did 1
> - did stuff
> - did some more stuff
>   - some sub stuff
> ** Project 2
> * Talks/Courses
> * Ideas
>
> Most likely I'll have one heading under the timestemp shown for each
> activity for that project that day and the rest will be hyphen lists.
> My problem is that I can't make any of the unordered list items todos
> -- it just makes the headline a todo. I'm already at 5 headlines deep
> and really don't want to make headlines just for a todo that has it's
> place in my bulleted notes.

First, I would suggest a different organisation. You are 5 headlines
deep, because you chose this kind of setup, but with some tweaking, you
could avoid this:
      a) Give each Project an own file.
      b) Don't give dates a headline.
So, you would have a file like this:

* Project 1
** History/Overview
** Journals
*** DONE Main thing I did 1
<2010-03-27 Sat>
*** TODO Stuff 2
*** TODO Stuff 3

If you want to review what you did on a specific day, use the agenda for
this. For "substuff", if it is really not worth a separate task, there
are lists.

> - If not, I'm absolutely game to hear alternative work flows and how
> others manage without this feature at present!
> --- So far, I've just been making the headline a TODO and then putting
> in a [/] at the top; unordered list items that are todos also have a [
> ] which is tracked by the top level todo. - Bonus: if this is the best
> (headline = todo and unordered lists are check boxes), how can I
> implement a shortcut to toggle the 'todo checkbox' state for unordered
> list items? It would be awesome to have a C-c C-t equivalent for
> sub-items such that they were given a checkbox!

I do not understand, did you miss this: 
,----[ (info "(org)The very busy C-c C-c key") ]
|    - If the cursor is in a plain list item with a checkbox, toggle the
|      status of the checkbox.
`----

To make a checkbox without typing "[ ]", use C-c C-x C-b:
,----[ (info "(org)Checkboxes") ]
| `C-c C-x C-b'
|      Toggle checkbox status or (with prefix arg) checkbox presence at
|      point.  With double prefix argument, set it to `[-]', which is
|      considered to be an intermediate state.
|         - If there is an active region, toggle the first checkbox in
|           the region and set all remaining boxes to the same status as
|           the first.  With a prefix arg, add or remove the checkbox for
|           all items in the region.
| 
|         - If the cursor is in a headline, toggle checkboxes in the
|           region between this headline and the next (so _not_ the
|           entire subtree).
| 
|         - If there is no active region, just toggle the checkbox at
|           point.
`----

If you need this very often, you may want to bind this to an easier
keycombo.

Did this help so far?

memnon

Re: Re: Todo state for [un]ordered list items?

[John Hendy]

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On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Memnon Anon <
gegendosenfleisch@googlemail.com> wrote:

> John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes
>
> * Projects
> > ** Project 1
> > *** History/Overview
> > *** Journals
> > **** <2010-03-27 Sat>
> > ***** Main thing I did 1
> > - did stuff
>

--snip--

First, I would suggest a different organisation. You are 5 headlines
> deep, because you chose this kind of setup, but with some tweaking, you
> could avoid this:
>      a) Give each Project an own file.
>      b) Don't give dates a headline.
> So, you would have a file like this:
>
> * Project 1
> ** History/Overview
> ** Journals
> *** DONE Main thing I did 1
> <2010-03-27 Sat>
> *** TODO Stuff 2
> *** TODO Stuff 3
>
>
I started this way (pro1.org, pro2.org, etc.) but found changing buffers
constantly to be annoying. I much prefer them all in one place now, but am
still open to changing that! I can see advantages to the
one-file-per-project idea. For instance I just wrote up a paper at home and
exporting to html/latex was far easier since it had the whole file to play
in. I would have had a harder time getting just my paper out of a whole '
personal.org' file...

Followup/claification:
- what are your pro/cons for why you go one file per project vs. a big file?
I know different people have different opinions on this. I believe Carsten
said in at least one of his main talks on org-mode that he has on big one as
does Sacha Chua who I emailed with a little and uses org-mode a ton.
- The journals are not always todos. Sometimes they are just notes, but need
a time stamp anyway. I can see your point of doing it that way. I burn a
headline level just on the time stamp.
- My main purpose of the time stamps is that I need to print my status and
then double side tape it into an intellectual property notebook. I think I
can do this with agenda.

Side note: I wonder about putting one file vs. many files in this new
'beginner tutorial' to help new people choose a set up when first starting?
Might be cool. Not to say one is better, but to at least offer what I'm
looking for: experience users' input as to what is benefited from one style
vs. the other and what functionality is gained/lost/tougher.



> If you want to review what you did on a specific day, use the agenda for
> this. For "substuff", if it is really not worth a separate task, there
> are lists.
>

I will look into agenda more. Have not explored it's functionality much yet.
Been on org-mode for about 2 weeks!


> > - If not, I'm absolutely game to hear alternative work flows and how
> > others manage without this feature at present!
> > --- So far, I've just been making the headline a TODO and then putting
> > in a [/] at the top; unordered list items that are todos also have a [
> > ] which is tracked by the top level todo. - Bonus: if this is the best
> > (headline = todo and unordered lists are check boxes), how can I
> > implement a shortcut to toggle the 'todo checkbox' state for unordered
> > list items? It would be awesome to have a C-c C-t equivalent for
> > sub-items such that they were given a checkbox!
>
> I do not understand, did you miss this:
> ,----[ (info "(org)The very busy C-c C-c key") ]
> |    - If the cursor is in a plain list item with a checkbox, toggle the
> |      status of the checkbox.
> `----
>

Sorry, this is not what I meant. You answered my 'state' question in your
next point with C-c C-x C-b. I know how to toggle the checkbox 'state'... I
meant to toggle the state of having a checkbox... period, aka go from
- item 1
to
- [ ] item 1


> To make a checkbox without typing "[ ]", use C-c C-x C-b:
> ,----[ (info "(org)Checkboxes") ]
> | `C-c C-x C-b'
> |      Toggle checkbox status or (with prefix arg) checkbox presence at
> |      point.  With double prefix argument, set it to `[-]', which is
> |      considered to be an intermediate state.
> |         - If there is an active region, toggle the first checkbox in
> |           the region and set all remaining boxes to the same status as
> |           the first.  With a prefix arg, add or remove the checkbox for
> |           all items in the region.
> |
> |         - If the cursor is in a headline, toggle checkboxes in the
> |           region between this headline and the next (so _not_ the
> |           entire subtree).
> |
> |         - If there is no active region, just toggle the checkbox at
> |           point.
> `----
>
>
This is what I was looking for. Dumb that I missed it. In my skimming, only
the 'toggle checkbox status' descriptions were popping out to me so it
seemed to be for something of a tree-level C-c C-c vs. what it actually
does. Even after re-reading it, though, it seems confusing:
- I don't get what a '[double] prefix arg' is. C-c C-x C-b does indeed, add
a check box to an unordered list item no matter where I am on the line, but
according to this, since I'm not providing a prefix argument (with C-u,
right?), it should only toggle the status? But there is no 'status' so it
adds?
- How do I get the box to go away if I don't want it anymore?


> If you need this very often, you may want to bind this to an easier
> keycombo.
>
> Did this help so far?
>
> memnon
>


P.S. Somewhat un-related, but while taking about lists... In an unordered
list like this (my todo list for today)

* TODO [0/4] <2010-03-27 Sat>
 - floors
   - [ ] sweep or vacuum all hardwood
   - [ ] wash all hardwood
   - [ ] wash hardwood floors
   - [ ] wash kitchen floor
 - [ ] send envelopes via post office
 - [ ] vacuum back stairs and hallway

If I have either
- floors
or
- [/] floors
then

* TODO says [0/4] (it's only counting the sub-items under floors). If I have
- [ ] floors then TODOS says [0/3] (it's counting the highest level items:
floors, send, and vacuum)

Aren't
 - [ ] send envelopes via post office
 - [ ] vacuum back stairs and hallway

Still under the todo headline whether -floors is a checkbox or not?
Shouldn't they be counted? Based on the example here (
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/org/Checkboxes.html), I
should get the behavior I expect. In fact, when yanking it into my file, I
get this instead of what's shown on the tutorial page:

* TODO Organize party [1/3] (instead of [3/6]
  - call people [1/3]
    - [ ] Peter
    - [X] Sarah
    - [ ] Sam
  - [X] order food
  - [ ] think about what music to play
  - [X] talk to the neighbors


Bug or something in .emacs that I'm unaware of?

Sincere thanks,
John



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Checkbox Statistics (was: Todo state for [un]ordered list items?)

[Memnon Anon]

Hi, 

btw, it is easier to keep multiple questions in separate mails with
separate subjects.
Thus, more people will read and answer (easier to identify the topic,
shorter so quicker to skim over etc.). 

John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:
> P.S. Somewhat un-related, but while taking about lists... In an
> unordered list like this (my todo list for today)
[...]
> Still under the todo headline whether -floors is a checkbox or not?
> Shouldn't they be counted? Based on the example here (
> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/org/Checkboxes.html),
> I should get the behavior I expect. In fact, when yanking it into my
> file, I get this instead of what's shown on the tutorial page:
>
> * TODO Organize party [1/3] (instead of [3/6]
>   - call people [1/3]
>     - [ ] Peter
>     - [X] Sarah
>     - [ ] Sam
>   - [X] order food
>   - [ ] think about what music to play
>   - [X] talk to the neighbors
>
> Bug or something in .emacs that I'm unaware of?

This is not the current example:
,----[ (info "(org)Checkboxes") ]
|      * TODO Organize party [2/4]
|        - [-] call people [1/3]
|          - [ ] Peter
|          - [X] Sarah
|          - [ ] Sam
|        - [X] order food
|        - [ ] think about what music to play
|        - [X] talk to the neighbors
`----

See the [-] cookie? Always use the documentation provided for your
version! Orgmode is a moving quickly.

Using C-h a org checkbox, I found this var:

,----[ (info "(dir)Top") ]
| org-hierarchical-checkbox-statistics is a variable defined in `org-list.el'.
| 
| Documentation:
| Non-nil means, checkbox statistics counts only the state of direct children.
| When nil, all boxes below the cookie are counted.
| This can be set to nil on a per-node basis using a COOKIE_DATA property
| with the word "recursive" in the value.
`----
and in the manual
,----[ (info "(org)Checkboxes") ]
|    (1) Set the variable `org-hierarchical-checkbox-statistics' if you
| want such cookies to represent the all checkboxes below the cookie, not
| just the direct children.
`----

So, for general behaviour, use
(setq org-hierarchical-checkbox-statistics nil)

On a file-wide basis, add something like:
#+PROPERTY: COOKIE_DATA recursive

On a per-headline basis, use
* Task [/]  
  :PROPERTIES:
  :COOKIE_DATA: recursive
  :END:

I do not use checkboxes, but that should do. 

#+PROPERTY: COOKIE_DATA recursive checkbox
* TODO Organize party [2/7]
  :PROPERTIES:
  :COOKIE_DATA: recursive checkbox
  :END:
- [-] call people [1/2]
  - [ ] Peter
  - [X] Sarah
- [ ] Sam
- [X] order food
- [ ] think about what music to play
- [ ] talk to the neighbors

Problem solved ;)

Memnon